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Thread started 06/12/15 2:42pm

KingSausage

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Rave Un2 -- one of Prince's most diverse albums?

I think Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic is one of Prince's most diverse albums ever. Hear me out. It has a newly unleashed 80's funk jam that sounds uniquely Princely (title track), a hard-edged funk jam (Undisputed), great R&B numbers, slow jams, a beautiful piano ballad, a shitty house number, a pointless 4-seconds of silence segue, an equally pointless 11-seconds (?) of orchestral prelude segue, a classic funk masterpiece (Strange But True), some rock numbers (So Far, Wherever U Go), a James Brown style funk workout, a goddamn hidden commercial, and so on.

Love it or hate it, Rave Un2 is super diverse and displayed the range of Prince's many styles.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #1 posted 06/12/15 2:47pm

purplemajesty2
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I agree with you but only if you replace un2 with in2 biggrin
[Edited 6/12/15 14:47pm]
Purple Music is my drug and I'm jonesin!!!!!
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Reply #2 posted 06/12/15 2:54pm

Militant

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moderator

Agreed.

I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.

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Reply #3 posted 06/12/15 2:58pm

KingSausage

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Militant said:

Agreed.



I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.




I TOTALLY agree. I've long been a Rave defender here on the Org. I think the man could write some mean melodies back then. There was no way the album was going to be a commercial hit. But I think it gets unfairly slagged by Prince fans. There are great gems all over it.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
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Reply #4 posted 06/12/15 2:58pm

purplemajesty2
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Militant said:

Agreed.



I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.



Exactly!
Purple Music is my drug and I'm jonesin!!!!!
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Reply #5 posted 06/12/15 6:05pm

warning2all

It follows the blueprint of "Sign o' The Times", to be a Mini-SOTT, but these songs don't hang together well. Some decent individual tracks.

It was a SOTT patchwork quilt of songs with a sticker like the Santana cd about guest performers, who were barely detectable.


Horrible artwork, Rave Sheep aside :)

Undisputed is one of the worst songs I ever heard, sorry
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Reply #6 posted 06/13/15 5:36pm

Se7en

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They're both gems.

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Reply #7 posted 06/13/15 7:11pm

FUNKYNESS

THe most diverse Prince album is Emancipation or Rainbow Children

Save America - Stop Illegal Immigration. God bless America. PEACE
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Reply #8 posted 06/14/15 4:00am

toejam

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Militant said:

Agreed.

I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.


nod

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
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Reply #9 posted 06/14/15 5:02am

dodger

toejam said:



Militant said:


Agreed.



I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.




nod



I recently listened to the Peach & Black Rave review - that was some revelation from Toejam about Strange But True being your favourite song ever!
.
Looking back on it, it is a real mixed bag, with some stinkers but I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore is one my favourite ever P songs.
[Edited 6/14/15 5:04am]
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Reply #10 posted 06/14/15 8:56am

Se7en

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FUNKYNESS said:

THe most diverse Prince album is Emancipation or Rainbow Children

Rainbow Children is not that diverse. It's all pretty consistent in a good way.

.

Emancipation, grading on diversity alone, would win that argument. R&B, funk, pop, rock, rap, even swing are represented on this album.

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Reply #11 posted 06/14/15 10:20am

kewlschool

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Militant said:

Agreed.

I also think, with a bit of trimming, better sequencing and mashing up the best of Un2 and In2, you've got a classic Prince album.

I've always felt the record is underrated and doesn't get it's due props.

I still don't like the versions of the songs on the album except prettyman and TGRES. Take for example I Love U, but I don't trust u anymore, I love the version he played in Montreux 2009. It was they way I in-visioned it when I first heard the song on the album.

99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment
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Reply #12 posted 06/16/15 8:55pm

ozone14

I think about half the album is pretty good. Nothing new or groundbreaking, but solid. I do love Tangerine tho....but half the tracks are a waste of 0's and 1's.

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Reply #13 posted 06/16/15 10:40pm

Toofunkyinhere

Really like the second half of the album particuarly, there are some real stunners on this record. I'd say Symbol is his most diverse album though

We're here, might as well get into it.
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Reply #14 posted 06/17/15 5:30am

novabrkr

It's just unfocused.

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Reply #15 posted 06/17/15 6:27am

peedub

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this isn't one that i often play start to finish, a la lovesexy or parade, but i do think its a pretty fun album with some maybe skippable moments. definitely some solid tracks, 'the greatest romance....' and 'the sun, the moon and stars' among them.

plus, you get 'in2' and the pretty solid remixes of 'the greatest romance...' with alot of extra guitar work? sold.

