Crystal Ball all the way. Deep, coherent, forward looking. A complete work of art.

paulludvig said:

Crystal Ball all the way. Deep, coherent, forward looking. A complete work of art.

Yes, I agree completely. Can't even imagine what we would have thought of that triple album back in 1986. Crystal ball is everything Sign is and more. BUT...hard to believe that the song Sign o' The Times was buried on Crystal Ball (side 5, last track). Such a standout, ya know?

Crystall Ball.

The world really needs to know what an unparallelled multidisc masterpiece SOTT originally was, so at least those songs should be released as the third disc on the SOTT remaster (yeah, I know, if it ever even gets released).

The Camille album would have been okay, I guess. But I think The Black Album realizes the same idea ("Prince's dark, uncontrollable side") in a more satisfying way. No need to have "more typical Prince" tracks like "Strange Relationship" there.

Not "Dream Factory". I played one leaked version of that in its entirety & thought it was a good idea that he kept working until SOTT was done.

I probably would have preferred it to have come out the way it did with an additional LP release in 1987 to collect the best of what didn't make the cut. A triple-album of new material is really quite a bit. But by that time he would have been working on Black Album stuff already so, I guess it is what it is.

It's kind of unbelievable how prolific he is between late 86 and early 88 - 5 LPs of released material and another album or two's worth of outtakes.

Camille and some configuration of Dream Factory would do it for me!

Peronsally I think Sign O The Times benefitted from trimming away some of the fat and, with the exception of Rebirth of the Flesh, the other tracks made an appearance eventually.

The Ball isn't that great IMHO. I'm glad it was given more time to blossom into Eye No.

But had the Camille album been released, I think it would arguably have been Prince's strongest album.

This on PrinceVault on the Camille album page:

"While the album cover has not been shown to the public, it has been described as having a stick figure with X's for eyes."

X's for eyes.... the X's Face? Camille?

I'm maybe still gonna go with SOTT. Camille would have been an incredible album by itself; I'm still not sure that I like all those tracks dispersed throughout the Crystal Ball configuration. And I miss U Got the Look--that track was so fun and giddy. Crystal Ball lacks an obvious hit like that.

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And I don't think it would have been a good release as far as reception from the masses or critics. It might have intensified the sense that Prince was getting self-indulgent, and while some critics complained he repeated himself a little on SOTT (or that he was too scattershot stylistically), the 3-disc Crystal Ball would have really encouraged that response, besides being expensive. Commercial concerns mattered, and even SOTT was probably not a great choice with that in mind.

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Even as a fan, I might have been overwhelmed with that many tracks, and failed to really appreciate all of them. It's just harder to digest a big meal and really savor ever bite in the way it deserves. And when it's a crazy big meal... well, it's gonna wind up wasted on you if you try to eat it all at once.

crystal ball 1st .I like the track order . . it is only 6 tracks longer so do not think too much product.. you get majority of camille album and sott tracks barr one track.

Dream factory sab version would be last. it as the average song dream factory. Alot of intellectual twaddle as interludes like visions and neveah ni ecalp a which can make it abit boring to listen to. And i i think some of the earliers songs are good but do not fit on this project. They sound more like they belong on parade. He as sort of edited out all mention of the the revolution bits from dream factory and made a much better album. Even songs like crystal ball losers puple underground speech and made it leaner and meaner for crystal ball and i also probably prefer icnttpoym like iit is on crystal ball.

[Edited 3/19/15 4:16am]

[Edited 3/19/15 4:18am]

The "Outtakes songs" from 1986/87 are fantastic, but I looooove SOTT the way it is, strong all the way!

Lets not forget: the "Sign O' The Times" album is a masterpiece.


Maybe SOTT is Prince's best and most appreciated album among fans and other critics.


(imo).... SOTT is at least the second best Prince-album after Purple Rain.

Because of the volume of music he was producing at the time, it would probably have to be condensed down to one release. So I choose Crystal Ball, strength of song-wise. Awesome compilation of everything he was doing well at the time.

HOWEVER I think Dream Factory would have aged much better production wise a la Parade. Not sure the songs are as good though.

I think ideally I would want another Revolution album after Parade, some version of Dream Factory, with All of My Dreams, Power Fantastic, etc. as well as the CAMILLE album being released after. LOVE THAT ALBUM. To me Rebirth of the Flesh is a much more exciting opener than Sign O the Times. Camille IS funkier than the black album, and more fun too. Then keep the Black Album as a "secret thing". Then Lovesexy. Then the real Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic. Whoops, I'm getting carried away.

I just think there are a million better ways it could have gone, of course he was producing material at a faster rate than WB could release it.

[Edited 3/19/15 11:16am]

Usually when I listen 2 SOTT I end up breaking it up. There is definately a lot going on there.

There are very stripped down sounding songs:SOTT, It, Forever In My Life, and more colorful songs:Play In the Sunshine, U Got the Look, If I Was Your Girlfriend

There there is Slow Love(co-written) Starfish & Coffee(co-written) IGBABNight live Parade tour

.

I actually listen to Lovesexy Parade ATWIAD Controversy throught more often because of the flow

.

I think I would have appreciate a Dream Factory / Camille release.

But in general 1986 produced a load of incredible music, that is hard to choose from.

.

It is also weird that a strong song like Power Fantastic wasn't on the last DF configuration. Of course we still don't know if that would have been the last one.

But I think for me once I learned more about how SOTT came to be I tend to listen to other personal playlists.

This below is my favorite configuration

OldFriends4Sale said:

it breaks my heart too.

thats why I finally signed up for the org.

to have a voice.

we need these remasters full on with all the figurations

of Sign.we need DF,the June one etc on stellar sounding remasters.

That DF config with Power Fantastic and Large Room is about as good as it got for me, but It's A Wonderful Day needed to go. The later/last config had gone past the mark a bit I feel, it never feels that great to listen to imo, but that might be because of the similarities to SOTT.

Crystal Ball, I've always kind of felt the same way as that last DF config: It's never fully satisfying, and maybe for the same reasons. I've never wet my knickers over SOTT particularly but I think the album was kind of sloppy as Crystal Ball and it benefited from the tightening up of reducing it to 2 LPs - But this is all hindsight, I've no idea if I'd feel the opposite had it actually been released in 1987 as the original 3 LP and we'd all be used to it like that.

I agree with the poster above who said DF/Camille as their favourite - best of both worlds.


quick edit - That side 3 of the June config of DF, it might be the best/most ambitious/genre-stretching side of an LP Prince ever put together, it certainly rivals say 1999 and shows how much he'd really developed.

[Edited 3/19/15 14:06pm]

Crystal Ball would have flopped. HARD. It may have garnered some good press, but from a commercial perspective, it's missing the key songs to make buying a 3 album set worth it to the music buying public.

SOTT was considered a sales disappointment, but it at least had U Got The Look. SOTT, the song, and ICNTTPOYM weren't enough to keep a 3 album set afloat. What other songs on there would have gained any traction? None. It doesn't mean the album wasn't chalked full of great songs, just not any that would have been hits. The last thing Prince needed after UTCM was another flop. In that respect, SOTT as it was released was the right choice. It might have been even smarter to whittle it down to a single disc.

However, from a fan's standpoint, a 3 record set with that high caliber of songs would have been an absolute wet dream, and a brilliant and ballsy move for Prince. It probably wouldn't have been appreciated until years later, not unlike Parade, but it would have been considered a crowning achievement in retrospect.

I like the Dream Factory/Camille idea, but It's A Wonderful Day doesn't deserve release, and even though I like it, Teacher Teacher doesn't either. I do like Power Fantastic being apart of an album tracklist, as it very much deserves to be.

How about a 4-disc set that includes everything? That's my preferred release.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Susannah Melvoin on designing the Dream Factory album cover: Prince and I used to draw together. He was actually a really great artist. I was really into it, too. I would always have a pad and I was always drawing. I've been drawing since I was a kid. We would sit down and we would draw together. One particular night he couldn't come up with an album cover (for Dream Factory). I came up with a couple of different ones. One of them was actually a dramatized version of myself, opening up a door into this dream world, with images that were based on some of the songs. I remember that there was a lot of white space, because, I couldn't fill up the background with color... Everything was kind of drawn onto white paper. But, the doors were very ornate and I'm opening the door into the Dream Factory. The second album cover didn't have me on it. It just had the name Dream Factory, with some things hanging off the words. I used to do murals in the house where Prince lived, incredible, crazy murals that he would ask me to paint. We were always into doing stuff like that.

That sounds really corny, but of course Prince is no stranger to corny album covers.

KingSausage said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Usually when I listen 2 SOTT I end up breaking it up. There is definately a lot going on there.

There are very stripped down sounding songs:SOTT, It, Forever In My Life, and more colorful songs:Play In the Sunshine, U Got the Look, If I Was Your Girlfriend

There there is Slow Love(co-written) Starfish & Coffee(co-written) IGBABNight live Parade tour

.

I actually listen to Lovesexy Parade ATWIAD Controversy throught more often because of the flow

.

I think I would have appreciate a Dream Factory / Camille release.

But in general 1986 produced a load of incredible music, that is hard to choose from.

.

It is also weird that a strong song like Power Fantastic wasn't on the last DF configuration. Of course we still don't know if that would have been the last one.

But I think for me once I learned more about how SOTT came to be I tend to listen to other personal playlists.

This below is my favorite configuration

That June 3 configuration of DF would have been one crazy fucking masterpiece. What an amazing artistic statement. I prefer the final configuration personally, despite Power Fantastic being my favorite song. I'm fascinated by this era. I would kill for some sort of giant box set with all the different configurations. I know that will never happen. It breaks my heart.

I disagree. Visions and Wendy is rubbish. It's a Wonderful Day and Teacher Teacher is not amongs Prince's best work. The entire side 4 is pretty weak as well, with the exception of In All My Dreams. I don't particularly like A Place in Heaven either. Power Fantastic is a great song, but a stand alone track and it doesn't flow well with the song Crystal Ball.

master said:

crystal ball 1st .I like the track order . . it is only 6 tracks longer so do not think too much product.. you get majority of camille album and sott tracks barr one track.

Dream factory sab version would be last. it as the average song dream factory. Alot of intellectual twaddle as interludes like visions and neveah ni ecalp a which can make it abit boring to listen to. And i i think some of the earliers songs are good but do not fit on this project. They sound more like they belong on parade. He as sort of edited out all mention of the the revolution bits from dream factory and made a much better album. Even songs like crystal ball losers puple underground speech and made it leaner and meaner for crystal ball and i also probably prefer icnttpoym like iit is on crystal ball.

[Edited 3/19/15 4:16am]

[Edited 3/19/15 4:18am]

NouveauDance said:

That DF config with Power Fantastic and Large Room is about as good as it got for me, but It's A Wonderful Day needed to go. The later/last config had gone past the mark a bit I feel, it never feels that great to listen to imo, but that might be because of the similarities to SOTT.

Crystal Ball, I've always kind of felt the same way as that last DF config: It's never fully satisfying, and maybe for the same reasons. I've never wet my knickers over SOTT particularly but I think the album was kind of sloppy as Crystal Ball and it benefited from the tightening up of reducing it to 2 LPs - But this is all hindsight, I've no idea if I'd feel the opposite had it actually been released in 1987 as the original 3 LP and we'd all be used to it like that.

I agree with the poster above who said DF/Camille as their favourite - best of both worlds.


quick edit - That side 3 of the June config of DF, it might be the best/most ambitious/genre-stretching side of an LP Prince ever put together, it certainly rivals say 1999 and shows how much he'd really developed.

[Edited 3/19/15 14:06pm]

I think Crystal Ball was pretty tight to begin with. Much more than Dream Factory, whitch to me sounds like a mix of new and old. Forward looking Prince tracks and backwards looking (but still good) Revolution tracks.

What a great period. If I could wave a magic wand, we would have got all the music, but in more obvious packages: The Revolution, Camille, and Prince (post Revolution). Something like this:

Prince and the Revolution – Dream Factory

Side A

Visions

Dream Factory

Teacher Teacher

Power Fantastic

Train

And That say what?

Side B

Sexual Suicide

In A Large Room with No Light

A Place in Heaven

Witness 4 the Prosecution

Movie Star

All My Dreams

Camille - Camille

Side A

Rebirth of the flesh

Housequake

Strange Relationship

Feel U Up

Side B

Shockadelica

Good Love

If I was your girlfriend

Rock Hard In a Funky Place

Prince - Crystal Ball (Double Album)

Side A

Crystal Ball

Play In the Sunshine

The Ballad of Dorothy Parker

Side B

It

Starfish and Coffee

Hot Thing

The Ball

Joy in Repetition

Side C

I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man

Slow Love

Forever In My Life

U Got The Look

Sign O The Times

Side D

The Cross

It’s Gonna Be A Beautiful Night

Adore

In regard to reality, I think SOTT is better than Crystal Ball. Prince's greatest weakness is quality control, and WB forcing him to cut CB down made for a more cohesive album. I would have chosen different tracks for the cut (It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night is always out of place and should have been a B side), but overall, the cut down to a still big double album worked.

My Perfect SOTT (assuming Dream Factory and Camille were both canned) would have been:

SOTT

Play in the Sunshine

Housequake

The Ballad of Dorothy Parker

Good Love
Starfish and Coffee
Power Fantastic

Hot Thing

Forever in my Life

U Got The Look

If I was your Girlfriend

Strange Relationship
I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man

Joy In Repetition

The Cross

Shockadelica
Adore