vinaysfunk said:

Have you guys nothting better to talk about than the recollected price of Emancipation from way back when? I mean come on. What a waste of intelligence. Alot of you hear on this thread are extremely bright and well informed when it comes to Prince and his music. That's why I visit this forum. This thread was about one of his most personal albums and his enthusiam and it's supposed lack of success. Forget the price of the CD back in 1996/7. Let focus on the music again.

It's interesting to me what the release cost in different geographical regions. The price certainly had an influence on its lack of success on the charts. I myself moved the discussion in this direction and I'm sorry if you consider it boring and "a waste of intelligence". Not all of us had an unlimited amount of money to spend on records back then. It was not just a small deal for me to spend over 40 euros on Emancipation as a teenager when I would have needed to use the money on other things. I almost didn't buy it despite being a huge fan, because of how much it cost. He had also put out two other CDs earlier that year, so the money spent on his music added up if you were a fan.

Nothing prevents you from moving the discussion into a direction that you find more interesting yourself. So do that instead of whining about things that might interest some others.

[Edited 3/13/15 8:23am]

I am not whining. I am just surprised that there are so many posts about the costs of the cd way back then when no one can really remember how much it costs them. I mean do you really remember the amount from almost 20 years ago? And it goes without saying that different areas priced the cds differently for a variety of reasons. Again it was more of a back handed compliment. You guys are really bright and usually post some great stuff. I am just surprised at the amount of focus on pricing when no one can agree on it and yeah everybody got priced differently. Relax.

vinaysfunk said:

Have you guys nothting better to talk about than the recollected price of Emancipation from way back when? I mean come on. What a waste of intelligence. Alot of you hear on this thread are extremely bright and well informed when it comes to Prince and his music. That's why I visit this forum. This thread was about one of his most personal albums and his enthusiam and it's supposed lack of success. Forget the price of the CD back in 1996/7. Let focus on the music again.

What songs would you like to talk about?

Hi herb4. Btw I love reading your posts. Always insightful. I wouldn't necessarily talk about specific songs although I can. This thread is specifically about did the perceived lack of success of Emancipation kill Prince's enthusiasm? My answer is clearly no. There are countless interviews and articles where he states he was very happy how this CD did in terms of sales. His profit structure as we all know was very different than at his time with WB. So in terms of $ I am sure he did just fine.

In terms of personal success I think he also did just fine. He wanted for the longest time to put out a 3 cd compilation and he did. You could tell he had a lot of fun making this album. There is such a variety of music on this cd and it was done intentionally. Look ma look what I can do with no constraints.

And I believe its a fact that it's one of best selling 3 cd sets of all time in the music biz. #1 or #2 if I am not mistaken.

All I am trying to say is that I don't think there was a lack of success with Emancipation in the first place. And this made Prince even more bold and enthusiastic to make even bolder moves.

vinaysfunk said:

Hi herb4. Btw I love reading your posts. Always insightful.

Well, thanks but I'm not so sure about all that. I don't give myself as much as credit as you do. I was just trying to get the thread back on topic and your post(s) seemed to call out a dude who said the album was expensive. You seemed angry about it so I thought I might engage you and get you to talk about the record itself is all, by starting with specific songs.

.

Meaning:

Have you guys nothting better to talk about than the recollected price of Emancipation from way back when?

So talk about the record. Or offer someting "better to talk about". One guy bitched about the price and, I don't know, he may be right. My point is, that so far, one poster called the OP's orginal question stupid, another posited that there are videos for every one of the songs on the record and then you came along and got upset about someone wasting all of our time complaining about pricing when, in my mind, you could just offer something constructive about the topic at hand.

.

There've been a few really good threads here lately for a change and I hate to see them get shitted up over semantics. Thanks for the compliment and thinking I'm insightful. I apologize if I came off as an asshole towards you in this post.

[Edited 3/13/15 13:00pm]

No apologies necessary. And I wasn't angry at all. More like confused. My contribution to this threa is that I don't believe the premise of this thread is true at all. I think I redirected it with my post. And yes your posts are insightful. I almost always enjoy reading them.

vinaysfunk said:

No apologies necessary. And I wasn't angry at all. More like confused. My contribution to this threa is that I don't believe the premise of this thread is true at all. I think I redirected it with my post. And yes your posts are insightful. I almost always enjoy reading them.

You should start a "Prince Fans Under 40" thread or something like that and describe what got you into it. I forget, do you like Emancipation or not? What about the other questions I posed? Take care.