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Reply #16 posted 06/17/15 6:31am

aaroncanderson

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I agree that all the above albums are pretty diverse. Prince rarely puts out an album that doesn't have at least 2 or 3 different genres of music. Hell even his debut For You had 3. But I submit that Controversy is his most diverse album ever. No two songs are from the same genre. It's easy to classify it as a funk rock album but it is more complex than that. Here's the evidence:

1. Controversy - A straight up laid back Pfunk-rock groove, Parliment inspired goodness complete with the Lord's prayer. How often to you hear that in a pop song?

2. Sexuality - Acid funk with new wave sensibilities thrown in and if that weren't enough he throws in 3 different choruses.

3. Do Me, Baby - Old school R&B drop your drawers and make a baby music, with argulaby the 3 most uncomfortable minutes of recorded music even to be recorded.

4. Private Joy - Prince's best Devo impression and he nails it!

5. Ronnie, Talk to Russia - If someone can tell me what genre of music this is I would appreciate it. The only percussion in this song are synthetic gun shots. This song is so brilliant.

6. Let's Work - James Brown funk. To me this and Jack U Off are the only songs that are sorta similar.

7. Annie Christian - Dark psychedelic rock that the Beatles would kill to make.

8. Jack U Off - James Brown and Rockabilly had a baby called Jack U Off.

Controversy is a very strange album but it is true that it's the Purple Yoda's most diverse album. Can you think of another one where every song is from a different genre? Please someone, what genre is Ronnie, Talk to Russia?!!!

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Reply #17 posted 06/17/15 11:18am

novabrkr

The views on what people consider the good tracks on this album seem to be just as divided as the case is with Emancipation. Or even moreso, as there seems to be no consensus whatsover on what the good ones really are.

For example, I think "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" is one of the worst pieces of music he's ever done, but I do like "The Sun, The Moon and Stars" a whole lot and have seen quite a few orgers saying it's bad.

Not so much the case with NPS, where most people seem to agree what the standout tracks are ("The One", "Come On", "Wasted Kisses").

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Reply #18 posted 06/17/15 4:05pm

Aerogram

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novabrkr said:

The views on what people consider the good tracks on this album seem to be just as divided as the case is with Emancipation. Or even moreso, as there seems to be no consensus whatsover on what the good ones really are.

For example, I think "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" is one of the worst pieces of music he's ever done, but I do like "The Sun, The Moon and Stars" a whole lot and have seen quite a few orgers saying it's bad.

Not so much the case with NPS, where most people seem to agree what the standout tracks are ("The One", "Come On", "Wasted Kisses").

That's because NPS was so boringly conventional -- so the few decent tracks were shining. It's underprocessed Prince, so the properly processed tracks stand out.

Rave is an overprocessed album -- but still starts out with one of the most irritating songs of his career. Man, when I bought the Rave DVD, I hated that the menu played the opening chant of that song, I always hit mute before or as soon as I could. Some songs sound ok now but there's just very little that could not have stayed in his vault. TGRES is just too overearnest and sweet, but with lyrics you can't connect to. Undisputed and Hot wit U are too plastic -- So Far So Pleased almost gets there but ends up sounding to calculated, like Prince was really trying too hard to be catchy -- it's the same problem with Baby Knows, though the former is better.

It's almost like on Rave, true musicality only surfaces here and there, asphixiated by Prince's idea of what people want to hear from him.

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Reply #19 posted 06/17/15 4:18pm

KingSausage

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Aerogram said:



novabrkr said:


The views on what people consider the good tracks on this album seem to be just as divided as the case is with Emancipation. Or even moreso, as there seems to be no consensus whatsover on what the good ones really are.

For example, I think "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" is one of the worst pieces of music he's ever done, but I do like "The Sun, The Moon and Stars" a whole lot and have seen quite a few orgers saying it's bad.

Not so much the case with NPS, where most people seem to agree what the standout tracks are ("The One", "Come On", "Wasted Kisses").




That's because NPS was so boringly conventional -- so the few decent tracks were shining. It's underprocessed Prince, so the properly processed tracks stand out.



