lwr001 said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

Major symphony orchestra's dedicate whole shows to his music. Composers bow to him when he presents awards.. what the fuck is a musician's musician.. He not scared to go to a studii with anyone so please give me names of muscians musician that dont respect his ability; if not stfu

[Edited 11/3/14 8:47am]

[Edited 11/3/14 8:50am]

People bow to all kinds of pop stars, so what's your point? There have been orchestrated versions of many pop stars music, so what's your point? All I'm saying is musicians playing War Guitar or Chapman stick, or drummer's like Neal Peart or Marco Minneman, or guitar players like Fripp, or new groups like Animals Is Leaders, truly instrumental virtuosos, aren't shaking in there boots or citing Prince as an influence or even a blip on their radar. Prince influences mostly pop and funk acts, both genres of music that aren't exactly lauded for their "musicality". Once again, I'm not saying anything is wrong with what Prince does. Hell, he is a genius. But if he's wondered why he wasn't respected by MUSICIANS, not the general public, not those in the genre he dominates in, these are my opinions why.

stillwaiting said:

I usually side with Alan Leeds...but he's got it all wrong. Prince's cover makes it a better song. And he makes it a different song. Prince should have taken Alan's advice in 1987 and toured for SOTT...but Alan is dead wrong here. Maybe he is bitter.

But if another artist tried to cover/change HIS songs as much as he did hers...... tsk tsk tsk.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

stillwaiting said:

I usually side with Alan Leeds...but he's got it all wrong. Prince's cover makes it a better song. And he makes it a different song. Prince should have taken Alan's advice in 1987 and toured for SOTT...but Alan is dead wrong here. Maybe he is bitter.

But if another artist tried to cover/change HIS songs as much as he did hers...... tsk tsk tsk.

She's covered Pop Life..Morgan James has a cover of Call my name out now.

jaawwnn said:

thing in common bar the title, and the prince one is lover not love. I would have never heard of Alice Smith or this song if it wasn't for Prince but I do think her version is much better.

I hear it in the backing harmonies, and a throwback to a lot of the piano work Prince was doing.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

lwr001 said:

Major symphony orchestra's dedicate whole shows to his music. Composers bow to him when he presents awards.. what the fuck is a musician's musician.. He not scared to go to a studii with anyone so please give me names of muscians musician that dont respect his ability; if not stfu

[Edited 11/3/14 8:47am]

[Edited 11/3/14 8:50am]

People bow to all kinds of pop stars, so what's your point? There have been orchestrated versions of many pop stars music, so what's your point? All I'm saying is musicians playing War Guitar or Chapman stick, or drummer's like Neal Peart or Marco Minneman, or guitar players like Fripp, or new groups like Animals Is Leaders, truly instrumental virtuosos, aren't shaking in there boots or citing Prince as an influence or even a blip on their radar. Prince influences mostly pop and funk acts, both genres of music that aren't exactly lauded for their "musicality". Once again, I'm not saying anything is wrong with what Prince does. Hell, he is a genius. But if he's wondered why he wasn't respected by MUSICIANS, not the general public, not those in the genre he dominates in, these are my opinions why.

Wow ,how much ignorance and lack of knowladge in your post.Funk is not louded for their musicality? really? Do you know how hard is ito play in a perfect timing music that is full of syncopation? Do you even know what syncopa is?

PRince influenced a lot of bands and musicians from every

genre of music.

there is a lot of his music that is very complex and its not easy to reproduce Princes music when you try to cover him. man you dont have a clue.

thebanishedone said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

People bow to all kinds of pop stars, so what's your point? There have been orchestrated versions of many pop stars music, so what's your point? All I'm saying is musicians playing War Guitar or Chapman stick, or drummer's like Neal Peart or Marco Minneman, or guitar players like Fripp, or new groups like Animals Is Leaders, truly instrumental virtuosos, aren't shaking in there boots or citing Prince as an influence or even a blip on their radar. Prince influences mostly pop and funk acts, both genres of music that aren't exactly lauded for their "musicality". Once again, I'm not saying anything is wrong with what Prince does. Hell, he is a genius. But if he's wondered why he wasn't respected by MUSICIANS, not the general public, not those in the genre he dominates in, these are my opinions why.

Wow ,how much ignorance and lack of knowladge in your post.Funk is not louded for their musicality? really? Do you know how hard is ito play in a perfect timing music that is full of syncopation? Do you even know what syncopa is?

PRince influenced a lot of bands and musicians from every

genre of music.

there is a lot of his music that is very complex and its not easy to reproduce Princes music when you try to cover him. man you dont have a clue.

