KingSausage said:

LittlePurpleYoda said:

Genesia said:

AhPook said:

Since we're talking primarily about 80s artists, John mellencamp (believe it or not) put out a good record at 57: Life, Death, Love, Freedom. Like the others it's mature and deals with themes of age and mortality. T-Bone Burnett produced it.

Ahhhhh...and there we have it. The Place That Prince Cannot Go. Because that would require self-reflection and honesty and dropping his "time is a trick" mantle. He'd actually have to be *gasp* human.

And so we get HITNRUN instead.

[Edited 9/9/15 10:31am]

So there is no humanity in a song like "June" or "Way back home" or "Time"? After all this time don't we know that prince can be both reflective and silly. The party boy and also thoughtful? The greatest thing about prince is that he not easily defined.

warning2all said:

LittlePurpleYoda said:

Paul McCartney - Flaming Pie (1997ish)? Pretty strong work which, like HitnRun, referenced his past, albeit more skillfully, & McCartney has had a number of equally interesting releases since.

[Edited 9/9/15 5:19am]

Excellent pick! This was going to be my response--then I saw you beat me to it! I also thought his "Chaos & Creation in the Backyard" was strong with unusual melodies. Worth a listen. My issue with Prince is releasing disposable junk at 57 when he could be releasing top shelf Vault tracks at 57. He has enough good tracks to release quality albums for the rest of his life, but he foists "Mr.Nelson", "Mr. Goodnight", "Life o the Party", "Like A Mack" at the expense of packaging "All My Dreams", "Wonderful Ass", or "Computer Blue Extended". Boggles the mind.

What's disposible to u is enjoyable to others. Prince is a living breathing musician always looking for next thing to do. There will always be time for those vault items to come to light even if u and i and prince have moved on to the next plane of existence (if there is one).

tricky99 said:

Genesia said:

Ahhhhh...and there we have it. The Place That Prince Cannot Go. Because that would require self-reflection and honesty and dropping his "time is a trick" mantle. He'd actually have to be *gasp* human.

And so we get HITNRUN instead.

[Edited 9/9/15 10:31am]

So there is no humanity in a song like "June" or "Way back home" or "Time"? After all this time don't we know that prince can be both reflective and silly. The party boy and also thoughtful? The greatest thing about prince is that he not easily defined.

He does it, but it's fleeting. I absolutely, unreservedly love "Way Back Home." I think it's one of his best songs in recent memory. And I love the wistfulness of "Somewhere Here On Earth." Unfortunately, you usually have to swim through a lot of crap to get to the gems. It's like he's trying to hide them.

Other times, his own hubris gets the better of him. Take (for example) "The Dance." The uncertainty and vulnerability that were a huge part of that song's charm (for me, anyway) got totally beaten out of it in the 3121 version - probably because he wrote it for Manuela and he decided to give it the "Wally" treatment when she left him.

[Edited 9/9/15 12:08pm]

NorthC said:

KingSausage said:

Dylan has been recording all the time since he started. There are massive amounts of Dylan bootlegs, not limited to his amazing Bootleg Series collections.

There was no Dylan album with original songs between 1990 and 1997.

Dylan still recorded. I know they weren't original tunes. But they were still recordings, and our discussion has not specified original up to this point.

KingSausage said:

Genesia said:

tricky99 said:

So there is no humanity in a song like "June" or "Way back home" or "Time"? After all this time don't we know that prince can be both reflective and silly. The party boy and also thoughtful? The greatest thing about prince is that he not easily defined.

He does it, but it's fleeting. I absolutely, unreservedly love "Way Back Home." I think it's one of his best songs in recent memory. And I love the wistfulness of "Somewhere Here On Earth." Unfortunately, you usually have to swim through a lot of crap to get to the gems. It's like he's trying to hide them.

Other times, his own hubris gets the better of him. Take (for example) "The Dance." The uncertainty and vulnerability that were a huge part of that song's charm (for me, anyway) got totally beaten out of it in the 3121 version - probably because he wrote it for Manuela and he decided to give it the "Wally" treatment when she left him.

