Aerogram said:

And even with all that constant promotion and hyper-hype, you have people like Beyoncé selling just a little over 2 million units -- and we've heard about her almost perpetually with massive tours and promos. Not a day goes by without a mention of Ariana Grande and she sells just a little over 1 million units. These are clearly famine days for the record industry, the system isn't working for artists through their albums anymore, not the way it used to only a decade ago.

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

RODSERLING said:

Aerogram said:

And even with all that constant promotion and hyper-hype, you have people like Beyoncé selling just a little over 2 million units -- and we've heard about her almost perpetually with massive tours and promos. Not a day goes by without a mention of Ariana Grande and she sells just a little over 1 million units. These are clearly famine days for the record industry, the system isn't working for artists through their albums anymore, not the way it used to only a decade ago.

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

And that's why I'm worried for Prince in terms of ALBUMS... Like I said yes he will keep touring he is the king at that... But with no social media prescence, ppl don't stream his music the way he should. No YouTube where the majority of music videos are viewed at these days means no promotion...

Since 2007 his record sales are at the LOWEST of his career... If Plectrum sells only 69K WorlWide what will his next album sell? Under 50,000? Then after that? Then how will he get any more deals to release albums??

RODSERLING said:

Aerogram said:

And even with all that constant promotion and hyper-hype, you have people like Beyoncé selling just a little over 2 million units -- and we've heard about her almost perpetually with massive tours and promos. Not a day goes by without a mention of Ariana Grande and she sells just a little over 1 million units. These are clearly famine days for the record industry, the system isn't working for artists through their albums anymore, not the way it used to only a decade ago.

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

and , soooo, what...you upset that a grown man doesnt have the career you want him too,, I am upset with what it is you for work.,.. your output sucks compared to your peers and you really arent that great at it

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

I don't compare Prince with "a little unknown independent artist", I compare him with about 90% of the artists releasing albums, even on majors in fact because it's not like EVERY album released by the big three sells millions. Donald fagen is with WB for instance, how many copies can Fagen sale, seriously? There wasn't even a music video for his 2012 album! Still I don't hear anyone say fagen is a failure...

[Edited 6/25/15 7:46am]

Donald Fagen name is not supposed to attract as much as people as Prince does. He surely was not paid as much advances as Prince. His music is not attracted to young people like AOA.

By the way, Fagen's 2012 album was his best selling album since 1993, it ranked #12 on BB200 with 18.000 sales the first week.

So you can't call it a flop.

No but that's where I think we misunderstand each other. I never called it a flop, I never said selling 20,000 copies of an album was a a flop, the way I don't say someone making 1200€/month is a failure. I didn't consider NEWS a flop because an album of that sort couldn't have sold more than it did. I don't consider PlecEl and AOA flops because without a few strong singles and several real music videos and ads all over the press and Prince going on 5 big TV shows, I don't see how it could have sold so much more, and I didn't expect it to make what Musicology did becausepeople just download illegally 5 times more today than they did in 04.

The whole premise of your reasoning is "Prince is expected...". By whom? Certainly not by me. By WB? Who knows what WB expected, I'm not certain they expected him to do so much more than a Fagen at this point, or maybe they did, but who's to say?

Prince made so little effort to promote the records that he obviously didn't expect much. WB I don't know. As for fans' expectations they are as irrelevent as parents' expectations regarding their children's income: it has no impact on us, it makes no difference to us, ouyr expectations are irrelevent.

lwr001 said:

RODSERLING said:

Of course any label would accept to release a Prince album without paying advances...But the fact that prince struggled to find a deal with PLEC (for instance) is because he is aking for too much money. that's the reason why he can't find a deal.

once agian, how do you know he struggled.? You dont, period.. Are you a label head who told him to pound sand?

Just check the last 8 years lol

How couldn't you not observe that Prince struggled to sell PLEC during 2 years ? That's your problem if you can't see it. Keep on believing what you want, anyway.

lwr001 said:

RODSERLING said:

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

and , soooo, what...you upset that a grown man doesnt have the career you want him too,, I am upset with what it is you for work.,.. your output sucks compared to your peers and you really arent that great at it

I'm not upset he doesn't want to promote his records. It's just that behaviour prevent him now from entering the top 200, and to release a physical album. That's not my fault.

