In my days, I have come across funksters who swear by anything George Clinton did with P-Funk/Funkadelic, and dismiss Prince's music as "not being funky enough".

So my question is this to the Purple Nation......

When comparing Prince's style of heavily James Brown influenced guitar and horn arrangements, against Groups who are widely known for Funk such as Zapp & Roger, and P-Funk/Funkadelic, whats your analysis of which Brand of "funk" is best?? How do you come to that conclusion?

It's clear Zapp & Roger, & P-Funk were a much heavier influence in Hip Hop and Urban music in the late 80's and early 90's. Does that give those acts an edge in funksmanship over Prince?

Groups like Steve Arrington and Slave, Gap Band, Mtume, are well known for funky music - and P's answer to a lot of these types of groups was "The Time", and the monster Funk he composed for those albums.

We all know who the Best Musician and Songwriter is by a mile, but when we put all bets aside, and disregard the sexy genuis piano & guitar ballads, the pop megahits, where does his Purple Majesty rank in terms of Funksmanship, among the alltime perveyors of funk????

(I kind of built this out like a college essay question. Should b fun to think about and answer ya'll!)

[Edited 10/25/14 16:24pm]

I believe this should answer your question... (7mins 29 seconds for the story of the funk)

Prince can pull it out anytime. It's pretty rare that he does these days, seems to be all about the slow jams.

[Edited 10/25/14 17:05pm]

The difference is that Prince did not singularly focus on the funk. He did everything while Zapp and Parliament, etc focused completely on the funk (Parliament saved their rock stuff for the much less mainstream Funkadelic albums). That being said, when Prince did bring the funk, he was right there...on the same level, if not better. It's the same argument as all those folks who say The Time "turned Prince out" on the 1999 tour. The folks that say that are mostly the "brothas" who came to hear the funk...they had no interest in hearing Lisa do 6 minute keyboard interludes.

[Edited 10/25/14 20:07pm]

prince made an absolute funk statement with controversy and lets work. and then again on dmsr and lady cab driver. he had the other funksters scared.but he was obviously inspired by roger and pfunk.

UncleJam said:

The difference is that Prince did not singularly focus on the funk. He did everything while Zapp and Parliament, etc focused completely on the funk (Parliament saved their rock stuff for the much less mainstream Funkadelic albums). That being said, when Prince did bring the funk, he was right there...on the same level, if not better. It's the same argument as all those folks who say The Time "turned Prince out" on the 1999 tour. The folks that say that are mostly the "brothas" who came to hear the funk...they had no interest in hearing Lisa do 6 minute keyboard interludes.

You bring up a very good point.Prince plays so many styles,but in doing so,there were times when he alienated the hardcore funk fans.I have a friend who's a huge fan of funk...he loves Sly,George Clinton,James Brown,Cameo,etc.He once told me that "Prince sold out a long time ago....he don't care about funk....he only wants to do pop and rock" it's sad,but many hardcore funk fans think that way.

Classic thread about Prince's funkiness here - http://prince.org/msg/7/279744

[Edited 10/27/14 8:18am]

SoulAlive said:

UncleJam said:

The difference is that Prince did not singularly focus on the funk. He did everything while Zapp and Parliament, etc focused completely on the funk (Parliament saved their rock stuff for the much less mainstream Funkadelic albums). That being said, when Prince did bring the funk, he was right there...on the same level, if not better. It's the same argument as all those folks who say The Time "turned Prince out" on the 1999 tour. The folks that say that are mostly the "brothas" who came to hear the funk...they had no interest in hearing Lisa do 6 minute keyboard interludes.

You bring up a very good point.Prince plays so many styles,but in doing so,there were times when he alienated the hardcore funk fans.I have a friend who's a huge fan of funk...he loves Sly,George Clinton,James Brown,Cameo,etc.He once told me that "Prince sold out a long time ago....he don't care about funk....he only wants to do pop and rock" it's sad,but many hardcore funk fans think that way.

As my handle on this board here suggest I love the funk. I agree that Prince is not seen as a major funk force by most pure funk lovers. Personally I love that Prince delved into pop and other territories but fact is he didn't make many tunes that qualify as pure funk. But when he does funk he can do it as good as Roger or any of the other funkateers. I wish Prince would do funk more often though, he is very good at it!

UncleJam said:

The difference is that Prince did not singularly focus on the funk. He did everything while Zapp and Parliament, etc focused completely on the funk (Parliament saved their rock stuff for the much less mainstream Funkadelic albums). That being said, when Prince did bring the funk, he was right there...on the same level, if not better. It's the same argument as all those folks who say The Time "turned Prince out" on the 1999 tour. The folks that say that are mostly the "brothas" who came to hear the funk...they had no interest in hearing Lisa do 6 minute keyboard interludes.

[Edited 10/25/14 20:07pm]

I'll take it further in saying Roger/Zapp stay on the synth-driven funk a lot longer than Prince ever did. But we can not overlook the fact that Prince made his point hard and clear with synth-funk classics such as Let's Work, 1999, Lets Pretend We're Married, & Automatic.

