I heard someone sum up Prince during those decades and it struck me how simple and spot-on it was. With the Minneapolis Sound in the 80s, it can be said that he actually did revolutionize popular music through the 80s. We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion. Some of this is as ingenious and challenging as his music to those of us who are educated in business. In many ways, is contribtions in te 90s are as valuable in the iindustry and, in turn, popular culture as the body of purple work that defined the 80s an provided the launch platform for so much of what has some redeeming value and substance in music today.

BWAHA! "New DIstribution Channels". Baloney. You can still buy new copies of Emancipation for $2 at most outlet malls. Yes, 18 years later, they are still emptying warehouses of that shit.

JoshuaWho said:

I heard someone sum up Prince during those decades and it struck me how simple and spot-on it was. With the Minneapolis Sound in the 80s, it can be said that he actually did revolutionize popular music through the 80s. We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion. Some of this is as ingenious and challenging as his music to those of us who are educated in business. In many ways, is contribtions in te 90s are as valuable in the iindustry and, in turn, popular culture as the body of purple work that defined the 80s an provided the launch platform for so much of what has some redeeming value and substance in music today.

All by his lonesome self?

funksterr said:

BWAHA! "New DIstribution Channels". Baloney. You can still buy new copies of Emancipation for $2 at most outlet malls. Yes, 18 years later, they are still emptying warehouses of that shit.

Sure - but doesn't that show your limited view and/or knowledge of the entirety of what Prince accomplished by concentrating on one release - which actually has nothing to do with the distribution channel strategies?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

JoshuaWho said:

I heard someone sum up Prince during those decades and it struck me how simple and spot-on it was. With the Minneapolis Sound in the 80s, it can be said that he actually did revolutionize popular music through the 80s. We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion. Some of this is as ingenious and challenging as his music to those of us who are educated in business. In many ways, is contribtions in te 90s are as valuable in the iindustry and, in turn, popular culture as the body of purple work that defined the 80s an provided the launch platform for so much of what has some redeeming value and substance in music today.

All by his lonesome self?

No. Since I am smart enough to know the universe extends far beyond those who comment on a fan site on the internet, I avoid making such a shortsighted and unsubstantiated conclusion.

JoshuaWho said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

All by his lonesome self?

No. Since I am smart enough to know the universe extends far beyond those who comment on a fan site on the internet, I avoid making such a shortsighted and unsubstantiated conclusion.

He was part of something, I mean the Minneapolis Sound was part of something: it was the Afro-American extension of the post-punk/new wave/synthpop movement, basically what Prince did that was revolutionary was to pick things from post punk/new wave/synthpop (which itself was revolutionary at the time) and apply them to funk and R&B. Other black artists incorporated electronic elements quite early but were more influenced by New York's hip-hop/electrohop explosion, which was something else entirely. Prince nonetheless had a massive impact of dance music and the way it sounded that can still be felt today, I'd say an impact as big as James Brown's and in fact the logical evolution of many things Brown had created. Soon after came new jack swing by Jam & Lewis but in many aspect it was itself a merging of the Mpls sound and NY's hip-hop. So as with every other influential artist it's debatable how much of it is the artists' merit and how much is a product of the times and what was happening all around at any given moment, but I think Prince can certainly be considered one of the most impactful music artist of the era.

JoshuaWho said:

We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion.

.

What did Prince do in the 1990s (NOT THE 2000s) that was different from what plenty of independent artists had bene doing for years? Since when is going to Clive Davis and promising to cooperate so he could provide Prince with a Santana-like comeback "on the cutting edge"? Since when is operating a "service" for which the word "half-assed" is too good a description revolutionary?

.

Sure, NPGMC was a brave step, but that wasn't in the 1990s. And it was in many ways a miserable failure and only slowly got better after numerous complaints form fans, although it never lived up to what was promised and failed to deliver quality (crappily encoded MP3s, video rips in B&W from VHS tapes of Japanese TV-broadcasts,...). In year two they screwed fans and failed to deliver what was promised. The WMAs of a later implementation stopped working after the service shut down (so now you are stuck with worthless, unplayable files on your computer; most of those songs have not been released elsewhere). CD-Singles that were only available at some concerts so the only way to get them if by paying inflated prices to fans who managed to purchase some.

.

Really? That's the legacy you want to promote?

.

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical. Instead we got a jungle of URLs, failed webshops, webshops where shipping costs outweigh the value of the product you're purchasing,... Oh yes, and stories of tour books being pulped instead of being sold online.