It's not the end of the world. Just some facts you can't go against.

Pentacle said:

Prince is in the luxury position that he doesn't really need money, yet he doesn't release his music for nothing or very little on-line.

This proves that, contrary to his own claims, he is not about the music, he is about the money.

He does not need the money, but he wants it.

RODSERLING said:

lwr001 said:

once agian, how do you know he struggled.? You dont, period.. Are you a label head who told him to pound sand?

Just check the last 8 years lol

How couldn't you not observe that Prince struggled to sell PLEC during 2 years ? That's your problem if you can't see it. Keep on believing what you want, anyway.

my problem is i dont give a fuck about another mans business, period...

As for Bart's ex cathedra's pronouncements, he actually has no idea whether Prince "peddled" Plectrum Electrum or if WB gives a damn or not. It's just that he tends to present his (patently true to form) hunches as the truth. Plus he formats some of his posts with no space for replying, I'm guessing he's not interested in someone challenging his views.

Aerogram said:

feeluupp said:

I agree... All these old time acts you see on the top selling albums of 2014- 2015, including one that has passed away (MJ) sold because of promotion...

	Soundtrack - Frozen Walt Disney - 7.057.000 copies
	Taylor Swift - 1989 Big Machine - 4.619.000 copies
	Ed Sheeran - X Atlantic / Watertower - 3.486.000 copies
	Coldplay - Ghost Stories Parlophone / Atlantic - 3.037.000 copies
	Sam Smith - In The Lonely Hour Capitol - 2.879.000 copies
	Beyoncé - Beyoncé Columbia - 2.289.000 copies
	One Direction - Four Syco Music - 1.936.000 copies
	Pharrell Williams - G I R L Back Lot / Columbia - 1.879.000 copies
	Lorde - Pure Heroine Republic / Universal - 1.815.000 copies
	Pink Floyd - The Endless River Rhino / Columbia - 1.717.000 copies
	One Direction - Midnight Memories Syco Music - 1.708.000 copies
	Katy Perry - Prism Capitol - 1.620.000 copies
	AC/DC - Rock Or Bust Columbia - 1.539.000 copies
	Michael Jackson - Xscape MJJ / Epic - 1.523.000 copies
	Imagine Dragons - Night Visions Interscope - 1.517.000 copies
	Barbra Streisand - Partners Columbia - 1.412.000 copies
	Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP 2 Aftermath / Interscope - 1.389.000 copies
	Stromae - Racine Carrée Vertigo / Mercury - 1.386.000 copies
	5 Seconds Of Summer - 5 Seconds Of Summer Capitol - 1.284.000 copies
	Soundtrack - Guardians Of The Galaxy: Awesome Mix Vol.1 Hollywood - 1.264.000 copies
	Lana Del Rey - Ultraviolence Polydor / Interscope - 1.203.000 copies
	Arctic Monkeys - AM Domino Recordings - 1.187.000 copies
	Helene Fischer - Farbenspiel Polydor / Universal Germany - 1.180.000 copies
	Bruno Mars - Unorthodox Jukebox Atlantic - 1.167.000 copies
	Pentatonix - That's Christmas To Me RCA - 1.134.000 copies
	Avicii - True Positiva / Island - 1.099.000 copies
	OneRepublic - Native Interscope - 1.087.000 copies
	Maroon 5 - V Interscope - 1.071.000 copies
	Ariana Grande - My Everything Republic - 1.062.000 copies
	AKB 48 - Tsugi No Ashiato King Records Japan - 1.052.000 copies
	Bastille - Bad Blood Virgin - 980.000 copies
	John Legend - Love In The Future Columbia - 945.000 copies
	Michael Bublé - Christmas Reprise - 941.000
	Foo Fighters - Sonic Highways Roswell / RCA - 925.000 copies
	Bruce Springsteen - High Hopes Columbia - 914.000 copies
	Linkin Park - The Hunting Party Machine Shop / Warner Bros. - 900.000 copies
	Black Keys - Turn Blue Nonesuch - 877.000 copies
	Eric Church - The Outsiders EMI Nashville - 863.000 copies
	London Grammar - If You Wait Metal & Dust Recordings - 849.000 copies
	Daft Punk - Random Access Memories Daft Life / Columbia - 844.000 copies

When did Pink Floyd release The Endless River? I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan. I guess they have the same promoter as Prince.

Question... The recent commercial failures of AOA and Plectrum... Do you think that will impact his future physical album releases??

Do you think Free Urself is going to be an independent release?

Do you think WB scratched the PR Deluxe reissue that was annoucned a year ago??

RODSERLING said:

Aerogram said:

And even with all that constant promotion and hyper-hype, you have people like Beyoncé selling just a little over 2 million units -- and we've heard about her almost perpetually with massive tours and promos. Not a day goes by without a mention of Ariana Grande and she sells just a little over 1 million units. These are clearly famine days for the record industry, the system isn't working for artists through their albums anymore, not the way it used to only a decade ago.

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

We were talking about albums right? Thank you.

feeluupp said:

RODSERLING said:

It's not honest to say that, because while albums sell less, singles sell way more than ever. And Prince loses in both categories.

SO yes, Beyonce sells "only" 2 millions, but she sells maybe 20 millions digital singles worldwide a year, and hundred of billions of streaming on youtube.

And that's why I'm worried for Prince in terms of ALBUMS... Like I said yes he will keep touring he is the king at that... But with no social media prescence, ppl don't stream his music the way he should. No YouTube where the majority of music videos are viewed at these days means no promotion...

Since 2007 his record sales are at the LOWEST of his career... If Plectrum sells only 69K WorlWide what will his next album sell? Under 50,000? Then after that? Then how will he get any more deals to release albums??

Believe me, there is absolutely no reason for you to worry. Prince doesn't seem worried one bit and perhaps he finds it a little annoying that there are people out there that think he still has something to prove or to accomplish.

Think of it this ways: Prince thought very poorly of the majors 20 years ago. Now factor everything that happened to the recording industry since -- is it reasonable to think he's dying to be in the game in a pop superstar way, working hard to promote, spending money on promotion?

He's a well-off legend that enjoys his freedom, he doesn't want to be what you'd like him to be. He's fine, don't worry about him,.

Aerogram said:

feeluupp said:

And that's why I'm worried for Prince in terms of ALBUMS... Like I said yes he will keep touring he is the king at that... But with no social media prescence, ppl don't stream his music the way he should. No YouTube where the majority of music videos are viewed at these days means no promotion...

Since 2007 his record sales are at the LOWEST of his career... If Plectrum sells only 69K WorlWide what will his next album sell? Under 50,000? Then after that? Then how will he get any more deals to release albums??

Believe me, there is absolutely no reason for you to worry. Prince doesn't seem worried one bit and perhaps he finds it a little annoying that there are people out there that think he still has something to prove or to accomplish.

Think of it this ways: Prince thought very poorly of the majors 20 years ago. Now factor everything that happened to the recording industry since -- is it reasonable to think he's dying to be in the game in a pop superstar way, working hard to promote, spending money on promotion?

He's a well-off legend that enjoys his freedom, he doesn't want to be what you'd like him to be. He's fine, don't worry about him,.

Thank you. I agree with you actually, just was a little concerned when I saw the sales of Plectrum to be honest...

feeluupp said:

Question... The recent commercial failures of AOA and Plectrum... Do you think that will impact his future physical album releases??

Do you think Free Urself is going to be an independent release?

Do you think WB scratched the PR Deluxe reissue that was annoucned a year ago??

I think the albums did as well as they deserved, massive promotion or not. It's more about their content and relevance to the buying public than promotion, which I think were given a good shot, being that they were all over the music press, TV coverage and got very good reviews. Maybe they did not reach out to the majority of the buying public who just prefer his older stuff and dont care about any of his recent albums either. Prince has always got seriously good free publicity.

I really hope Free Urself is with WB and that it will be a good standing relationship rather than the one night stand type of deal he has done post WB. Otherwise what label would be interested in a single album deal knowing full well he would just mark his territory on them and move on regardless anyway. Why should they bother.

I think Prince's dithering scratched Deluxe, that would have been a money maker and WB knew it if they had put it out. There was genuine excitement about it and momentum (from the tour, the other 2 albums and the anniversary). An opportunity lost. And I dont think putting that out in the same year as AOA and PE would have harmed it, in fact those two should have been held back for Deluxe in July and them released towards the end of 2014.

I think indie releases are the way to go, particularly if we want a wide diversity of Prince material, including more 'experimental' stuff.

George Clinton and Larry Graham have both sucessfully been releasing music on indie labels and online. Prince could do the same if he wanted to, as he did with The Rainbow Children, NEWS, etc.

OperatingThetan said:

I think indie releases are the way to go, particularly if we want a wide diversity of Prince material, including more 'experimental' stuff.

George Clinton and Larry Graham have both sucessfully been releasing music on indie labels and online. Prince could do the same if he wanted to, as he did with The Rainbow Children, NEWS, etc.

Yep.

I can't help thinking of Bill Laswell, who was a fancied producer in the 80's then in the early 90's, once he was financially secure, turned his back to the majors to focus on more personal and experimental projects on smaller labels (including some he ran by himself), which didn't stop him from releasing an average of an album every 2-3 months ever since.

I hope Prince one day does that, just releasing the music by himself or with small labels, with maybe a more commercial album on a major every couple of years, but releasing more or less everything he records instead of keeping so much to himself. He still makes a lot of music available by comparison to most artists but too much of it is random streams and stand alone singles.

Aerogram said:

He's a well-off legend that enjoys his freedom, he doesn't want to be what you'd like him to be. He's fine, don't worry about him,.

I don't worry about Prince. I only worry about the great old vault music that I'm never going to hear (in the best quality).

GoldiesParade said:

feeluupp said:

Question... The recent commercial failures of AOA and Plectrum... Do you think that will impact his future physical album releases??

Do you think Free Urself is going to be an independent release?

Do you think WB scratched the PR Deluxe reissue that was annoucned a year ago??

I think the albums did as well as they deserved, massive promotion or not. It's more about their content and relevance to the buying public than promotion, which I think were given a good shot, being that they were all over the music press, TV coverage and got very good reviews. Maybe they did not reach out to the majority of the buying public who just prefer his older stuff and dont care about any of his recent albums either. Prince has always got seriously good free publicity.

I really hope Free Urself is with WB and that it will be a good standing relationship rather than the one night stand type of deal he has done post WB. Otherwise what label would be interested in a single album deal knowing full well he would just mark his territory on them and move on regardless anyway. Why should they bother.

I think Prince's dithering scratched Deluxe, that would have been a money maker and WB knew it if they had put it out. There was genuine excitement about it and momentum (from the tour, the other 2 albums and the anniversary). An opportunity lost. And I dont think putting that out in the same year as AOA and PE would have harmed it, in fact those two should have been held back for Deluxe in July and them released towards the end of 2014.

Thing is today, for the most part, majors don't support artists the way they used to: sales are lower so they need to make quick cash and for that reason they push only the most prefabricated, the most obvious, the most easy to grasp and, honestly, the most shitty artists. If Prince started his career today he'd never become as big as he was, because he'd never be able to whore the way you have to whore to make it to that level in 2015. There are a few exceptions, some new true artists still manage to sell big numbers, but the proportion is much lower than it was 20-40 years ago when lots of truly creative people like Prince, TTD, Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Bowie, Björk or Seal (to name a few) managed to top the charts, but I doubt any of them would make it today, at least to that level of success.

In that context I just can't resolve to blame the quality or relevance of Prince's albums (or anyone else's for that matter) for not being in the Top 40, not that it was always the good albums that sold (I could name several gems that failed miserably in the 80's or 90's), but the quality of the music did matter to some extent at the time, it doesn't anymore and I guess this is why I definitely turned my back on mainstream music and mostly enjoy small, less know artists and bands.

Consistent, well written critically acclaimed albums. That's what he needs.
Tour extensively for each album, and actually play the new songs from those albums.

This greatest hits nonsense he's been doing for the last million years will satisfy his

aging fanbase, but it's not going to earn him new fans.

He's really out of time at this point--he's almost 60. So, he really hs to do it now.


That being said, if Baltimore and the snippets from Free Urself are any indication,

it won't happen in this next release.

Also, music sales are down so much, I'm not sure what an artist like Prince can

really do with sales. Didn't Madonna's latest album fail to be a massive hit?

And, she promoted the crap out of that thing.

Pentacle said:

Aerogram said:

He's a well-off legend that enjoys his freedom, he doesn't want to be what you'd like him to be. He's fine, don't worry about him,.

I don't worry about Prince. I only worry about the great old vault music that I'm never going to hear (in the best quality).

This is, I would say, another issue. Prince could easily have his whole back catalogue available at least digitally, and release everything he records the same way but he obviously doesn't want to, regardless I think of sales (he would always make money, even if not too much, he couldn't possibly lose any money).

His attitude towards his back catalogue is likely an indication of how he feels about the vault, his past in general. However there's also the fact that he wasn't free to release any pre-96 vault material without WB. I wonder what is the status of the vault under the new agreement: can Prince now release vault material without WB or does he have to go through them?

In any case I think the new deal didn't change anything for us because Prince still feels he's tied to a label and he doesn't like that, and there's always the pending matter of the right to the masters of the few side projects WB owns (The Time's, Sheila's and The 6's albums).

One way or another, at some point Prince will finally regain total control of his WB catalogue, released and unreleased, and I think only then will we know whether he, yes or not, intends to do something with it or leave the whole thing out of print and, for the unreleased, rotting in the vault. This might take several more years, so we'd better be patient. I don't have too many expectations but from 97 to 2001 Prince seemed inclined to open the vault, so we'll see...

Blixical said:

Consistent, well written critically acclaimed albums. That's what he needs.
Tour extensively for each album, and actually play the new songs from those albums.

This greatest hits nonsense he's been doing for the last million years will satisfy his

aging fanbase, but it's not going to earn him new fans.

He's really out of time at this point--he's almost 60. So, he really hs to do it now.


That being said, if Baltimore and the snippets from Free Urself are any indication,

it won't happen in this next release.

Also, music sales are down so much, I'm not sure what an artist like Prince can

really do with sales. Didn't Madonna's latest album fail to be a massive hit?

And, she promoted the crap out of that thing.

Depends how u see it... But for today's age and declining sales, her album sold more than Prince's AOA and Plectrum totals combined injust her first week... Her album has sold over 650,000 copies sold so far...

[Edited 6/25/15 10:57am]

databank said:

Pentacle said:

I don't worry about Prince. I only worry about the great old vault music that I'm never going to hear (in the best quality).

This is, I would say, another issue. Prince could easily have his whole back catalogue available at least digitally, and release everything he records the same way but he obviously doesn't want to, regardless I think of sales (he would always make money, even if not too much, he couldn't possibly lose any money).

His attitude towards his back catalogue is likely an indication of how he feels about the vault, his past in general. However there's also the fact that he wasn't free to release any pre-96 vault material without WB. I wonder what is the status of the vault under the new agreement: can Prince now release vault material without WB or does he have to go through them?

In any case I think the new deal didn't change anything for us because Prince still feels he's tied to a label and he doesn't like that, and there's always the pending matter of the right to the masters of the few side projects WB owns (The Time's, Sheila's and The 6's albums).

One way or another, at some point Prince will finally regain total control of his WB catalogue, released and unreleased, and I think only then will we know whether he, yes or not, intends to do something with it or leave the whole thing out of print and, for the unreleased, rotting in the vault. This might take several more years, so we'd better be patient. I don't have too many expectations but from 97 to 2001 Prince seemed inclined to open the vault, so we'll see...

Yes. Paul McCartney's re-issue program is also pretty half-assed, but at least I have gotten to hear some great stuff before I've lost my hearing.

love2thenines2003 said:

Prince is dead in Studio as an Artist......hopes for physical releases from reissues is always a probability but I don't believe it anymore!

Of course I want more physical releases as well as reissues which he never does compared to other artists... I just felt 2010-2015 was hard times for Prince to get a proper distribution deal... And now since he finally resigned with WB I'm wondering what's next...

I think Prince's attitude to releasing music could be explained if we could first make sense of the fact that he records a great deal more music than he releases.

I wish he would do proper promotion

And AOA really sold only 170K worldwide?? It's sad because Lotus sold more than that in a single week... in US Target stores

I'm still excited for a new album, though. Hopefully he branches out and tries something different. But I have a feeling it'll be AOA II.

f*ck the "fans" who didnt buy AOA and PE.

nyse said:

Lotus flower was a triple album remember. 1 unit sold counts as 3

Yes but that's not how they counted the sales for THAT album.