his comments about how "they should pay ME to listen to phil collins, def leppard, and miley cyrus, hur hur hurr" sound like he's just pandering to his fans.

Who the hell is Steve Albini and why should I care about his opinion?

1725topp said:

So, let me get this right; Prince or anybody else who creates something doesn't have the right to control how it's used or sold? Man, please. The only person complaining about how Prince or anybody else controls what they created is somebody without the talent to create anything. A person who creates something is not under any obligation to share their work with the world. Now, of course, I may think that Prince may be missing some opportunities, but if Prince doesn't want those opportunities or if he only wants those opportunities under his own terms, then what exactly is Prince missing? And clearly, Prince ain't trying to be no broke ass famous person. So, this whole "Prince is missing out on gaining new fans" logic is bs. Given the fact that the internet has killed record sales, what has Prince to gain by allowing his work to be stolen on the internet without some about of resistance from him. Mr. Steve who-ever-the-hell-he-is should be solely concerned with what he can do with his creations and stop worrying about what other people do with their creations. And for those people who think that the internet needs more art to be stolen, y'all are free to create more.

But is it art? Normally an artist creates something and hopes that other get what they are doing or buy their wares. Bacon and Picasso didn't seem to be bothered about pay per view or what slice a gallery takes.

If P (and others) want to restrict the availablility of there 'art' to ensure they get the dues, then they are simply abusing the term 'art' and simply hiding behind it. Its product.

Any product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 20 years ago, it was controlled by corporate entitities, restricting supply to drive up attention and sales.

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

Its not about stealing it, its about it finding its true market value and being relevant to the consumer, to buy or observe.

If Prince wants to keep his 'art' fine. His call. But he is wasting his time if he keeps bitiching about methods of exposure, simply because he wants millions rather than thousands for his wares. And when he gets sales numbers like AOA and Plec, more and more of the industry will ignore what he is saying.

I think this guy is spot on about the music industry.

Obviously free downloads or cheap downloads don't pay the artist much, if at all.

But the ability for artists to sell cd's/DL's/dvd's, merchandising, etc directly to the fans without a middle man has never been easier.

That said, he obviously has an axe to grind with Prince. Calling him a "dwarf" and that he "hits women" is infantile (proof or no proof, he obviously hates Prince) . I don't like the idea of anyone taking down random videos of someone's kid dancing to one of his songs ...but it's Prince's music, not mine(and...duh... you can send your grandma a video without uploading it on youtube). Prince has every right to take down videos or songs that he's created.

Continuing my first thought -- Prince could create his own EXPANDED website with videos, songs, clips, dvd's, cd's - charge $10 to join, sell media inexpensively --for example, $1 downloads, $2 videos, $5 cd's, $7 dvds, and discounted concert tix-- and make a killing off his unreleased songs and especially pro-shot concert footage.

SquirrelMeat said:

1725topp said:

So, let me get this right; Prince or anybody else who creates something doesn't have the right to control how it's used or sold? Man, please. The only person complaining about how Prince or anybody else controls what they created is somebody without the talent to create anything. A person who creates something is not under any obligation to share their work with the world. Now, of course, I may think that Prince may be missing some opportunities, but if Prince doesn't want those opportunities or if he only wants those opportunities under his own terms, then what exactly is Prince missing? And clearly, Prince ain't trying to be no broke ass famous person. So, this whole "Prince is missing out on gaining new fans" logic is bs. Given the fact that the internet has killed record sales, what has Prince to gain by allowing his work to be stolen on the internet without some about of resistance from him. Mr. Steve who-ever-the-hell-he-is should be solely concerned with what he can do with his creations and stop worrying about what other people do with their creations. And for those people who think that the internet needs more art to be stolen, y'all are free to create more.

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

This comment is laughable. He is a hypocrite because he couldn't see the digital theft coming?

For saying that about Prince I want to punch the guys face until it is unrecognizable and make him a eunuch

(kinda in a bad mood today...)

[Edited 11/20/14 9:42am]

Graycap23 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

This comment is laughable. He is a hypocrite because he couldn't see the digital theft coming?

