More than likely promotion was worked out prior. He got the Masters back. I'm sure this is exactly what he wanted. Not what WE wanted but hey...it's Prince.

donnyenglish said:

Does anyone else believe that Prince signed the deal strictly to get his master recordings back,and never had any intention of promoting the new albums,and cooperating with the Purple Rain remaster project? His attitude seems to be "I got what I wanted,now screw you guys!"

I hope this doesn't turn into an ugly legal fight,but you never know.

Seriously though - is owning your masters as important in 2014 as it was in 1994?

Owning the masters is not important:

P will not go back to his old stuff. (maybe sample once in a while but that is it)

P will not release remasters of old stuff. (not without edits etc)

P does not realize the money in these tapes nor can he fully exploit this value.

So P will just sit on the tapes.

I don't think its worth the money to press them nowadays.

[Edited 12/4/14 0:30am]

The only way Prince can avoid legal repercussions is by moving to the new calipate in the Middle East...

Pentacle said:

The only way Prince can avoid legal repercussions is by moving to the new calipate in the Middle East...

This is pointless.

The military industrial complex will be joined by the copyrightwhorescomplex and the result will be kinetic action in some form or another.

He already has them.

As usual with Prince, we have to take everything with a pinch of salt.

How do we know he has them back yet? The press release aluded to it, as part of the remasters. He also claimed to have them 2 years ago, and that was found out to be false.

And even if he does have them, the exclusive distribution deal with WB may well mean they can only be issued through them as part of the handover.

You can bet your bottom dollar WB are not going to simply hand them over on the hope that he promotes a new album. They are not stupid. The deal is likely to include one/some of the these points:

1. Masters released as as when remaster of each album is released.

2. WB retain purpetual distribution rights

3. Masters released upon sales target

4. Minimum contractual promotion

5. Masters actually transfer without arguement at the 35th anniversary of the recording.

The alternative is that WB saw little sales of his old material and felt it was financially beneficial to hand them over on the hope that Prince would promote his new material through their distribution deal.

There is a misconception that the distribution deal would involve promotion from the label. Under a common distribution deal, the artist is responsible for production and promotion costs. WB won't be out of pocket with AOA's failure. Prince will be.

So WB may have rolled the dice and found, as usual with Prince, they rolled off the table.

Se7en said:

I was under the impression that Prince has always had them in his physical possession, but was legally prohibited to do anything with them. Also, it's assumed that everything recorded during WB years - even unreleased material - was either owned by and/or legally tied up by WB.

If true at all, it likely only applies to unrleased material before Paisley Park was built. He certainly included unrleased WB era material in Crystal Ball.

SquirrelMeat said:

As usual with Prince, we have to take everything with a pinch of salt.

How do we know he has them back yet? The press release aluded to it, as part of the remasters. He also claimed to have them 2 years ago, and that was found out to be false.

And even if he does have them, the exclusive distribution deal with WB may well mean they can only be issued through them as part of the handover.

You can bet your bottom dollar WB are not going to simply hand them over on the hope that he promotes a new album. They are not stupid. The deal is likely to include one/some of the these points:

1. Masters released as as when remaster of each album is released.

2. WB retain purpetual distribution rights

3. Masters released upon sales target

4. Minimum contractual promotion

5. Masters actually transfer without arguement at the 35th anniversary of the recording.

The alternative is that WB saw little sales of his old material and felt it was financially beneficial to hand them over on the hope that Prince would promote his new material through their distribution deal.

There is a misconception that the distribution deal would involve promotion from the label. Under a common distribution deal, the artist is responsible for production and promotion costs. WB won't be out of pocket with AOA's failure. Prince will be.

So WB may have rolled the dice and found, as usual with Prince, they rolled off the table.

eh? I don't remember this being found out. Not saying it was true either btw

the fact that all of the WB albums are on youtube i would say he has them

udo said:

Owning the masters is not important:

P will not go back to his old stuff. (maybe sample once in a while but that is it)

P will not release remasters of old stuff. (not without edits etc)

P does not realize the money in these tapes nor can he fully exploit this value.

So P will just sit on the tapes.

It obviously is to Prince

SquirrelMeat said:

WB won't be out of pocket with AOA's failure. Prince will be.

I don't consider AOA a failure. Would you mind explaining why you do?

Militant said:

SquirrelMeat said:

WB won't be out of pocket with AOA's failure. Prince will be.

I don't consider AOA a failure. Would you mind explaining why you do?

I only mean in sales terms. I like the album. Considering the volume of distribution it got (WB did a good job from there end, making in available in so many major outlets worldwide), the sales numbers are very low for an album with such exposure.

It simply suffered from lack of artist promotion and/or no clear single/video/TV performances/tour.

I know general sales are down, but it was still spanked by the likes of U2, who are similar age and gave away 5 million copies in advance. Lenny K is an even better example, where, for the first time in his career, he's outselling Prince, despite moving to a tiny label.

jaawwnn said:

SquirrelMeat said:

As usual with Prince, we have to take everything with a pinch of salt.

How do we know he has them back yet? The press release aluded to it, as part of the remasters. He also claimed to have them 2 years ago, and that was found out to be false.

And even if he does have them, the exclusive distribution deal with WB may well mean they can only be issued through them as part of the handover.

