Since the thread is getting wayyy too long. Continue discussion here................

Link to first thread http://prince.org/msg/7/418005

When one hears "very dense and mechanical, with lots of intriguing electronic noises." why is it the assumption that it will be Josh's doing? Prince never needed any help with such a sound. I think the telling thing for whether something is Josh's contribution are the particular sounds used and any patterns, loops elements that just seem new or unfamiliar to the Prince musical universe, but even then its hard to say because you don't really know what Prince has been toying around with in the past several years.. anyway, just a random thought.

lezama said:

When one hears "very dense and mechanical, with lots of intriguing electronic noises." why is it the assumption that it will be Josh's doing? Prince never needed any help with such a sound. I think the telling thing for whether something is Josh's contribution are the particular sounds used and any patterns, loops elements that just seem new or unfamiliar to the Prince musical universe, but even then its hard to say because you don't really know what Prince has been toying around with in the past several years.. anyway, just a random thought.

This album is said to be co produced by Josh as well... So in the ned it is Josh's doing.

I was responding more to a comment in the other thread suggesting its all Josh driven. My point was more that with this type of thing you can't really know who contributes what. Who developed the basis of a sound of a song, who adds elements to otherwise completed sounds? With electronic centered music its extremely difficult to pinpoint those things things because there are no real signatures that identify a contribution. With some artists you can tell because of their style in general, but with prince thats nearly impossible because he's just always been all over the place with sounds. If something sounds really cheesy but you end up liking it after several listens though its most likely Prince... if something sounds really trendy and like something you'd hear from mainstream people on the radio its probably Josh. But most often things are not at either extreme so its much more difficult to pinpoint who did what unlike with live instruments.

feeluupp said:

lezama said:

When one hears "very dense and mechanical, with lots of intriguing electronic noises." why is it the assumption that it will be Josh's doing? Prince never needed any help with such a sound. I think the telling thing for whether something is Josh's contribution are the particular sounds used and any patterns, loops elements that just seem new or unfamiliar to the Prince musical universe, but even then its hard to say because you don't really know what Prince has been toying around with in the past several years.. anyway, just a random thought.

This album is said to be co produced by Josh as well... So in the ned it is Josh's doing.

lezama said:

I was responding more to a comment in the other thread suggesting its all Josh driven. My point was more that with this type of thing you can't really know who contributes what. Who developed the basis of a sound of a song, who adds elements to otherwise completed sounds? With electronic centered music its extremely difficult to pinpoint those things things because there are no real signatures that identify a contribution. With some artists you can tell because of their style in general, but with prince thats nearly impossible because he's just always been all over the place with sounds. If something sounds really cheesy but you end up liking it after several listens though its most likely Prince... if something sounds really trendy and like something you'd hear from mainstream people on the radio its probably Josh. But most often things are not at either extreme so its much more difficult to pinpoint who did what unlike with live instruments.

feeluupp said:

This album is said to be co produced by Josh as well... So in the ned it is Josh's doing.

I really doubt we have to wonder that much about Josh. So maybe he gave him total control of a track or some aspects of the tracks, but come on: this is Prince, he's a control freak whatever Josh is doing is either something Prince liked out of many rejected ideas or it's Josh being directed to come up with a certain vibe. Either way, I wouldn't worry with him -- if he's involved, it's not going to be halfway, that much is obvious.

Aerogram said:

lezama said:

I was responding more to a comment in the other thread suggesting its all Josh driven. My point was more that with this type of thing you can't really know who contributes what. Who developed the basis of a sound of a song, who adds elements to otherwise completed sounds? With electronic centered music its extremely difficult to pinpoint those things things because there are no real signatures that identify a contribution. With some artists you can tell because of their style in general, but with prince thats nearly impossible because he's just always been all over the place with sounds. If something sounds really cheesy but you end up liking it after several listens though its most likely Prince... if something sounds really trendy and like something you'd hear from mainstream people on the radio its probably Josh. But most often things are not at either extreme so its much more difficult to pinpoint who did what unlike with live instruments.

I really doubt we have to wonder that much about Josh. So maybe he gave him total control of a track or some aspects of the tracks, but come on: this is Prince, he's a control freak whatever Josh is doing is either something Prince liked out of many rejected ideas or it's Josh being directed to come up with a certain vibe. Either way, I wouldn't worry with him -- if he's involved, it's not going to be halfway, that much is obvious.

Yeah I agree, as we know from some of the full live instrument tracks, he plays them sometimes live with the band and rerecords everything in the studio by himself.. so yeah, the control can't be argued with at all. And I think that's always been there. There is still an impression some have though that at certain points in his career certain people in his circle make more of an imprint on his songs than others. The way that Ive come to see it is like he likes working with others that allow him to harness a certain sound or energies or inspirations.. everyone is a muse in a certain way.

