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Thread started 12/24/14 6:47am

alxndrstff

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Would The Undertaker album have made an impact?

It's possible I'm a bit too young - I'd have only been 14/15 at the time it was due to be released - but I wondered how people felt the Undertaker album would have went down had it been released as planned?

Because I'm thinking - here's a guy losing out in the PR stakes big time due to the name change and very few people understanding it, and the biggest song being pushed is The Most Beautiful Girl in the World around that time, which doesn't appeal to certain music fans at all.

Given the raw, live feel of the album, the classy guitar play on show, and the nature of how he was giving it away in a magazine that was still somewhat relevant then, would The Undertaker have went down better with casual listeners and retained a bit of the credibility Prince has lost since the whole name change?

Or would it have been lost in the fold amongst everything else he was doing at the time?

So look into the mirror, do u recognise some1? Is it who u always hoped u would become, when u were young?
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Reply #1 posted 12/24/14 7:14am

thedoorkeeper

No it would not have made an impact.
There was nothing that could have been released
as a single and it would have flopped unless
some brilliant promotional campaign had
shoved it down peoples throats.
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Reply #2 posted 12/24/14 8:56am

BlackCandle

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At the time, I don't think it would have made an impact.
It would definitely have been lost in the mix.

Remember, however, that it was only intended as a giveaway with a Guitar Magazine.

However, an official release may have meant that years down the line, it would have become deservedly far more highly regarded than it is and perhaps have reached slightly wider audience who don't fully appreciate Princes Guitar skills. Ironically, in the current musical climate this album would probably do well if Prince released it now.

Compare The Undertaker to Plectrumelectrum and there's really only one winner.
That they recorded it in one take is amazing.

The version of Bambi on here is by far my favourite.
"Had to get off the boat so I could walk on water..."
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Reply #3 posted 12/24/14 9:31am

Pentacle

I don't get the love for this album. It's even more boring than Kamasutra.
Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #4 posted 12/24/14 9:42am

lezama

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If it was released as intended with guitar player magazine I think it would have helped cement (earlier) Prince as the guitar legend that he is. I feel it took a lot longer for that perception to take hold with the mass public because during that period of time his music wasn't played much on rock stations.

Change it one more time..
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Reply #5 posted 12/24/14 10:11am

NoVideo

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Only die-hard Prince fans would have noticed it.

* * *

Prince's Classic Finally Expanded
The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue

http://www.popmatters.com...n-reissue/
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Reply #6 posted 12/24/14 3:02pm

sovembol

NoVideo said:

Only die-hard Prince fans would have noticed it.

Exactly.. So it's Already made the impact it's going to! The Album and Video are well recieved here.. I never understand why we have to wonder/worry what the general music consumer thinks.

And I'm not sure of the OP's idea on The Most Beautiful Girl In The World? It was one his Biggest hits ever and if I remember correctly his first #1 in the UK. It was a huge sucess for Prince. He did it himself independently and under his new name.

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Reply #7 posted 12/24/14 5:38pm

djThunderfunk

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It would have made an impact for fans of musicianship who at the time wrote Prince off because of his image and who were unaware of his guitar skills and musical range. These are the kind of people who would not buy his pop albums but would buy the magazine. I've used the set to convince many of this type of music fan that Prince was more than the pop idol they saw in videos. It's right up there with the While My Guitar Gently Weeps performance from R&RHOF for getting the attention of this type of music fan. Usually these are also the type of people who have zero interest in "hits", so that would not have been an issue either.

lezama said:

If it was released as intended with guitar player magazine I think it would have helped cement (earlier) Prince as the guitar legend that he is. I feel it took a lot longer for that perception to take hold with the mass public because during that period of time his music wasn't played much on rock stations.

lezama said it perfectly!!

Pentacle said:

I don't get the love for this album. It's even more boring than Kamasutra.

Wow! ...just, Wow!

You trolling or serious? lol

Liberty > Authority
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Reply #8 posted 12/24/14 6:47pm

ThomasBjj

I thought I was pretty aware of all things Prince back in that day, and I was really unaware of this project until well after it was canned. Here in U.S. we did not have easy access to the video either.

I like the album, and at one time owned a legit CD of this project. Sold it off many years ago for a ton of money. That said, I dont think it was amazing enough to make any impact. There are plent of tracks throughout his other albums that are way better than any material on Undertaker, and they have all be largely ignored by the mainstream

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Reply #9 posted 12/24/14 10:15pm

williamb610

Poor Goo

poor goo-oo

wa da lan

"she don't wanna...eat...trix"

I'd buy it today if he released it. Playing Poor Goo on radio would blow away most of the drivel that they play on rock radio, anyway.

Maybe one day, the album will see the light!

