NorthC said:

Jenn2 said:

It's in a strange state: it's recognised as one of the greatest albums of all time/the decade, received retrospective and contemporary acclaim, was moderately commercially succesful and headed-up by a popular lead single (the title track) but doesn't seem to have wide public appeal. It's lack of popularity is a great shame, it's Prince's most eclectic album genre-wise, IMHO.

[Edited 8/19/15 14:33pm]

We're back at Matt Thorne's book and at the beginning of chapter 14, he makes an interesting observation: that SOTT used to be in critic's "best albums ever" lists, but not anymore. And if the album were to be remastered, it would get a second life. And that's what folks on this site are saying: Face it, Prince! You're an oldies act! If you want to remind everybody how great you are, remaster those old albums and promote them! Stop thinking that surrounding yourself with women half your age is going to make you hip!

Yep!

NorthC said:

Jenn2 said:

It's in a strange state: it's recognised as one of the greatest albums of all time/the decade, received retrospective and contemporary acclaim, was moderately commercially succesful and headed-up by a popular lead single (the title track) but doesn't seem to have wide public appeal. It's lack of popularity is a great shame, it's Prince's most eclectic album genre-wise, IMHO.

[Edited 8/19/15 14:33pm]

We're back at Matt Thorne's book and at the beginning of chapter 14, he makes an interesting observation: that SOTT used to be in critic's "best albums ever" lists, but not anymore. And if the album were to be remastered, it would get a second life. And that's what folks on this site are saying: Face it, Prince! You're an oldies act! If you want to remind everybody how great you are, remaster those old albums and promote them! Stop thinking that surrounding yourself with women half your age is going to make you hip!

SPIN just listed Sign O' The Times as the #2 greatest album of the last 25 years... So I don't know where you're getting it "used to be in critic's best album ever lists, but not anymore..."

Jenn2 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Dude is "researching" and hasn't even bothered to visit PrinceVault despite doign this FOR TWO MONTHS. He's a tourist who doesn't even has a map; hell, he hasn't even traveled to his destination. And this person is going to write an encyclopedia entry? Oh yeah, that's going to be great.

Actually, I had visited PrinceVault before posting here, although I was cautious of using it as it doesn't employ any formal referencing system (where are the page numbers?) so I considered it a bit of a red flag. I've now realised that it's pretty accurate in spite of this.

Two further observations:

1) Stop Making Sense is also, IMHO, the best concert movie of all time. Although, the audio CD of the concert is, IMHO, terrible. I own the Special Edition CD, so I'm not sure whether this new master is problematic or it's all of them, but I've heard of multiple that people have ripped the audio from their DVD/VHS.

2) I'm amused someone so grumpy lists Bassment Jaxx (pure, unbridled joy) as one of their favourite artists.

[Edited 8/19/15 14:03pm]

Have you ever seen Bassment Jaxx live? They're in my top 5 of artists I've seen live... then again maybe that was the moon rocks I was on

[Edited 8/19/15 22:14pm]

Jenn2 said:

jaawwnn said:

Well anyway, what's worth noting about the album, imho, is that it's actually kind of lacking in any specific focus. Most prince albums up to that point had a fairly set sound each (with some variation of course) but this one was all over the place. It plays like a best of but with new songs instead of old ones, while also looking to the future a little bit (IT could be seen to be moving towards the Batman sound for example).

Don't make the mistake, which others have made, of saying that it's Prince's There's a Riot Goin' on, based purely on the title track.

Christgau's review is fairly on the money from my point of view

http://www.robertchristga...hp?id=2806

there's also an entire world of stories in regards outtakes with unreleased projects such as Dream Factory, Camille, Crystal Ball... you should look into all of them to understand it better.

Finally, it's worth noting that it was the last album recorded before Paisley Park Studios were built and Prince sealed himself away from the world, Howard Hughes style. Read into his career after this point as you please...

[Edited 8/19/15 9:04am]

One of the most interesting things so far has been discovering where the outtakes come in and fall out. An interesting claim from one biography is that bootlegs of Crystal Ball are circulating. Although, this conflicts with claims by other sources that "Rebirth of the Flesh" has never been released, except for a version which (according to one source) does not reflect the original that appeared on the NPG website c. early 2000s. I'm therefore guessing that such a bootleg is fairly recent.

