pureTsexy said:

I can't get Princevault to open right now. I just want to verify the 38 studio albums thing.

Shadows in the Night is apparently Dylan's 36th studio album. It's fantastic. Non-Dylan fans wouldn't care for it though.

KingSausage said:

In commenting on HITNRUN, a lot of Orgers are saying things like "it's great that Prince sounds so fresh and is challenging himself when he's 57. What other artist has done that?"

I find this amusing. HITNRUN isn't "fresh and challenging." HITNRUN is "fuck it. I give up. here it is, whatever."

TrevorAyer said:

McD said:

What are you breaking to me exactly?

All I can see is that Prince needs collaborators? Having them and needing them are two different things. Has anyone (with decent production values) ever come across as needing them less than Prince in rock history? Is there a single anecdote from someone suggesting that he can't really cut it (as a songwriter / producer / guitarist blah blah).

And you're telling me Dylan on accoustic is the one true artist? Yeah, Dylan was never chased for stealing work back in them days. Nor are a few of his contemporaries back then still publicly calling him on it. You've got me there.

P def NEEDS collaborators ... My point was more to those who put prince above all others as tho he did it all on his own .. When the truth is that others have done more on their own far moreso than prince ever has .. When has prince ever had a hit with a song and just a guitar? Never ... When has he toured with just himself and a guitar .. Never .. So my effort is to end the belittlement of others talents when compring to prince ..

Pure rubbish. It's like saying "Ingmar Bergman could do a movie with just three actors in black and white so he's way better than Bertolucci who uses all those colours and actors. " Hey I think Bergman is the better filmmaker but the economy of colours is not proof that he's better.

C'mon, the last rally good Bowie in studio was in 1981.
And I still listen everything he does.

A Brief History of Being Prince

Did someone post this already? A fun read, not sure if it's 100% accurate but the story about the 3121 house cracked me up.

It's not as bad as knowing what Perry sounds like.

I'll stick to listening to her dad, Lee 'Scratch' Perry.

NouveauDance said:

I think it's pathetic when anyone with his level of talent and stature tries to sound like Kary Perry.

BmoreJazz said:

I think Bowie's classic era stretched to 1980's Scary Monsters, but he has had some very strong albums since then. Let's Dance is excellent pop music. Buddha of Suburbia and Outside are great. And The Next Day is fantastic. I'll take those albums over anything Prince has done since TRC.

databank said:

MoBettaBliss said:

but this isn't about the stones... it's about prince... someone with an incredibly diverse body of work

do i need to give examples?

yes a lot of his music is funk/r&b based... a lot isn't

and who cares anyway?... just because someone likes bob dylan (or any of the other people mentioned) doesn't mean they can't be passionate about 'black' music?.... how dumb

i listen to stuff from zeppelin to chopin... my favourite recent album is black messiah

you're putting people in boxes based on your own narrow minded view of music

it's moronic

So be it.

I've been lurking for years though I've been a fan since I was a child. I do think this is a very narrow way to approach music.

I like Springsteen/U2/Paul Simon/Stones/McCartney for the same reason I like Prince/Stevie/Marvin/MJ/Earth, Wind And Fire or the same way I like a whole lot of other artists who fall into different genres and eras.... I like music that sounds good to my ears and makes me feel something. Music lovers should have an open mind and be able to enjoy multiple genres of music and different artists from different eras. Being stuck with only one genre of music to listen to for the rest of my life would bore the hell out of me. I see no reason why someone cannot appreciate both what Prince and Bruce does. They are not in direct competition with each other and both are great at what they do. Some people like music because they like music, and not just like one genre and close off to anything that isn't in the same box.

And you hate Kate Bush? Prince loves her and has worked with her more than once... Big Boi loves her and cites her as a hero, Maxwell had one of his biggest hits with a cover of one of her songs. So really, what the hell? I think she has enough respect in the urban world to not receive the ire given to "white crap"

[Edited 9/12/15 14:00pm]

nf0603 said:

Although I agree with your sentiments, it is very irritating reading all the knee jerk reaction on this site when Prince does not represent the "classic" conservative ideal of the Rock singer songwriter. And there is a race and generational divide when people automatically bash hip hop, R&B, dance music or any other idiom that is Black music. It is especially disingenuous considering all the blatant theft by the likes of Bowie, Stones and Beatles of Black music.

And we can both agree that Prince is an amazing hybrid of many popular musical styles with a genius musical vocabulary.

jdcxc said:

nf0603 said:

I've been lurking for years though I've been a fan since I was a child. I do think this is a very narrow way to approach music.