Illegal downloading is a different topic. The guys speech wasn't even near suggesting that was ok.

Prince is a hypocrite because he said he wanted to 'Free the Music' (not in monetary terms) and is now one of the most closed off artists, simply because he wants to make $10m a year with new material, rather than $1m. His head is ironically in the Clouds.

Youtube, spotify etc. They all allow the artist to get direct to the consumer, but Prince expects unrealistic payment. His head is still in 80's in regards to earnings. The result of his stubborness is he'll probably make $500k.

He'll become even more reliant on tours, and more reliant on the old hits.

Im sure that if he was captured off camera, he'd give it up for Prince's talent..

Im sure he'd also think his records suck! which is pretty standard thinking around here..

Steve reminds me of an music geek/artist who is just bitter that everyone else made it big and he didn't.

SquirrelMeat said:

1725topp said:

So, let me get this right; Prince or anybody else who creates something doesn't have the right to control how it's used or sold? Man, please. The only person complaining about how Prince or anybody else controls what they created is somebody without the talent to create anything. A person who creates something is not under any obligation to share their work with the world. Now, of course, I may think that Prince may be missing some opportunities, but if Prince doesn't want those opportunities or if he only wants those opportunities under his own terms, then what exactly is Prince missing? And clearly, Prince ain't trying to be no broke ass famous person. So, this whole "Prince is missing out on gaining new fans" logic is bs. Given the fact that the internet has killed record sales, what has Prince to gain by allowing his work to be stolen on the internet without some about of resistance from him. Mr. Steve who-ever-the-hell-he-is should be solely concerned with what he can do with his creations and stop worrying about what other people do with their creations. And for those people who think that the internet needs more art to be stolen, y'all are free to create more.

But is it art? Normally an artist creates something and hopes that other get what they are doing or buy their wares. Bacon and Picasso didn't seem to be bothered about pay per view or what slice a gallery takes.

If P (and others) want to restrict the availablility of there 'art' to ensure they get the dues, then they are simply abusing the term 'art' and simply hiding behind it. Its product.

Any product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 20 years ago, it was controlled by corporate entitities, restricting supply to drive up attention and sales.

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

Its not about stealing it, its about it finding its true market value and being relevant to the consumer, to buy or observe.

If Prince wants to keep his 'art' fine. His call. But he is wasting his time if he keeps bitiching about methods of exposure, simply because he wants millions rather than thousands for his wares. And when he gets sales numbers like AOA and Plec, more and more of the industry will ignore what he is saying.

*

Art, by definition, is the use of skill to create something in a stylistic manner that adds order, beauty, and/or meaning to someone's life. So, just because an artist wants to be compensated a certain amount for that skillful creation does not keep the creation from being art. Yes, Prince wanted to take his art directly to the consumer, but he never said, "I don't want to be paid for it." Maybe I had the wrong idea, but I always thought that "freeing the music" simply meant that Prince wanted to have the ability to control when and how his art became available to the public. I never thought it meant anything having to do with him getting paid less. So, in that regard, Prince is not a hypocrite. I thought it was pretty clear that Prince wanted the "lion's share" of the profits, his words not mine. So, again, Prince wanting top dollar for his art does not make him hypocritical since that was always one of several issues he was raising. It's just that, like with Prince's art, some fans chose only to focus on the things they want to hear and see, and then are upset when something like The Rainbow Children forces them to acknowledge other aspects that were always there.

*

Also, the only people who seem to have a problem regarding the concept of "fair market value" are those who keep bitching about Prince not allowing YouTube and other outlets to display his art. I have not heard Prince bitching about his sales of AOA and PlecElec. And, to be honest, I am cool with the numbers. Say what you will, he had two number one albums thirty-six years after his career began and thirty years after his biggest seller. That's a feat that no one can deny. One can dislike AOA and PlecElec, but, as it relates to fair market value, they were number one albums. So, others may be upset about the sales of AOA and PlecElec, but Prince seems as content with the sales as the guy who is auctioning his classic car. He has a set price that he will accept for the car, and, if no one bids that price, then he's taking his car home. I, for one, don't see what's so difficult to understand about that concept and what's so difficult to understand that Prince seems to be happy with that concept. Thus, I don't think Prince is bitching at all but rather saying, "You can have my art for this much, but, if you're not willing to pay that much for it, I'll take it to the crib." If he's cool with that, why can't others be cool with that?