Actually, yes I do. But you're talking about groove and rhythm feel, something that funk music IS lauded for. That's completely different than what I mean with "musicality". But it doesn't matter. Let's just agree to disagree.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

thebanishedone said:

Wow ,how much ignorance and lack of knowladge in your post.Funk is not louded for their musicality? really? Do you know how hard is ito play in a perfect timing music that is full of syncopation? Do you even know what syncopa is?

PRince influenced a lot of bands and musicians from every

genre of music.

there is a lot of his music that is very complex and its not easy to reproduce Princes music when you try to cover him. man you dont have a clue.

Actually, yes I do. But you're talking about groove and rhythm feel, something that funk music IS lauded for. That's completely different than what I mean with "musicality". But it doesn't matter. Let's just agree to disagree.

enlighten me top musciality please as i am woefully ignorant

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I kinda agree with Alan. I've felt Prince's live shows have been lacking for years, turning great songs into schmaltzy-Vegas style fuck-lite fests or completely changing the lyrics to fit his religious affiliation. Now I'm not saying a grown man should be singing some of the stuff he did when he was younger, but that's why you just don't play those songs! I don't think his live playing has been bad, its just uninspired, boring and retread.

And 3rdEyeGirl? Do you guys really think these are great musicians? Are they bad, no. But they are not top tier musicians, nor are they overly creative to make up for their lack of musicianship. They truly are being used because they are attractive, not because they are that good, and I believe that's what Alan was referring to.

It's hard to please a big crowd without playing the hits and it's even harder not to get tired of playing the same damn songs for 3 decades. To be honest I've always preferred his small club gigs. Different setlists and he really seems to enjoy playing at those venues.

Regarding 3EG, they're really not THAT attractive so I doubt that's why they're in the band. He probably likes them because they kiss his ass. He's a sucker for submissive chicks.

lwr001 said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Actually, yes I do. But you're talking about groove and rhythm feel, something that funk music IS lauded for. That's completely different than what I mean with "musicality". But it doesn't matter. Let's just agree to disagree.

enlighten me top musciality please as i am woefully ignorant

I doubt you're ignorant to it, you probably just don't like it. Think of musicians that can play their asses of, be it odd times and phrases or drum techniques that seem virtually impossible to play by a human, or guitar parts that sound like they are moving in and out of the rhythym of the song, because they align and become disjointed at that same interval, and all of this stuff is perfectly aligned.... that's what I consider "musicality" or "musician's music". Honestly, most of the stuff that wows me on a technical level bores me on an emotional level. It's cold, it's not the type of music you dance to, it's the kind you sit down and examine and are wowed by the sheer mechanics of it all.

EvilAngel said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I kinda agree with Alan. I've felt Prince's live shows have been lacking for years, turning great songs into schmaltzy-Vegas style fuck-lite fests or completely changing the lyrics to fit his religious affiliation. Now I'm not saying a grown man should be singing some of the stuff he did when he was younger, but that's why you just don't play those songs! I don't think his live playing has been bad, its just uninspired, boring and retread.

And 3rdEyeGirl? Do you guys really think these are great musicians? Are they bad, no. But they are not top tier musicians, nor are they overly creative to make up for their lack of musicianship. They truly are being used because they are attractive, not because they are that good, and I believe that's what Alan was referring to.

It's hard to please a big crowd without playing the hits and it's even harder not to get tired of playing the same damn songs for 3 decades. To be honest I've always preferred his small club gigs. Different setlists and he really seems to enjoy playing at those venues.

Regarding 3EG, they're really not THAT attractive so I doubt that's why they're in the band. He probably likes them because they kiss his ass. He's a sucker for submissive chicks.

Yeah, true, but considering some of the female musicians I've seen...... lol

But I don't mind him playing the hits. Hell, I just want him to play songs all the way through without turning them into Big Band Plays The Hits!

[Edited 11/3/14 11:25am]

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

stillwaiting said:

I usually side with Alan Leeds...but he's got it all wrong. Prince's cover makes it a better song. And he makes it a different song. Prince should have taken Alan's advice in 1987 and toured for SOTT...but Alan is dead wrong here. Maybe he is bitter.

But if another artist tried to cover/change HIS songs as much as he did hers...... tsk tsk tsk.

