I remember when Prince was touting Emancipation as "the album he was born to make", and wanted to put it out as a 3 disk album (from what I understand) in a response to his previous anger at Warner Brothers for cutting Crystal Ball down to the 2 disk Sign o' the Times album. He clearly put a lot of effort into Emancipation, and in my opinion it contains some of Prince's strongest material (even though the production was poorly executed).

After it was released to a rather lackluster response from his fans and critics, he seemed to lose his way on the majority of his following albums, most notably Rave and New Power Soul, which seem to lack any feeling of enthusiasm or creativity. So my question is, do you think Emancipation's relative failure (by Prince's standards) affected Prince's career and output?

I don't believe so, it do go double platinum IIRC. He had a very successful tour shortly after the album, it did receive some very favorable reviews and I would think it was some of his most approachable music to the masses in years (potentially regaining some casual fans that lost interest). He also got a larger cut on the album sales.

Now I think only Prince knows what his idea of success is, but I'm pretty sure he cares about the things I mentioned. I don't remeber when but in the past ten years he mentioned how he though the true count of how many Purple Rain albums sold was off. That to me is an indication that he might not be disappointed with the album, more influenced by the success.

Yes, I share the OP's view. It's of course just speculation as we can't get into Prince's head, but aside from the TRC period he hasn't really devoted himself to, well, being Prince. I was glad when he became successful again with his tours and how well the media has started to treat him after so many PR disasters, but c'mon, he's not even attempted to do an album that would be universally regarded as a masterpiece. His output has mostly had that "it's good enough to be released" vibe since Emancipation. A big part of Prince's appeal in the past was that he wanted to make sure people thought he was brilliant.

Wasnt it the 3rd or 4th highest selling 3-CD set of all time?

Personally, after Emancipation, Prince jumped the shark for me. He was all over the place, and not in a good way.

I think lotusflow3r proved that if he didn't get enough attention or subscriptions, he would lose interest. A lot of people spent money needlessly on that venture.

No. His infant baby died, his mariage too. The fact it did not have a hit single probably made things even worse. His "enthusiasm" was back with Rave, but that also did not work as planned commercially. Finally, he did the ONA tour and The Rainbow Children, which was his artistic/religious statement, he was enthusiastically recording music, but not for a wide audience. He returned to trying to seduce the masses with Musicology.

Ever since, Prince had his ups and downs but he seems to have decided he could work it out for one mode of writing or the other (more mass oriented, less mass oriented), and still come out with a profit.

[Edited 3/5/15 3:14am]

That part of EMI also went down at that time didn't it? Which kind of halted things before the next single was due.

It's doubtful Prince would've ever stuck with his "18 singles" guff any way. It wasn't really played well right from the start with the lead single, and it's doubtful if there's anything on Emancipation that would really set the singles chart on fire.

Aerogram said:

Whiskas31 said:

I remember when Prince was touting Emancipation as "the album he was born to make", and wanted to put it out as a 3 disk album (from what I understand) in a response to his previous anger at Warner Brothers for cutting Crystal Ball down to the 2 disk Sign o' the Times album. He clearly put a lot of effort into Emancipation, and in my opinion it contains some of Prince's strongest material (even though the production was poorly executed).

After it was released to a rather lackluster response from his fans and critics, he seemed to lose his way on the majority of his following albums, most notably Rave and New Power Soul, which seem to lack any feeling of enthusiasm or creativity. So my question is, do you think Emancipation's relative failure (by Prince's standards) affected Prince's career and output?

Aerogram said:

No. His infant baby died, his mariage too. The fact it did not have a hit single probably made things even worse. His "enthusiasm" was back with Rave, but that also did not work as planned commercially. Finally, he did the ONA tour and The Rainbow Children, which was his artistic/religious statement, he was enthusiastically recording music, but not for a wide audience. He returned to trying to seduce the masses with Musicology.

Ever since, Prince had his ups and downs but he seems to have decided he could work it out for one mode of writing or the other (more mass oriented, less mass oriented), and still come out with a profit.

[Edited 3/5/15 3:14am]

His marriage though did not until 1999

After the brilliant Come & The Gold Experience albums..

Emancipation was my very first Prince-album disappointment.

I did not like this album at all, when it was released in 1996, I was hugely disappointed.