.

What a master of business.

BartVanHemelen said:

JoshuaWho said:

We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion.

.

What did Prince do in the 1990s (NOT THE 2000s) that was different from what plenty of independent artists had bene doing for years? Since when is going to Clive Davis and promising to cooperate so he could provide Prince with a Santana-like comeback "on the cutting edge"? Since when is operating a "service" for which the word "half-assed" is too good a description revolutionary?

.

Sure, NPGMC was a brave step, but that wasn't in the 1990s. And it was in many ways a miserable failure and only slowly got better after numerous complaints form fans, although it never lived up to what was promised and failed to deliver quality (crappily encoded MP3s, video rips in B&W from VHS tapes of Japanese TV-broadcasts,...). In year two they screwed fans and failed to deliver what was promised. The WMAs of a later implementation stopped working after the service shut down (so now you are stuck with worthless, unplayable files on your computer; most of those songs have not been released elsewhere). CD-Singles that were only available at some concerts so the only way to get them if by paying inflated prices to fans who managed to purchase some.

.

Really? That's the legacy you want to promote?

.

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical. Instead we got a jungle of URLs, failed webshops, webshops where shipping costs outweigh the value of the product you're purchasing,... Oh yes, and stories of tour books being pulped instead of being sold online.

.

What a master of business.

[Edited 11/6/14 2:07am]

JoshuaWho said:

BartVanHemelen said:

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical. Instead we got a jungle of URLs, failed webshops, webshops where shipping costs outweigh the value of the product you're purchasing,... Oh yes, and stories of tour books being pulped instead of being sold online.

.

What a master of business.

Or to put it another way: Music | righteousbabe

[Edited 11/6/14 5:45am]

BartVanHemelen said:

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical.

The funny thing is, how long would this take to set up - a couple of days at most? He's got a webstore selling digital music, why isn't all his stuff up there? All the NPGMC releases could be up there in the time it takes for someone to send the files to the company who does the website and upload the files and put the cover art on the webpage.

BartVanHemelen said:

JoshuaWho said:

We all know his 90s work is often maligned (be it deserved or not) yet a historical review of that decade shows Prince as the cutting edge leader again - but on the business side of muisic. He was ahead of his time (despite complaints about NPG MUsic Club and various web-based ventures) and will probably never get the recognition that he should for breaking new ground in distribution channels, marketing, and promotion.

.

What did Prince do in the 1990s (NOT THE 2000s) that was different from what plenty of independent artists had bene doing for years? Since when is going to Clive Davis and promising to cooperate so he could provide Prince with a Santana-like comeback "on the cutting edge"? Since when is operating a "service" for which the word "half-assed" is too good a description revolutionary?

.

Sure, NPGMC was a brave step, but that wasn't in the 1990s. And it was in many ways a miserable failure and only slowly got better after numerous complaints form fans, although it never lived up to what was promised and failed to deliver quality (crappily encoded MP3s, video rips in B&W from VHS tapes of Japanese TV-broadcasts,...). In year two they screwed fans and failed to deliver what was promised. The WMAs of a later implementation stopped working after the service shut down (so now you are stuck with worthless, unplayable files on your computer; most of those songs have not been released elsewhere). CD-Singles that were only available at some concerts so the only way to get them if by paying inflated prices to fans who managed to purchase some.

.

Really? That's the legacy you want to promote?

.

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical. Instead we got a jungle of URLs, failed webshops, webshops where shipping costs outweigh the value of the product you're purchasing,... Oh yes, and stories of tour books being pulped instead of being sold online.

.

What a master of business.

The fact that he was a major accomplished "establishment" artist with the foresight and courage to CHOOSE to do something similar to what independent unsigned artists HAD to do. Indie bands have nothing to lose striking out on the net and using alternative distribution. Prince was a mainstream pioneer. And he was recognized somewhat for his unconventional approaches - he got a Webby award. For many, NPG Music Club worked - it did for me personally. He certainly had some things that didnt work as well as others - but he was out there trying new things when his "peers" merely watched and accepted what corporate America gave them.

I think the difference is that I have been a marketing professional long enough to separate what fans wants Prince to do as a businessman and what makes business sense. I am among those who dont need to bitch about the fact that certain content is not online or why the site isnt what some critics say it should be. In that few people actually KNOW what the details truly are behind anything Prince does (though many come here and speak a if they do), I consider the intelligent option to be taking everything on face value - things that I may not agree with as a fan and a businessperson and those things that I admire or find intriguing. Oh there are certainly some amateurs that have done work for Prince - the most recent example being that horrific webcast on Yahoo. There is always room for improvement and a better way to do something - but you dont find that out sometimes unless you are out there doing something that hasnt been done. And in looking back on his career, I have to give Prince that - as an artist and as a businessman.

Not trying to get any converts - simply stating an alternative viewpoint and opinion. Agree or level your attacks if you must.

JoshuaWho said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

What did Prince do in the 1990s (NOT THE 2000s) that was different from what plenty of independent artists had bene doing for years? Since when is going to Clive Davis and promising to cooperate so he could provide Prince with a Santana-like comeback "on the cutting edge"? Since when is operating a "service" for which the word "half-assed" is too good a description revolutionary?

.

Sure, NPGMC was a brave step, but that wasn't in the 1990s. And it was in many ways a miserable failure and only slowly got better after numerous complaints form fans, although it never lived up to what was promised and failed to deliver quality (crappily encoded MP3s, video rips in B&W from VHS tapes of Japanese TV-broadcasts,...). In year two they screwed fans and failed to deliver what was promised. The WMAs of a later implementation stopped working after the service shut down (so now you are stuck with worthless, unplayable files on your computer; most of those songs have not been released elsewhere). CD-Singles that were only available at some concerts so the only way to get them if by paying inflated prices to fans who managed to purchase some.

.

Really? That's the legacy you want to promote?

.

You know what would have been a success? A consistent web presence, where you can still buy all of his independently released music today either in digital form or physical. Instead we got a jungle of URLs, failed webshops, webshops where shipping costs outweigh the value of the product you're purchasing,... Oh yes, and stories of tour books being pulped instead of being sold online.

.

What a master of business.

The fact that he was a major accomplished "establishment" artist with the foresight and courage to CHOOSE to do something similar to what independent unsigned artists HAD to do. Indie bands have nothing to lose striking out on the net and using alternative distribution. Prince was a mainstream pioneer. And he was recognized somewhat for his unconventional approaches - he got a Webby award. For many, NPG Music Club worked - it did for me personally. He certainly had some things that didnt work as well as others - but he was out there trying new things when his "peers" merely watched and accepted what corporate America gave them.

I think the difference is that I have been a marketing professional long enough to separate what fans wants Prince to do as a businessman and what makes business sense. I am among those who dont need to bitch about the fact that certain content is not online or why the site isnt what some critics say it should be. In that few people actually KNOW what the details truly are behind anything Prince does (though many come here and speak a if they do), I consider the intelligent option to be taking everything on face value - things that I may not agree with as a fan and a businessperson and those things that I admire or find intriguing. Oh there are certainly some amateurs that have done work for Prince - the most recent example being that horrific webcast on Yahoo. There is always room for improvement and a better way to do something - but you dont find that out sometimes unless you are out there doing something that hasnt been done. And in looking back on his career, I have to give Prince that - as an artist and as a businessman.

Not trying to get any converts - simply stating an alternative viewpoint and opinion. Agree or level your attacks if you must.

You are not making any sense. I get the fact that you are a fan and admire Prince, and that you are a marketing professional, but beyond that... I don't know what to make of what you say. What "New Distribution Channels" are you talking about? Catalogs and US Mail have been around forever. MP3's? Prince wasn't the first to do that, and of those that did, he probably had the least consumer friendly model available. Changing record labels everytime he gets an advance and the album flops? Hardly something to brag about. Selling direct to retailers? I bet Target and Best Buy wish they had that money back. NPGMusicClub? The fans demanded a refund (CNOTE).

What are you talking about?

And he was recognized somewhat for his unconventional approaches - he got a Webby award.

.

Which I found laughable.

.

For many, NPG Music Club worked - it did for me personally.

.

You do know NPGMC v1 was a massive failure, generated numerous complaints and finally was handed over to another company, right? They made plenty of improvements simply because fans kept bitching, and then they stopped because fans like you decided it was "good enough".

.

I think the difference is that I have been a marketing professional long enough to separate what fans wants Prince to do as a businessman and what makes business sense.

.

His post-WB catalogue being out of print makes business sense? Pulping unsold merchandise makes sense?

.

Oh there are certainly some amateurs that have done work for Prince - the most recent example being that horrific webcast on Yahoo. There is always room for improvement and a better way to do something - but you dont find that out sometimes unless you are out there doing something that hasnt been done.

.

Name me ANYTHING that prince has done in the past ten years that was unprecedented. Hint: an amateurish webcast isn't a good example.