[Edited 10/27/14 7:38am]

Prince did the best funk stuff of the 1980s.

It's a very simple answer and everybody into funk knows that's the case. Some might argue otherwise, but they're just trying to appear knowledgeable. They're the same bunch of people that appear on all kinds of Internet forums trying to tell what the people on the forum are most into is not the real deal ("it's not real pizza unless the mozzarella used on it is the same kind of mozzarella they used in Italy in the 19th century and unless the thickness of the crust is within specific limits" etc.). Seriously, those people can go fuck themselves. George Clinton would tell them to go fuck themselves. Prince's only competition in the 1980s came from the bands that preceded him and many of those bands started borrowing a lot from him when Prince perfected his sound, George Clinton & co. included.

While I love Prince's funk and think he is as funky as anyone, the problem is thinking of Prince in terms of being a "Funk Artst," and he's much more than a "Funk Artist." Now, I love Troutman and Parliament/Funkadelic, but I can only listen to about ten Troutman songs before I get bored with the similarity. Of course, Parliament/Funkadelic has a wider range/category of songs. So, while Prince is funky, his funk is often laced, cut, or watered down, if you will, with other elements. That's not a good or bad thing, just a Prince thing. So, I don't go to Prince just for Funk. Ultimately, Prince's work is like a pie chart in which funk is just one slice of the chart. The problem is when folks want the entire pie to be just funk, but that's never been Prince. So, while Prince is greatly influenced by the great funk legends, he's equally influenced by the great rock, soul, blues, and gospel legends. So, his funk will never be like anybody else's funk. As such, I enjoy his ability to amalgamate sounds into his own style, which is as much funky as it is soulful and rocking.

1725topp said:

While I love Prince's funk and think he is as funky as anyone, the problem is thinking of Prince in terms of being a "Funk Artst," and he's much more than a "Funk Artist." Now, I love Troutman and Parliament/Funkadelic, but I can only listen to about ten Troutman songs before I get bored with the similarity. Of course, Parliament/Funkadelic has a wider range/category of songs. So, while Prince is funky, his funk is often laced, cut, or watered down, if you will, with other elements. That's not a good or bad thing, just a Prince thing. So, I don't go to Prince just for Funk. Ultimately, Prince's work is like a pie chart in which funk is just one slice of the chart. The problem is when folks want the entire pie to be just funk, but that's never been Prince. So, while Prince is greatly influenced by the great funk legends, he's equally influenced by the great rock, soul, blues, and gospel legends. So, his funk will never be like anybody else's funk. As such, I enjoy his ability to amalgamate sounds into his own style, which is as much funky as it is soulful and rocking.

You nailed it....it's Princey funk. I don't see what the problem is.

People panic and run around with their hair on fire like Prince is being insulted or something. Saying that Prince is not a pure funk artist is not a bad thing at all but we now have people saying that purist should go f*ck themselves as though every genre doesn't have it's purists?

novabrkr said:

Prince did the best funk stuff of the 1980s.

It's a very simple answer and everybody into funk knows that's the case. Some might argue otherwise, but they're just trying to appear knowledgeable. They're the same bunch of people that appear on all kinds of Internet forums trying to tell what the people on the forum are most into is not the real deal ("it's not real pizza unless the mozzarella used on it is the same kind of mozzarella they used in Italy in the 19th century and unless the thickness of the crust is within specific limits" etc.). Seriously, those people can go fuck themselves. George Clinton would tell them to go fuck themselves. Prince's only competition in the 1980s came from the bands that preceded him and many of those bands started borrowing a lot from him when Prince perfected his sound, George Clinton & co. included.

Uncalled for.

UncleJam said:

The difference is that Prince did not singularly focus on the funk. He did everything while Zapp and Parliament, etc focused completely on the funk (Parliament saved their rock stuff for the much less mainstream Funkadelic albums). That being said, when Prince did bring the funk, he was right there...on the same level, if not better. It's the same argument as all those folks who say The Time "turned Prince out" on the 1999 tour. The folks that say that are mostly the "brothas" who came to hear the funk...they had no interest in hearing Lisa do 6 minute keyboard interludes.

[Edited 10/25/14 20:07pm]

Yeah I agree, it's hard to compare because is not JUST a funk artist, he has a strong pop side that was ever more proeminent in his succesful years, and there's also a very strong emotional/romantic side to his music that may be hard to understand by cold-hearted funkateers. Most of the funkateers who dislike his work hardly know it at all. I am a huge fan of funk, I'm totally into P-Funk, Zapp, James (Rick and Brown ) and everyone else but honest, in the end, the deadliest, funkiest mothafuckin' grooves I ever heard were for a good 80% of them jams by . There's no contest, he would make anyone bite the dust. I had friends who were totally into funk and quite ignorant of 's works. I made them listen to the right jams, they were blown away and became instant fans! Try it with your friends, the really agressive, long jams, u'll see they'll bite.