Rave is an overprocessed album -- but still starts out with one of the most irritating songs of his career. Man, when I bought the Rave DVD, I hated that the menu played the opening chant of that song, I always hit mute before or as soon as I could. Some songs sound ok now but there's just very little that could not have stayed in his vault. TGRES is just too overearnest and sweet, but with lyrics you can't connect to. Undisputed and Hot wit U are too plastic -- So Far So Pleased almost gets there but ends up sounding to calculated, like Prince was really trying too hard to be catchy -- it's the same problem with Baby Knows, though the former is better.



It's almost like on Rave, true musicality only surfaces here and there, asphixiated by Prince's idea of what people want to hear from him.




Wow. This might be the ONLY case in which Aerogram is more negative about Prince than I am. I love Rave.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #20 posted 06/17/15 5:58pm

BigChick

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My thing with the album is more so the sense of direction. Not just music wise but image wise as well. He had more promo shots done by Steve Parke for that album, than pretty much any Prince album project. All with some pretty different looks and outfits. The goofiest one being the photo shoot with him and the parrots. I know im not really focusing on the music but it's just an example of how that album project was all over the place. Once Prince started playing sour grapes with Clive Davis, it just completely killed the project pretty much before it even came out. Had he prepared videos and singles in advance akin to "Diamonds and Pearls", "Rave" could've fared alot better. The other thing is I've always found that when Prince performs new material, it really breathes life into the songs. I enjoyed the Rave period but at the same time I was disappointed in it. I was so bummed watching the "Rave" pay-per view special. He could barely muster a performance of two songs off of the album. And what a year to capitalize on being Prince. "1999". He could've had a huge year on default alone. And i'm sorry but the outtakes for that album are horrible. People cite "Jughead" as being criminal but "Why Should I Do That". It should've been titled "Why Did I Record This". I guess it was a hit with Londell McMillian. At least he's not name checking lawyers in songs anymore. Cross your fingers for now.

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Reply #21 posted 06/18/15 10:41am

SchlomoThaHomo

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I have to agree with the severe lack of direction. Yes, the album is very diverse, but in more of an all-over-the-place kind of way, and not a look-at-the-breadth-of-my-talent kind of way. The songs do sound very different from each other but is the quality high?


Songs like Hot Wit U, with the Tinker Toy beats, and no real groove. The Sun, The Moon, and Stars, more Tinker Toy beats, and a vocal melody so corny, that it makes you want to put your fist through something glass (and then you listen long enough to hear the rap, and you find yourself in the ER getting stitches). Tangerine almost takes me there as well, but luckily it's over quickly. Everyday Is..., I can't even finish typing it out because it makes me so despondent. Undisputed, and this talk of getting rowdy? Not while I'm staring at a picture of a man in a blue vinyl cat suit, with matching bows in his hair. Silly Game is so bland that it could have happened, or not happened, and the world would be equally unaware. Wherever U Go is pure trickery because the cool Linn beat has you thinking you're about to get something akin to Forever In My Life, and then you don't. "Remember when U were children, U had toys?" Yes. Remember when you stole them from my mom's attic and recorded Hot Wit U and The Sun, The Moon, and Stars?


Also, the fact that Prince thought the title track belonged, in any way, shape, or form, with the other songs on the album, is mystifying. The song itself is kind of cool in a "Kiss" sort of way, but is ultimitely ruined by the corny laser effects and general shoddy sound.


The most strange thing to me is that this song, which sounds so very dated, and probably already sounded dated two weeks after it was recorded, was plucked out of '88, and stuck into '99, with nearly zero touch-ups, as if he had listened to it and thought, "Wow. This is completely timeless." exclaim


TGRES is kind of cool in a pedestrian, non-offensive sort of way. Baby Knows and So Far So Pleased feel both catchy and calculated simultaneously. I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore might have been better if it were surrounded by more sincere-sounding songs, but in the context of the album it feels like "HERE IS THE PIANO BALLAD - NOW CRY TEARS." I was obsessed with Man 'O' War for quite some time, though I rarely listen to it anymore. Probably burn out. Prettyman was kind of amusing when I saw him do it at Mill City, but on record it seems forced. Strange But True is interesting, and does kind of get cooking by the end, but it doesn't really move me.


That's the real problem with this album for me. I feel unmoved. Which makes me feel like Prince was unmoved when he recorded it. Somehow, something misfired, and the passion didn't translate.

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #22 posted 06/18/15 12:41pm

Miles

I agree that Rave is one of Prince's underrated albums. There are one or two weak links and I was a bit disappointed with it when it first came out, but for me, the album improves with age and with a slightly revised tracklist/ order, it starts to sound like a pretty decent album, in tune with its times, but redolent of his 80s golden era.