[Edited 9/9/15 12:08pm]

I think the dance is still very sweet. We were just privy to a more demo version. You have a certain prince u like most (the reflective prince). Who want to dispose with the rest. Which means you have certain musical peferences even though you claim to be open to everything.

See i value something like "ol school company" as much as "Time".

tricky99 said:

Genesia said:

He does it, but it's fleeting. I absolutely, unreservedly love "Way Back Home." I think it's one of his best songs in recent memory. And I love the wistfulness of "Somewhere Here On Earth." Unfortunately, you usually have to swim through a lot of crap to get to the gems. It's like he's trying to hide them.

Other times, his own hubris gets the better of him. Take (for example) "The Dance." The uncertainty and vulnerability that were a huge part of that song's charm (for me, anyway) got totally beaten out of it in the 3121 version - probably because he wrote it for Manuela and he decided to give it the "Wally" treatment when she left him.

I think the dance is still very sweet. We were just privy to a more demo version. You have a certain prince u like most (the reflective prince). Who want to dispose with the rest. Which means you have certain musical peferences even though you claim to be open to everything.

See i value something like "ol school company" as much as "Time".

OMG - this place is turning into Inference Central.



People started talking about "reflective Prince," so I started talking about "reflective Prince." It doesn't necessarily mean I prefer that or that I want to "dispose of the rest"! The proper take-away from what I've said is that I would like to see a little more reflection from him because when he does it, it feels true and authentic and amazing - not that that's what I prefer all the time. If anything, I'm a bigger fan of his rock and blues stuff.

I can't figure out if there's a language barrier here or if people really are that literal.

Oh - and the 3121 version of "The Dance" isn't sweet. It's angry and bitter and full of butt hurtness. Which is fine - but it certainly isn't how that song started out.

[Edited 9/9/15 12:34pm]

In answer to the original spirit of the question asked.... Sting was 57 in 2008.

Around that time he did:

Songs from the Labyrinth (2006)

If on a Winter's Night... (2009)

and of course there was the amazing Police reunion and world tour in 2007.

In 2015 he's still pushing his personal boundaries with the sucess of his Broadway Musical.

Genesia said:

KingSausage said:

Genesia said:

OMG - this place is turning into Inference Central.



People started talking about "reflective Prince," so I started talking about "reflective Prince." It doesn't necessarily mean I prefer that or that I want to "dispose of the rest"! The proper take-away from what I've said is that I would like to see a little more reflection from him because when he does it, it feels true and authentic and amazing - not that that's what I prefer all the time. If anything, I'm a bigger fan of his rock and blues stuff.

I can't figure out if there's a language barrier here or if people really are that literal.

Oh - and the 3121 version of "The Dance" isn't sweet. It's angry and bitter and full of butt hurtness. Which is fine - but it certainly isn't how that song started out.

What's your fucking problem with reflective Prince?

Right?!

Eros Ramazzotti is 52 in October.

He just gets better with age and each album released is a major event and never disappoints.

He recently released his 13th studio album, so hopefull by age 57 he'll be on album 16.

Genesia said:

Funkyalien said:

There's two sides to every Prince story.

Yes, the introspective, self-reflective prince albums died a quiet death with the rainbow children, because most prince fans did not like the record at that time, which I found weird. It was about what he was feeling at that time, and the music was great. Prince probably felt slighted and made a promise to himself never to bare his soul again.

But then again, AOA had 'way back home', and 'time', which do deal with so-called mature themes of age and mortality.

I think we tend to overanalyse. Prince has done this in the 90s too, chased trendy sounds and caused us heartache. That's what he does, I think, without the revolution.

Also, the Prince of the past belonged to all races, all colours, all creeds, all castes. He was a truly universal musical icon. Now all he talks about is black power and repressed anger, which has IMO taken the gloss off his amazing 80s image of being a global pop culture hero.