KingSausage said:

Wait, did we resolve whether Emancipation was expensive or not? Who won? Shit.

Did you like it? It was cheap.

Did you hate it? It was expensive.

Either way, Prince made bank.

EddieC said:

KingSausage said:

EddieC said:

Did you like it? It was cheap.

Did you hate it? It was expensive.

Either way, Prince made bank.

I bought it used and like half of it. I don't know what to think.

I don't know--but Prince didn't make anything off of you. So I was completely wrong.

EddieC said:

KingSausage said:

EddieC said:

I don't know--but Prince didn't make anything off of you. So I was completely wrong.

Nah. I bought that stupid Emancipation lyric book. So be made bank. However, it killed my enthusiasm.

So I was right? Cool.

.

God that was a dumb book. I bought it too. And I have no idea where it is now, so it's extra dumb.

EddieC said:

The horrendous, atrocious, colorblind, 1st-time-with-Photoshop "artwork" of Emancipation
surely killed potential buyers enthusiasm.

But the question has no point.

You may like TGE or not, but the project has enthusiasm exsuding from all songs.
"Exodus" is full of wit and joy, TRC has true commitment all over. Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r as well.

You cannot tie Prince's bad choices to "lack of enthusiasm".

Listen to him rave on for minutes on "Mindbells".
This shitty pitch-bended hook and the wrecked groove do not stop his belief that he's recording the ultimate pop song, which makes the vocals fascinating to listen to.

Even in "Poom Poom", "Jughead", there's still total believing and commitment to the song.

It's one of the reasons why all musicians and critics keep on listening to his outputs.
Even when the song is a bland mess, Prince's egocentrism at work is always interesting to listen to.
Because we know (now hope) that a some point, it's going to produce a kick-ass bass solo or something.

If some records sounds poorly written/composed, it's because there is no one around him who dares to pinpoint the obvious weaknesses.
Plus, as warning2all said :

1) Prince is so eccentric and rich now he's lost touch with what used to motivate him.

Not only motivation, but the real world.
Who is interested in a rich man's sentimental problems ?
Poor guy, you're all alone in a 5 stars hotel suite? How cruel life can be!
See me sighing in the leather of my limousine. The feeling's so bad I don't even want a slice of pizza.

No wonder that "Mickey D" line sounds so fake.

[Edited 3/14/15 13:17pm]

KingSausage said:

EddieC said:

I don't know--but Prince didn't make anything off of you. So I was completely wrong.

Nah. I bought that stupid Emancipation lyric book. So be made bank. However, it killed my enthusiasm.

.

You bought that? I got several for free when I ordered something.

bonatoc said:

The horrendous, atrocious, colorblind, 1st-time-with-Photoshop "artwork" of Emancipation
surely killed potential buyers enthusiasm.

.

That and having to wade through three CDs. By that time Prince already was known for releasing far too much mediocre tripe.

.

Who is interested in a rich man's sentimental problems ?
Poor guy, you're all alone in a 5 stars hotel suite? How cruel life can be!
See me sighing in the leather of my limousine. The feeling's so bad I don't even want a slice of pizza.

.

Yup, all that "I'm a slave" crap was really grating by then.

BartVanHemelen said:

KingSausage said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

You bought that? I got several for free when I ordered something.

Honestly, now that I think about it, I may have got mine for free as a pack-in too. It's been so long, and it try to forget about my dealings with 1-800-NEW-FUNK. PTSD worthy.

I'm pretty sure I bought it. God knows why.

Can I take one off your hands? My original is quite scratched.

funksterr said:

My dumb azz has like 10 sealed copied in my collection and I don't like the album either.

Musze said:

Can I take one off your hands? My original is quite scratched.

funksterr said:

My dumb azz has like 10 sealed copied in my collection and I don't like the album either.

.

Careful: the ones that were sold for next to nothing often contained the censored version of the album.

BartVanHemelen said:

luvsexy4all said:

it was discussed around that time amongst fans

.

Plenty of fans have stupid ideas. There were people who insisted a "Prince demo" exists of each track he gave to another artist, for instance.

.

Also, considering that Emancipation changed in scope quite a lot (once upon a time it was going to be "54 tracks", IIRC), would there also be videos for all those other songs? Would there be a video for each version of each song (since the 60 minute running time of each disc wasn't a happy accident, so some songs must have been edited along the way)?

.