*

So, my point is that oh boy Steve should spend his time worrying about his own art rather than worrying about what Prince wants to do with his art. The bottom line is that whatever Prince does or does not do online does not impact what others can or cannot do so why does oh boy Steve give a crap about what Prince is doing with Prince's art? As an artist, myself, I don't care what others desire to do with their art. I only care about what I want to do with my art. As such, what is really a waste of time is oh boy Steve and others bitching about what Prince does with his art. Just because Prince or anyone else has something I want does not mean I have a right to it...unless I believe in Manifest Destiny...

He's saying that something saved music? That's great news!

SquirrelMeat said:

Hasn't someone on this board suggested several times that Prince should work with Albini?

He's a respected producer in his own genres, but he does have an off-putting quality to his personality. Whenver I've read interviews by him I just always get the feeling that having a conversation with the guy would be pretty damn unpleasant. An intelligent guy, sure, but not necessarily as intelligent as he seems to think he is.

I just got to the point on the video where he got to the Prince comment. It was embarrassing to watch. He tried to sound like a tough guy, but when he read that from the laptop he sounded really nervous. Just like the average Internet nerd that writes provocative stuff online, but really has no guts to say such things to other people in real life. Him commenting so negatively on Prince was obviously meant as some sort of a "climax" of his speech - maybe he knew he would get some publicity that way too - but he really didn't pull off that part too well.

novabrkr said:

I just got to the point on the video where he got to the Prince comment. It was embarrassing to watch. He tried to sound like a tough guy, but when he read that from the laptop he sounded really nervous. Just like the average Internet nerd that writes provocative stuff online, but really has no guts to say such things to other people in real life. Him commenting so negatively on Prince was obviously meant as some sort of a "climax" of his speech - maybe he knew he would get some publicity that way too - but he really didn't pull off that part too well.

He's been saying provocative things in public and in song for 30 years, he's not your average internet nerd. Do not mistake his bitchiness for a want for cheap 'publicity'.

jaawwnn said:

novabrkr said:

I just got to the point on the video where he got to the Prince comment. It was embarrassing to watch. He tried to sound like a tough guy, but when he read that from the laptop he sounded really nervous. Just like the average Internet nerd that writes provocative stuff online, but really has no guts to say such things to other people in real life. Him commenting so negatively on Prince was obviously meant as some sort of a "climax" of his speech - maybe he knew he would get some publicity that way too - but he really didn't pull off that part too well.

He's been saying provocative things in public and in song for 30 years, he's not your average internet nerd. Do not mistake his bitchiness for a want for cheap 'publicity'.

I already commented on my views on his personality on the post I made above the one you quoted. I have at least some idea who he is and what he's like as a personality. I've also read many of the things he's posted on the Internet and I wouldn't say the way he conducts himself on the Internet differs that much from those that post "trollbait" type of comments on alternative music forums. If you've ever spent time on those you should be familiar with the way things on them often are.

Provocation has always been a key element of that end of alternative music that Steve Albini has been involved in (ever listened to, say, Whitehouse?). Sometimes it's done for art, sometimes it's done for entertainment value, sometimes it's done for psychological reasons that I don't necessarily want to try to discuss here, but most of all, it's done for ensuring a sufficient amount of attention to your projects. It's not the "cheap publicity" that tabloid media can offer the mainstream music and film celebrities, but on the practical level, it functions in a similar way.