-

babynoz said:

novabrkr said:

Prince did the best funk stuff of the 1980s.

It's a very simple answer and everybody into funk knows that's the case. Some might argue otherwise, but they're just trying to appear knowledgeable. They're the same bunch of people that appear on all kinds of Internet forums trying to tell what the people on the forum are most into is not the real deal ("it's not real pizza unless the mozzarella used on it is the same kind of mozzarella they used in Italy in the 19th century and unless the thickness of the crust is within specific limits" etc.). Seriously, those people can go fuck themselves. George Clinton would tell them to go fuck themselves. Prince's only competition in the 1980s came from the bands that preceded him and many of those bands started borrowing a lot from him when Prince perfected his sound, George Clinton & co. included.

Uncalled for.

Not really, we've had our own share of trolls with that type of bullshit arguments here throughout the years. These people can indeed go fuck themselves.

novabrkr said:

babynoz said:

Uncalled for.

Not really, we've had our own share of trolls with that type of bullshit arguments here throughout the years. These people can indeed go fuck themselves.

The mozarella debate reminds me of the FLAC/lossless moralists

novabrkr said:

babynoz said:

Uncalled for.

Not really, we've had our own share of trolls with that type of bullshit arguments here throughout the years. These people can indeed go fuck themselves.

Pardon me if I misunderstood but you did not say trolls...what you described are purists and like I said, every genre has them.

Opinions, opinions.

Yeah I agree, it's hard to compare because is not JUST a funk artist, he has a strong pop side that was ever more proeminent in his succesful years, and there's also a very strong emotional/romantic side to his music that may be hard to understand by cold-hearted funkateers. Most of the funkateers who dislike his work hardly know it at all. I am a huge fan of funk, I'm totally into P-Funk, Zapp, James (Rick and Brown ) and everyone else but honest, in the end, the deadliest, funkiest mothafuckin' grooves I ever heard were for a good 80% of them jams by . There's no contest, he would make anyone bite the dust. I had friends who were totally into funk and quite ignorant of 's works. I made them listen to the right jams, they were blown away and became instant fans! Try it with your friends, the really agressive, long jams, u'll see they'll bite.

-

Well Said!

Anyone still questioning Prince's funk ability need only listen to the first two Time albums, DMSR and Erotic City. After that, they should HUSH.

[Edited 10/27/14 17:26pm]

"Listen to George talk about the birth of P-Funk".....

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/george-clinton-memoir-p-funk/53c6eeb278c90ab37500002f

p funk rules when it comes to funk, pop and soul. end of thread.

Prince could've easily been a pure funkateer if he wanted to but, he's so much more than that..

[Edited 10/28/14 19:35pm]

a lot of Prince's best funk is unreleased or given to others in a crapper versions

Dance Electric

Chocolate

We Can Funk (original)

Wonderful Ass

G-Spot

Databank

Extralovable

etc

etc

UncleJam said:

Anyone still questioning Prince's funk ability need only listen to the first two Time albums, DMSR and Erotic City. After that, they should HUSH.

[Edited 10/27/14 17:26pm]

Not really knocking Prince but the examples you give feature Morris Day heavily and Erotic City which was an unreeased George Clinton groove that Prince just straight up helped himself to. Probably not the best examples of Prince being funky with completely original ideas of his own.

The world will never really know if Prince's funk was on that elite level, because the majority of his better funk music, is badly produced. Even back in the early 80's Prince's records sounded under-powered compared to Roger or Rick James or even Parliament. It's the one-man-band effect.

funksterr said:

Not really knocking Prince but the examples you give feature Morris Day heavily and Erotic City which was an unreeased George Clinton groove that Prince just straight up helped himself to. Probably not the best examples of Prince being funky with completely original ideas of his own.

1. The Time's sound is Prince's Funk no matter who is singing.

2. Erotic City is unreleased George Clinton? I know the legend is that Prince wrote it after seeing George in concert, but have never heard that is is based on any George Clinton groove. Explain this more.

I wish that Prince had placed "Hide The Bone" as the opening track on TGE....that's the type of hardcore,sweaty funk that I wanted him to do more of!

skywalker said:

funksterr said:

Not really knocking Prince but the examples you give feature Morris Day heavily and Erotic City which was an unreeased George Clinton groove that Prince just straight up helped himself to. Probably not the best examples of Prince being funky with completely original ideas of his own.

1. The Time's sound is Prince's Funk no matter who is singing.

2. Erotic City is unreleased George Clinton? I know the legend is that Prince wrote it after seeing George in concert, but have never heard that is is based on any George Clinton groove. Explain this more.

1. I wasn't referencing singing. Morris is playing drums on The Time albums and some of the 1999 album as well as some of the Purple Rain outtakes and a lot of other stuff. The rhythm of funk is essential. That's why Prince has always credited Morris Day in interviews as his favorite drummer and stuff like that.

2. Yep. Prince went to see George Clinton live then flipped one of the unreleased jams they were playing that night into Erotic City.