And I absolutely love those moments (probably because I relate strongly to them, myself). He also had a line in Lion of Judah that I thought was very poignant (paraphrasing here), "I'm probably past my expiration date, but still I adore you." I didn't care for the song (or Planet Earth, the album) as a whole, but that moment really touched me. He's great when he's willing to go there.

I agree, and this brings us to a really disturbing topic. without the revolution, he's a good r and b and funk pop star. with them, he discovered the craft of encompassing influences beyond black, and that improved his lyrics and songwriting. in the end, prince isn't about the light jazz noodlings. he's about the songwriting.

When Clare Fischer was 57, he did the strings for Parade and The Family.

databank said:

Just one thing, reading this thread I realize I understand better why there's so much disgust for P's music after 1995 on this forum.

.

I read those names so often here: Bowie, Dylan, Springsteen, McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Kate Bush and even now Neil Diamond and Pixies...

.

I mean seriously? On a Prince forum?

fuck me... how narrow minded can you get

you know who'd find where you're going with that utterly ridiculous?... prince

MoBettaBliss said:

databank said:

Just one thing, reading this thread I realize I understand better why there's so much disgust for P's music after 1995 on this forum.

.

I read those names so often here: Bowie, Dylan, Springsteen, McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Kate Bush and even now Neil Diamond and Pixies...

.

I mean seriously? On a Prince forum?

fuck me... how narrow minded can you get

you know who'd find where you're going with that utterly ridiculous?... prince

databank does think MPLS Sound is GREAT though...

KingSausage said:

alandail said:

This is a really odd thread.

The thread title suggests you're comparing Prince to all other artists at age 57, but the reality is you only want to compare him to ones you think put out a better album than HitNRun specifically at age 57. I haven't listened to HITNRUN yet because I don't have Tidal yet, but I thought AOA was fantastic. How many of the artists you just listed were releasing their 3rd studio album in 12 months. How many of them were releasing a new song every week as Prince plans? How many of them are even capable of doing all of that at age 57. I also hate it when people say someone else is too old to do something. Nobody tells Steven Speilberg that he should stop trying to make popular movies at age 68, instead they flock to Jurrasic World. Why should anyone tell Prince to stop trying to make popular music because of his age? Instead of complaing, I'm glad Prince is still so prolific. My dad was a huge Elvis fan, he died at age 42. I am also a huge Bee Gees fan, they stopped making music when Maurice Gibb died at age 53 and their rate of releasing new albums diminished prior to that. Prince's biggest rival from the 80s, Michael Jackson, died at age 50.

Did you miss when I asked other people for their comparisons? What was I supposed to do, mention every single artist that released an album around age 57? WTF. Also, Prince "plans" to release a new song every week. Um, right. First of all, we all know how Prince's "plans" often go. Second, is Stare a new song? That's weird. I've had it for weeks now.

You set it up for comparisons to the very small set of things the poster considers better. What about all of the artist who had worse and/or no output. All you are showing is there are very few artists who did something worth comparing Prince to and may not be using the best of his recent output to make that comparison.

As for the new song a week, we'll have to see how that plays out. Stare is a recently new song. The new video is a new song too.

Also, I'm not sure if it was you or others saying things to the effect "prince shouldn't try to do X at age 57". I just hate puting artificial limits like that on people.

[Edited 9/9/15 14:07pm]

Genesia said:

When Clare Fischer was 57, he did the strings for Parade and The Family.

That is really cool and very interesting to know. Cheers.

alandail said:

Paul McCartney released Run Devil Run at age 57. It was his 11th solo album. Mostly covers but with some new songs too. Including albums with The Beatles and Wings, at age 57 that was roughly 25 albums into a stellar career.

16 years later (and 5 more albums later) he's 73 and still going strong. He also does side projects with The Fireman.

Now -- having said all that, and taking my "fandom" off the table for a second: was everything he did mind-blowing, genre-busting, boundary-pushing masterpieces? Of course not. Did a lot of it pale in comparison to The Beatles (see comparison here to Prince and The Revolution)? Yes, quite a bit of it paled in comparison. Did he sometimes repeat himself or draw upon familiar sounds (see another comparison point here)? Yes, Paul did. Final question: was 90+% of it enjoyable? Absolutely.