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Reply #10 posted 12/25/14 12:12am

datdude

i don't have t his or haven't heard it, can someone post a tracklist? i think it'd be interesting to see indiv. "singles"

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Reply #11 posted 12/25/14 12:52am

kenkamken

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datdude said:

i don't have t his or haven't heard it, can someone post a tracklist? i think it'd be interesting to see indiv. "singles"

  1. "The Ride" – 10:54
  2. "Poor Goo" – 4:26
  3. "Honky Tonk Women" – 3:00
  4. "Bambi" – 4:49
  5. "Zannalee (Prelude)" - 0:44
  6. "The Undertaker" – 9:50
  7. "Dolphin" – 3:40

"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
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Reply #12 posted 12/25/14 1:07am

datdude

thanks so much for posting that. so i guess i need to hear The Ride and The Undertaker to see what I think. HTW is a cover and the others are songs we'd heard (or would soon hear). What was Glass Cutter on? I've heard that title and assumed it was on The Undertaker too

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Reply #13 posted 12/25/14 2:06am

BartVanHemelen

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datdude said:

i don't have t his or haven't heard it, can someone post a tracklist?

.

Visiting Princevault is such a chore, right?

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #14 posted 12/25/14 3:08am

Pentacle

Pentacle said:

I don't get the love for this album. It's even more boring than Kamasutra.

Wow! ...just, Wow!

You trolling or serious? lol



I'm very serious. I love The Ride and The Undertaker in almost all other live (full band) incarnations, and Zannalee and Dolphin in their studio incarnations, but here it's absolute meeeeeh. It's like a 45 minute soundcheck - of tuning the instruments and noodling.

I would argue that those championing Poor Goo are trolling....


Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #15 posted 12/25/14 4:25am

SuperSoulFight
er

I never understood why WB didn't allow him to do this. It would not have hurt his album sales and, like Thunderfunk said, would have introduced him to a new audience. And it surely would have helped the sales of the magazine- all the Prince fans would've bought it! Such a shame that I have to use the words "would have" all the time, I think it was a great idea, a win-win situation for everybody.
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Reply #16 posted 12/25/14 4:50am

MoBettaBliss

no

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Reply #17 posted 12/25/14 7:13am

TrevorAyer

i finally heard this album recently ... had been praised so much on the org .. turns out WB was right .. undertaker is rubbish and should never have seen the light of day .. the guitar playing is some of P's worse and the songs are crap .. i really like the live undertaker with horns version .. much much better .. poor goo is just stupid .. and the rest sounds half assed

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Reply #18 posted 12/25/14 8:12am

thedoorkeeper

SuperSoulFighter said:

I never understood why WB didn't allow him to do this.

1- WB would not have benefited financially from
a give away cd.
2 - WB felt Prince released too much music.
3 - WB had a contract with Prince - letting him do
this would have opened the door to more shenanigans
from Prince and his problems with their contract.
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Reply #19 posted 12/25/14 11:19am

SuperSoulFight
er

Okay, that answers the question, but I still don't think it was a good idea!
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Reply #20 posted 12/25/14 11:22am

feeluupp

So much unfinished stuff from this period that ended up not being put together well...

All the stuff he could've released into one album in 94 ended up being a condensed version of Come... So much potential from 93-94 era but I guess the WB fued got the better.

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Reply #21 posted 12/26/14 6:43am

djThunderfunk

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TrevorAyer said:

undertaker is rubbish and should never have seen the light of day .. the guitar playing is some of P's worse and the songs are crap ..

Right.... nuts

Liberty > Authority
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Reply #22 posted 12/26/14 7:58am

udo

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Found it!!!1!!

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #23 posted 12/26/14 8:32am

djThunderfunk

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udo said:

Found it!!!1!!



confuse Surely you're not saying that you were unaware of this disc?!? That can't be possible...

Liberty > Authority
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Reply #24 posted 12/26/14 9:02am

LittlePurpleYo
da

It would have appealed to some and not to others. The original post cites TMBGITW, not being everyone's cup of tea. The same can easily be said of these arguably throwaway guitar jams. Yes, it's nice to hear Prince shred on guitar, and many of us enjoy it, but there isn't a lot of stylistic difference in what we hear and stuff like Poor Goo is clearly filler. It'd have been nice to not have to find unofficially, but as far as impact, hardly any.
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Reply #25 posted 12/26/14 10:46am

MIRvmn

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Love this album cool
Welcome 2 The Dawn
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Reply #26 posted 12/26/14 12:27pm

Noodled24

The plan was to give it away with a Guitar mag. Would it have had an impact...

On the charts no. Honky Tonk Woman would have been the only possible single. Brit pop was big at the time. It may have drawn some focus to his musicianship.

On Prince's reputation? Yes. Because people who play guitar would have been exposed to a completely different "Prince". Not the crooning prettyboy from TMBGITW. People who assumed Prince was all ballads thing would hear him stripped down (other than his pedal board).

Its not a "great album". There is nothing massively commercial or catchy, there is no superb songwriting. It's alternate versions and a cover recorded in the form of a soundcheck/rehersal. But because it was never actually released it's a marvelous curiosity. It's a stripped down wahwah drenched straight rock album. Michael B is incredible throughout, Sonny has a fairly easy job and Prince seems to avoid his usual colourful touches and we hear some lower octave soloing. Which is in part (to me) what makes it such an interesting listen.

