I dont like the idea of Joshua Welton - lets get that out of the way right now. I have been with Prince since the first record. The greatest aspect of his artistry that made me a devoted fan over 35 years ago was the fact that Prince was the most self contained musical genius that we had ever seen - period. Even in accounting for all of his early collaborators and associates - from the mythical glorified (ie.Wendy and Lisa) to the undeservedly forgotten (ie.Dez Dickerson, Eric Leeds), it always came down to pure Prince - out front and fearless - doing what no one else had the imagination, talent, or the balls to do. He didnt really need anyone but chose to share certain parts on certain projects (The Time, Madhouse, The Family, Sheila E, Jill Jones, etc). His reliance on them was merely to be alternate faces and voices for him to forge his genius into several categories and directions at once. He always took some heat for that but his legendary cutting edge prolificacy was relentless - you didn't have to like it because in 6 months there would be something new that you would.

But that was then. Prince doesnt seem to do that anymore. Or at least not like he did through those vaunted Paisley Park Records era. Now it could be said that he is the venerable legend who has surrounded himself with youngsters of limited ability and charisma (at least in comparison to those early proteges of the 80s) in order to maintain some appeal in a business that worships youth - no matter how inferior and unsubstantial (I refrain from listing the many popular "artists" who fall into this category - I am sure you know who they are). Regardless of what you think of 3rdEyeGirl, if you have been an informed Prince fan for the last 20 years or so, you cant honestly name a prior Prince band that isnt better than them. That is not to say they have no skill and cant play.

I have yet to identify what Welton brings to Prince music other than his wife. There again, that is not to say he has no skill or talent. However, for me, it does raise a question: why? Why is he needed and what is it that he is supposed to bring to the table? Why does he get a credit next to Prince on a Prince album - an honor that no single person has ever had.

That is my question and that is also my rant, I suppose. Tired of typing now so there you go

FUNKYNESS said:

Why does he get a credit next to Prince on a Prince album - an honor that no single person has ever had.

Don't forget Kirky J's numerous co-productions on albums like Emancipation. What about Ricky Peterson's co-production credit on "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World"?

Do you enjoy "Kiss" any less knowing that it was almost entirely produced by David Z?

I personally enjoy what Josh is bringing to the table. There's a contemporary urgency to what he's bringing to the table, and I'm not sure we'd be hearing these snips of Prince working with the likes of Rita Ora, Kendrick Lamar etc without Josh's input.

The only thing undeniable about Joshua Welton is he'll be out of Prince's good graces before too long.

In regards to him using a younger producer to bring a 'newer' production feel to his work, maybe? But I really don't think Prince should worry about appealing to younger people like that. He already appeals to younger people like myself simply because of the sheer amount of music he has made already. I mean, no offense to the man- but he is 56 and had his days in the limelight. The majority of people in my age group don't tend to go around saying stuff like 'wow! I can't wait to hear the new Prince album! I bet it's going to sound really current and chart worthy!' it's more like (if they do like P) 'Hey I really like the album '1999'' or something like that.

I really, really , really like Josh. Becoming a Prince fan in 2013 im really glad I did in terms of the IMO crap that been pouring out since 2000 yes there have been a few gems here and there but I mean nothing great in consistency. AOA however is consistent in brilliance and that wouldn't be without the sound of Josh. People were saying its his best album since the gold experience and I completely agree

KingSausage said:

I'm a big fan of AOA, so I really appreciate the new sounds that Josh helped Prince create. I look forward to more collaborations. An earlier sign of Prince worrying about appealing to a younger crowd was his appearance on MTV's Total Request Live in 1999 to promote Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic.

I have a relationship with 2 former members of the "classic" period of the NPG and what they have heard is that Prince is in love with Josh, even more so than he is with Hannah. He sees another version of himself...like the kid he was in 1978. True Story.

He ain't going anywhere soon.

Militant said:

FUNKYNESS said:

Why does he get a credit next to Prince on a Prince album - an honor that no single person has ever had.

Don't forget Kirky J's numerous co-productions on albums like Emancipation. What about Ricky Peterson's co-production credit on "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World"?