However after several listenings during the years I have got used to the saccharine and plastic drums production...

I rate it about 8/10, which is rahter high after all..

Whiskas31 said:

I remember when Prince was touting Emancipation as "the album he was born to make", and wanted to put it out as a 3 disk album (from what I understand) in a response to his previous anger at Warner Brothers for cutting Crystal Ball down to the 2 disk Sign o' the Times album. He clearly put a lot of effort into Emancipation, and in my opinion it contains some of Prince's strongest material (even though the production was poorly executed).

After it was released to a rather lackluster response from his fans and critics, he seemed to lose his way on the majority of his following albums, most notably Rave and New Power Soul, which seem to lack any feeling of enthusiasm or creativity. So my question is, do you think Emancipation's relative failure (by Prince's standards) affected Prince's career and output?

Nah....studio release wise, Emancipation (given it's triple album price) ended up becoming one of Prince's most lucrative projects....

If anything Prince's personal life was more of enthusiasm killer than Emancipation, which by the way still stands as his most underrated statement....

thedance said:

After the brilliant Come & The Gold Experience albums..

Emancipation was my very first Prince-album disappointment.

I did not like this album at all, when it was released in 1996, I was hugely disappointed.

Same here. I should probably give it another listen, as my taste has changed since I bought that album. It's possible I'll like it more now than I did then.

My dumb azz has like 10 sealed copied in my collection and I don't like the album either.

Emancipation? No.

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic possibly.

I would prefer he released a 3 disc set every album, as i always prefer the stuff he keeps back in the vault, also this way we get more stuff. P records so much stuff he could easily do a double or triple album every album and he's not that great at picking the best stuff, so maybe then we can make our own single disc from each album.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Aerogram said:

No. His infant baby died, his mariage too. The fact it did not have a hit single probably made things even worse. His "enthusiasm" was back with Rave, but that also did not work as planned commercially. Finally, he did the ONA tour and The Rainbow Children, which was his artistic/religious statement, he was enthusiastically recording music, but not for a wide audience. He returned to trying to seduce the masses with Musicology.

Ever since, Prince had his ups and downs but he seems to have decided he could work it out for one mode of writing or the other (more mass oriented, less mass oriented), and still come out with a profit.

[Edited 3/5/15 3:14am]

His marriage though did not until 1999

Well, it wasn't finalized until then--but was he still big-upping his relationship with Mayte after that? That might have just been a matter of retreating from the fairly public approach to his private life and issues that he'd been following the last couple of years before the death, but I suspect there was a change (or even that the relationship was having problems before that, if it weren't for the pregnancy). Obviously I don't know, but relationships don't end with the official dissolution. They're over before that.

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I think it was mostly the personal life thing, though, and then a redirection. His connection to Larry Graham, his Bible study (which moved him away from the sort of New Age/spiritualist-inflected stuff he was exploring before that and that he had used in discussing his spiritual quest and his relationship with Mayte), his movement toward a more retro sound while working with some older influences (Graham and Chaka Khan). Yes, he used the "plastic production" (not my term, but people seem to have agreed upon it) on those three New Power Projects, but they were clearly not intended to storm the charts.

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Heck, it's quite possible (the way he thinks) that he felt he was being slapped down for hubris or for a misdirected spiritual path--regardless, I think he did pull back and inward, but I don't think it was Emancipation that did it. It was his personal situation. But Emancipation's failure was tied with the personal--everything was during that time. To think of it as a commercial flop "killing his enthusiasm" seems to off to me.

Accidental dupe post, but I'll go ahead and add this while I fix the error.

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I said a commercial flop above--yes, I'm aware that it sold some copies, but by the somewhat exaggerated standards Prince (and others) tended to set for his sales at the time, it was certainly a disappointment. I'm not sure Prince cared by the time the numbers were coming in--watch those promo appearances right after the release, or even the Emancipation release party. He was already done with it then. He wanted to put the whole thing behind him.