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Reply #27 posted 12/26/14 3:08pm

TheEnglishGent

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sovembol said:

NoVideo said:

Only die-hard Prince fans would have noticed it.

Exactly.. So it's Already made the impact it's going to! The Album and Video are well recieved here.. I never understand why we have to wonder/worry what the general music consumer thinks.

And I'm not sure of the OP's idea on The Most Beautiful Girl In The World? It was one his Biggest hits ever and if I remember correctly his first #1 in the UK. It was a huge sucess for Prince. He did it himself independently and under his new name.

First and only number 1 in the UK.

RIP sad
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Reply #28 posted 12/26/14 3:17pm

KoolEaze

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alxndrstff said:

It's possible I'm a bit too young - I'd have only been 14/15 at the time it was due to be released - but I wondered how people felt the Undertaker album would have went down had it been released as planned?

Because I'm thinking - here's a guy losing out in the PR stakes big time due to the name change and very few people understanding it, and the biggest song being pushed is The Most Beautiful Girl in the World around that time, which doesn't appeal to certain music fans at all.

Given the raw, live feel of the album, the classy guitar play on show, and the nature of how he was giving it away in a magazine that was still somewhat relevant then, would The Undertaker have went down better with casual listeners and retained a bit of the credibility Prince has lost since the whole name change?

Or would it have been lost in the fold amongst everything else he was doing at the time?

It all depends on how you personally define "impact".

First of all, while I did not like The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, it was a huge hit, especially in the UK. It was his last great hit to this date and reached the top of the charts and Prince was all over the radio back then, so while we may dislike TMBGITW, it was still an undeniabale success (I did like the Mustang Mix version though....absolutely loved it).

-

.

You are making some very valid points as far as the raw feeling of that album goes. You are absolutely right that The Undertaker album, especially released as a free giveaway with a respected guitar magazine, would´ve helped cement Prince´s reputation as a serious musician in general and as a guitar player in general.

Most of my non-Prince-fan fans went absolutely nuts when they first heard that album in my car back then, and I´m talking about real music afficionados here who didn´t even know it was Prince. So, yes, it would have helped to make him more respected than he already was and maybe refreshed the memories of those who started to doubt him.

It also helped that it was, unlike 3rd Eye Girl, a gimmick-free project. Just Prince and Sonny and Michael, his tightest band to this day (and yes, I´m a huge Revolution fan but let´s not go there now). lol

.

.

Commercially and as far as WB´s interests go, this would probably not have made a huge impact but then again, why not? It could´ve helped him to win new fans or at least made even more people interested in his live shows. ( Some shows of the 1995 Ultimate Live Experience tour were not that successful due to the lack of classic Prince material being played, and due to lack of promotion).

Also, this was during a time when Prince was rather fan friendly and before he started sueing his dedicated fanbase left and right, and when even the most skeptical Prince haters were still fans, so yes, I believe releasing this album as a free giveaway would´ve shed a very positive light on Prince in the long run, albeit not necessarily in a commercial sense in that very moment.

You are also right about some critics ridiculing him during the time right after the name change and maybe a release like this could´ve silenced at least some of those critics.

.

.

I think the choice of songs, while I personally was not that fond of some song choices back then, was quite good....a Rolling Stones cover, a long version of the bluesy Undertaker, the hard and no frills take on Bambi, and the psychedelic feel of it all were quite amazing back then.

I still own the original VHS tape that was sold and distributed by WB back then but I have no idea how successful it was in terms of sales.

.

I think an interview or some sort of liner notes also would´ve helped. I mean, it is pretty cool and amazing that this was recorded in one take after 3 a.m and it was all a very spontaneous thing. Which, again, just goes to show you how tight Prince, Sonny and Michael were back then.

Let´s also not forget about Morris Hayes and Tommy B. (who were not part of this session, but still....).

The storyline was a bit silly but hey, we never expected great storylines after all those previously released short films with questionable plots.

This project was, in my opinion, a wasted opportunity on WB´s behalf. It´s a good thing that they released the VHS tape and I understand why they blocked it but in terms of public relations, this would´ve been a smart idea.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #29 posted 12/26/14 3:37pm

KoolEaze

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Noodled24 said:

The plan was to give it away with a Guitar mag. Would it have had an impact...

On the charts no. Honky Tonk Woman would have been the only possible single. Brit pop was big at the time. It may have drawn some focus to his musicianship.

On Prince's reputation? Yes. Because people who play guitar would have been exposed to a completely different "Prince". Not the crooning prettyboy from TMBGITW. People who assumed Prince was all ballads thing would hear him stripped down (other than his pedal board).

Its not a "great album". There is nothing massively commercial or catchy, there is no superb songwriting. It's alternate versions and a cover recorded in the form of a soundcheck/rehersal. But because it was never actually released it's a marvelous curiosity. It's a stripped down wahwah drenched straight rock album. Michael B is incredible throughout, Sonny has a fairly easy job and Prince seems to avoid his usual colourful touches and we hear some lower octave soloing. Which is in part (to me) what makes it such an interesting listen.

Great post, you summed it up nicely. Exactly how I feel about it.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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