[Edited 3/11/15 6:50am]

You are right about the 54 originally intended tracks. He mentioned them during the Esquire interview (the one where he wore the Versace outfits...the red suit, the golden t-shirt, etc.) in 1995.

bonatoc said:

The horrendous, atrocious, colorblind, 1st-time-with-Photoshop "artwork" of Emancipation
surely killed potential buyers enthusiasm.

But the question has no point.

You may like TGE or not, but the project has enthusiasm exsuding from all songs.
"Exodus" is full of wit and joy, TRC has true commitment all over. Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r as well.

You cannot tie Prince's bad choices to "lack of enthusiasm".

Listen to him rave on for minutes on "Mindbells".
This shitty pitch-bended hook and the wrecked groove do not stop his belief that he's recording the ultimate pop song, which makes the vocals fascinating to listen to.

Even in "Poom Poom", "Jughead", there's still total believing and commitment to the song.

It's one of the reasons why all musicians and critics keep on listening to his outputs.
Even when the song is a bland mess, Prince's egocentrism at work is always interesting to listen to.
Because we know (now hope) that a some point, it's going to produce a kick-ass bass solo or something.

If some records sounds poorly written/composed, it's because there is no one around him who dares to pinpoint the obvious weaknesses.
Plus, as warning2all said :

1) Prince is so eccentric and rich now he's lost touch with what used to motivate him.

Not only motivation, but the real world.
Who is interested in a rich man's sentimental problems ?
Poor guy, you're all alone in a 5 stars hotel suite? How cruel life can be!
See me sighing in the leather of my limousine. The feeling's so bad I don't even want a slice of pizza.

No wonder that "Mickey D" line sounds so fake.

[Edited 3/14/15 13:17pm]

There's much research out there that shows confidence is one of the key factors to anyone achieving success in their endeavors. Far more so than even talent, because there's an endless social element that makes or breaks a person that talent alone doesn't address. While I agree with the sentiment that his overconfidence in things that are lacking is a crappy personal quality, one could argue that he would have never achieved the status that he did if had lacked this quality. For me the issue is not being out of touch or egocentric, its more the issue that he's hypersensitive, which makes it difficult to invite others into his world in a way that could counterbalance the egocentricity. Hypersensitive people often are compelled to insulate themselves and people that make them uncomfortable don't last too long. That makes for an extremely fascinating ride with guaranteed highs and lows all coming from a risk-taking nature but also a nature thats occasionally divorced from reality (or social expectations) in peculiar ways.

A friend of mine wanted to buy emancipation and while stumbling for reviews, bumped into this thread. now he doesn't want to buy it. So I say: Stop it, y'all. Peeps, these are not reviews. Emancipation is a very good album. Some of the songs are extraordinary. That was the first time I felt, or knew, that prince would now move further and further away from his come-and-dirty-mind infested work. It is a cohesive piece of pop art, the likes of which no other pop musician on the planet has the ability to generate out of thin air. If you like prince and haven't heard emancipation, your prince experience is incomplete. It's a brilliant testimony to how prince's life and career intermesh to inspire his music. so youngsters, go out and get it. it's a beautiful work. don't listen to people who have heard every song 100 times and still don't get it, yet will listen to it 100 times more. experience for yourself.

Funkyalien said:

A friend of mine wanted to buy emancipation and while stumbling for reviews, bumped into this thread. now he doesn't want to buy it. So I say: Stop it, y'all. Peeps, these are not reviews. Emancipation is a very good album. Some of the songs are extraordinary. That was the first time I felt, or knew, that prince would now move further and further away from his come-and-dirty-mind infested work. It is a cohesive piece of pop art, the likes of which no other pop musician on the planet has the ability to generate out of thin air. If you like prince and haven't heard emancipation, your prince experience is incomplete. It's a brilliant testimony to how prince's life and career intermesh to inspire his music. so youngsters, go out and get it. it's a beautiful work. don't listen to people who have heard every song 100 times and still don't get it, yet will listen to it 100 times more. experience for yourself.

Okay then--show him this: BUY IT!!

.

Even if you don't like most of it, you'll get at least one good disc's worth of songs out of it. And no one else will pick the exact same tracks as part of that group, so they're probably all at least decent.

.

We tend to exaggerate our judgment's around here.

Noodled24 said:

Emancipation? No.

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic possibly.

It's my favorite Prince album after the year 1989.

lezama said:

bonatoc said:

The horrendous, atrocious, colorblind, 1st-time-with-Photoshop "artwork" of Emancipation
surely killed potential buyers enthusiasm.

But the question has no point.

