JoeyCococo said:

Agree about Off The Wall & Thriller. I am not a huge MJ fan but every time his music from that era plays can't help and be amazed at how great that sounds. And how well that "sound" has held up.
Sure MJ is a great artist, but a lot of credit also has to go to the producer, in that case Quincy Jones, and who did get his fair share of credit and grammy's for his work.

At this point in time maybe it is not worth dwelling on it any longer. Maybe it just is what it is, and we should just accept it. Accept that that is what the classic Prince sound is.

Not to compare, but there was a huge "restoration" of the paintings at the Sistine Chapel a few years back. A lot of work went into "restoring" them. And when it was all done, the paintings looked bright and cheerful and colorful. Gone were many layers that had acumulated over time, and look vastly diffrent from what we had known and loved. Many were not impressed.

Who know's, Prince is the artist. And we have all come to love the original work, so who is to really say? I've always liked it. Would we like it more if we fidled around with it? Maybe, but sometimes things are better left alone if preserved in their original state.

Prince himself re-recorded some tracks, notably 1999. Even when the artist himself goes back and mucks around with his own work, the results are not always as beloved. Cue George Lucas and his own "restorations" of his own work.

[Edited 3/21/15 12:03pm]

Same here. It's almost impossible to hip anyone to The Time or Controversy because you can't even hear the shit on modern equipment.

Have you given AOA a listen? It sounds awful...and if you thought that was bad, give a listen to Plect Elect. AOA is on volume 11 out of 10, and PE is on volume 15 out of 10...just awful distortion, and not the good kind Nirvana had going on way back when.

The pre 1994 albums have no bass at all, yeah, they sound awful...but the remasters ship has already sailed. There's no real money in reissues unless you make big deluxe box sets...and Prince and WB have the collective marketing genius of say a dead waterbug circling the drain. None at all. Prince recorded AOA with the Auto Tune Dim Wit with no musical knowledge, and Prince is probably confused that all the people who are into that did not become big Prince fans...and he's shocked that the "Prize Patrol Horn" in the intro of Art Official Cage did not have the effect Josh probably promised him when Josh likely told him how innovative and groundbreaking it was...

With no money in remasters, we will be lucky to get Purple Rain, 1999, and SOTT...and probably just get PR, if we get anything.

I've said it a billion times, but the only way to make money on Prince remasters are Big Box Sets with Tons of outtakes and live material..

Box 1 1978-1981 8 or CD for $110

Box 2 1982-1984 just 1999 and Purple Rain 8 CD $110

Box 3 1985-1995 20 CD $200

Box 4 More Outtakes 1976-2015 10 CD $120

That pretty much would be his entire career...and would make a tiny profit...not enough to inspire Prince or WB to actually do it.

stillwaiting said:

Have you given AOA a listen? It sounds awful...and if you thought that was bad, give a listen to Plect Elect. AOA is on volume 11 out of 10, and PE is on volume 15 out of 10...just awful distortion, and not the good kind Nirvana had going on way back when.

The pre 1994 albums have no bass at all, yeah, they sound awful...but the remasters ship has already sailed. There's no real money in reissues unless you make big deluxe box sets...and Prince and WB have the collective marketing genius of say a dead waterbug circling the drain. None at all. Prince recorded AOA with the Auto Tune Dim Wit with no musical knowledge, and Prince is probably confused that all the people who are into that did not become big Prince fans...and he's shocked that the "Prize Patrol Horn" in the intro of Art Official Cage did not have the effect Josh probably promised him when Josh likely told him how innovative and groundbreaking it was...

With no money in remasters, we will be lucky to get Purple Rain, 1999, and SOTT...and probably just get PR, if we get anything.

I've said it a billion times, but the only way to make money on Prince remasters are Big Box Sets with Tons of outtakes and live material..

Box 1 1978-1981 8 or CD for $110

Box 2 1982-1984 just 1999 and Purple Rain 8 CD $110

Box 3 1985-1995 20 CD $200

Box 4 More Outtakes 1976-2015 10 CD $120

That pretty much would be his entire career...and would make a tiny profit...not enough to inspire Prince or WB to actually do it.

AOA has issues. It sounds so fucking bright, tinny and annoying. But the problems go far beyond that.

I was listening to AOA flac files, on a high resolution player, with some $750 dollar in ear monitors earlier today and some of the distortion on some tracks is #$%@ing awful. I always thought the album was badly recorded, ut I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt and try listeing to it on some decent gear (though the OP would laugh at my setup as it cost less than $5000).

Personally, I don't think his 80s albums sounds awful. They are not the best recorded albums ever, but they still sound better than almost anything that's been recorded in the past 20 years.

Anyone who thinks remasters (if they ever happen) will sound better than the originals is living in cloud cuckoo land.

tobydavies said:

I was listening to AOA flac files, on a high resolution player, with some $750 dollar in ear monitors earlier today and some of the distortion on some tracks is #$%@ing awful. I always thought the album was badly recorded, ut I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt and try listeing to it on some decent gear (though the OP would laugh at my setup as it cost less than $5000).

Personally, I don't think his 80s albums sounds awful. They are not the best recorded albums ever, but they still sound better than almost anything that's been recorded in the past 20 years.

Anyone who thinks remasters (if they ever happen) will sound better than the originals is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The originals sound fine on vinyl. Since the transfers to CD were done in the dark ages, somebody forgot to make sure you could hear the bass. The Black Album and SOTT are by far the worst. From Lovesexy on, they get a little better, but the Symbol album is the first one where it even sounds good...and Gold is the first one that sounds really good. From 1997 on, most sound great, but from around 2009 or so...Prince's albums got too loud. So basically 1978-1990 too quiet 1991-1994 getting better, 1995-2004 fine... 2006-2010 a little too loud 2014: Are you kidding me? Did the producers of Metallica's Death Magnetic do this?

stillwaiting said:

Since the transfers to CD were done in the dark ages, somebody forgot to make sure you could hear the bass. The Black Album and SOTT are by far the worst.

I'll agree the Black Album doesn't sound great, but I don't get why people say Sign O the Time sounds bad ... it sounds okay to me.

tobydavies said:

Off The Wall's great but...I prefer the grittiness of Dirty Mind.

It's the source material. Prince, like Todd Rundgren, was more concerned about getting stuff down quickly as opposed to making sure it sounded the best it possibly could audio quality wise. A small price to pay for impulsive creative genius in both cases for me.

Give me rough around the edges any day.

stillwaiting said:

Have you given AOA a listen? It sounds awful...and if you thought that was bad, give a listen to Plect Elect. AOA is on volume 11 out of 10, and PE is on volume 15 out of 10...just awful distortion, and not the good kind Nirvana had going on way back when.

.

The Nevermind remaster from a couple of years ago is equally shite. Utter disgrace. Thankfully the In Utero one is brilliant. Now let's hope they redo Nevermind properly.

jjam said:

Off The Wall's great but...I prefer the grittiness of Dirty Mind.

It's the source material. Prince, like Todd Rundgren, was more concerned about getting stuff down quickly as opposed to making sure it sounded the best it possibly could audio quality wise. A small price to pay for impulsive creative genius in both cases for me.

Give me rough around the edges any day.

.

The sourc ematerial is badly presented. Simply compare older editions of Sly Stone's Riot with recent remasterings and it is a world of difference: that's because the source material is in a bad state because Sly promised his one night stands to be featured on the album so he first took them to the recording studio in his house and had them sing ON THE ORIGINAL MASTER and then erased them. The original tape is in a seriously bad state and it took multiple tries over the years to improve the quality of the digital transfer.

.

Jimi Hendrix's records also received improved masters over the years, partly because technology advanced and because technicians became better at their jobs.

.

The same care should be applied to Prince's master tapes, so we can get rid of those barely adequate mastering jobs from the 1980s. The HDTracks releases already were some improvement and I'm guessing those were sourced from the "re-"mastering done in the early 1990s for The Hits/The B-Sides. There is plenty of room for improvement without brickwalling.

Remastering can only do so much. Riot will never be even a near audiophile experience.

There is no hope for improving the sound of AOA. I think, they fucked that up at the recording stage and as far as I know, it is impossible to fix.

All the 80's albums have the potential for incredible remastering. I remember when SOTT came out. I was listening to EPMD and DJ Cash Money and Marvelous records. SOTT sounded so thin and weak in comparison. Especially the lower frequencies. I ripped the audio off the SOTT movie to a cassette and even that stood up better sonically against contemporary music at the time than what was on the SOTT album.