[Edited 11/21/14 2:57am]

SquirrelMeat said:

1725topp said:

So, let me get this right; Prince or anybody else who creates something doesn't have the right to control how it's used or sold? Man, please. The only person complaining about how Prince or anybody else controls what they created is somebody without the talent to create anything. A person who creates something is not under any obligation to share their work with the world. Now, of course, I may think that Prince may be missing some opportunities, but if Prince doesn't want those opportunities or if he only wants those opportunities under his own terms, then what exactly is Prince missing? And clearly, Prince ain't trying to be no broke ass famous person. So, this whole "Prince is missing out on gaining new fans" logic is bs. Given the fact that the internet has killed record sales, what has Prince to gain by allowing his work to be stolen on the internet without some about of resistance from him. Mr. Steve who-ever-the-hell-he-is should be solely concerned with what he can do with his creations and stop worrying about what other people do with their creations. And for those people who think that the internet needs more art to be stolen, y'all are free to create more.

But is it art? Normally an artist creates something and hopes that other get what they are doing or buy their wares. Bacon and Picasso didn't seem to be bothered about pay per view or what slice a gallery takes.

If P (and others) want to restrict the availablility of there 'art' to ensure they get the dues, then they are simply abusing the term 'art' and simply hiding behind it. Its product.

Any product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 20 years ago, it was controlled by corporate entitities, restricting supply to drive up attention and sales.

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

Its not about stealing it, its about it finding its true market value and being relevant to the consumer, to buy or observe.

If Prince wants to keep his 'art' fine. His call. But he is wasting his time if he keeps bitiching about methods of exposure, simply because he wants millions rather than thousands for his wares. And when he gets sales numbers like AOA and Plec, more and more of the industry will ignore what he is saying.

Brilliantly put, SquirrelMeat.

Plus he's been shooting himself in the foot for years now, and he keeps whining about it.

Now that he's unlikeable to many, that kind of behaviour keeps him missing great opportunities in the modern web.

Mashups, memes (intelligent ones, not the rare few that flatters him in the worst way), sketches, trivias...

The only time that he trusted an external crew with his products, that gave "Happy Feet", and that still is one heck of a movie.

And instead of encouraging that, he childishly plays the primadonna.

bonatoc said:

SquirrelMeat said:

But is it art? Normally an artist creates something and hopes that other get what they are doing or buy their wares. Bacon and Picasso didn't seem to be bothered about pay per view or what slice a gallery takes.

If P (and others) want to restrict the availablility of there 'art' to ensure they get the dues, then they are simply abusing the term 'art' and simply hiding behind it. Its product.

Any product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 20 years ago, it was controlled by corporate entitities, restricting supply to drive up attention and sales.

Prince was at the forefront of the drive to do away with the greedy middleman and 'Free the music'. He wanted to take it direct to the consumer.Now that that genie is out of the bottle, he doesn't like it, because the artists don't make as much money as they used to. He is a hypocrite.

Its not about stealing it, its about it finding its true market value and being relevant to the consumer, to buy or observe.

If Prince wants to keep his 'art' fine. His call. But he is wasting his time if he keeps bitiching about methods of exposure, simply because he wants millions rather than thousands for his wares. And when he gets sales numbers like AOA and Plec, more and more of the industry will ignore what he is saying.

Brilliantly put, SquirrelMeat.

Plus he's been shooting himself in the foot for years now, and he keeps whining about it.

Now that he's unlikeable to many, that kind of behaviour keeps him missing great opportunities in the modern web.

Mashups, memes (intelligent ones, not the rare few that flatters him in the worst way), sketches, trivias...

The only time that he trusted an external crew with his products, that gave "Happy Feet", and that still is one heck of a movie.

And instead of encouraging that, he childishly plays the primadonna.

*

To suggest that Prince is "shooting himself in the foot" is to assert that he's keeping himself from obtaining something that he wants, and there is just no evidence of that. Y'all say he keeps whining about something, but what? All I've ever heard Prince say is that he wants to be paid a certain amount for his art so could y'all explain exactly what Prince desires to have that he is unable to obtain based on his own words? Prince, seemingly, isn't interested in being a famous but broke person. Having people "like" his YouTube vids doesn't seem to mean anything to him, and there is no evidence that supports that having his work on YoutTube will increase his "sales." Like he once said at a ceremony celebrating the platinum status of his album; "I see some discs, but do y'all have some money? Can we get some checks in replace of thes discs?" It simply seems that Prince wants to be paid a certain amount for his art, and he's not willing to lower that price regardless of the consequences so, again, how is he "shooting himself in the foot" when he is not losing something that he doesn't want?