Prince has a selective memory on such things. If she covered Pop Life and it was a well known hit, then he would start playing it at every show, etc. But Alan just seems off base here.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

lwr001 said:

enlighten me top musciality please as i am woefully ignorant

I doubt you're ignorant to it, you probably just don't like it. Think of musicians that can play their asses of, be it odd times and phrases or drum techniques that seem virtually impossible to play by a human, or guitar parts that sound like they are moving in and out of the rhythym of the song, because they align and become disjointed at that same interval, and all of this stuff is perfectly aligned.... that's what I consider "musicality" or "musician's music". Honestly, most of the stuff that wows me on a technical level bores me on an emotional level. It's cold, it's not the type of music you dance to, it's the kind you sit down and examine and are wowed by the sheer mechanics of it all.

i live down the street from berkley symphony hall and the new england conservatory.. Musicians of all walks of life and styles etc..Very technically proficient players but no a lot of wow factor

lwr001 said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I doubt you're ignorant to it, you probably just don't like it. Think of musicians that can play their asses of, be it odd times and phrases or drum techniques that seem virtually impossible to play by a human, or guitar parts that sound like they are moving in and out of the rhythym of the song, because they align and become disjointed at that same interval, and all of this stuff is perfectly aligned.... that's what I consider "musicality" or "musician's music". Honestly, most of the stuff that wows me on a technical level bores me on an emotional level. It's cold, it's not the type of music you dance to, it's the kind you sit down and examine and are wowed by the sheer mechanics of it all.

i live down the street from berkley symphony hall and the new england conservatory.. Musicians of all walks of life and styles etc..Very technically proficient players but no a lot of wow factor

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I am friends with alot of those types.... wonderfully technical but can't write a "good" song for shit! lol

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

lwr001 said:

i live down the street from berkley symphony hall and the new england conservatory.. Musicians of all walks of life and styles etc..Very technically proficient players but no a lot of wow factor

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I am friends with alot of those types.... wonderfully technical but can't write a "good" song for shit! lol

Phew ok, we are good now...

paulludvig said:

wonder505 said:

Prince has not paid Alan Leeds any mind in 20 years and that is the behind the scenes frustration for Alan Leeds.

Yes,what on earth could the behind the scenes frustration be, and how is it connected with Another Love?

Staying out of it, beyond what I said...

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

Yes,what on earth could the behind the scenes frustration be, and how is it connected with Another Love?

Staying out of it, beyond what I said...

Oh ..come on!

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

All of this is wrong. He IS respected as a musician, he HAS branched out from a blues based style and he DOES compose complex music with different sections.

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

...care to name a so-called "musicians musician" that doesn't respect Prince's musicianship? i've never heard any such foolishness. Whoever that person might be, i'd like to see them pick up an axe and replicate a "non-complex" Prince isntrumental like, say, the "When Doves Cry" intro....

Alan Leeds is a tired old man trying to profit off his relationship with the man, pretty pathetic. It's amusing listening to all of the disgruntled employees Prince has left in his wake....he just lets them talk....never responds.....in Prince's mind, I don't think these people exist

prince is no alice smith? absolutely right he ain't. he's PRINCE. nuff said

Lawd have mercy!

lwr001 said:

tollyc said:

Well said.

You know what contrived is Alan..,. You working currently for the biggest Prnce Stan in years, D'Angelo and since D cant get Prince you bring Jesse into the band; the irony of your words..GTFOH

[Edited 11/2/14 7:28am]

[Edited 11/2/14 8:25am]

Consider the source! Alan Leeds also thought Prince shouldn't have walked away from Paisley Park Records and felt that Paisley Park records was a great situation. 20 years later Prince and his NPG Records own and control his master tapes and publishing. Leeds is an industry cat and you know they can't be trusted, so his criticisms/observations mean next to nothing. As far as Prince's age and what people feel he should be doing, WHATEVER!!!! I never hear that shit about the Rolling Stones. Bottomline Prince's shit is in order and he's his own man and can basically do whatever the fuck he wants, get paid handsomely for it and still retain his respectability and his artistic credibility. Artistically, the saga continues to be as interesting as it ever was and i'd love to know how many other artists with the same amount of time in the industry can still be interesting and continue to grow.

And Alan Leeds is NO PRINCE Carry on

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

lwr001 said:

Major symphony orchestra's dedicate whole shows to his music. Composers bow to him when he presents awards.. what the fuck is a musician's musician.. He not scared to go to a studii with anyone so please give me names of muscians musician that dont respect his ability; if not stfu

[Edited 11/3/14 8:47am]

[Edited 11/3/14 8:50am]

People bow to all kinds of pop stars, so what's your point? There have been orchestrated versions of many pop stars music, so what's your point? All I'm saying is musicians playing War Guitar or Chapman stick, or drummer's like Neal Peart or Marco Minneman, or guitar players like Fripp, or new groups like Animals Is Leaders, truly instrumental virtuosos, aren't shaking in there boots or citing Prince as an influence or even a blip on their radar. Prince influences mostly pop and funk acts, both genres of music that aren't exactly lauded for their "musicality". Once again, I'm not saying anything is wrong with what Prince does. Hell, he is a genius. But if he's wondered why he wasn't respected by MUSICIANS, not the general public, not those in the genre he dominates in, these are my opinions why.

Established musicians from the past decades started incorporating many aspects from Prince's music into their own music when Prince became more known. The list includes Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock and Bootsy Collins. Prince isn't necessarily revered by "musician's musicians" for his skill on any individual instrument, but his style in arrangements, rhythmic structures and his general vibe is loved by many and quite a considerable number of well-known artists have gone as far as imitating his style on their records.

What does a musician playing an instrument like the Chapman Stick having not mentioned Prince as an influence have to do with anything? I had to google myself what a "war guitar" is and I suppose you are referring to the the guitars manufactured by Warr Guitars that have an unusually high number of strings and large fretboards. Playing an unsual variation of a more widely-available instrument doesn't mean your music would be somehow superior.

If we're honest about it, a lot of the "musician's music" has remained a closed circle thing for the simple reason that the music just isn't very good. There also seems to exist a link between appreciationg the ability to play fast and in odd time signatures and questionable overall taste (as reflected by the fantasy / role-playing game thematics utilized by some of the modern prog favourites like Dream Theater).

[Edited 11/4/14 4:54am]

treehouse said:

jaawwnn said:

thing in common bar the title, and the prince one is lover not love. I would have never heard of Alice Smith or this song if it wasn't for Prince but I do think her version is much better.

I hear it in the backing harmonies, and a throwback to a lot of the piano work Prince was doing.

for real? huh... i'll go listen again sure

Add Rick James to your list someone who was 'THE MAN' pre Prince.

Music is subjective.. I love Prince!!! but, his music isnt my favourite.

Im surrounded by Professional musicians all the time.. DAILY!

I've never met anyone that hasnt eventually

agreed with me that Prince is a Bad Mofo!

novabrkr said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

People bow to all kinds of pop stars, so what's your point? There have been orchestrated versions of many pop stars music, so what's your point? All I'm saying is musicians playing War Guitar or Chapman stick, or drummer's like Neal Peart or Marco Minneman, or guitar players like Fripp, or new groups like Animals Is Leaders, truly instrumental virtuosos, aren't shaking in there boots or citing Prince as an influence or even a blip on their radar. Prince influences mostly pop and funk acts, both genres of music that aren't exactly lauded for their "musicality". Once again, I'm not saying anything is wrong with what Prince does. Hell, he is a genius. But if he's wondered why he wasn't respected by MUSICIANS, not the general public, not those in the genre he dominates in, these are my opinions why.

Established musicians from the past decades started incorporating many aspects from Prince's music into their own music when Prince became more known. The list includes Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock and Bootsy Collins. Prince isn't necessarily revered by "musician's musicians" for his skill on any individual instrument, but his style in arrangements, rhythmic structures and his general vibe is loved by many and quite a considerable number of well-known artists have gone as far as imitating his style on their records.

What the does a musician playing an instrument like the Chapman Stick having not mentioned Prince as an influence have to do with anything? I had to google myself what a "war guitar" is and I suppose you are referring to the the guitars manufactured by Warr Guitars that have an unusually high number of strings and large fretboards. Playing an unsual variation of a more widely-available instrument doesn't mean your music would be somehow superior.

If we're honest about it, a lot of the "musician's music" has remained a closed circle thing for the simple reason that the music just isn't very good. There also seems to exist a link between appreciationg the ability to play fast and in odd time signatures and questionable overall taste (as reflected by the fantasy / role-playing game thematics utilized by some of the modern prog favourites like Dream Theater).

[Edited 11/4/14 1:28am]

it dawned in me watching P play Keys on Clouds that as a collective; no one is seeing him this week, month or year ..Meaning he has mastered a shit ton of instruments and singing, dancing , poerforming etc that they wont see in their lifetime,, yay , i am talking about musicians musicians..

And at the end if the day, he got something, their talent doesnt...the most important song catalog of the last 40 years.. not close or up for debate,,

Ego101 said:

Add Rick James to your list someone who was 'THE MAN' pre Prince.
[...]

I would, but Prince actually had his first record out before Rick James had his first record out! Come Get It! came out a few weeks after For You did.

Rick just became a star on his own right before Prince did and was more experienced as a songwriter and musician (he was already in his 30s). That can easily provide one the impression that Rick had been releasing records before Prince did, but that's not the case. Of course, once Prince did albums like 1999 and Purple Rain Rick started copying him too and sometimes the copying was so blatant that you'd just have to shake your head in disbelief (the intro to "New York Town" that's pretty much the same as on "Lady Cab Driver", the music video to "Glow" ripping off "Purple Rain", the sitar stuff on "The Flag", "Loosey's Rap" having more than just a passing resemblance to Prince's stuff from the SOTT days, etc.). He said he disliked Prince but it seemed like he wanted to be him at the same time.