No one's mentioned that Tidal will be getting some of Prince's other albums on its site, evidently, like 1999 and Purple Rain.

This is according to Jay Z's statement about Prince joining ship.

I won't be subscribing to Tidal but I am intrigued to see what Phase 2 will bring. I'll be getting the physical copy of HitNRun, whenever that comes out.

Prince is trying to be like Marvel Comics with his 'phase' talk.

feeluupp said:

lezama said:

When one hears "very dense and mechanical, with lots of intriguing electronic noises." why is it the assumption that it will be Josh's doing? Prince never needed any help with such a sound. I think the telling thing for whether something is Josh's contribution are the particular sounds used and any patterns, loops elements that just seem new or unfamiliar to the Prince musical universe, but even then its hard to say because you don't really know what Prince has been toying around with in the past several years.. anyway, just a random thought.

This album is said to be co produced by Josh as well... So in the ned it is Josh's doing.

I'm not sure I understand why people are willling to give Josh credit for almost everything in the tracks they work together on. Yes, I know P supposedly didn't perform anything beyond vocals on some tracks on AOA--but I don't think that was the general model, at least from anything they've said. And I don't honestly believe it even when they say it just because they say it. Over- and mis-crediting others is so common, I can't tell anything from that--remember all those NPG and Revolution tracks that had limited or no input from bandmembers. I don't hear anything so stunningly "non-Prince" on AOA that I know it's Josh, and I have yet to hear anyone else make a compelling argument for any particular elements. I'd like to blame him for Funknroll, but I'm not really sure about it.

It just sounds like a Prince album after someone made him listen to some music he hadn't listened to before, and he pulls what he can from relatively little exposure (beyond U Know, of course). Pretty much still Prince, though.

williamb610 said:

No one's mentioned that Tidal will be getting some of Prince's other albums on its site, evidently, like 1999 and Purple Rain.

This is according to Jay Z's statement about Prince joining ship.

I won't be subscribing to Tidal but I am intrigued to see what Phase 2 will bring. I'll be getting the physical copy of HitNRun, whenever that comes out.

Prince is trying to be like Marvel Comics with his 'phase' talk.

They're already there, and they're still on Google Play. He's removed them from streaming websites with a free-tier. I'll be impressed if his post-warners stuff is added but can't see it happening.

[Edited 8/10/15 0:49am]

So: why the 'tidal' deal?

If 'tidal' paid Prince more than 1 million dollars for the exclusive period they are out of their minds.

If they did we understand why P is in this deal.

What do you think the period is worth to 'tidal'?

lezama said:

I was responding more to a comment in the other thread suggesting its all Josh driven. My point was more that with this type of thing you can't really know who contributes what. Who developed the basis of a sound of a song, who adds elements to otherwise completed sounds? With electronic centered music its extremely difficult to pinpoint those things things because there are no real signatures that identify a contribution. With some artists you can tell because of their style in general, but with prince thats nearly impossible because he's just always been all over the place with sounds. If something sounds really cheesy but you end up liking it after several listens though its most likely Prince... if something sounds really trendy and like something you'd hear from mainstream people on the radio its probably Josh. But most often things are not at either extreme so its much more difficult to pinpoint who did what unlike with live instruments.

feeluupp said:

This album is said to be co produced by Josh as well... So in the ned it is Josh's doing.

That was me who implied Josh's involvement from the article description. ("...very dense and mechanical, with lots of intriguing electronic noises.") I never meant to suggest it was all Josh driven. But that description had Josh written all over it -- after what we've heard from him w/ Prince so far. He's definitely taken Prince in a new direction. Personally I think Josh's style is pretty distinct; although I'm not skilled enough to put it into words. In short, he's somehow enhanced Prince's sound and given it new life. And if Josh did play all the instruments (mostly synth?) and write the music(?) on up to 3 tracks on AOA, I think that's pretty incredible of Prince to let him do that considering Prince's legendary need for creative control. I've been very happy with their collaboration so far.

Anyone feel there could be Two albums coming?

Weird that there is a track Exclusive to Spotify "Stare" if the Album is Exclusive to Tidal.

Noticed a twwet something about Hitnrun Phase One so maybe Phase two is a 2nd Released exclusive to Spotify?

Seems like something he may do. (To piss off fans more who dont want to sign up for both)

Sure I read something about Stare not being on the Tidal album somewhere too.

[Edited 8/10/15 4:04am]

fnksoul said:

Sure I read something about Stare not being on the Tidal album somewhere too.

Prince3EG tweeted this: STARE NOT INCLUDED

GoldiesParade said:

fnksoul said:

Sure I read something about Stare not being on the Tidal album somewhere too.

