KingSausage said:

Look, I really liked AOA and all. But you have to be living in such a Prince bubble to think it was the best album of 2014. That's just crazy.

Sure but it's not the craziest thing said on this thread by any measure. The thread itself is a vehicle for Violet's idée fixe, which is itself a vehicle for her need to condescend.

She should just put it in her signature that she hates AOA, sounds important to her.

tricky99 said:

Few artists get the respect from the media that Prince recieves, which is cool. And yeah, I agree with the statement about his "diminutive" height. What's up with articles always referencing it? Prince has been short for 57 years, ain't nothin' new. What does it got to do with the article

So today once again Prince was named in another top artists list. The 100 best writters of ...ling Stone. At #18 he is listed ahead of almost everyone in pop music since the start of whatever their history is defined as.


That's the Prince I consider him to be. I am not berating anyone for liking his newer lesser music. Enjoy! I have said that from the start. Enjoy what you like. I only mentioned AOA among others such as 20Ten and MPLSound as one of the examples becasue of the sillyness employed by some in today's media when mentioning a legend such as Prince.
Yes he deserves incredible respect, and a condesending patronizing attitude such as praising him in one sentence, then in the next sentence calling him a purple midget is not respect. Sending out an unqualified person to/or demand a fluff patronizing review is not respect. WIth his status he does deserve a hell of a lot respect as an artist.

My opinion matters no more than anyones, I have mine and you all have yours. Mine has just happens to allign with what the aggreagte of greatness is defined as.
I am highly critical. Let me repeat. I am highly critical. I love and listen to music all the time.

Again, I am highly critical when it comes to music and art in general. That's why I became a Prince fan.

More than once I've read supposedly professional critics writing nonsense about a Prince album, or totally missing the point of said album. As a Prince fans I often read approximations or reviews so superficial that they make no sense at all to me, because I have a much greater knowledge of P's work than the writer.

The problem I think is that critics are supposed to comment on music by all kinds of artists, some they know well and some they know only vaguely if at all. To some extent I believe to be able to understand a work of art and have something relevent to say about it you must have some true insights about either the artist's approach and past career AND/OR about how that work fits in the context of its contemporary scene. Either that or being able to tell a very personal relationship/story that ties the writer and the record that's being reviewed.

Critics should also be able to explain why they believe a work of art works or not. The capacity to develop their analysis is crucial.

I know I'm often tempted to review albums or movies on my blog and then I think "OK, what do I have to say that's really unique or relevant about this album/movie, that goes beyond description and my personal opinion and will give the reader an insightful analysis of the work I'm talking about?", and most of the time I give-up on the idea because unless I find a truly original angle, I realize there's no point in wasting the readers' time.

databank said:

More than once I've read supposedly professional critics writing nonsense about a Prince album, or totally missing the point of said album. As a Prince fans I often read approximations or reviews so superficial that they make no sense at all to me, because I have a much greater knowledge of P's work than the writer.

The problem I think is that critics are supposed to comment on music by all kinds of artists, some they know well and some they know only vaguely if at all. To some extent I believe to be able to understand a work of art and have something relevent to say about it you must have some true insights about either the artist's approach and past career AND/OR about how that work fits in the context of its contemporary scene. Either that or being able to tell a very personal relationship/story that ties the writer and the record that's being reviewed.

Critics should also be able to explain why they believe a work of art works or not. The capacity to develop their analysis is crucial.

I know I'm often tempted to review albums or movies on my blog and then I think "OK, what do I have to say that's really unique or relevant about this album/movie, that goes beyond description and my personal opinion and will give the reader an insightful analysis of the work I'm talking about?", and most of the time I give-up on the idea because unless I find a truly original angle, I realize there's no point in wasting the readers' time.

I get what you're saying, but critics can and should rise above pure opinion, and present from the point of veiw as someone who knows and cares about the arts or whatever they are writing about. Someone saying the direction in Superman III is on the level of Kubrick's best is an opinion as good as anyone elses, but can that opinion be put to scrutny? I think it definitly can.

It's cool that people like what they like and opinion is one thing, but then there is also a deeper appeciation of things that some people care about. Details and such that the average person may not care about, it's all good. People are not wrong in liking something, but there is something wrong in any profession when you are a hack and do not care enough about your audience.

[Edited 8/13/15 12:39pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

So today once again Prince was named in another top artists list. The 100 best writters of ...ling Stone. At #18 he is listed ahead of almost everyone in pop music since the start of whatever their history is defined as.


That's the Prince I consider him to be. I am not berating anyone for liking his newer lesser music. Enjoy! I have said that from the start. Enjoy what you like. I only mentioned AOA among others such as 20Ten and MPLSound as one of the examples becasue of the sillyness employed by some in today's media when mentioning a legend such as Prince.
Yes he deserves incredible respect, and a condesending patronizing attitude such as praising him in one sentence, then in the next sentence calling him a purple midget is not respect. Sending out an unqualified person to/or demand a fluff patronizing review is not respect. WIth his status he does deserve a hell of a lot respect as an artist.

My opinion matters no more than anyones, I have mine and you all have yours. Mine has just happens to allign with what the aggreagte of greatness is defined as.
I am highly critical. Let me repeat. I am highly critical. I love and listen to music all the time.

Again, I am highly critical when it comes to music and art in general. That's why I became a Prince fan.

Great post, Violet, it clarifies your position quite well. It's just that your description of anyone who happens to like AOA on a different level or through a different perspective than your own greatly contradicts your condemnation of any form of patronizing.

There are so many ways to approach artistry. For me, AOA was a meta-experience. It was like listening to Prince through a prism. You may not like this prism and maybe you don't find it current enough, but I didn't listen to AOA with the mindset that Prince was trying to be the latest of the latest. I listened to it as an exploration of modern styles that suit him to various degrees, sometimes it was greatness (Clouds, Way Back Home, Funkn Roll), sometimes it was maybe not the absolute best he could have done (Gold Standard, Art Official Cage) but I got the message immediately that on that record, Prince was talking through a prism, I guess using elements he happened to enjoy in modern productions.

I guess we'll forever disagree but it's nice to see some effort to rise above the usual tit for that.

Aerogram said:

V10LETBLUES said:

So today once again Prince was named in another top artists list. The 100 best writters of ...ling Stone. At #18 he is listed ahead of almost everyone in pop music since the start of whatever their history is defined as.


That's the Prince I consider him to be. I am not berating anyone for liking his newer lesser music. Enjoy! I have said that from the start. Enjoy what you like. I only mentioned AOA among others such as 20Ten and MPLSound as one of the examples becasue of the sillyness employed by some in today's media when mentioning a legend such as Prince.
Yes he deserves incredible respect, and a condesending patronizing attitude such as praising him in one sentence, then in the next sentence calling him a purple midget is not respect. Sending out an unqualified person to/or demand a fluff patronizing review is not respect. WIth his status he does deserve a hell of a lot respect as an artist.

My opinion matters no more than anyones, I have mine and you all have yours. Mine has just happens to allign with what the aggreagte of greatness is defined as.
I am highly critical. Let me repeat. I am highly critical. I love and listen to music all the time.

Again, I am highly critical when it comes to music and art in general. That's why I became a Prince fan.

Great post, Violet, it clarifies your position quite well. It's just that your description of anyone who happens to like AOA on a different level or through a different perspective than your own greatly contradicts your condemnation of any form of patronizing.

There are so many ways to approach artistry. For me, AOA was a meta-experience. It was like listening to Prince through a prism. You may not like this prism and maybe you don't find it current enough, but I didn't listen to AOA with the mindset that Prince was trying to be the latest of the latest. I listened to it as an exploration of modern styles that suit him to various degrees, sometimes it was greatness (Clouds, Way Back Home, Funkn Roll), sometimes it was maybe not the absolute best he could have done (Gold Standard, Art Official Cage) but I got the message immediately that on that record, Prince was talking through a prism, I guess using elements he happened to enjoy in modern productions.

I guess we'll forever disagree but it's nice to see some effort to rise above the usual tit for that.

Cool.

And yes we will not agree, yet I feel strongly you will side with me on this in the years to come depending on how deep into music you become.

And I also feel you can fill a room with music producers today and not one will call whatever the hell the AOA sound is as "modern", but the word "bad" or something much worse will definitly be thrown around.

V10LETBLUES said:

Aerogram said:

Great post, Violet, it clarifies your position quite well. It's just that your description of anyone who happens to like AOA on a different level or through a different perspective than your own greatly contradicts your condemnation of any form of patronizing.

There are so many ways to approach artistry. For me, AOA was a meta-experience. It was like listening to Prince through a prism. You may not like this prism and maybe you don't find it current enough, but I didn't listen to AOA with the mindset that Prince was trying to be the latest of the latest. I listened to it as an exploration of modern styles that suit him to various degrees, sometimes it was greatness (Clouds, Way Back Home, Funkn Roll), sometimes it was maybe not the absolute best he could have done (Gold Standard, Art Official Cage) but I got the message immediately that on that record, Prince was talking through a prism, I guess using elements he happened to enjoy in modern productions.

I guess we'll forever disagree but it's nice to see some effort to rise above the usual tit for that.

Cool.

And yes we will not agree, yet I feel strongly you will side with me on this in the years to come depending on how deep into music you become.

And I also feel you can fill a room with music producers today and not one will call whatever the hell the AOA sound is as "modern", but the word "bad" or something much worse will definitly be thrown around.

The thing is: modern producers are only modern for a while until they become yesterday's wizards. That's why I'm not particularly interested in finding out what the producer du jour thinks about Prince's body of work and its recent additions.

I'm a big film buff and I remember what some critics said about movies like Fanny and Alexander. Reading the reviews at the time, you'd think Bergman totally went crowd-pleasing, many purists call this movie a sentimental rehash of many Bergman movies before but today you barely can fin d anyone who thinks that movie is not classic.

