From the Book The Vault


1988-1989

The 6:47 minute Instrumental is a jazz-tinged piece, is often called "24" and attributed to Madhouse.
More thank likley, the piece has nothing to do with Madhouse, however, probably being a solo piece from Prince

The alternate title for "24" was "Kenya" which was on "Times Squared". It first appeared on the Fantasia boot in 1997 as "24" at the end of the Madhouse 24 (1994) version but stated in the booklet the track was from 89. Now thinking about it, It might be alternate version of "Kenya" because it does have a jungle sound to it and kinda Elephant type noises. If I was a betting man I would say that track is an alternate version of "Kenya" since it was rerecorded for "Time Squared" with just percussion, a horn section and just Eric. Funny he mentioned that track in his EPK video for the album.

Big Chick

"Securtiy Ensuring Thee"

^^Thanks^^

I definitely recognize elements from another song i just can't place it
I will compare them later

No, problem. Just call me Proffesor Pickles. If I get a chance, I'll talk to Larry Fratangelo who played percussion on alot of the "Times Squared" material and find out. I know him.

FragileUndertow said:

^^Thanks^^

I definitely recognize elements from another song i just can't place it
I will compare them later

FragileUndertow said:

EddieC said:

Oh, crap--so I've got to find that thing again?

Did you delete your copy back then? I kept it just in case

I don't think I still have it--I recently trashed a bunch of old archive discs that included duplicate copies or lower quality files or just stuff I'd decided I didn't need--and I think the "Pickle" I had was on one of them.

So. I'm pretty sure my copy is gone.

Sooooo, what boot was Pickle sourced from, now?

databank said:

That it is, I've just been informed that it's supposed to be a track called 24 but then IDK what it is because it's not on Princevault (at least not as 24)

http://princevault.com/index.php/Kenya

Oh, this shit is so fake . Tickle my pickle

I call this track a semi-instrumental....Background voices from Prince & lead sometimes vocal by Boy George Prince Voice....this is 100% unreleased Prince track ...This is called TICKLE MY PICKLE.....this track has inspired lot or less ARE U MY BABY (Wendy & Lisa)!

databank said:

So today we learn that Are You My Baby? is based on a Prince instrumental! Quite a revelation!!!

Yes it is. Very interesting. I bet there are more examples of this that we just haven't heard about yet.

So I've listened to both Kenya and Pickle/24 and I see no blatant similarity between both tracks. The melody is different.

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Also Princevault says Kenya is from July 31 1987 while The Vault says Pickle/24 is from 1988 or 1989 (unfortunately I can't find it on Pvault, the untitled instrumentals are extremely poorly referenced on the website ).

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This doesn't change anything to the fact that Pickle/24 is referenced as being from 88 or 89 and therefore can't be the Pickle from '87?

.

I totally deny the notion that any is a fake.

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So it seems BigChick (who usually know his stuff anyway) is right about Pickle being offered to W&L who developped it into a full song. What I find surprising, given that the song has been in the hands of some collectors for many years, is the fact that this link between both tracks have totally escaped Per Nilsen and the Uptown team, but it's possible that they don't have access to uncirculating outtakes and that they'd never heard the track before.

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Also, does anyone know exactly when Fruit At The Bottom was released in 1989, as well as the Are You My Baby? single? I can't find any detailed release date online

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I've just sent an email to W&L's website to enquire about this. We shall see if they reply

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"Dear Wendy & Lisa,

A long-time fan of your work, I would be extremely grateful, on behalf of the whole Prince/W&L fans community, if you would be kind enough to solve a great mystery we have been facing lately!

A few days ago, a new uncirculating outtake by Prince has leaked online, which bears undeniable similarities to your song "Are You My Baby?". The outtake has been identified as being a 1988 outtake titles "Pickle" (http://www.princevault.com/index.php/Pickle), is mostly an instrumental with some distorded spoken word by Prince (à la "Bob George"), and is 3:34 long.

The consensus in the community now is that most likely, Prince has offered you the track in 1989 (after Eric Leeds declined to use it on his soon-to-be first solo album) and that you developped it into a full song by adding lyrics and a lead melody to it. There is, however, a reasonable doubt about the fact that you may have sent Prince the basic tracks of "Are You My Baby?" for remixing purpose, at the same time you sent him "Lolly Lolly", and that he may have recorded that version for fun.

So basically, the mystery we are now facing is whether "Are You My Baby?" was based on "Pickle" or the new leak is a track based on "Are You My Baby?".

It would be wonderful if you were kind enough to reveal the full story behind this

Many many thanks in advance for your help in those matters,

Kindest regards!"

[Edited 11/18/14 6:21am]

paulludvig said:

databank said:

So today we learn that Are You My Baby? is based on a Prince instrumental! Quite a revelation!!!

Yes it is. Very interesting. I bet there are more examples of this that we just haven't heard about yet.

Certainly yes! Probably not TONS of tracks but there are possibly a dozen or so additional contributions we're not yet aware of. All I've always said is that without any factual information it is pointless to say "A Magical Place" sounds like Prince so it must be Prince, because there are hundreds of songs that sound like Prince and we need facts before we decide anything

Also didn't Jesse play on Are You My Baby? He's been quite willing to share those kind of credits infos before and he certainly knows about this. I might send him an email too if W&L won't respond

databank said:

Also didn't Jesse play on Are You My Baby? He's been quite willing to share those kind of credits infos before and he certainly knows about this. I might send him an email too if W&L won't respond

Good idea! W&L like to talk about THEIR contribution to Prince's albums. I'm not convinced they will be as forthcoming when it's the other way around.

Hope they respond!

The backing may be from a real (if rubbish) Prince-related track, but there is absolutely no way in Hades that the ridiculous voice chanting 'Tickle... tickle My Pickle' ad infinitum is Prince. Nothing about it sounds like Prince. The cadence, the voice itself, the dull-as-dishwater delivery.

No way.

No.

Way.

Additionally, it doesn't really matter if it is Prince to me, as even if it is it's terrible and not really worth a second listen. I've deleted it already. Too much good stuff to listen to!

databank said:

I've just sent an email to W&L's website to enquire about this. We shall see if they reply

Cool, Do they commonly answer questions like this?

Most probably, W&L won't even know what the hell you are talking about !

[Edited 11/19/14 2:52am]

fredmagnus said:

Most probably, W&L won't even know what the hell you are talking about !

THIS!

Rimshottbob said:

The backing may be from a real (if rubbish) Prince-related track, but there is absolutely no way in Hades that the ridiculous voice chanting 'Tickle... tickle My Pickle' ad infinitum is Prince. Nothing about it sounds like Prince. The cadence, the voice itself, the dull-as-dishwater delivery.

No way.

No.

Way.

Additionally, it doesn't really matter if it is Prince to me, as even if it is it's terrible and not really worth a second listen. I've deleted it already. Too much good stuff to listen to!

I've had doubts as well but for one thing the track comes from some people who know where they got there stuff from, it's not like it appeared on a Eye Records boot. + I tend to trust my ears and after many listens it is my opinion that both the "tu-tu-tuuuu" high voice and the Bog george kinda voice are genuine Prince vocals. It's hard to say really, it's not as obvious as on some track and it could be an impersonation but I don't think it is one, at all.

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When u go past the demo-like rough aspect on the track and pay attention u get to hear many interesting little things on the track. I feel sorry to read how often people listen to a track once and decide it's not worth their attention ever again. If I'd had this approach I'd have totally missed some of my favorite records ever, that left me totally cold on a first listen then grew up on me. It shows, IMHO, the gap between the people here who really are passionate about music and those for whom it's just a minor hobby.

fredmagnus said:

Most probably, W&L won't even know what the hell you are talking about !

[Edited 11/19/14 2:52am]

If AYMB is really based on pickle there's no way they could have forgotten it. If not then yeah they may be puzzled lol. Anyway I doubt THEY will read my email first, they must have an assistant to sort out fanmail and it's not necessarly likely this email will find its way to them, nor that they'll reply if it does, but it was worth givin' it a shot