There is enormous headroom on the original master tapes for most of the Prince albums that truly matter, which is far more preferable for remastering. It's easier to remaster say, SOTT and Dirty Mind, than MJ's Dangerous or JJ Rhythm Nation, just because Prince's masters had a comparitively weak sound and didn't use the full range of decibels to begin with. Now if we can just get a Kickstarter up so Prince can pay for it.

tobydavies said:

stillwaiting said:

Since the transfers to CD were done in the dark ages, somebody forgot to make sure you could hear the bass. The Black Album and SOTT are by far the worst.

I'll agree the Black Album doesn't sound great, but I don't get why people say Sign O the Time sounds bad ... it sounds okay to me.

It is the worst professionally released CD I own, in terms of its mastering.

so basically EVEN with top quality headphones...one couldnt enjoy the full experience?

Sure, the old albums need remastering, but I never trust anyone that self-describes as an audiophile, you know it's going to be the same deal as having diner with a self-described wine connoiseur: you'll have to sit there repeatedly paying homage to the person's refined taste (and generally more opulent lifestyle).

That's why I just love blind tests done on audiophiles and foodies --- sooo fun to watch them praise the hell out of a cheap bottle of wine they think is expensive or to describe all the "notes" they detect in "organic" food that's basically a Happy Meal cut in little slices and dressed to look homemade.

leecaldon said:

tobydavies said:

I'll agree the Black Album doesn't sound great, but I don't get why people say Sign O the Time sounds bad ... it sounds okay to me.

It is the worst professionally released CD I own, in terms of its mastering.

This comment must be down to one of the following ...

A) complete hyperbole
B) you only own one CD
C) there is more than one versions of the CD and you've got a very poor one

... because I've just had a quick listen to SOTT and there is plenty of bass, it's sounds crisp and clear, with plenty of dynamic range.

I've heard far, far worse.

tobydavies said:

leecaldon said:

It is the worst professionally released CD I own, in terms of its mastering.

This comment must be down to one of the following ...

A) complete hyperbole
B) you only own one CD
C) there is more than one versions of the CD and you've got a very poor one

... because I've just had a quick listen to SOTT and there is plenty of bass, it's sounds crisp and clear, with plenty of dynamic range.

I've heard far, far worse.

I don't think my opinion on this is an uncommon one on here - people have been complaining about the SOTT CD for years.

Sure, the old albums need remastering, but I never trust anyone that self-describes as an audiophile, you know it's going to be the same deal as having diner with a self-described wine connoiseur: you'll have to sit there repeatedly paying homage to the person's refined taste (and generally more opulent lifestyle).

That's why I just love blind tests done on audiophiles and foodies --- sooo fun to watch them praise the hell out of a cheap bottle of wine they think is expensive or to describe all the "notes" they detect in "organic" food that's basically a Happy Meal cut in little slices and dressed to look homemade.

Sure the older albums on CD could be better mastered however, they still sound great to me as I loev the music and I especially LOVE Art Official Age. I have a high end system and regardless of if listen to the AOA album on that, headphones or in the car I feel it sounds just fine. I love the music, the album and the current output from PRINCE.

TikiColadas said:

All of the 80's Paisley stuff was meant to be listened to on vinyl. I don't own any Prince music from the 80's on CD, it all sounds bad. Prince could have went into any studio but he wanted that raw sound. The mics on Little Red Corvette and If I Was Your Girlfriend are distorted on purpose. The latter being a recording mistake that he happened to like.

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

All of the 80's Paisley stuff was meant to be listened to on vinyl.

.

Why not cassette? Or 8-track? 45 rpm vinyl or 33rpm? Etc. Or to be clear: nonsense.

BartVanHemelen said:

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

All of the 80's Paisley stuff was meant to be listened to on vinyl.

.

Why not cassette? Or 8-track? 45 rpm vinyl or 33rpm? Etc. Or to be clear: nonsense.

because of the unique mastering required for vinyl-- come on, you know this. i usually agree with you on this, but this Paisley stuff was much more engineered (or at least more well engineered) for vinyl. they're right when they say it was meant to be listened to on vinyl: the harmonic distortion that format provides makes prince's signature sound really pop and ties together the sometimes rushed mixes on Prince albums. even today, i only listen to high-quality vinyl rips of Prince albums on my hard drive, especially sign o' the times and purple rain.

by the way-- the high-quality vinyl rips sound amazing. seek them out. almost defeats the purpose of remasters for me, although i would like them just in case there's any bonus content P throws in or they really have been delicately (read: not loudly) restored from the original tapes.

[Edited 3/30/15 9:59am]

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said: