I agree with you. If we are talking about MAINSTREAM Prince... Honestly I can only say Purple Rain era and Diamonds and Pearls era were his real mainstream appeal to the public.
Even with albums like 1999 selling over 6M it didn't start to sell that well until after Purple Rain was released and exposed Prince to the world.
Batman was more succesfull due to the movie and the fans of the film buying that album then the general music audience.
Purple Rain he was everwhere, tours, sales, etc... Diamonds and Pearls was his last real mainstream appeal, even with the surface of grunge, hip hop and house music being the popularity during that time Prince still was very commercial that year. With tv appearcnes, Arsenio Hall, MTV music awards, soul train award honor, selling over 6.7m copies, the tour, another #1 hit with Cream, etc... | |
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First you say it's the drugs, then you admit you don't have a shred of evidence, then to top it all you argue that Prince was never that big with mainstream audiences, when in fact he's the only person to place a single, an album AND a movie at the top of the charts in the same week. The album stayed there for the better part of a whole year. I wonder which non-mainstream audience kept it there.
Polo1026 got it exactly right, read his post again and weep.
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Prince's last real Platinum album was the Love Symbol album which sold around 1.2M in the U.S. alone.
After that he never had a real Platinum album based on sales that was not a Hits compilation or a Very Best of album. Come, Gold, Chaos, Emancipation, NPS, Rave, Rainbow Children... All never made the Platinum mark... Even Musicology was certified 2x Platinum in the U.S. due to more of the concert give aways that were included in the "sales"... | |
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Prince decline in sales is very much a natural aspect of pop music, you can deny it but it happens to the vast majority of recording artists.
Artistically, completely dismissing Prince after Lovesexy is the height of superficiality because you just stick the safest canon, people do that all the time. "Only the early stuff" is such a cliché, it's the laziest view to take in most cases, you hear that all the time about scores of artists and people who say those things are probably the same ones you can fool with McDonald food at a foodie convention if you first slice the Happy Meal artistically then call it organic.
Fact is Prince went on to write many great songs after Lovesexy, right up to his latest effort, Art Official Age.
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Wasting your status for short term pandering is ultimately a hocking of diminishing returns. He may have pandered with Diamonds and Pearls and made short term cash flow, but turned a lot of hard core fans off in the process. There is a more lasting value in the lesser selling 80's albums than symbol or d&p. No one sees those as artistic treasures. It did taint his reputation. Those who bought purple rain and sott were never fooled again subsequently. It will take a truly killer album to wipe that taste of many consumers. For his new studio albums at least.. | |
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it wasnt to a specific entity....just in general | |
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if u think purple rain is his best stuff ..u shouldnt be on here | |
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That's true - and, ultimately, that is kind of the main story. I suppose I wonder why, unlike some other artists, he never really had a 'second coming', even with stuff that only fans were listening to, but which felt like he was really inspired again. Some singers get a new method, or find some new musicians that really contribute something new to their sound - say, like Paul Simon finding African music and a new way of composing songs, after having been a bit washed-up in the early 80s. [Edited 4/9/15 16:15pm] "Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin | |
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I agree with 98% of this with the exception of religion. Prince has been on the religious/spiritual side from day one but he never let it taint his art, at least not 2 me. As of 1996, once he converted to J.W. he has self censored his own art the point that even the hard core fans has gotten bored with it on some level. It's like a ball player playing with one hand behind his back and trying 2 complete as if he is playing with both hands. If u read or listen 2 his lyrics pre 1996 vs post 1996, it is so obvious that a blind man can see the difference. FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent. | |
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Prince already told ya'll on theTavis Smiley show back in 1998.. After a while its all just OLD skin!
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Prince did indeed write many great songs after Lovesexy no doubt... However personally I can never compare all those other albums he released to anything of his "early stuff" cause it's just transparent... The genius and brilliance of those early albums to his other works...
I always like to compare this to fighting, it's like seeing the old boxers back in the day after they pass their prime the fact is they are just not as good as they once were. Prince's prime was his 80's albums. Yes he made some great songs, some decent albums after Lovesexy... But none can hold up to the GENIUS that he became credited for. | |
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The decline started with "Diamonds and Pearls" when he put out there: "Modern-Day Mozart". With that, he was telling the world that he was a "Genius". With that, he thought that anything he released was worthy. With that era, he was no longer hungry- but started acting like an angry, spoiled child with a $100 Million Dollar Contract--delivering "Contractual Obligation" albums thereby deliberately shortchanging Warners and his record buying following. I dont blame anyone for not buying Prince albums ever since. In reality- he should have always given his best and realized how fortunate he was in this world to have the opprutunity to release albums to people supporting him. Once he got his "Emancipation"- "free to do what I want to". By that point- he'd alienated too many people and more and more and more weaker tracks appeared on albums with this so called "emancipation" that it just became obivious he peaked as a creative Songwriter. Now hes just about Power. Control. Ego. Somebody needs to tell him hes an oldies act who doesnt sell albums- dont blame Warner (AOA). | |
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the reason is obvious. He's burnt out. It happens to all artists no matter how great you are. Look at what happened to Stevie Wonder. Another contributing factor is his partial hearing loss. he must have tinnitus something awful | |
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Yeah, I think you bring up some important points here. RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... | |
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If you really believe that Prince's music is still as good as it used to be, then I can't help you... Stop the Prince Apologists ™ | |
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Oh commercially sure, but I don't really care how well prince does sales-wise anymore, he's had his moment in the pop sun. His age will always factor in his music, but it's not an excuse for having nothing to say about the world. | |
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Graycap23 said:
I agree with 98% of this with the exception of religion. Prince has been on the religious/spiritual side from day one but he never let it taint his art, at least not 2 me. As of 1996, once he converted to J.W. he has self censored his own art the point that even the hard core fans has gotten bored with it on some level. It's like a ball player playing with one hand behind his back and trying 2 complete as if he is playing with both hands. If u read or listen 2 his lyrics pre 1996 vs post 1996, it is so obvious that a blind man can see the difference. Prior to the mid 90s Prince was never religious, he was spiritual. Big difference! He did not appear to subscribe to any specific dogma but instead just embraced God while also embracing what it means to be human. Most religions are by their very nature exclusive. They believe their dogma and traditions are the only true way to worship, right down to be prepared to fight wars and kill people for holding different beliefs. Listen to the lyrics on Lovesexy and you get none of that. Prince's spirituality is inclusive and welcoming and recognises sexuality as something pure. THAT is not what the JW or any other religion I know of embrace. Since becoming a JW (and I am not saying this is definitely connected but the timing is interesting) Prince has made racist comments in his lyrics, sexist comments in his lyrics, homophobic comments in his lyrics. I am still here because he still entertains me even though sometimes I cringe...have to say most of the time his comments just seem infantile and uninformed rather than intentionally offensive...might be wrong. 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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And some other general comments...
Who decides on the artistic merit of an artists work? Personally I don't play TRC that much because the Darth Vadar pseudo religious racist babble is too distracting but...the musicianship and music itself is awesome and easily a match for the 80s peak. However, *I* prefer to listen to SOTT or Parade etc. In addition Prince was indeed a trend setter (I said so earlier in this thread). He informed and influenced the zeitgeist of the mid 80s. He shaped and influenced so much of the music style that followed. In fact with the Minneapolis Sounds and evolution of New Jack Swing and Hip Hop by the late 80s early 90s the radio was pretty much a wall of Prince type sounds! So what am I saying... Prince became a musical genre in his own right and as such any music he produces now appears to be simply a throwback to his past. His music has always embraced disparate influences and fused them together. So now when he puts out an album it often features a melange of styles overlaid with THAT Prince sound and it feels as though he is on repeat or autopilot. What we are missing is the point that THAT is the Prince genre and style! The other factor neither I or others on this thread seemed to have mentioned is Prince's sheer volume of output. We (including me) compare him to other artists by looking at the age he was when he released album X versus another artist at the same point in their careers (all valid comparison of course) but what we fail to do is compare how many songs an artist has released at the same point in their career. I am sure there are some examples out there who are as prolific but I am pretty sure I cannot name one major commercial artist who has released the quantity of music Prince has or with the frequency! Where is Prince now, 35 albums or more? How many songs released? How many written? Is that a fairer comparison to make when we talk about the well running dry (or drier)? [Edited 4/10/15 1:42am] 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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His albums are no longer artistic statements, they are business transactions or strategic maneuvers (promoting tours, positioning himself for various deals). The only reason he communicates with fans is because he needs our money. If he hadn't he would continue to record, but straight for the vault. He is a bit of an outsider artist in his personality. I think he would be perfectly happy playing live for hours to an empty room in Paisley Park and continue to hoard tons of material in the vault for no one to hear. The wooh is on the one! | |
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And some other general comments... Who decides on the artistic merit of an artists work? Personally I don't play TRC that much because the Darth Vadar pseudo religious racist babble is too distracting but...the musicianship and music itself is awesome and easily a match for the 80s peak Where is Prince now, 35 albums or more? How many songs released? How many written? Is that a fairer comparison to make when we talk about the well running dry (or drier)? [Edited 4/10/15 1:42am]
Stop the Prince Apologists ™ | |
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Pentacle said:
![]() Yep I. Am very familiar with the released and unreleased Madhouse recordings. They don't really work for my tastes, too jazz noodly for me. On TRC he took that style and worked it around focused song structure. So for me the music works well as does the musicianship. The lyrics however are well, yeeucch! 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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I just can't believe what I am reading here. Post after post about how Prince has declined and he basically is some kind of douche bag ego maniac who is all about money and control. Now there are others here who are far more balanced in thier opinion. I just can't believe this a online fan community?! Just weird. | |
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I can see that side of it as well. At the end of the day, I'm riding with Prince. It's that simple if u ask me. No artist is going 2 be 100% what u want him or her 2 be. [Edited 4/10/15 6:40am] FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent. | |
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Prince is someone who has his own visions of the world. Because of the "job" destiny gave him, the horses went wild. And so he's commited to his visions, even if he himself clearly has doubts on the road he should take. One may wonder at the contumes and looks changes over the years : are they just to follow trends, or are they a constant run for finding his own true persona? I think he's the first to admit that he accomplished great things in his golden years. But obviously he turned the page long ago. I think he found himself in a position where he could just live as he intended. being autist and dealing with all the shit Prince has in his brains.
and without having to turn MTV or the radio on : when Prince wants to hear FM Pop, he goes in the studio, and a few hours later he's got the #1 of the week on Prince's Radio (broadcasting 24/24 in his head). And he's all excited about it (till next week), and so he runs to his current ambassador to the real world, and tries to make an interplanetary deal between Neptune and Earth. The ambassador knows his Prince is nuts, but has all the prestige and the past legend to ease the selling to the discmaker.
He puts out 3121 and Musicology to sustain himself, and he also takes great fun in quoting himself, rework old ideas, etc. But the way I see it, at a certain point he enjoyed live more and more, and so the record output is what it is.
But if you consider live... Man. He just got better and better in the last 20 years. What if the REAL Prince discography was really his best live bootlegs, And then you find yourself classifying the best live versions of "Sssh", and it's damn impossible.
[Edited 4/10/15 7:03am] The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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The kind of "decline" you're referring to does not appy to Prince.
By the sheer volume of what he has produced, and with the help of God, Prince is in a category of itself in the pop world. he had in the 00's and still has on today's productions Prince is a demanding artist. A very unique musician that puts out something, and you hear that something, and you find it's crap, but then you're compelled to listen to it again to make sure it's really crap. And most of the times, he has you. Which basically says that you don't think it's crap at all. You're just pissed off because we can't have a world with radios blocked on Prince's frequencies. perfecting his craft. it's bloody genius, and so the decline of Prince is something completely relative to the person exposed to the real extent of his œuvre. and that cost him a career à la Sting, or McCartney, which would have make him a gazillionaire. but he's surely the self-production ultimate Jedi, and that changed and still changes the whole music industry, and is more and more relevant in its approach, considering the music industry budgets today, [Edited 4/10/15 7:00am] The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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Hmmm one more thing from me... It was a real shame on so many levels what happened to Prince and Mayte and their baby son. This is clearly unbearably sad for any parent but in the context of this thread and being a fan what is sad is that Prince would likely have matured as a person and that would have impacted and influenced his approach to music, particularly the lyrics. By way as an example think of the closing track of Musicology. Clearly the lyrics are aimed at Manuela as Prince simply sings about domesticity and a world weary desire to just sit on the stoop playing his guitar. However, with two failed marriages Prince has reverted to being a perpetual bachelor and IMHO has not matured as a human being because of it (still chasing girls waaaaay too young for him!) 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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I'm far more exited about a possible live box set than anything from the "vault"
A live box retrospective woul be awesome. [Edited 4/10/15 6:52am] | |
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I think the world became less imaginative. Call me a hippie but I think the sheer materialism in the 80s made everything less spiritual and inspired. Grunge may have been fine but it was more urban and male. People were reacting to wealth they could not access which was sold ideologically in the 80s. With this backdrop Prince really struggled. Hr was too pretty,precious,rich and abstract. People wanted reflections of their own identity not iconic figures | |
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Diamonds and Pearls was the first album for me that made me question my love for Prince.
Why did Prince try to look hard and get into rap? What made him think people who liked rap music would accept him as "gangster"?
What did he see in Tony M? | |
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the thread should be locked after bonatoc's comment...perfect closing argument...defense rests ...case closed... | |
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