1725topp said:

bonatoc said:

Brilliantly put, SquirrelMeat.

Plus he's been shooting himself in the foot for years now, and he keeps whining about it.

Now that he's unlikeable to many, that kind of behaviour keeps him missing great opportunities in the modern web.

Mashups, memes (intelligent ones, not the rare few that flatters him in the worst way), sketches, trivias...

The only time that he trusted an external crew with his products, that gave "Happy Feet", and that still is one heck of a movie.

And instead of encouraging that, he childishly plays the primadonna.

*

To suggest that Prince is "shooting himself in the foot" is to assert that he's keeping himself from obtaining something that he wants, and there is just no evidence of that. Y'all say he keeps whining about something, but what? All I've ever heard Prince say is that he wants to be paid a certain amount for his art so could y'all explain exactly what Prince desires to have that he is unable to obtain based on his own words? Prince, seemingly, isn't interested in being a famous but broke person. Having people "like" his YouTube vids doesn't seem to mean anything to him, and there is no evidence that supports that having his work on YoutTube will increase his "sales." Like he once said at a ceremony celebrating the platinum status of his album; "I see some discs, but do y'all have some money? Can we get some checks in replace of thes discs?" It simply seems that Prince wants to be paid a certain amount for his art, and he's not willing to lower that price regardless of the consequences so, again, how is he "shooting himself in the foot" when he is not losing something that he doesn't want?

Finally.....someone who gets it.

laurarichardson said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Illegal downloading is a different topic. The guys speech wasn't even near suggesting that was ok.

Prince is a hypocrite because he said he wanted to 'Free the Music' (not in monetary terms) and is now one of the most closed off artists, simply because he wants to make $10m a year with new material, rather than $1m. His head is ironically in the Clouds.

Youtube, spotify etc. They all allow the artist to get direct to the consumer, but Prince expects unrealistic payment. His head is still in 80's in regards to earnings. The result of his stubborness is he'll probably make $500k.

He'll become even more reliant on tours, and more reliant on the old hits.

How do you what he expects for payment? You have no idea and let's live in the land of reality artist should make every effort to get as much money as possible since you have no idea how long your shelf life will be and artist were not getting much under traditional deals.

If you are an artist, its not about shelf life, its about people getting your vision.

If you are a business man (or woman), then fair enough you want revenue.

Either way, there is nothing to dictate that a pop artist should be a millionaire rather an average earner. What is so wrong with all pop stars earning the average salary? Van Gogh died broke, but lived for his art.

If P wants to hold out for top dollar, fine, thats his choice, but the commercialism is taking over his desire for people to hear his art.

The irony is, the likes of Spotify and You Tube offer Prince a revenue stream in the millions, but he holds out, expecting some channel to offer him tens of millions He's living in the past.

Never trust a big butt and a smile. That girl is poisooooooooon. *I starts to dance like a idiot*

SquirrelMeat said:

laurarichardson said:

SquirrelMeat said: How do you what he expects for payment? You have no idea and let's live in the land of reality artist should make every effort to get as much money as possible since you have no idea how long your shelf life will be and artist were not getting much under traditional deals.

If you are an artist, its not about shelf life, its about people getting your vision.

If you are a business man (or woman), then fair enough you want revenue.

Either way, there is nothing to dictate that a pop artist should be a millionaire rather an average earner. What is so wrong with all pop stars earning the average salary? Van Gogh died broke, but lived for his art.

If P wants to hold out for top dollar, fine, thats his choice, but the commercialism is taking over his desire for people to hear his art.

The irony is, the likes of Spotify and You Tube offer Prince a revenue stream in the millions, but he holds out, expecting some channel to offer him tens of millions He's living in the past.

You bring up some good points.