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PrintableNuPwrSoul said: It's like literature. If an author is well read, (s)he will reflect the literary influences that shaped his/her writing.
In fact, much of literature is actually a call and response with other pieces. One writer spurred on by another one, responding to it, signifying on it in some way. Music. American music. American popular music. Black music (which are all the same thing) is steeped in the tradition of signifying. What do you think the jazz idiom is doing? It takes a phrase, signifies on it (kinda like acknowledging, a nod) and then remakes it, flip reverse it whatever. Prince is no different than other artists in this regard. Of course you can hear influences in his music. He's in conversation with those pieces. If he wrote in a total vacuum he wouldn't be able to reach us because it would be too isolated from us, the musical language would be too foreign. So he speaks the language of the people, and will take phrase, twist, reverse it, flip it, bend it, pitch up, batter down, speed it up, slow it down, interpolate it, improvise it, harmonize it, solo it... whatever to give us something NEW. Writers use words that have been used before... they just combine them in different refreshing ways. Musicians are not different. This is all cool and doohickey and I agree with it--but it still does not mean that folks dont directly cop from one another on purpose. You caint tell me that Prince did not hear Bette Davis Eyes with the string synths and handclaps and didn't begin to write LRC ..or that Prince heard White Horse by Laid Back and went to write Erotic City..not unconscious influence but directly conscioulsy copping. "Climb in my fur." | |
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Gainsbourg - it isn't the same riff. The two original recordings of the songs are in the different keys - but if you transcribe them to the same key, the notes would not only be different musically, but they would also have different time values. The SOTT 'riff' is actually more varied than WLL. I can see/hear the similarity, coupled with the fact that they fall in the same (end) part of each bar. Then again, the WLL riff runs into the next bar whereas in SOTT each bass clef bar starts off with a rest.
___ It IS the same. Sometimes Prince even performs 'WLL' in concert and segues into 'SOTT'. He is more open to admitting his influences these days. ******************************************** | |
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As to Knee Deep and Jungle Love... lost me there, what sections do you think sound alike?
I do have one more to add though: the piano riff in Strange Relationship sounds a LOT like the riff from an old Zapp tune, I think it's Heartbreaker... | |
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Well, I think the Oberheim synth in 'Knee Deep' was a massive influence on Prince in general. Probably the biggest ingredient of the Minneapolis sound. It is there in 'Jungle Love' with a similar melody. ******************************************** | |
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They say the art of being original is to disguise your influences | |
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Don´t forget "Guess Who´s Knockin" on the Gold Nigga" album. The chorus is taken from a Paul McCartney-Song! See the man with the blue guitar, maybe one day he`ll be a star... | |
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Really?? Which one??
Someone on these boards said I was wrong in stating that TLC's 'Waterfalls' is similar to the Macca song of the same name. Would anyone like to comment? ******************************************** | |
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gainsbourg said: Really?? Which one???
It was the NPG song which is missing from the 2nd pressing of their album. I can't think what it's called now. It was "influenced" by "Let 'Em In" by Wings. | |
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"talent borrows...genius steals...maybe why prince never really meshed well with the idea of sampling...he could play the things he wanted to copy w/o a taped loop" (wasn't a quote along the lines of this in the news section a while back?) | |
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This thread sounds like it's really boring. | |
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Why is it boring??
I can't believe Prince would rip-off a Paul Mcartney song. I assume you mean melodically, 'cause there's not much going on lyrically ******************************************** | |
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rdhull said: NuPwrSoul said: It's like literature. If an author is well read, (s)he will reflect the literary influences that shaped his/her writing.
In fact, much of literature is actually a call and response with other pieces. One writer spurred on by another one, responding to it, signifying on it in some way. Music. American music. American popular music. Black music (which are all the same thing) is steeped in the tradition of signifying. What do you think the jazz idiom is doing? It takes a phrase, signifies on it (kinda like acknowledging, a nod) and then remakes it, flip reverse it whatever. Prince is no different than other artists in this regard. Of course you can hear influences in his music. He's in conversation with those pieces. If he wrote in a total vacuum he wouldn't be able to reach us because it would be too isolated from us, the musical language would be too foreign. So he speaks the language of the people, and will take phrase, twist, reverse it, flip it, bend it, pitch up, batter down, speed it up, slow it down, interpolate it, improvise it, harmonize it, solo it... whatever to give us something NEW. Writers use words that have been used before... they just combine them in different refreshing ways. Musicians are not different. This is all cool and doohickey and I agree with it--but it still does not mean that folks dont directly cop from one another on purpose. You caint tell me that Prince did not hear Bette Davis Eyes with the string synths and handclaps and didn't begin to write LRC ..or that Prince heard White Horse by Laid Back and went to write Erotic City..not unconscious influence but directly conscioulsy copping. Signifying is both unconscious and most of the time it *is* conscious. It's the impulse that's been in music from jazz all the way to hip hop. I never claimed it to be unconscious--though it's quite possible. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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gainsbourg said: Why is it boring??
I can't believe Prince would rip-off a Paul Mcartney song. I assume you mean melodically, 'cause there's not much going on lyrically Well - yeah, melodically and thematically. It was called "Guess Who's Knocking" and originally appeared on the Goldnigga album. In subsequent pressings, the song was removed because of its resemblance to "Let 'Em In" by Wings. | |
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I never heard Prince directly still but once." If I were Your Girlfriend " was a direct copy right infrigment on a Mtume tune. It was taken note for note with very little change. When me and one of my buddies first heard it we were like damn, bet Mtume is pissed.
Replying to the guy above: P.S. Also George Clinton and Parliament/Funkadelic had a history way before Bootsy and Maceo showed up.The Parliaments Doowop was in the 50's and early 60's they became Funkadelic in 67' influencing everyone from Motown, Norman Whitfield, Temptations etc. Even Norman and Tempts will tell you directly. They were the most imitated band in Detroit even before they blew up mugs were copying just like they did in the 70's and continue with samples today. Both Maceo, Fred, Bootsy , Catfish and Frankie had long left James when they hooked up with George. Adding the dynamics of the "ONE". At 40 I fill like a teacher at times, sorry...lol. | |
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