[Edited 8/19/15 14:23pm]

[Edited 8/19/15 14:39pm]

The studio recording of Rebirth of the Flesh has never been officially released. It's been circulating on bootlegs for many (~20+) years, though. The NPG Music Club version is from a live rehearsal. I hope I'm misundersanding this post.

feeluupp said:

NorthC said:

Jenn2 said: We're back at Matt Thorne's book and at the beginning of chapter 14, he makes an interesting observation: that SOTT used to be in critic's "best albums ever" lists, but not anymore. And if the album were to be remastered, it would get a second life. And that's what folks on this site are saying: Face it, Prince! You're an oldies act! If you want to remind everybody how great you are, remaster those old albums and promote them! Stop thinking that surrounding yourself with women half your age is going to make you hip!

SPIN just listed Sign O' The Times as the #2 greatest album of the last 25 years... So I don't know where you're getting it "used to be in critic's best album ever lists, but not anymore..."

Yeah, what's up with that?

SOTT's ascent to the status it eventually attained wasn't immediate though. At first, there was a bit of resistance. While a lot of younger fans (and some older ones) tend to present everything before Batman as one long hmmm PARADE of critical acclaim, after getting uneven reviews for ATWIAD then more appreciation for Parade while still being perceived as highly self-indulgent, the first reactions to SOTT were initially cautiously positive, then they got better within two or three months. By the time of the Grammy nominations, you'd think everyone had fallen on their knees to praise Prince right away, but that would be forgetting that some were not immediately seduced.

For instance, Nelson George wrote a piece in which he said something along the lines of "Prince is the best when he sticks to his roots and is unconvincing when he doesn't". He singled out IIWYG and (I think) tracks like Strange Relationship. Today, he'd be laughed out of the room, but you have to remember a lot of people wanted Prince to be a hit-maker and anything else was viewed as self-indulgence.

So what happened was: SOTT (the song) was released to great acclaim, IIWYG was practically ignored and seen as a dick move, then U Got The Look recaptured the imagination plus Adore and Housequake became certified cult classics. By the time critics were writing their year-in-review rankings, SOTT was right up there along with Joshua Tree, but it took some warming up after ATWIAD and Parade.

BartVanHemelen said:

Revolution said:

I believe the movie is the greatest concert movie ever!

.

No, that honor goes to Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense, especially since that movie actually features the audio and video of a concert, and not a re-recorded audio track and a mimed concert.

They are both great concert movies...although I'd pedantically point out that Stop Making Sense actually features audio and video of 3 concerts! I personally don't have a problem or consider SOTT to be any less valid as an artistic statement than Stop Making Sense because it's not truly "live"...

Also, slight tangentially, I'd argue there's as much artifice in Springsteen's average joe persona as in Prince's new-age space-hippy schtick. My point, I suppose, being nothing is "authentic" therefore to rate one work of art over an other on this basis is flawed.

BartVanHemelen said:

Aerogram said:

He'd probably refuse to give directions to a 89 year old tourist because tourists should know better than leave their map at the hotel.

It's pathetic to talk down to people based on, of all things, your knowledge of a musician.

.

Dude is "researching" and hasn't even bothered to visit PrinceVault despite doign this FOR TWO MONTHS. He's a tourist who doesn't even has a map; hell, he hasn't even traveled to his destination. And this person is going to write an encyclopedia entry? Oh yeah, that's going to be great.

Dude can probably spell "doing" though...which, by your own logic, automatically makes him a more intelligent person than you.

hw3004 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

No, that honor goes to Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense, especially since that movie actually features the audio and video of a concert, and not a re-recorded audio track and a mimed concert.

They are both great concert movies...although I'd pedantically point out that Stop Making Sense actually features audio and video of 3 concerts! I personally don't have a problem or consider SOTT to be any less valid as an artistic statement than Stop Making Sense because it's not truly "live"...

.

Yes, it's from three concerts, but it's still sourced from actual concerts. SOTT's audio is a re-recording of a concert, and the video is Prince and band lip-syncing to that audio.

.

Which is probably why lower-quality recordings from that tour are actually more exciting. I felt so long before I knew how much of SOTT isn't really live.

.

Also, slight tangentially, I'd argue there's as much artifice in Springsteen's average joe persona as in Prince's new-age space-hippy schtick. My point, I suppose, being nothing is "authentic" therefore to rate one work of art over an other on this basis is flawed.

.

It is well-known Springsteen image was carefully constructed.