I have always thought of Prince as an undergraound artist that hit it "big" a few times. Prince's approach and behavior (musically) is much more closely aligned with an underground artist than that of a "pop" star. There are certain expectations or requirements that a Pop star must adhere 2, if they intend on making it big and staying there. Look at how many times Prince could have capitalized on a so called big moment in his career where he turned around and did the exact opposite of what a "pop" star is supposed 2 do. He will only play the game so far before he bucks the system. It is like he simply can't help himself. This bucking of the system is probably the very reason that Prince is living the lifestyle that he does. Anyone who argues that the man hasn't been true 2 himself just simply isn't paying attention.

Could he have done things different? Maybe..........but every single human breathing can make that statement, so I'm not sure how much weight that carries.

All of these folks crying about the moves that he has or hasn't made need 2 check themselves.

It is his life, his career and his art and I've appreciated the last the last 37 years 4 what it is.............not 4 what it isn't.

BartVanHemelen said:

blackbob said:

not that many artists are truly known worldwide...

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Nonsense. Plenty are.

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No he wasn't.

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what makes you think he wants to try and go back there ?...i am sure he would like a hit record but i get the impression he doesnt really want to do the work required to have one..

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So you admit that he wants to be a pop star.

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

of course he has had periods in his career where he hasnt been in the spotlight or had hit records...but during the 80s he was one of the biggest stars on the planet...an almost consistant presence on radio and tv during that time...to call someone who is one of the best selling artists of all time "underground" is a bit far fetched imo...most people know who prince is...he may be making a good job of making himself invisible to people under 25 with his stance on mass media in the modern world but older people know who he is even if its just for purple rain and 1999...

Not underground, just really short.

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Prince is usually called a pop singer. I already made a post asking would people consider him goth, and now I'm asking - would you consider him as underground? I mean, when you think about it - a lot of his songs are not well known to the public, the way he treats his fans, not caring about view counts... what do you think?

Businesswise Prince has always been mainstream, at least until he started to work with very small labels (2000) or selling directly to fans (as early as 93), he started with a major label and even Dirty Mind, underground as it was in spirit, was a major's product, distributed through mainstream channels.

No when it comes to the "in spirit" part, I'd say Prince has always managed to be underground and mainstream, sometimes one after the other, sometimes altogether. Some of Prince's most successful songs/albums were very edgy and had an experimental or avant-garde side to them. But the next thing you know he'd release a radio-friendly pop-song (that, by the way, might sometimes enjoy less success than the big stuff). He'd release I Wanna Be Your Lover and a year after he'd release Uptown.

Even lately he'd still do this, he'd release an oddity such as N.E.W.S that'd antagonize most mainstream listeners, then release very accessible albums such as Musicology and 3121. I think some of 3EG's most garage concerts with mostly obscure tracks opposed to their broadway like NPG shows counterpart express this dychotomy pretty well.

So yeah, Prince is underground. And yeah, Prince is mainstream. This balance has proven hard to maintain, and hasn't always been a very easy to maintain business strategy. However, it allowed him to remain a hipsters' favorite as well as to fill large venues all throughout his career.

Let us also keep in mind that "undergound music" is a term that has no definitive, objective meaning, and that there is no absolute consensus about its true meaning, particularly in the digital age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music).

VelvetKittyKat said:

Not underground, just really short.

Well, in a way he still has been (underground AND short).
He may be the most popular underground artist,
if that makes any sense.

"1999" is pretty underground (SITW, ATCLUINY) to me, and so are "Erotic City", "Hello", "Shockadelica"...

If by "underground" we mean an artistic expression which does not go for the easy (and commercial) path.

GB and D&P is basically Prince fooling himself into believing he has become a popular artist.
But he never truly was.

We Prince zealots are like the early adopters of the mac: it sells because we believe in it,
we buy it, and we do a lot of promotion to our friends, families, nobodies...

But thank God we never got an iPhone equivalent.
Having Prince become the world's number one pop artist would mean the world has come to an end.

i wish he was more "underground" ...he always keeps "pop"ing up every few years

Graycap23 said:

Anyone who argues that the man hasn't been true 2 himself just simply isn't paying attention.

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So I guess you didn't read the liner notes of TGE, then.

blackbob said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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So you admit that he wants to be a pop star.

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

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I suggest you learn the difference between "planet" and "USA".

BartVanHemelen said:

blackbob said:

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

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I suggest you learn the difference between "planet" and "USA".

america is a very large part of the record buying world bart...the album and singles were huge everywhere..but we will need to agree to disagree then.

blackbob said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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So you admit that he wants to be a pop star.

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

from May 1984 (when When doves cry came out) to April 1985 (the end of the PR tour in Miami just before ATWIAD came out) there was no other artist had a combination of what it takes to be consider the biggest pop/rock star on the planet at any given time - based on the core metrics of:

- selling the most records

- domintating the airwaves and MTV type shows

- having the most hits (for himself and others)

- selling the most concert tickets

- having as many magazine covers and column inches

for this year period he was the biggest pop/rock star on the planet

mattosgood said:

blackbob said:

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

from May 1984 (when When doves cry came out) to April 1985 (the end of the PR tour in Miami just before ATWIAD came out) there was no other artist had a combination of what it takes to be consider the biggest pop/rock star on the planet at any given time - based on the core metrics of:

- selling the most records

- domintating the airwaves and MTV type shows

- having the most hits (for himself and others)

- selling the most concert tickets

- having as many magazine covers and column inches

for this year period he was the biggest pop/rock star on the planet

spot on ....and as soon as he made the musical left turn that was the atwiad album...his sales dropped from ten million to three million in the usa and he left the top spot for mj and madonna to fight over while he took a more artistic route with atwiad..parade and sign o the times albums...still sold millions of albums but nowhere near the level of purple rain..

[Edited 4/28/15 6:17am]

blackbob said:

mattosgood said:

from May 1984 (when When doves cry came out) to April 1985 (the end of the PR tour in Miami just before ATWIAD came out) there was no other artist had a combination of what it takes to be consider the biggest pop/rock star on the planet at any given time - based on the core metrics of:

- selling the most records

- domintating the airwaves and MTV type shows

- having the most hits (for himself and others)

- selling the most concert tickets

- having as many magazine covers and column inches

for this year period he was the biggest pop/rock star on the planet

spot on ....and as soon as he made the musical left turn that was the atwiad album...his sales dropped from ten million to three million in the usa and he left the top spot for mj and madonna to fight over while he took a more artistic route with atwiad..parade and sign o the times albums...still sold millions of albums but nowhere near the level of purple rain..

[Edited 4/28/15 6:17am]

true, but Prince was still HUGE even then into 1986

I would say no - with the only possible exception being the late 90s/early 00s. Post-Emancipation/CB and pre-Musicology, also containing the NPGMC years.

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Some have called these the "lost years", but even at this time he had a major label album with Rave.

Se7en said:

mattosgood said:

blackbob said:

so are you saying that prince wasnt the biggest pop star on the planet after purple rain was released ?..who was bigger in late 84..85 ?...yes you could argue mj but michael jackson released an album and was touring with the jacksons during that time and neither got anywhere near the success of prince's album and tour during that time period....to me...he was the biggest pop star on the planet at that time..and of course prince is a pop star.

from May 1984 (when When doves cry came out) to April 1985 (the end of the PR tour in Miami just before ATWIAD came out) there was no other artist had a combination of what it takes to be consider the biggest pop/rock star on the planet at any given time - based on the core metrics of:

- selling the most records

- domintating the airwaves and MTV type shows

- having the most hits (for himself and others)

- selling the most concert tickets

- having as many magazine covers and column inches

for this year period he was the biggest pop/rock star on the planet

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Ignoring for instance someone who actually toured all over the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/w....S.A._Tour . See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ours#1980s .

I don't think he truly is an underground artist, he's one of the most famous performers of all time!

But he does play one from time to time.

KingSausage said:

Se7en said:

I would say no - with the only possible exception being the late 90s/early 00s. Post-Emancipation/CB and pre-Musicology, also containing the NPGMC years.

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Some have called these the "lost years", but even at this time he had a major label album with Rave.

I was trying to describe those years to my wife the other day. I was mocked by friends for liking Prince then. I liked him after and before he was cool!

I laugh a little bit when people say "I have always loved Prince" and then rattle off songs they love with the most recent being "7" or even "Batdance". Nothing for the past 20 years.

Se7en said:

def underground in 1980 until the "half naked tour" affair

def underground in 2001-2003

the rest pretty much in the spotlight, even with "low" sales (c&d, come, etc)

now it's pretty much done