Do you enjoy "Kiss" any less knowing that it was almost entirely produced by David Z?

I personally enjoy what Josh is bringing to the table. There's a contemporary urgency to what he's bringing to the table, and I'm not sure we'd be hearing these snips of Prince working with the likes of Rita Ora, Kendrick Lamar etc without Josh's input.

Beautiful GIRL was not a Prince album. Kirk was credited as assoicate producer - there is a difference. What exactly does Johua bring to the table? I have yet to hear a clear and concise theory - let alone some actual proven facts.

Gohi said:

The only thing undeniable about Joshua Welton is he'll be out of Prince's good graces before too long.

Indeed, along with 3rd, and I long for the day

Angelsoncrack said:

In regards to him using a younger producer to bring a 'newer' production feel to his work, maybe? But I really don't think Prince should worry about appealing to younger people like that. He already appeals to younger people like myself simply because of the sheer amount of music he has made already. I mean, no offense to the man- but he is 56 and had his days in the limelight. The majority of people in my age group don't tend to go around saying stuff like 'wow! I can't wait to hear the new Prince album! I bet it's going to sound really current and chart worthy!' it's more like (if they do like P) 'Hey I really like the album '1999'' or something like that.

That age comment is flawed in so many ways

I actually thing the 'youngsters' give Prince energy... But what do I know..I'm just a youngster.

What does Joshua's work for getting a show on the road (not just performin in it) have to do with a younger audience?

The first indication was Tony M.

ludwig said:

The first indication was Tony M.

.

In what way?

.

[Edited 5/31/15 5:20am]

.

[Edited 6/12/15 13:29pm]

FUNKYNESS said:

Angelsoncrack said:

In regards to him using a younger producer to bring a 'newer' production feel to his work, maybe? But I really don't think Prince should worry about appealing to younger people like that. He already appeals to younger people like myself simply because of the sheer amount of music he has made already. I mean, no offense to the man- but he is 56 and had his days in the limelight. The majority of people in my age group don't tend to go around saying stuff like 'wow! I can't wait to hear the new Prince album! I bet it's going to sound really current and chart worthy!' it's more like (if they do like P) 'Hey I really like the album '1999'' or something like that.

That age comment is flawed in so many ways

You mean the one about Princes age? How? I just mean that he has been extremely popular at one point (in the eighties and ninties) and that's what most people love him for. And there is not exactly many people over the age of 50 (in the charts) that are popular with younger people these days. It's people like Nicki Minaj that are in the charts and popular with young people these days.

Idk, to me it just seems like chart music today mostly goes off the artist themselves rather than the music. And Prince, a gracefully aging '80s and '90s icon wouldn't really appeal all that well because of his age?? I get the feeling that if he wrote for a younger person and then had them sing his songs the charts would love it more? Like how Mark Ronson got Bruno Mars to sing Uptown Funk. Bruno is young, attractive and already popular. Instant $$$.Thats just the impression I get, I might be wrong because I don't listen to chart music.

No. Josh wouldn't be within a 1,000 miles of Prince if he wasn't married 2 his current drummer.

udo said:

ludwig said:

The first indication was Tony M.

.

In what way?

He tried to incorporate rap in his music and his live shows, because young people love it. It was a desperate attempt to attract a younger audience.

[Edited 5/31/15 10:57am]

Graycap23 said:

No. Josh wouldn't be within a 1,000 miles of Prince if he wasn't married 2 his current drummer.

I can't avoid feeling the same way.

ludwig said:

udo said:

.

In what way?

Hey tried to incorporate rap in his music and his live shows, because young people love it. It was a desperate attempt to attract a younger audience.