Paul McCartney and Prince couldn't be farther apart, but there are some similarities and some very distinct differences.

Now - I will concede that, like Prince, the media fawns over Paul McCartney. It's not quite Emperor's New Clothes territory (like it is with Prince), but Paul does get a bit more respect just by way of being Paul McCartney. Difference is, usually with his music it's still pretty great.

^^ Someone more versed with McCartney can check my numbers. I might've missed a few with the quick reply (I don't own them all, yet).

KingSausage said:

alandail said:

You set it up for comparisons to the very small set of things the poster considers better. What about all of the artist who had worse and/or no output. All you are showing is there are very few artists who did something worth comparing Prince to and may not be using the best of his recent output to make that comparison.

As for the new song a week, we'll have to see how that plays out. Stare is a recently new song. The new video is a new song too.

Also, I'm not sure if it was you or others saying things to the effect "prince shouldn't try to do X at age 57". I just hate puting artificial limits like that on people.

[Edited 9/9/15 14:07pm]

I would love to get input and examples of artists with worse output at 57. If I could put this in a big fucking neon sign I would: TELL ME WHAT FUCKING ARTISTS HAD WORSE OUTPUT AT AGE 57 FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST JUST TELL ME IT IS ONLY YOUR OPINION THERE ARE NO RIGHT OR WEONG ANSWERS JUST DEBATE FOR FUCK'S SAKE. [Edited 9/9/15 14:35pm]

KS....what everyones said regarding the artists you mentioned....that they didnt work outside their box....well in this kind of comparison you're making...... that really matters. they all did what they KNOW.

none of them attempted to appeal to the younger commercial mainstream audience....so if prince got the NPG together and did a funk album we;d be complaining that he didnt attempt anything new lololol

i'd venture if any of the artists you mentioned had the nerve to attempt a contemporary mainstream release like P just did - well then you'd have a conversation.

however mccartney just attached himself to kanye and rhianna - and it was .....not bad, odd but risky in a good way. so there arent that many older artists that managed this at all.

[Edited 9/9/15 14:57pm]

Of course there are many people who genuinely don't care for Prince's recent output, but I think his trend-chasing youth-driven music is problematic for his fanbase for a deeper reason...

.

The artists mentioned in the OP made mature music their fans could relate to. They aged with their fanbase and stayed relevant to where their listeners were in their lives. Prince is not. Honestly, I begin to suspect he resents having an aging fanbase.

.

For those of us who grew up with him, he represented our ideals; he was our voice. But now we're no longer the "new power generation", we've become the "old ideas". Throughout his career, we've heard of him growing bored with collaborators and ditching them once he was ready to move on and not look back. We've all read the interviews with hurt and disgrunteld former associates. What we never suspected was that one day, it would be US who was left behind. I actually enjoy the new album, but his resistance to writing mature, reflective music and his refusal to give us the remasters makes me think he's...breaking up with us. Hannah and Josh and their generation are his new girlfriend, and our phones aren't ringing anymore. Listening to his new music does start to feel a bit like Facebook stalking an old flame.

.

Of course I'm being a little jokey, but I think there's also some real truth there too.

Genesia said:

Neil Diamond released the terrific (and pretty much universally praised) 12 Songs in 2005, when he was 64.

Of course, Rick Rubin produced that one. Prince would never have a producer who wasn't in awe of him, so we get HITNRUN.

He was even older when he made 'Psychedelic Pill', and that's in my top 5 Neil albums!

renfield said:

MrsFelicityCrumble said:

Aerogram said:

I'd like this thread better if a person's exact age meant something important.

Maybe if it was broader, like "in their fifties". You could gauge everyone at 56 instead and say so and so didn't even release an album, while Prince released two. Or go to 55 and say oh Prince didn't release anything, how sad, what happened to the guy that...

One thing I know is that we're so happy to have something to argue over about. Maybe I'll have to start saving energy for phases 2 and 3.