You may like TGE or not, but the project has enthusiasm exsuding from all songs.
"Exodus" is full of wit and joy, TRC has true commitment all over. Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r as well.

You cannot tie Prince's bad choices to "lack of enthusiasm".

Listen to him rave on for minutes on "Mindbells".
This shitty pitch-bended hook and the wrecked groove do not stop his belief that he's recording the ultimate pop song, which makes the vocals fascinating to listen to.

Even in "Poom Poom", "Jughead", there's still total believing and commitment to the song.

It's one of the reasons why all musicians and critics keep on listening to his outputs.
Even when the song is a bland mess, Prince's egocentrism at work is always interesting to listen to.
Because we know (now hope) that a some point, it's going to produce a kick-ass bass solo or something.

If some records sounds poorly written/composed, it's because there is no one around him who dares to pinpoint the obvious weaknesses.
Plus, as warning2all said :

1) Prince is so eccentric and rich now he's lost touch with what used to motivate him.

Not only motivation, but the real world.
Who is interested in a rich man's sentimental problems ?
Poor guy, you're all alone in a 5 stars hotel suite? How cruel life can be!
See me sighing in the leather of my limousine. The feeling's so bad I don't even want a slice of pizza.

No wonder that "Mickey D" line sounds so fake.

[Edited 3/14/15 13:17pm]

There's much research out there that shows confidence is one of the key factors to anyone achieving success in their endeavors. Far more so than even talent, because there's an endless social element that makes or breaks a person that talent alone doesn't address. While I agree with the sentiment that his overconfidence in things that are lacking is a crappy personal quality, one could argue that he would have never achieved the status that he did if had lacked this quality. For me the issue is not being out of touch or egocentric, its more the issue that he's hypersensitive, which makes it difficult to invite others into his world in a way that could counterbalance the egocentricity. Hypersensitive people often are compelled to insulate themselves and people that make them uncomfortable don't last too long. That makes for an extremely fascinating ride with guaranteed highs and lows all coming from a risk-taking nature but also a nature thats occasionally divorced from reality (or social expectations) in peculiar ways.

Completely agree. But lately it does sound like an excuse for shitty behaviours.

It has to do with the American Dream, capitalism, and childhood traumas.

The American Dream is eager for winners, that's the whole point. It presents the subject like a supreme hero that must overcome all obstacles,
but underneath it allows to crunch people by the truck load, asking only for productivism.
The self-confident figure is not something to admire, it's something to fear, even if it perpetually shows that Superman Colgate smile.

I would gladly see the world finally collapse and have a society where the meek is allowed to speak.
Where the shy talent is given a chance to blossom.

I'm tired of living in an environment that promotes assholes.

Steve Jobs is one. Surely he had talent to foresee stuff, but he spent most of his time stressing out people, destroying family lives,
only to spread silicon and plastic to the western masses, and causing them traumas they didn't know they had in themselves.

Madonna : Is self-confidence really a good thing, when botox turns your face into your own Madame Tussaud's waxwork ?
When you think displaying some kind of patethic orgiac porno-hell super-production (with horns on dancers, etc.) is actually
meaningful or entertaining in 2015 ?
When it makes you applaud Miley Cyrus, that bleak and depressing sign of the times ?

See what this frame of mind does to some orgers : they constantly try to see music in relation to sales figures.
Like art is supposed to score.
No it ain't, otherwise you don't know shit about art.
The industrial replication, the art market, that is business, not creation.
One would argue that money should not take any part in the creation process,
but hey, a 64 channel digital console does not come cheap, nor does a RED camera.
Still, daily masterpieces are born from cheap cameras and acoustic guitars, so there.

You have to leave this false assumption that business success is a reflection of the quality of the work.
In that way, many of us are still stuck in the Matrix, and some would kill to defend their entirely biased system of belief.

Take this thread : lack of "success".
The OP himself seems to think that sales would be a major incentive.
The thread is not titled "Did Emancipation's lack of quality kill Prince's fans enthusiasm?"
No. It speaks about mass adoption again. Like it's some fucking Holy Grail.

Prince is a product of the eighties. Pity he got stuck in them.
After Kurt Cobain, it would have been great to see Prince going the full artistic way.
But no, he's still chasing his own mirage, still trying to make a Top 10 hit when "hit" has lost its meaning a long time ago.

2 millions a show ? Yeah man, give me that Mickey D line again.
If it were not for the pure musicianship, I would have dropped Prince decades ago.

[Edited 3/21/15 4:41am]