[Edited 5/31/15 7:35am]

I remember that the same thought occured to me the day that first Prince record with rap on it was released. He was simply too original to follow the trend that every other R&B artist was following by forcing rap into their songs to get them on the radio - yet there it was. I was somewhat disappointed because Prince was too great and too special for that.

u got a few things wrong .. prince collaborations, credited and uncredited are the major source for his best work .. prince on his own is often stale safe and boring and it literally killed his recording career .. hannah is easily prince worse drummer ever ... josh on the other hand, managed to bring out some decent prince on aoa .. fnr, time, way back home and breakdown are his best songs in a long time .. again the collaborations with both josh and andy allo really brought something good to the mix .. aoa mastering and sounds are not great but still better than a few handfuls of prince records .. prince would be nothing without his collaborators and his music only rises with the quality of talent he works with .. he is out of ideas but can still hear and use a good idea he gets from someone else .. its too bad his pool is so limited due to his rediculous religious beliefs and sheltered and superficial lifestyle .. i dont think he is worried about the younger audience .. i think he just wants a credibly good album again and he's throwing whatever he can at the wall to hope it sticks .. and some of it has lately .. which is good ... but please give credit where credit is due ... josh got credit likely as a small step towards prince giving proper production credits which is unusial for this guy whos gemina dichotomy vasilates betwixt .. peace loving hippy and rich bloated egomaniac condescending womanizer. he doesnt care if his audience is old .. as long as his girlfriends are fresh out of diapers

Angelsoncrack said:

FUNKYNESS said:

That age comment is flawed in so many ways

You mean the one about Princes age? How? I just mean that he has been extremely popular at one point (in the eighties and ninties) and that's what most people love him for. And there is not exactly many people over the age of 50 (in the charts) that are popular with younger people these days. It's people like Nicki Minaj that are in the charts and popular with young people these days.

Idk, to me it just seems like chart music today mostly goes off the artist themselves rather than the music. And Prince, a gracefully aging '80s and '90s icon wouldn't really appeal all that well because of his age?? I get the feeling that if he wrote for a younger person and then had them sing his songs the charts would love it more? Like how Mark Ronson got Bruno Mars to sing Uptown Funk. Bruno is young, attractive and already popular. Instant $$$.Thats just the impression I get, I might be wrong because I don't listen to chart music.

Legendary artists that are older than Prince stil have loyal fanbases that buy the albums and concert tickets. And it is not all about $ and sales - somethinthg that the less unelingtened (which is usually spelled younger) generation has never understood. THis is especially true at the level that Prince has obtained. That is why he did things independently and embarked on projects like NEWS and Xpectation. Prince can live on the 80s catalog lieka boss for the rest of his life. Sure, I bet he wouldnt mind being "relelvant" (whatever that means for a legend) and he makes moves to get exposure but at the end of the day, without any charting singles or albums, Prince can still pack the house, turn out any award show full of his 'peers', and make people stop and look. Appeall to youth keeps him on TV when he wants to be on TV. It provides an avenue to launch new material. Younger people respect him greatly - including artists like Alicia Keys, Outkast,Questlove, Dangelo, and Janelle Monet. THat keeps him in the papers and gets his new material at least some expsoure to audience other than the AARP crowd. Prince, unlike almost all of his contemporaries, has the ability to appeal across several demogrpaics. Older fans come out because they still love his 70s and 80s catalog. By surrounding himself with these youngsters andstill sounding fresh, Prince is far from relegated to the old rock n roller home. He is out there still with kid s less than half his age.

tollyc said:

KingSausage said:

I'm a big fan of AOA, so I really appreciate the new sounds that Josh helped Prince create. I look forward to more collaborations. An earlier sign of Prince worrying about appealing to a younger crowd was his appearance on MTV's Total Request Live in 1999 to promote Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic.

I have a relationship with 2 former members of the "classic" period of the NPG and what they have heard is that Prince is in love with Josh, even more so than he is with Hannah. He sees another version of himself...like the kid he was in 1978. True Story.

He ain't going anywhere soon.

Im a big fan of AOA too, and I think while Josh has was beneficial for AOA - its not by any interesting or unique or groundbreaking use of tools that are available today. Prince told him what to do, and he did it. I'd rather Prince hook up with someone like William Orbit, who really took Madonna to an amazing level with Ray of Light.

and dear god I dont want to think he sees himself in Josh, that makes me sad.

terrig said:

I'd rather Prince hook up with someone like William Orbit, who really took Madonna to an amazing level with Ray of Light.

P already worked with Orbit.

William Orbit and Mark Moore (S'Express) did the official remix of "The Future" from the Batman soundtrack.