I like Springsteen/U2/Paul Simon/Stones/McCartney for the same reason I like Prince/Stevie/Marvin/MJ/Earth, Wind And Fire or the same way I like a whole lot of other artists who fall into different genres and eras.... I like music that sounds good to my ears and makes me feel something. Music lovers should have an open mind and be able to enjoy multiple genres of music and different artists from different eras. Being stuck with only one genre of music to listen to for the rest of my life would bore the hell out of me. I see no reason why someone cannot appreciate both what Prince and Bruce does. They are not in direct competition with each other and both are great at what they do. Some people like music because they like music, and not just like one genre and close off to anything that isn't in the same box.

And you hate Kate Bush? Prince loves her and has worked with her more than once... Big Boi loves her and cites her as a hero, Maxwell had one of his biggest hits with a cover of one of her songs. So really, what the hell? I think she has enough respect in the urban world to not receive the ire given to "white crap"

[Edited 9/12/15 14:00pm]

Although I agree with your sentiments, it is very irritating reading all the knee jerk reaction on this site when Prince does not represent the "classic" conservative ideal of the Rock singer songwriter. And there is a race and generational divide when people automatically bash hip hop, R&B, dance music or any other idiom that is Black music. It is especially disingenuous considering all the blatant theft by the likes of Bowie, Stones and Beatles of Black music. And we can both agree that Prince is an amazing hybrid of many popular musical styles with a genius musical vocabulary.

Well. I know Bowie has always been very open about his influences. He has worn his love for black music on his sleeve, and even really helped Luther Vandross in the 70s IMO. Same with the Stones, they've always been very blunt that they wouldn't exist without black musicians paving the way for them. I think there's a difference with acts like those compared to someone like Elvis (who I don't hate as much as some do, but he is overrated) or Led Zeppelin (a great band, but they stole from black artists and have been taken to court more than once for their theft). I feel different between acts who stress their influences vs. those who take from others and pass it off as their own... this was Lady Gaga's downfall, she copied Madonna, Grace Jones, Bowie, Jackson, etc... and sold it as "original" to a generation of millennials who didn't know better.

I am 36, so I was a kid in Prince's heyday though he, Michael Jackson and some others were the ones who weened me onto music when I was little. I never understood why there's such a musical divide because IMO there is some amazing music being made in multiple genres. For modern music, I am predominantly a fan of stuff that falls under the alternative banner and actually in recent years there has been a LOT of black artists out there who are into that banner and being embraced by that audience [FKA twigs, Janelle Monae, TV On The Radio, Alabama Shakes, Toro y Moi, Benjamin Booker, Gary Clark Jr, Lianna La Havas, Benjamin Booker, Carolina Chocolate Drops/Rhiannon Giddens, Bloc Party, Phox, Twin Shadow, Johnnyswim. Santigold, etc..] that it's almost no issue IMO. The station I predominantly listen to that supports artists like those plays a good smattering of Prince as well. I'm of the school that I'll listen to it if I think it sounds good.

I don't think one needs to have an unhealthy allegiance to strictly white music and white artists to not like Prince embracing cliche EDM sounds that were worn out years ago.

KingSausage said:

In commenting on HITNRUN, a lot of Orgers are saying things like "it's great that Prince sounds so fresh and is challenging himself when he's 57. What other artist has done that?" Let's compare Prince and HITNRUN to what other major artists were doing at that age, or as close to 57 as possible. Dylan: Time Out of Mind (1997). This album smokes the shit out of HITNRUN. Stones: Bridges to Babylon (1997). Pretty weak. But stronger than HITNRUN, especially the Keith songs. Bowie: Reality (2003). No contest. Reality is a great album. Springsteen: Magic (2007). Again, no contest. Magic has some fantastic songs. Stevie: A Time 2 Love (2005?). I don't think this is a great album, but it's much better than HITNRUN. Any others?

....but then rate those albums in the context of each artists overall career? I'm not a fan of Dylan or Bowie but I'm pretty confident in discussing the others and none of the albums mentioned are in the same league as what any of them had released, say, 30 years earlier.

KingSausage said:

I don't think one needs to have an unhealthy allegiance to strictly white music and white artists to not like Prince embracing cliche EDM sounds that were worn out years ago.

...that'll be the EDM (meaningless fucking term that it is!) sounds that were majorly influenced by the works of, ....erm, Prince?

jdcxc said:

Although I agree with your sentiments, it is very irritating reading all the knee jerk reaction on this site when Prince does not represent the "classic" conservative ideal of the Rock singer songwriter. And there is a race and generational divide when people automatically bash hip hop, R&B, dance music or any other idiom that is Black music. It is especially disingenuous considering all the blatant theft by the likes of Bowie, Stones and Beatles of Black music.

exactly....and I'd through sexuality into that mix as well.

Honestly, I think half of the folk here must have have been burning disco records in the late 70s!

[Edited 9/12/15 17:13pm]

hw3004 said:

Well, then it would be cool if he introduced NEW sounds in EDM/electropop, rather than sound like a second-rate artist from 2006.

hw3004 said:

I agree.

hw3004 said:

KingSausage said:

In commenting on HITNRUN, a lot of Orgers are saying things like "it's great that Prince sounds so fresh and is challenging himself when he's 57. What other artist has done that?" Let's compare Prince and HITNRUN to what other major artists were doing at that age, or as close to 57 as possible. Dylan: Time Out of Mind (1997). This album smokes the shit out of HITNRUN. Stones: Bridges to Babylon (1997). Pretty weak. But stronger than HITNRUN, especially the Keith songs. Bowie: Reality (2003). No contest. Reality is a great album. Springsteen: Magic (2007). Again, no contest. Magic has some fantastic songs. Stevie: A Time 2 Love (2005?). I don't think this is a great album, but it's much better than HITNRUN. Any others?

....but then rate those albums in the context of each artists overall career? I'm not a fan of Dylan or Bowie but I'm pretty confident in discussing the others and none of the albums mentioned are in the same league as what any of them had released, say, 30 years earlier.

The Bowie album isn't one of his best though I like it. But I think Time Out Of Mind is certainly a latter day Dylan classic. The album won him Grammys, got critics back on his jock after many years of thinking his day was behind him, and at least gave him one latter day standard with "To Make You Feel My Love" which Adele had a big hit with, and also resurrected his commercial standings after a long drought of mid-charting albums. Every album since Time Out Of Mind has gone top 5 when Dylan hadn't scored a top 30 studio album prior to TOOM since 1983. Probably a gold standard measure for 55+ year old artists three decades plus deep into their career and it totally re-energized Dylan's commercial fortunes and critical standing after a long drought of poorly received albums.

[Edited 9/12/15 19:37pm]

nf0603 said:

But I think Time Out Of Mind is certainly a latter day Dylan classic.

[Edited 9/12/15 19:37pm]

Fair enough, but, if you could only save one Dylan album in a fire, would it be this or, say, Blonde On Blonde?

AhPook said:

LittlePurpleYoda said:

The original post asks a perfectly valid question - respected artists at the same point in their careers & what their creative output looks like at roughly the same period? That's not bashing. You're free to agree or disagree. While I think the McCartney album I mentioned is vastly superior to HitnRun, as has been much of Paul's output over the last several years to anything Prince has released & Bowie's Reality CD beats it easily, I actually think the Stones' Bridges to Babylon, even if it is by-the-numbers Stones, is still better than Prince by the numbers. Yes, in Flip The Switch it had the obligatory 3 word song title (see previous Start Me Up, Sparks Will Fly, etc.), but Out of Control & Saint of Me are good late period tracks, rock pretty hard live & Anybody Seen My Baby was an interesting video. The album did feature their silly venture into rap, however.

What's wrong with making a comparison? And frankly, who cares what someone else would or wouldn't go near? It should be obvious that we're all here for different reasons - personally, I think Prince's best work is long behind him, but I still hope I might hear something interesting & that one day the vault might open. And we all are interested in other artists - databank & I might both like Prince, but I couldn't give a rat's ass that he doesn't like Paul McCartney.

I really don't think it's a matter of which is better or worse. Those albums are great because they are mature works by mature artists making music for grownups. Masters at the top of their game who've given up trying to top the charts. Madonna and Prince are still trying to reach the teenagers. There's something inauthentic about that. The music may be good (I like HNR), but it just feels off, like an emeritus History professor in yoga pants.

Teenagers are people too!

The Stones are an interesting comparison here, given one of Keith's gripes against Mick appears to be Jagger's desire / (need?) to work with "contemporary" producers.

Also, arguably Madonna is the most "pop" of any act mentioned, and "pop" is perceived to be for teenagers (which is a lot of bollocks, in my opinion) so we're criticising Madonna for being Madonna here?