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[Edited 3/5/15 14:55pm]

Dandroppedadime said:

warning2all said:

The enthusiasm died after "3121". There was no good reason to release "Planet Earth". It plays like one of his 90's "contractual obligation" albums- minimum promotion, a throwaway. There was no reason to go about things this way. He can do whatever he wants, and he puts out a throwaway? Its not good to play games with the record buying public today. Give people quality efforts, or don't bother sullying your reputation and wasting people's $$$. After that- there's been no passion for any album released. Including AOA. He doesn't stay interested in any release for long. 2 reasons: 1) Prince is so eccentric and rich now he's lost touch with what used to motivate him. 2) His own albums don't excite even him. They're a payday- "#1 at the bank!'He just releases an album, 'cuz, " Why Not?" There's no drive like there was for "Sign o the Times", or " Parade". " Plectrum Electrum " is the closest to a project he's been totally invested in, in years. And it sucked. So, more than the "enthusiasm being killed", the creative well is dry--coupled with an intense drive not to give the fans what they want--the best of the Vault.

Totally agree with your thinking.

warning2all said:

The enthusiasm died after "3121". There was no good reason to release "Planet Earth". It plays like one of his 90's "contractual obligation" albums- minimum promotion, a throwaway. There was no reason to go about things this way. He can do whatever he wants, and he puts out a throwaway? Its not good to play games with the record buying public today. Give people quality efforts, or don't bother sullying your reputation and wasting people's $$$. After that- there's been no passion for any album released. Including AOA. He doesn't stay interested in any release for long. 2 reasons: 1) Prince is so eccentric and rich now he's lost touch with what used to motivate him. 2) His own albums don't excite even him. They're a payday- "#1 at the bank!'He just releases an album, 'cuz, " Why Not?" There's no drive like there was for "Sign o the Times", or " Parade". " Plectrum Electrum " is the closest to a project he's been totally invested in, in years. And it sucked. So, more than the "enthusiasm being killed", the creative well is dry--coupled with an intense drive not to give the fans what they want--the best of the Vault.

I think you've pretty much nailed it. Much as Prince fans keep a bit of hope up that he's going to release something worthy of his 80's and 90's material, I agree that his creative well has dried up and he's just coasting on his name and reputation, and releasing albums because he can.

Albums such as Musicology and AOA were hailed as 'comebacks' and fans raved over them because I think we are all desperate for Prince to have that one last great album before he retires. Yet both those albums and pretty much everything since 3121 have been quickly forgotten, because after the initial hype and the excitement that Prince can make an album that isn't completely shit, the blandness of those albums sets in pretty quickly.

After listening to AOA a few times, I listened to Graffiti Bridge and wondered how fans can dismiss it but hail AOA as a great album, when Grafitti Bridge has far more memorable moments and classic songs than AOA. I get the impression that us Prince fans are willing to accept far less from him these days, and fool ourselves into believing that his music is still of a decent standard.

With regards to 3121 being the last album he made before the enthusiasm died, it does seem like the last album that actually had the structure and sound of a Prince album (hard to define what a Prince album sounds like, but I hope you understand what I mean?!). From then on, he doesn't seem to know how to stay relevant with current music, or modern production.

3121?


I have never liked that album.

Art Official Age is much better, in my opinion.

thedance said:

Phillipg said:

I don't believe so, it do go double platinum IIRC.

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Based on ludicrous rules that said that a multi-album counted as two if each CD was at least 60 minutes long. Also, they were peddling leftover copies a decade later at €1 a piece because EMI still had warehouses full of the fuckers.

murph said:

Nah....studio release wise, Emancipation (given it's triple album price)

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It was sold at a vastly discounted price from the start.

NouveauDance said:

That part of EMI also went down at that time didn't it? Which kind of halted things before the next single was due.

It's doubtful Prince would've ever stuck with his "18 singles" guff any way. It wasn't really played well right from the start with the lead single, and it's doubtful if there's anything on Emancipation that would really set the singles chart on fire.

I think 'Right Back Here in my Arms' might have worked as a single. Maybe 'In This Bed I Scream'.

herb4 said:

NouveauDance said:

That part of EMI also went down at that time didn't it? Which kind of halted things before the next single was due.

It's doubtful Prince would've ever stuck with his "18 singles" guff any way. It wasn't really played well right from the start with the lead single, and it's doubtful if there's anything on Emancipation that would really set the singles chart on fire.

I think 'Right Back Here in my Arms' might have worked as a single.

Yeah that was one of the better tracks to me on the album.

just rerelase it with a dvd of the video album