Militant said:

terrig said:

I'd rather Prince hook up with someone like William Orbit, who really took Madonna to an amazing level with Ray of Light.

P already worked with Orbit.

William Orbit and Mark Moore (S'Express) did the official remix of "The Future" from the Batman soundtrack.

I knew about that, but I mean more in the collaboration zone of an album. Did they do the remix and submit to Prince, or did they actually collaborate? I'd be interested to know how that happened....

Militant said:

terrig said:

I'd rather Prince hook up with someone like William Orbit, who really took Madonna to an amazing level with Ray of Light.

P already worked with Orbit.

William Orbit and Mark Moore (S'Express) did the official remix of "The Future" from the Batman soundtrack.

That doesn't mean that they worked together.

FUNKYNESS said:

Angelsoncrack said:

You mean the one about Princes age? How? I just mean that he has been extremely popular at one point (in the eighties and ninties) and that's what most people love him for. And there is not exactly many people over the age of 50 (in the charts) that are popular with younger people these days. It's people like Nicki Minaj that are in the charts and popular with young people these days.

Idk, to me it just seems like chart music today mostly goes off the artist themselves rather than the music. And Prince, a gracefully aging '80s and '90s icon wouldn't really appeal all that well because of his age?? I get the feeling that if he wrote for a younger person and then had them sing his songs the charts would love it more? Like how Mark Ronson got Bruno Mars to sing Uptown Funk. Bruno is young, attractive and already popular. Instant $$$.Thats just the impression I get, I might be wrong because I don't listen to chart music.

Legendary artists that are older than Prince stil have loyal fanbases that buy the albums and concert tickets. And it is not all about $ and sales - somethinthg that the less unelingtened (which is usually spelled younger) generation has never understood. THis is especially true at the level that Prince has obtained. That is why he did things independently and embarked on projects like NEWS and Xpectation. Prince can live on the 80s catalog lieka boss for the rest of his life. Sure, I bet he wouldnt mind being "relelvant" (whatever that means for a legend) and he makes moves to get exposure but at the end of the day, without any charting singles or albums, Prince can still pack the house, turn out any award show full of his 'peers', and make people stop and look. Appeall to youth keeps him on TV when he wants to be on TV. It provides an avenue to launch new material. Younger people respect him greatly - including artists like Alicia Keys, Outkast,Questlove, Dangelo, and Janelle Monet. THat keeps him in the papers and gets his new material at least some expsoure to audience other than the AARP crowd. Prince, unlike almost all of his contemporaries, has the ability to appeal across several demogrpaics. Older fans come out because they still love his 70s and 80s catalog. By surrounding himself with these youngsters andstill sounding fresh, Prince is far from relegated to the old rock n roller home. He is out there still with kid s less than half his age.

Ooooookay, you took my comment out of context. I was replying to the subject of this thread - if Prince is using a younger producer to appeal to todays generation, (to what my mind interpreted the question as 'by using Josh is he trying to make music that sounds like contemprary'). I'm fully aware that bands older than Prince have loyal fanbases that still attend shows and buy merch etc, heck, my own father is a lifelong Rush fan and has followed their every move since 1978. And I'm not saying that younger artists don't respect him either, I'm fully aware of that too. He inspires a lot of people. I don't know why you would think I was saying that.

In regards to your 'not all about the money' comment, yes it is. It's a buisness. Prince could afford to embark on projects like NEWS and Xpectiation, because in the year 2003 he was already a multi millionaire and still is. I highly doubt he was expecting to make mega bucks by distributing an album on the internet in 2003. Also, the fact that he released Musicology a year later, his most commercial and successful in years tells you something about that too.

KingSausage said:

I'm a big fan of AOA, so I really appreciate the new sounds that Josh helped Prince create.

Well said.

Militant said:

terrig said:

I'd rather Prince hook up with someone like William Orbit, who really took Madonna to an amazing level with Ray of Light.

P already worked with Orbit.

William Orbit and Mark Moore (S'Express) did the official remix of "The Future" from the Batman soundtrack.

And he also did the Batdance (Batmix) or am I wrong?

I love the remix of The Future...