master said:

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

Sweet, thanks, I'll check out the Moonraker version.

The Sab one is one to get called r u xperienced. A pity it was not full show in perfect sound as rest of show was great also.

Heh, I just downloaded the Sab version and then realised that I actually had a better version from 4DaFunk which is a combination of the soundboard and aud sources and fixes a lot of glitches in the Sab and Moonraker ones. The audience recording is still very good, obviously not as good as the soundboard but very clear all the same. The 4DaFunk version is called 37/2 and it seems to me to be the best version around.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

master said:

umfufu1 said:

I couldnt agree less with Master. When i listen to reign and other music (bootlegs, concerts or even regular lps) from that area and i compare that with the music he has been producing the last 10 years, it just makes me sad and i want a timewarp. Back to my first ahoy 86 concert where the band and concerts were well rehearsed and the show was tight. [Edited 3/8/15 0:53am]

The parade era sounds like they were rehearsed. Prince barely plays any instruments on parade tour but gives an energetic live performance. His backing musicians Wendy Lisa bobby z are good but they are not of the class of the later musicians. So when just listening to audio release it does not sound as good that is all. I enjoy the spotaneaty more than a rigid well rehearsed show. [Edited 3/8/15 3:44am] [Edited 3/8/15 6:34am]

Good points!

Fantastic. Listen to this right after watching Syracuse 85, and you've had an amazing day already.

CharismaDove said:

Fantastic. Listen to this right after watching Syracuse 85, and you've had an amazing day already.

Agreed

CharismaDove said:

Fantastic. Listen to this right after watching Syracuse 85, and you've had an amazing day already.

I have Syracuse 85! Gonna have to dig it out and listen again...

master said:

umfufu1 said:

I couldnt agree less with Master. When i listen to reign and other music (bootlegs, concerts or even regular lps) from that area and i compare that with the music he has been producing the last 10 years, it just makes me sad and i want a timewarp. Back to my first ahoy 86 concert where the band and concerts were well rehearsed and the show was tight. [Edited 3/8/15 0:53am]

The parade era sounds like they were rehearsed. Prince barely plays any instruments on parade tour but gives an energetic live performance. His backing musicians Wendy Lisa bobby z are good but they are not of the class of the later musicians. So when just listening to audio release it does not sound as good that is all. I enjoy the spotaneaty more than a rigid well rehearsed show. [Edited 3/8/15 3:44am] [Edited 3/8/15 6:34am]

This is true. Personally i'd rather hear rawness, personality and, well, mistakes than his pitch-perfect later bands (and I generally like all of prince's bands). Revolution will always win for me.

KingSausage said:

.

[Edited 3/9/15 11:32am]

jaawwnn said:

master said:

umfufu1 said: The parade era sounds like they were rehearsed. Prince barely plays any instruments on parade tour but gives an energetic live performance. His backing musicians Wendy Lisa bobby z are good but they are not of the class of the later musicians. So when just listening to audio release it does not sound as good that is all. I enjoy the spotaneaty more than a rigid well rehearsed show. [Edited 3/8/15 3:44am] [Edited 3/8/15 6:34am]

This is true. Personally i'd rather hear rawness, personality and, well, mistakes than his pitch-perfect later bands (and I generally like all of prince's bands). Revolution will always win for me.

I love that thing too, even when it comes down to the style.

One of the reasons we don't have live Prince cds is because Prince needs them to sound perfect.

I actually love listening the 8.3.1983 Purple Rain version because of it's rawness and the rehearsed feel of it, I love the parts edited out

But he has a point about the Revolution not being the best musicians Prince has around him.

The SOTT and Lovesexy bands were unbelieveable when it came to giving Him the freedom to improvise, something he did much less of when he was with the Revolution.

And the 4 piece he took to Montreaux in 2009 was just insanely good (Rhonda, Blackwell, Neto).

Even He said "you dont need a big band, when you have THIS band."

Stimpy said:

But he has a point about the Revolution not being the best musicians Prince has around him.

The SOTT and Lovesexy bands were unbelieveable when it came to giving Him the freedom to improvise, something he did much less of when he was with the Revolution.

And the 4 piece he took to Montreaux in 2009 was just insanely good (Rhonda, Blackwell, Neto).

Even He said "you dont need a big band, when you have THIS band."

We really can judge side by side a band from 1980-1986 and a band from 1997-2001

the former being much younger and the latter being much older, which means one group being judged at a time 'weren't playing as long' and latter group being judged were playing by 2001 for a long time

.

It's almost like judging yourself at age 17 vs 37
I mean in 1984 that was Wendy's first band at 19 and she handled herself well for the role she sat in. Was anyone lucky enough to get to any of those say "Oh I wish the band would improvise more?"

.