Anyhoo, we'll see in a few years who is right. Does this mean you're putting the topic to rest??

Aerogram said:

Jon Bream is probably one of the best-known reviewers of Prince's music, and he himself admits to not always giving Prince a good review. I respect that from a reviewer.

.

In the past, I always noticed that USA Today would just gush over everything Prince did (Rolling Stone is almost as bad).

Se7en said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Aerogram said:

The thing is: modern producers are only modern for a while until they become yesterday's wizards. That's why I'm not particularly interested in finding out what the producer du jour thinks about Prince's body of work and its recent additions.

I'm a big film buff and I remember what some critics said about movies like Fanny and Alexander. Reading the reviews at the time, you'd think Bergman totally went crowd-pleasing, many purists call this movie a sentimental rehash of many Bergman movies before but today you barely can fin d anyone who thinks that movie is not classic.

Anyhoo, we'll see in a few years who is right. Does this mean you're putting the topic to rest??

It's always about the individual. Max Martin today or Teo Macero yesterday. That's in music, film, or anything else. There is good and great. And there is bad and even atrocious. If it's strictly "trendy" then that's not modern or anything else other than pandering. AOA foes not sound "modern" or contemporary, just plain cringe worthy. Old fashioned and clichéd and amateurish. That's why I kept saying I thought Prince was going deaf. [Edited 8/13/15 16:29pm]

We've gone over the "deaf" thing. It's very possible Prince has some degree of hearing loss, but that's the case for most band who have been touring for years, especially before it was the norm to wear some protection on stage.

I understand you liked his vocals on Hardrocklover, so if he's singing in a way you don't like because he's going deaf, how does he record Hardrocklover?

Most musicians his age have some hearing loss, but he had Josh along so it's not a strong angle on this thing cause that would mean Josh is going deaf too.

Here's my attempt at a fake review of any given album, and after a while they all read exactly the same.

.

"The diminutive purple rocker Prince releases his new album this week.

.

His latest effort, 'Example', is a true return to form for the tiny Minneapolis genius. Jam-packed with funk grooves, effortless guitar solos, and dance tracks, you'll be partying like it's 1999 all over again.

.

After years of fighting his record label – and a 7-year stint where he notoriously changed his name to an unpronouncable – he now enjoys the freedom to record and release music as he wishes.

.

Backed by his current band, 3rdEyeGirl, the 57-year old Artist Once Again Known As Prince has never looked and sounded better."

Aerogram said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Cool.

And yes we will not agree, yet I feel strongly you will side with me on this in the years to come depending on how deep into music you become.

And I also feel you can fill a room with music producers today and not one will call whatever the hell the AOA sound is as "modern", but the word "bad" or something much worse will definitly be thrown around.

The thing is: modern producers are only modern for a while until they become yesterday's wizards. That's why I'm not particularly interested in finding out what the producer du jour thinks about Prince's body of work and its recent additions.

I'm a big film buff and I remember what some critics said about movies like Fanny and Alexander. Reading the reviews at the time, you'd think Bergman totally went crowd-pleasing, many purists call this movie a sentimental rehash of many Bergman movies before but today you barely can fin d anyone who thinks that movie is not classic.

Anyhoo, we'll see in a few years who is right. Does this mean you're putting the topic to rest??

Great post. Take Timbaland as an example. He worked wonders for Missy Elliott, Justin Timberlake and to a lesser degree Nelly Furtado. They all had hits with Timbaland as producer. When he tried to work the same "formula" for Chris Cornell - it was potentially a career-killing move for Cornell -- epic failure.

.

The same "by-the-numbers" production doesn't always work . . . and now 10+ years later, the music – while still great – does sound dated.

V10LETBLUES said:

V10LETBLUES said:

^ You're right, both hardrocklover and Stare do not have that same annoying thin tinny sound. And the tone and timbre of the sounds and instrumentation are not in the same high end that chases kids and dogs away. Both sound much warmer. Maybe AOA WAS intentionally intended to sound artificial, amateurish and sonically repugnant as an artistic statement? I don't know? It is a curious thing to note though. [Edited 8/14/15 21:10pm]

"Sonically repugnant" no less -- lol. Encyclopedia Dramatica.

2020 said:

[Edited 8/12/15 7:26am]

Sweetie, please look up the word "patronize" before you use it again. And do not, under any circumstances, say "patronize to." Thank you.

Well so far the new tracks being released sound like an invigerated Prince. The amateurish sound is all but gone. He is sounding like the legend Prince that deserves to be on all of "best" lists.

I went in to his new version of This Could Be Us with a lot hesitaion as I find it hard to revisit anything on AOA but damn if it didn't sound fantastic! Gone was the amateurish thin tinny repulsive sound of it's original.

If these tracks are indicative of what's on it, this could be a truly great Prince album. I wonder what those pandering and clueless critics will say when something actually good is released.