My favourate tracks are probably Pretty Man, the title track and Strange But True (a cool, fascinating curio and I wish he had moved further into that slightly darker, edgier sound in his following works. It shows his continuing willingness to experiment sonically). I guess he did Silicon, but for me that doesn't really work.


aaroncanderson said:

Annie Christian - Dark psychedelic rock that the Beatles would kill to make.

Slipping a little OT for a moment - You make some good points but this just jumped out at me. I love this track and view it as one of Prince's under-rated mini-masterpieces, but saying the above when the song refers to the murder of John Lennon struck me as interesting smile .

[Edited 6/18/15 12:47pm]

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Reply #23 posted 06/18/15 12:52pm

KingSausage

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SchlomoThaHomo said:

I have to agree with the severe lack of direction. Yes, the album is very diverse, but in more of an all-over-the-place kind of way, and not a look-at-the-breadth-of-my-talent kind of way. The songs do sound very different from each other but is the quality high?




Songs like Hot Wit U, with the Tinker Toy beats, and no real groove. The Sun, The Moon, and Stars, more Tinker Toy beats, and a vocal melody so corny, that it makes you want to put your fist through something glass (and then you listen long enough to hear the rap, and you find yourself in the ER getting stitches). Tangerine almost takes me there as well, but luckily it's over quickly. Everyday Is..., I can't even finish typing it out because it makes me so despondent. Undisputed, and this talk of getting rowdy? Not while I'm staring at a picture of a man in a blue vinyl cat suit, with matching bows in his hair. Silly Game is so bland that it could have happened, or not happened, and the world would be equally unaware. Wherever U Go is pure trickery because the cool Linn beat has you thinking you're about to get something akin to Forever In My Life, and then you don't. "Remember when U were children, U had toys?" Yes. Remember when you stole them from my mom's attic and recorded Hot Wit U and The Sun, The Moon, and Stars?




Also, the fact that Prince thought the title track belonged, in any way, shape, or form, with the other songs on the album, is mystifying. The song itself is kind of cool in a "Kiss" sort of way, but is ultimitely ruined by the corny laser effects and general shoddy sound.




The most strange thing to me is that this song, which sounds so very dated, and probably already sounded dated two weeks after it was recorded, was plucked out of '88, and stuck into '99, with nearly zero touch-ups, as if he had listened to it and thought, "Wow. This is completely timeless." exclaim




TGRES is kind of cool in a pedestrian, non-offensive sort of way. Baby Knows and So Far So Pleased feel both catchy and calculated simultaneously. I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore might have been better if it were surrounded by more sincere-sounding songs, but in the context of the album it feels like "HERE IS THE PIANO BALLAD - NOW CRY TEARS." I was obsessed with Man 'O' War for quite some time, though I rarely listen to it anymore. Probably burn out. Prettyman was kind of amusing when I saw him do it at Mill City, but on record it seems forced. Strange But True is interesting, and does kind of get cooking by the end, but it doesn't really move me.




That's the real problem with this album for me. I feel unmoved. Which makes me feel like Prince was unmoved when he recorded it. Somehow, something misfired, and the passion didn't translate.




As a Rave fan, I'm both hurt inside by your hate for the album AND busting up laughing. Well said.

(Also, Mill City was pretty awesome. I had a great time.)
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #24 posted 06/18/15 1:57pm

SchlomoThaHomo

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KingSausage said:


As a Rave fan, I'm both hurt inside by your hate for the album AND busting up laughing. Well said. (Also, Mill City was pretty awesome. I had a great time.)

lol Sorry about that. I intended it mostly as faux hatred for humor's sake, but upon re-reading, it was a little harsh.


And YES, Mill City was a great time. I think that's the only time I've seen him outdoors. And the Minneapolis backdrop added a level of poignancy, especially during the Purple Rain songs, as First Ave. was like right there. Oh, and Mayte! I think that was the last time I saw them on stage together. Ah, memories...

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #25 posted 06/18/15 3:14pm

KingSausage

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SchlomoThaHomo said:



KingSausage said:



As a Rave fan, I'm both hurt inside by your hate for the album AND busting up laughing. Well said. (Also, Mill City was pretty awesome. I had a great time.)

lol Sorry about that. I intended it mostly as faux hatred for humor's sake, but upon re-reading, it was a little harsh.




And YES, Mill City was a great time. I think that's the only time I've seen him outdoors. And the Minneapolis backdrop added a level of poignancy, especially during the Purple Rain songs, as First Ave. was like right there. Oh, and Mayte! I think that was the last time I saw them on stage together. Ah, memories...



Opening with SOTT was awesome.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #26 posted 06/18/15 3:40pm

SchlomoThaHomo

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KingSausage said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

lol Sorry about that. I intended it mostly as faux hatred for humor's sake, but upon re-reading, it was a little harsh.


And YES, Mill City was a great time. I think that's the only time I've seen him outdoors. And the Minneapolis backdrop added a level of poignancy, especially during the Purple Rain songs, as First Ave. was like right there. Oh, and Mayte! I think that was the last time I saw them on stage together. Ah, memories...

Opening with SOTT was awesome.

YES! And didn't he go right into ICNTTPOYM? I'm remembering looking at the suspended symbol with the clouds moving behind it, hearing those songs, and thinking it was so surreal. Shit, I'm going to hunt down the boot for that show. I hope there's one out there.

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #27 posted 06/18/15 3:48pm

Aerogram

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KingSausage said:

Aerogram said:

That's because NPS was so boringly conventional -- so the few decent tracks were shining. It's underprocessed Prince, so the properly processed tracks stand out.

Rave is an overprocessed album -- but still starts out with one of the most irritating songs of his career. Man, when I bought the Rave DVD, I hated that the menu played the opening chant of that song, I always hit mute before or as soon as I could. Some songs sound ok now but there's just very little that could not have stayed in his vault. TGRES is just too overearnest and sweet, but with lyrics you can't connect to. Undisputed and Hot wit U are too plastic -- So Far So Pleased almost gets there but ends up sounding to calculated, like Prince was really trying too hard to be catchy -- it's the same problem with Baby Knows, though the former is better.

It's almost like on Rave, true musicality only surfaces here and there, asphixiated by Prince's idea of what people want to hear from him.

Wow. This might be the ONLY case in which Aerogram is more negative about Prince than I am. I love Rave.

Not really because we already established I rank his post-Warner albums lower than you do in general.

I guess I'm supportive of his process and don't want to get too personal about it, but when it comes to the music I'm not as much of a real fanboy than you are deep down. This is great fun. smile

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Reply #28 posted 06/18/15 5:17pm

KingSausage

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SchlomoThaHomo said:



KingSausage said:


SchlomoThaHomo said:


lol Sorry about that. I intended it mostly as faux hatred for humor's sake, but upon re-reading, it was a little harsh.




And YES, Mill City was a great time. I think that's the only time I've seen him outdoors. And the Minneapolis backdrop added a level of poignancy, especially during the Purple Rain songs, as First Ave. was like right there. Oh, and Mayte! I think that was the last time I saw them on stage together. Ah, memories...



Opening with SOTT was awesome.

YES! And didn't he go right into ICNTTPOYM? I'm remembering looking at the suspended symbol with the clouds moving behind it, hearing those songs, and thinking it was so surreal. Shit, I'm going to hunt down the boot for that show. I hope there's one out there.




I went to the show with a friend of a friend who videotaped the whole thing. The VHS is somewhere in my parents' basement. I never heard an audio boot of it, but i wish there was one!
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #29 posted 06/18/15 5:18pm

KingSausage

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Aerogram said:



KingSausage said:


Aerogram said:



That's because NPS was so boringly conventional -- so the few decent tracks were shining. It's underprocessed Prince, so the properly processed tracks stand out.



Rave is an overprocessed album -- but still starts out with one of the most irritating songs of his career. Man, when I bought the Rave DVD, I hated that the menu played the opening chant of that song, I always hit mute before or as soon as I could. Some songs sound ok now but there's just very little that could not have stayed in his vault. TGRES is just too overearnest and sweet, but with lyrics you can't connect to. Undisputed and Hot wit U are too plastic -- So Far So Pleased almost gets there but ends up sounding to calculated, like Prince was really trying too hard to be catchy -- it's the same problem with Baby Knows, though the former is better.



It's almost like on Rave, true musicality only surfaces here and there, asphixiated by Prince's idea of what people want to hear from him.




Wow. This might be the ONLY case in which Aerogram is more negative about Prince than I am. I love Rave.


Not really because we already established I rank his post-Warner albums lower than you do in general.



I guess I'm supportive of his process and don't want to get too personal about it, but when it comes to the music I'm not as much of a real fanboy than you are deep down. This is great fun. smile







cool
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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