The other thing is by 1987 the work was done that got Prince to that freedom. In 1981 Prince wasn't ready for a bunch of improvision. Mostly because his music did not need it. Outside of different arrangements I don't care for a bunch of improvision with his music. It's always been so unique to me and to hear it rendered live was awesome, and the Revolution delivered.

.

Another note, I heard/seen a lot of shows and I don't know what more improvision Prince was looking for, from letting him cut loose on jack his guitar on Head, improvising while he teased the audiences and did things on brass beds. Songs like Purple Rain, America Baby I'm a Star live sometimes 30 min of jamming these songs with all kinds of changes and twists...how much more improvision?

.

How Prince wanted to the PR tour to flow vs Parade tour are 2 different experiences. I don't think we can 'blame' the band for doing what Prince wanted. He needed his shows to be structured a certain way so he could be the showman he wanted.

.

Again there are many examples of shows that prove they were free to allow improvision, the 1985 Birthday show/Masquerade Ball was a perfect example. at that time Prince and band were experimenting with new sound and directions, and that show as non stop improvising jamming trying new songs/styles.

.

Prior to PR 1983/84 Prince's music was in a certain vein of style. It wasn't till the PR music that you hear all kinds of new instrumentation, actual horns, flutes, violins, percussions, steele drums, string sections, finger cymbals, Arabic instruments etc So it was actually with those in the camp at that point that did bring a lot of sounds and styles to the table. Prince wasn't there yet in 1980 or 1981

.

Listen to any SOTT show, there wasn't a bunch of improvision on that tour, it was well rehearsed at Prince did a good job making it look like it was on the spot improvision. Sheila E's drum solo was the same drum solo she was doing since 1985 Romance 1600 and then she did it on her 1991 Sex Symbol album. There are a lot of riffs done on the SOTT tour that they carried over from the Parade tour.

.

Listen to the March 8 1982 off night show Bambi When U Were Mine Head Sexuality PartyUp All the Critics Love U, that was none stop 'freedom to improve' again another very loose 'non structured' show

Listen to the 1986 Minnesota Music Award show when they did long versions of Kiss Love or Money Controversy/Mutiny.

When you listen to any off tour shows with the Revolution or the 1980-1986 band you get a different flow of music vs the actual structured tour nights. But again that's how Prince needed it.

.

Even when you listen to the small club Lovesexy aftershows, songs like Just My Imagination was the same thing each time same guitar solo etc. I remember listening to one where they 'introducd' Rave he made it seem like they made up that 'New Power' beat right there. the illusion was many of those songs were made up on the spot. But that stuff was already being worked out in the studio

.

Look at Let's Go Crazy. the best changes of the song were with the Revolution either doing the short version, the long version, mixing in Delirious etc. During the SOTT shows and after it has mostly been the same rendition with the Go Go Go piece 1987-2009 it's been the same rendition.

.

I'm not puttind down any of the wonderful musicians he's had after. Just saying the excuse of 'improvision' never works for me because (something Prince wishes never happened) we/I have many copies of these shows and tour to actually listen to. Again I've always loved that unique Prince sound found in 1979-1989 and hearing it rendered live is magic, a little change here and there was always cool and always happened. But love it as is. Many latter 1990's/2000's albums had songs that weren't so uniquely designed like his earlier songs so Prince doing all kinds of stuff with them was refreshing. But just listening to this 1984 Birthday show gives too many examples of the Revolution improvising with Prince and flowing into where he wanted to go. Every song doesn't need a bunch of improvision. But when you listen to Noon Rendezvous Erotic City Something In the Water on this show is straight improvising that was magical.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Even when you listen to the small club Lovesexy aftershows, songs like Just My Imagination was the same thing each time same guitar solo etc. I remember listening to one where they 'introducd' Rave he made it seem like they made up that 'New Power' beat right there. the illusion was many of those songs were made up on the spot. But that stuff was already being worked out in the studio

.

That's obviously wrong.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Even when you listen to the small club Lovesexy aftershows, songs like Just My Imagination was the same thing each time same guitar solo etc. I remember listening to one where they 'introducd' Rave he made it seem like they made up that 'New Power' beat right there. the illusion was many of those songs were made up on the spot. But that stuff was already being worked out in the studio

.

That's obviously wrong.

you r being nit picky

Of course it is not the exact same copy, but he is playing a similar guitar solo for the song each time. Nothing wrong with that.

master said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

We really can judge side by side a band from 1980-1986 and a band from 1997-2001

the former being much younger and the latter being much older, which means one group being judged at a time 'weren't playing as long' and latter group being judged were playing by 2001 for a long time

It's almost like judging yourself at age 17 vs 37
I mean in 1984 that was Wendy's first band at 19 and she handled herself well for the role she sat in.

The other thing is by 1987 the work was done that got Prince to that freedom. In 1981 Prince wasn't ready for a bunch of improvision. Mostly because his music did not need it. Outside of different arrangements I don't care for a bunch of improvision with his music. It's always been so unique to me and to hear it rendered live was awesome, and the Revolution delivered.