You can bet your bottom dollar WB are not going to simply hand them over on the hope that he promotes a new album. They are not stupid. The deal is likely to include one/some of the these points:

1. Masters released as as when remaster of each album is released.

2. WB retain purpetual distribution rights

3. Masters released upon sales target

4. Minimum contractual promotion

5. Masters actually transfer without arguement at the 35th anniversary of the recording.

The alternative is that WB saw little sales of his old material and felt it was financially beneficial to hand them over on the hope that Prince would promote his new material through their distribution deal.

There is a misconception that the distribution deal would involve promotion from the label. Under a common distribution deal, the artist is responsible for production and promotion costs. WB won't be out of pocket with AOA's failure. Prince will be.

So WB may have rolled the dice and found, as usual with Prince, they rolled off the table.

eh? I don't remember this being found out. Not saying it was true either btw

Well, lets put it this way, if he already had them 2 years ago, why were him and WB annoucing that a deal starting April 2014 would see Prince gaining his masters?

Pentacle said:

You could speculate about whether Prince owns his masters or not, or you could check who owns the copyright to the sound recordings on iTunes as was done in this previous thread:

http://prince.org/msg/7/411807

alandail said:

Se7en said:

I was under the impression that Prince has always had them in his physical possession, but was legally prohibited to do anything with them. Also, it's assumed that everything recorded during WB years - even unreleased material - was either owned by and/or legally tied up by WB.

If true at all, it likely only applies to unrleased material before Paisley Park was built. He certainly included unrleased WB era material in Crystal Ball.

.

He did a lot of such things in the late 1990s/early 2000s -- and then he stopped. He was clearly provoking WBR at that time and it is clear that at one point WBR decided to sic their lawyers on him. Hence the changes in NPGMC for year two.

BartVanHemelen said:

alandail said:

If true at all, it likely only applies to unrleased material before Paisley Park was built. He certainly included unrleased WB era material in Crystal Ball.

.

He did a lot of such things in the late 1990s/early 2000s -- and then he stopped. He was clearly provoking WBR at that time and it is clear that at one point WBR decided to sic their lawyers on him. Hence the changes in NPGMC for year two.

No wonder he's mad at them.

Prince is too crazy to control his masters. He's just going to end up doing something stupid with them. Already he is likely holding Purple Rain hostage. Forget about getting the other albums remastered with outtakes.

paulludvig said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did a lot of such things in the late 1990s/early 2000s -- and then he stopped. He was clearly provoking WBR at that time and it is clear that at one point WBR decided to sic their lawyers on him. Hence the changes in NPGMC for year two.

No wonder he's mad at them.

Yessss, and he's going to be even madder when WB's lawyers walk out of Paisley Park with all the masters and outtakes, and start releasing them.

Prince thumps his bible, the judge thumps the lawbooks, and laughs his skinny ass out of court.

funksterr said:

SquirrelMeat said:

jaawwnn said:

eh? I don't remember this being found out. Not saying it was true either btw

Well, lets put it this way, if he already had them 2 years ago, why were him and WB annoucing that a deal starting April 2014 would see Prince gaining his masters?

yeah I dunno, that announcement also claimed there would be re-masters. Fact is, i've never actually seen a copy of this press release.

.

As the billboard article says "Financial terms and length of the licensing deal were not disclosed; nor does the announcement make clear on whether the artist is gaining ownership of his catalog all at once; or more likely as each album becomes eligible for copyright termination." From my point of view things are as clear now as they were 3 years ago.

BartVanHemelen said:

alandail said:

If true at all, it likely only applies to unrleased material before Paisley Park was built. He certainly included unrleased WB era material in Crystal Ball.

.

He did a lot of such things in the late 1990s/early 2000s -- and then he stopped. He was clearly provoking WBR at that time and it is clear that at one point WBR decided to sic their lawyers on him. Hence the changes in NPGMC for year two.

Before or after PP was built wouldn't make a difference. Prince even included previously WB released material in CB and NPGMC so I agree with Bart, he was provoking them, they let it go at first and finally let him know that enough was enough. Of course we don't know this for a fact but we do know that WB owned the vault stuff as well (according to Alan Leeds) and that P rereleased some WB tracks on NPG Records without permission, so it'd make sense.

databank said:

Prince even included previously WB released material in CB and NPGMC so I agree with Bart, he was provoking them, they let it go at first and finally let him know that enough was enough. Of course we don't know this for a fact but we do know that WB owned the vault stuff as well (according to Alan Leeds) and that P rereleased some WB tracks on NPG Records without permission, so it'd make sense.

Hmmm..

This makes the intrugue a bit tastier...

I long for a Per Nislen-like in-depth story about these happenings which are in current news again due to the contarct vaguenesses.

Udo

jaawwnn said:

yeah I dunno, that announcement also claimed there would be re-masters. Fact is, i've never actually seen a copy of this press release.

.

As the billboard article says "Financial terms and length of the licensing deal were not disclosed; nor does the announcement make clear on whether the artist is gaining ownership of his catalog all at once; or more likely as each album becomes eligible for copyright termination." From my point of view things are as clear now as they were 3 years ago.

as per my earlier post why are we still speculating over whether or not Prince owns his masters when the recording copyrights on digital retailers like iTunes and Amazon clearly show the rights to the WB albums now belong to "NPG Records" even "Batman" which I didn't expect.

http://www.amazon.com/Bat...=&qid=

[Edited 12/5/14 9:27am]