Prince3EG tweeted this: STARE NOT INCLUDED

Yeah and that, but I think an article I read mentioned it not being on too, can't for the life of me remember where.

fnksoul said:

Anyone feel there could be Two albums coming?

Weird that there is a track Exclusive to Spotify "Stare" if the Album is Exclusive to Tidal.

Noticed a twwet something about Hitnrun Phase One so maybe Phase two is a 2nd Released exclusive to Spotify?

Seems like something he may do. (To piss off fans more who dont want to sign up for both)

Sure I read something about Stare not being on the Tidal album somewhere too.

[Edited 8/10/15 4:04am]

He should release both albums on the same day just like last year

udo said:

So: why the 'tidal' deal?

If 'tidal' paid Prince more than 1 million dollars for the exclusive period they are out of their minds.

If they did we understand why P is in this deal.

What do you think the period is worth to 'tidal'?

Considering Prince's position regarding artists getting paid it isn't impossible that he hasn't received an advance for the exclusive period and is just supporting what he feels is the best platform for the artists.

jaawwnn said:

I didn't get a chance to post on the first thread, but reading this initally, I had to laugh. I'm not, I repeat, not going to pay money to subscribe to some joke of a streaming service that isn't living up to the hype just to "listen" and not purchase Prince's new album. Sorry, not interested. Wake me when it's over.

missfee said:

I'm not, I repeat, not going to pay money to subscribe to some joke of a streaming service that isn't living up to the hype just to "listen" and not purchase Prince's new album. Sorry, not interested. Wake me when it's over.

Basically that was the gist of the first thread.

TheEnglishGent said:

udo said:

Considering Prince's position regarding artists getting paid it isn't impossible that he hasn't received an advance for the exclusive period and is just supporting what he feels is the best platform for the artists.

Yeah probabaly not far from what's happened.

If Tidal said here's £250k upfront (Made this number up so could be more/less) for 1 month exclusivity that's more than he'd make from the number of stream royalties over 6-12 month period sure he's snap their hands off.


Although following it up with a physical release, he would be taking a risk, if the album sucks people will already know it sucks so would be running a risk effecting sales.

missfee said:

I didn't get a chance to post on the first thread, but reading this initally, I had to laugh. I'm not, I repeat, not going to pay money to subscribe to some joke of a streaming service that isn't living up to the hype just to "listen" and not purchase Prince's new album. Sorry, not interested. Wake me when it's over.

Yep, the thing is with Tidal is, it actually has potential, but its come too late in the game at a time when people already subscribe to Spotify and others its hard to get people to switch, even harder now apple have started theirs.

The App needs alot of work to convince me of a permenant switch I think.

I am sorta done with all this. It doesn't need to be this complicated to buy music from an artist I like. I am also not connecting with the new tunes at all. Interest in the guy is seriously fading at the moment...however he always seems to be able to surprise me so hopefully things get better.

Poplife88 said:

It doesn't need to be this complicated to buy music from an artist I like.

Amen.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/k...#.inAgbLAd

FROM THE ARTICLE:

"He’s releasing his new album HitNRun Sept. 7 on Jay Z’s much-maligned streaming service Tidal, saying that he has given Jay Z the master and it will live on the streaming site for a few years exclusively."

Just a "few years"? So in a few years I guess that's when the physical copy will be released? What if there's more albums that are released and/or pulled from Tidal till then?

Hmm

PurpleSkipper58 said:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/k...#.inAgbLAd

FROM THE ARTICLE:

"He’s releasing his new album HitNRun Sept. 7 on Jay Z’s much-maligned streaming service Tidal, saying that he has given Jay Z the master and it will live on the streaming site for a few years exclusively."

Just a "few years"? So in a few years I guess that's when the physical copy will be released? What if there's more albums that are released and/or pulled from Tidal till then?

Hmm

.

Bwahahahaha. the famz got punked again. They were all over those pathetic tweets mere days ago and they were so sure that this Tidal shit was just going to be a couple of weeks and then it would be on CD or available for download. And I said: you lot still haven't learned from past experiences. But I was an incorregible negativist. And look now!

PurpleSkipper58 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

So basically Prince secured upfront payment in exchange for assurances that the album, marketed as for the hardcore Prince fan, would deliver an estimated # of subscriptions to Tidal.

I could be wrong, but Tidal is taking a risk here if they agreed to a fixed, upfront, guaranteed fee. I love Prince, and I love his new music but I am soooo done with this drama. He may have overestimated how many times he can go to the well his core fans.

One day last week all of his albums were on Apple Music, a couple days later they are all gone. Its kind of a joke. Prince's core fan base is dwindling - he needs to get his music out to the most people possible ... instead he seems to always go the route that delivers guaranteed short term profits.