Another note, I heard/seen a lot of shows and I don't know what more improvision Prince was looking for, from letting him cut loose on jack his guitar on Head, improvising while he teased the audiences and did things on brass beds. Songs like Purple Rain, America Baby I'm a Star live sometimes 30 min of jamming these songs with all kinds of changes and twists...how much more improvision?

How Prince wanted to the PR tour to flow vs Parade tour are 2 different experiences. I don't think we can 'blame' the band for doing what Prince wanted. He needed his shows to be structured a certain way so he could be the showman he wanted.

.

Again there are many examples of shows that prove they were free to allow improvision, the 1985 Birthday show/Masquerade Ball was a perfect example. at that time Prince and band were experimenting with new sound and directions, and that show as non stop improvising jamming trying new songs/styles.

.

Prior to PR 1983/84 Prince's music was in a certain vein of style. It wasn't till the PR music that you hear all kinds of new instrumentation, actual horns, flutes, violins, percussions, steele drums, string sections, finger cymbals, Arabic instruments etc So it was actually with those in the camp at that point that did bring a lot of sounds and styles to the table. Prince wasn't there yet in 1980 or 1981

.

Listen to any SOTT show, there wasn't a bunch of improvision on that tour, it was well rehearsed at Prince did a good job making it look like it was on the spot improvision. Sheila E's drum solo was the same drum solo she was doing since 1985 Romance 1600 and then she did it on her 1991 Sex Symbol album. There are a lot of riffs done on the SOTT tour that they carried over from the Parade tour.

.

Listen to the 1986 Minnesota Music Award show when they did long versions of Kiss Love or Money Controversy/Mutiny.

When you listen to any off tour shows with the Revolution or the 1980-1986 band you get a different flow of music vs the actual structured tour nights. But again that's how Prince needed it.

.

Even when you listen to the small club Lovesexy aftershows, songs like Just My Imagination was the same thing each time same guitar solo etc. I remember listening to one where they 'introducd' Rave he made it seem like they made up that 'New Power' beat right there. the illusion was many of those songs were made up on the spot. But that stuff was already being worked out in the studio

.

Look at Let's Go Crazy. the best changes of the song were with the Revolution either doing the short version, the long version, mixing in Delirious etc. During the SOTT shows and after it has mostly been the same rendition with the Go Go Go piece 1987-2009 it's been the same rendition.

.

I'm not putting down any of the wonderful musicians he's had after. Just saying the excuse of 'improvision' never works for me because (something Prince wishes never happened) we/I have many copies of these shows and tour to actually listen to. Again I've always loved that unique Prince sound found in 1979-1989 and hearing it rendered live is magic, a little change here and there was always cool and always happened. But love it as is. Many latter 1990's/2000's albums had songs that weren't so uniquely designed like his earlier songs so Prince doing all kinds of stuff with them was refreshing. But just listening to this 1984 Birthday show gives too many examples of the Revolution improvising with Prince and flowing into where he wanted to go. Every song doesn't need a bunch of improvision. But when you listen to Noon Rendezvous Erotic City Something In the Water on this show is straight improvising that was magical.

the release with ziggodome 2014 also as highlights from Vienna 2014. Is guitar playing in Vienna is Really good and is about on a par with that run of erotic city noon rondevouz etc. It also shows how I took some of same songs from ziggodome and made it interesting by improvising on them in vienna. Do you remember that baby I'm star from Syracuse that was lacklustre. So back then unless its prince playing the improvisation did not quite pay off for me. Look at the acoustic set from 2002 xenonphobia shows even is guitar playing is better now. I think people expect the dance moves of the 80s from a guy mid 50s he would get burnt out. He is too old to do a show like that so your expectations have to change. [Edited 3/9/15 11:48am] [Edited 3/9/15 11:52am]

I don't know what your point is, I mean that to get clarity. My post was mostly about the bands and improvisions etc

Maybe Syracuse 85 was lack luster but LA 85 was crazy electric That is one that I still can't get enough of. And again Prince would pick Syracuse to video because he wanted it more controlled. He should have sold the LA show

Is that the only show you've heard? the PR Syracuse show, cause I've heard a lot of them

again in response to my post I don't quite understand your post

.

No where am I saying he played better guitar then versus now.
Actually part of my post is saying to compare anyones playing at 26 vs 56 is unfair it should be expected the 56 yr old is better, aren't you better at things you love doing now versus before?

... dance moves and such. Of course he's going to move different then vs now. I agree I don't expect him to do the same things he did jumping on stage like in 1986 or 87

.
I don't want to go to far without understanding if you are replying to me or actually others judging Prince now versus then?

We can do a thread on some of those shows you mentioned

OldFriends4Sale said: