He is done.

I don't mean he is no longer a great live performer, or that once in a while he will put out a few likeable songs or an ok album.

This is for all of us who were Prince fans in the 90s and were expecting his 90s Sign of the Times or Lovesexy album meisterwerk and When Doves Cry meister single neither of which ever came.

We thought it was the Gold Experience but though it was good, it didnt transcend. We thought he was holding back because he was angry with Warners and it would all come out with Emancipation but that didnt happen. In fact he was so angry he got mad at his fans and went after them as well...so much so that this fan website cant even post a single image of him to this day.

No the truth was that Prince's ego got bigger and bigger, his relationship with reality became more complex (Jehova's Witnesses and control freakery), he refused to let anyone discipline his musical excesses and the music industry itself changed fundamentally in ways that did not jive with his changes (more reality based, more open, more collaborative and less controlling). Whereas in the 80s we had an interview with Kurt Loder with Prince driving around his neighbour hood, in the 90s we had him on Top of the Pops with a Burka and unwilling to speak.

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

U2 had their 80s and 90s moments: Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby

Madonna was actually much better in the 90s than the 80s

Anyway, the result of all of this (and the point of this post) is that there are a large number of post 80s tracks for which you can say "There is an excellent song in there somewhere". Songs for which you could see different compositional or other musical choices would have produced absolute brilliance.

To my mind CLOUDS is just the latest in this line and it has two issues...an overlong voice over that kills the mood and a refusal to strengthen the main hook (to me it is a few notes too short)...80s Prince would have played with the hook in a cooky way that really made it work but made it hard to understand why -hence making it inspired genious. Anyway, here for debate is my first go at a list of other "What could have been" 90s songs up to and including Emancipation:

We can Funk- lots has been said about this already but I think a slower more throbbing groove and fewer computers would have helped...

Thunder - it has a lovely hook but just goes overboard without doing anything too imaginative

My name is Prince - The title and theme are an idiotic ego trip but it has a lot of potential with the catchy AAh AAh. More use of the AAh AAh as a hook, a Tony M less version and a song title change Music is King with changed lyrics ( music is king its so damn funky, I am its Prince, I am its junkie) would have nailed a hit I reckon.

Love 2 the 9s - Take out the rap and the Mayte and Tony M voice over and you're left with a lovely jazzy tune...maybe add something out there like a jazz violin coda to take it to the next level.

Blue Light, I wanna melt with you, Sweet Baby- there are catchier and weightier versions of these songs in another universe.

Come - the song feels weirdly distant but there is something there that wasnt properly captured.

Pheremone and Space - Am i the only one who thinks these were potentially massive hits? Something missing in both but not sure what.

Endorphine Machine, Dolphin - I cant put my finger on it except that the guitar is completely subdued in the album versions and both feel too computerised but they need more changes than that.

Billy Jack Bitch - replace the weak chorus and bring the fabulous horns to the main and make a chorus with a strong hook that incorporates them.

We March - replace the weak chorus and add some more creativity.

I still think a single album combinining the best of Come and Gold Experience could have been Prince's album of the decade..

Dinner with Delores - again subdued instruments and a lack of creative edge make it sound empty

Emancipation has so many of these I will just list them. If a conversation starts in the thread I might elaborate on them:

Jam of the Year, Sex in the Summer, White Mansion, Somebody's Somebody, The Holy River, Damned if I do (the latin bit at the end should have been the whole basis for the song), In this Bed I Scream, Sleep Around, My Computer, the Love We Make, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife.

Ok will stop now...lets see if anyone bites constructively!

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

Right.

you certainly put some work into that post, but you are bonkers, and need to put that energy into something else!

exactly, go sit your ass down somewhere and contribute something to this world other than this

Nice reception guys, and here's me thinking this is a discussion forum about Prince's music.

NouveauDance said:

laurarichardson said:

NouveauDance said:

Nice reception guys, and here's me thinking this is a discussion forum about Prince's music.

--// Not when it is bullshit.

thank you

Buttox said:

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

Prince had a huge career in the 90s. Towards the end of the decade perhaps not so much. Many of the artists who now look to Prince for inspiration - D'angelo, Alicia Keys, Timberlake etc etc missed out on the 80s.

The myth about Prince and the 80's is so played out it's unreal. He didn't score a UK #1 single till TMBGITW was released. His popularity in America may have declined in the 90's but on an international level he was still putting out top 10 singles and #1 albums.

I think people confuse their own prefered era with actual facts.

i do agree it's tempting to look at songs as 'editors/producers' and offer our insights into what would make them better (which may or may not help the song in the end), but the fact remains it was/is prince's final decision what to leave in, or out of a song anything he desires.

it's still fun to fantasise about such things and to be blatantly nasty in your comments is pointless. just don't comment if you have nothing to offer.

I always think RnR affair could be better with the hook/chours being used earlier/throughout the song - the chorus doesn't even make an appearance in the original radio edit? go figure.

[Edited 11/16/14 11:19am]

Noodled24 said:

Buttox said:

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

Prince had a huge career in the 90s. Towards the end of the decade perhaps not so much. Many of the artists who now look to Prince for inspiration - D'angelo, Alicia Keys, Timberlake etc etc missed out on the 80s.

The myth about Prince and the 80's is so played out it's unreal. He didn't score a UK #1 single till TMBGITW was released. His popularity in America may have declined in the 90's but on an international level he was still putting out top 10 singles and #1 albums.

I think people confuse their own prefered era with actual facts.

I don't think his 80's legacy was so played out, it just is what it is. These were the facts:

From 1979-1989 Prince sold over 56 million albums.

Two diamond albums, Purple Rain: 21m Batman: 11m

8 platinum albums

4 Grammys

Numerous AMA, MTV, Soul Train Awards

Academy Award

Over 20 Top 40 Hits

Writing Top 10 hits for other artists

4 albums on the Greatest albums of all times lists...

Prince become one of the greatest if not the greatest artist of the 80's.

I wasn't talking about his 80s legacy/albums/songs. Rather the myth that his career was over come December 31 1989.

laurarichardson said:

Not when it is bullshit.

But then why are y..... Nah, too easy.

The rumours of Prince's professional passing have been premature for almost 20 years now.

He doesn't need to sell huge amounts, the money is not in that for him (and for very few performers these days). This means he can continue releasing music that pleases him without a care in the world, since he most likely figures he won't be a huge seller this year or in the future.

People need to get a clue, Prince has redefined what success means to him. Have you?

Aerogram said:

People need to get a clue, Prince has redefined what success means to him.

Boom. There it is.

Aerogram said:

Buttox said:

He is done.

I don't mean he is no longer a great live performer, or that once in a while he will put out a few likeable songs or an ok album.

This is for all of us who were Prince fans in the 90s and were expecting his 90s Sign of the Times or Lovesexy album meisterwerk and When Doves Cry meister single neither of which ever came.

We thought it was the Gold Experience but though it was good, it didnt transcend. We thought he was holding back because he was angry with Warners and it would all come out with Emancipation but that didnt happen. In fact he was so angry he got mad at his fans and went after them as well...so much so that this fan website cant even post a single image of him to this day.

No the truth was that Prince's ego got bigger and bigger, his relationship with reality became more complex (Jehova's Witnesses and control freakery), he refused to let anyone discipline his musical excesses and the music industry itself changed fundamentally in ways that did not jive with his changes (more reality based, more open, more collaborative and less controlling). Whereas in the 80s we had an interview with Kurt Loder with Prince driving around his neighbour hood, in the 90s we had him on Top of the Pops with a Burka and unwilling to speak.

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

U2 had their 80s and 90s moments: Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby

Madonna was actually much better in the 90s than the 80s

Anyway, the result of all of this (and the point of this post) is that there are a large number of post 80s tracks for which you can say "There is an excellent song in there somewhere". Songs for which you could see different compositional or other musical choices would have produced absolute brilliance.

To my mind CLOUDS is just the latest in this line and it has two issues...an overlong voice over that kills the mood and a refusal to strengthen the main hook (to me it is a few notes too short)...80s Prince would have played with the hook in a cooky way that really made it work but made it hard to understand why -hence making it inspired genious. Anyway, here for debate is my first go at a list of other "What could have been" 90s songs up to and including Emancipation:

We can Funk- lots has been said about this already but I think a slower more throbbing groove and fewer computers would have helped...

Thunder - it has a lovely hook but just goes overboard without doing anything too imaginative

My name is Prince - The title and theme are an idiotic ego trip but it has a lot of potential with the catchy AAh AAh. More use of the AAh AAh as a hook, a Tony M less version and a song title change Music is King with changed lyrics ( music is king its so damn funky, I am its Prince, I am its junkie) would have nailed a hit I reckon.

Love 2 the 9s - Take out the rap and the Mayte and Tony M voice over and you're left with a lovely jazzy tune...maybe add something out there like a jazz violin coda to take it to the next level.

Blue Light, I wanna melt with you, Sweet Baby- there are catchier and weightier versions of these songs in another universe.

Come - the song feels weirdly distant but there is something there that wasnt properly captured.

Pheremone and Space - Am i the only one who thinks these were potentially massive hits? Something missing in both but not sure what.

Endorphine Machine, Dolphin - I cant put my finger on it except that the guitar is completely subdued in the album versions and both feel too computerised but they need more changes than that.

Billy Jack Bitch - replace the weak chorus and bring the fabulous horns to the main and make a chorus with a strong hook that incorporates them.

We March - replace the weak chorus and add some more creativity.

I still think a single album combinining the best of Come and Gold Experience could have been Prince's album of the decade..

Dinner with Delores - again subdued instruments and a lack of creative edge make it sound empty

Emancipation has so many of these I will just list them. If a conversation starts in the thread I might elaborate on them:

Jam of the Year, Sex in the Summer, White Mansion, Somebody's Somebody, The Holy River, Damned if I do (the latin bit at the end should have been the whole basis for the song), In this Bed I Scream, Sleep Around, My Computer, the Love We Make, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife.

Ok will stop now...lets see if anyone bites constructively!

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

I love when Prince fans begin reproducing his work!

Buddy, Prince's inability to produce music like he used to has loads to do with the fact that he's no longer the same guy, the music world he led changed by 1989, he was beginning to chase trends as opposed to making them, and maybe most importantly, Prince was no longer an artist that people were exploring and getting to know like they did through the 80s.

Changing his name to a symbol made him unrelatable when everyone was pushing to be more accessible. Further still, through the 90s you had the hip hop thugs and the machismo of grunge. Prince and his high heels wasn't really going to fly - rather, it was becoming a harder thing to sell.

That aside, the critiques of how he produced, composed, and arranged his material are completely subjective interpretations. That said, the majesty of his earlier material through the 80s was lost through the 90s/2000s/2010s in my opinion. There's still a lot of material that I enjoy that was released after the 80s but the Prince from afer the 80s didn't ever create a Kiss, or When Doves Cry, or Purple Rain, or Do U Lie or Anna Stesia or the list goes on from the 80s.

Prince's most important compositions happened in the 80s... I agree.

1. I count 2-4 era defining albums in the 80s...none in the 90s.
2. Ask regular joes to list iconic Prince songs and the 80s list will be much larger than the 90s.
3. Without the 80s Prince would be in the same league as D'angelo or Lenny Kravitz...great artists but not iconic ones.

10000Degrees said:

Buttox said:

He is done.

I don't mean he is no longer a great live performer, or that once in a while he will put out a few likeable songs or an ok album.

This is for all of us who were Prince fans in the 90s and were expecting his 90s Sign of the Times or Lovesexy album meisterwerk and When Doves Cry meister single neither of which ever came.

We thought it was the Gold Experience but though it was good, it didnt transcend. We thought he was holding back because he was angry with Warners and it would all come out with Emancipation but that didnt happen. In fact he was so angry he got mad at his fans and went after them as well...so much so that this fan website cant even post a single image of him to this day.

No the truth was that Prince's ego got bigger and bigger, his relationship with reality became more complex (Jehova's Witnesses and control freakery), he refused to let anyone discipline his musical excesses and the music industry itself changed fundamentally in ways that did not jive with his changes (more reality based, more open, more collaborative and less controlling). Whereas in the 80s we had an interview with Kurt Loder with Prince driving around his neighbour hood, in the 90s we had him on Top of the Pops with a Burka and unwilling to speak.

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

U2 had their 80s and 90s moments: Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby

Madonna was actually much better in the 90s than the 80s

Anyway, the result of all of this (and the point of this post) is that there are a large number of post 80s tracks for which you can say "There is an excellent song in there somewhere". Songs for which you could see different compositional or other musical choices would have produced absolute brilliance.

To my mind CLOUDS is just the latest in this line and it has two issues...an overlong voice over that kills the mood and a refusal to strengthen the main hook (to me it is a few notes too short)...80s Prince would have played with the hook in a cooky way that really made it work but made it hard to understand why -hence making it inspired genious. Anyway, here for debate is my first go at a list of other "What could have been" 90s songs up to and including Emancipation:

We can Funk- lots has been said about this already but I think a slower more throbbing groove and fewer computers would have helped...

Thunder - it has a lovely hook but just goes overboard without doing anything too imaginative

My name is Prince - The title and theme are an idiotic ego trip but it has a lot of potential with the catchy AAh AAh. More use of the AAh AAh as a hook, a Tony M less version and a song title change Music is King with changed lyrics ( music is king its so damn funky, I am its Prince, I am its junkie) would have nailed a hit I reckon.

Love 2 the 9s - Take out the rap and the Mayte and Tony M voice over and you're left with a lovely jazzy tune...maybe add something out there like a jazz violin coda to take it to the next level.

Blue Light, I wanna melt with you, Sweet Baby- there are catchier and weightier versions of these songs in another universe.

Come - the song feels weirdly distant but there is something there that wasnt properly captured.

Pheremone and Space - Am i the only one who thinks these were potentially massive hits? Something missing in both but not sure what.

Endorphine Machine, Dolphin - I cant put my finger on it except that the guitar is completely subdued in the album versions and both feel too computerised but they need more changes than that.

Billy Jack Bitch - replace the weak chorus and bring the fabulous horns to the main and make a chorus with a strong hook that incorporates them.

We March - replace the weak chorus and add some more creativity.

I still think a single album combinining the best of Come and Gold Experience could have been Prince's album of the decade..

Dinner with Delores - again subdued instruments and a lack of creative edge make it sound empty

Emancipation has so many of these I will just list them. If a conversation starts in the thread I might elaborate on them:

Jam of the Year, Sex in the Summer, White Mansion, Somebody's Somebody, The Holy River, Damned if I do (the latin bit at the end should have been the whole basis for the song), In this Bed I Scream, Sleep Around, My Computer, the Love We Make, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife.

Ok will stop now...lets see if anyone bites constructively!

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

The battle with Warner Brothers in the 90's pulled him down in terms of his career. P was so angry with them, he didn't want them to have any more of his best work so that they could half-ass promote it, as they did with previous albums. He just put out albums to complete his contract agreement with them. That's probably why we never got a Purple Rain or Sign O' the Times of the 90's. Prince was in constant battle with Warners, until Emancipation, which happened in 1996 or 1997; i forget which year.

Clouds...you have to understand, Prince has probably made thousands of songs. Every song isn't going to be perfect. Clouds sounds different and familiar; it's a mid-tempo song that clearly only Prince could do but in terms of the Purple Pantheon of sounds, it's something different. Remember Prince said, in DMSR, "All I wanna do is Dance, play music, sex, romance, try my best to never get bored." If you think about that line, then you can understand why he puts out some of the songs he does. My problem with Clouds is that it's not an intense song like a Beautiful Ones or Annie Christian. I dig it when Prince is intense, like in Da Bang. Clouds is just not an intense track.

We Can Funk is intense. I don't get people's dislike for this song. The keyboards are Parliament-Funkadelic/Prince and George Clinton at their finest.

Thunder - if you sing along to this one, you'll get "it". It's intense too. A bit too religious or something for me but the instruments are "turned up to 10"/fiery.

My Name Is Prince - I never really liked this one, but that's ok...we aren't going to like everything.

Love 2 the 9's - again, pretty exceptional...sing along to this one at the same rate as P does and you should get the intensity of emotion on this song. At least, I do. Plus the keyboard work on this one is first rate.

Blue Light - kicks ass. Prince doing reggae? Pretty good.

Melt With U - never did like this one much.

Sweet Baby - ditto on Melt with U.

Come - the bass and groove on this one rock. To use my favorite word, it's pretty "intense", which means P is at his best.

Pheromone - music isn't that great on this one. I still like the "it's so crazy baby...Pheromone" line.

Space - pretty good. Like everybody else, I really love the Universal Love remix the best. So, at least we got that. Can't help it that Warner Brothers didn't really promote this song. So...

EndorphinMachine and Dolphin - they both sound better elsewhere, I agree, Endorphin on the Interactive CD was probably better and Dolphin on David Letterman was probably better. P frustrates me too sometimes by not cutting loose on guitar like he should in the 90's and 2000's. To me, even on Plectrum, he didn't cut loose with wild guitar like he should.

Billy Jack Bitch and We March -- I can't stand either one. So, those are just bad song choices for an album. Shit happens sometimes.

Dinner with Delores - kicks ass to me. It sounds different and different in this case is all good. I love the short guitar solo, too. There's just something about this song. You either like it or you don't.

All of the songs that you mentioned from Emancipation are pretty good, especially Sex, White Mansion, Somebody, My Computer(quirky and unbelievably superfunki towards the end), and the Love We Make(super standout track musically and singing-wise). I don't get your lack of enthusiasm for those tracks.

That is all. Peace

And where are the hits you released? You never even started because I've never heard of you or any music from you. Now I understand why Prince doesn't post messages on this website or participates in chat sometimes with us!

feeluupp said:

Noodled24 said:

Prince had a huge career in the 90s. Towards the end of the decade perhaps not so much. Many of the artists who now look to Prince for inspiration - D'angelo, Alicia Keys, Timberlake etc etc missed out on the 80s.

The myth about Prince and the 80's is so played out it's unreal. He didn't score a UK #1 single till TMBGITW was released. His popularity in America may have declined in the 90's but on an international level he was still putting out top 10 singles and #1 albums.

I think people confuse their own prefered era with actual facts.

I don't think his 80's legacy was so played out, it just is what it is. These were the facts:

From 1979-1989 Prince sold over 56 million albums.

Two diamond albums, Purple Rain: 21m Batman: 11m

No way BATMAN sold 11 M, it barely sold 5 millions worldwide. And sadly BATMAN is a weak catalogue seller.

Buttox said:

I agree but do you agree that within his 90s output are lots of potentially brilliant songs that could have been made so by 80s era prince? That is my main hypothesis

You have to be careful how you word the thread title because that's often all people read - if you write something inflamatory, the borg will home in on you without mercy.

Trying to disguise another "Prince and over and done" thread by trying to elaborate on the topic is just soooo wrong, nobody's gon' get fooled!

i wouldn't say something is 'missing' but rather that prince crammed too much poop into his songs .. the entire emancipation album is ruined by stupid rapping and lyrics and space age sound effects that sound like the drummer is playing spaceship noises rather than a drum set.

I have often felt billy jack bitch could have been one of prince great tunes but the grating "bitch" yelled 297 times thruout the song makes it difficult to hear the great song burried underneath.

prince as a producer most certainly has been over and done for many years .. he can still write a couple good songs and if he doesn't muck it up too much they come out alright

prince usually completely ruins whatever songs he thinks are the singles .. guitar, musicology both fail hard .. yet u can find decent little non hit songs burried on those records

prince would do well to hand over his good ideas to some talented musicians .. too bad he is working with 3eg and their boyfriend instead

warning2all said:

He's a better musician and vocalist than ever, he's still a fine live act---but the songwriting generally isn't there. "Clouds" is at the level of "Strange Relationship"---that song wasn't the best off SOTT, but it was good. "Clouds" is just "good", but serves as the best song on AOA. AOA has no "If I Was Your Girlfriend"/"U Got The Look"/"I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man"/"Sign o The Times"/or "Housequake" level songs on it. Is he "done"? No. But best ideas have been done. We're in his " Universal James" phase now, not his "The Payback " phase.

Clouds is at the level of Strange Relationship Strange Relationship a Prince classic, musically and lyrically.

Besides that, I agree with you. Prince IS a better musician and vocalist now and he's an incredible live act, but creatively he's lacking.

Buttox said:

Noodledi was not denigrating his career in the 90s. There is lots there to enjoy. But id love to hear arguments about how his career and output in the 90s were on par with or exceeded the 80s or even contained one comparable iconic recording. To encourage responses here are three provocative points of view

1. I count 2-4 era defining albums in the 80s...none in the 90s. 2. Ask regular joes to list iconic Prince songs and the 80s list will be much larger than the 90s. 3. Without the 80s Prince would be in the same league as D'angelo or Lenny Kravitz...great artists but not iconic ones.

1) Era defining depends who you are and where you are. Prince only really had 1 huge selling record in the 80s and that was Purple Rain. Other albums sold a few million copies.

2) Again these regular Joes - depends who they are, where they are and what they listen to. The Most Beautiful Girl In the World is easily the song Prince is most recognised for in the UK. I suspect throughout europe too. Hence the reason so many UK concert reviews sound like they had no idea Prince played guitar.

3) You say without "the 80s" but really what you mean is without "Purple Rain" - This was the album that catapulted Prince into the stratosphere. If you imagine for a second that Purple Rain never happened 1999 was a pretty big album but not huge, ATWIAD sold pretty big off the back of PR - without PR you could probably half the sales. Parade wasn't huge, SOTT sold shocking numbers for such an outstanding album... not until the Batman album was he going to sell big numbers.

His first UK #1 album was Lovesexy in 1988 - only 2 years before the end of the decade. I fail to see how someone who's first #1 album didn't happen till the end of the decade can be credited with defining a decade (again I'm speaking from the point of view of someone living in the UK - I understand completely that things were very different in the USA). Batman in 89 also scored him a #1 album and he had plenty of top 10 hit singles in the UK but not so much with the albums.

Moving into the 90's Graffiti Bridge was a #1 album, D&P only managed a #2 position but spent fiftyseven weeks on the charts in a country where the charts are based on sales not airplay. In 1993 the hits 1 and the hits 2 hit the UK top five as well as the bsides triple disc also hitting the top 5 (3 hits cds in the top 5 in the same year!) and "Come" the following year - his final UK #1 album. Singles however were another story and he had a number of top 5, top 10 and top 20 singles right up until Emancipation

His popularity in the USA may have died off towards the end of the 80s but internationally he was bigger than ever.

Buttox said:

He is done.

I don't mean he is no longer a great live performer, or that once in a while he will put out a few likeable songs or an ok album.

This is for all of us who were Prince fans in the 90s and were expecting his 90s Sign of the Times or Lovesexy album meisterwerk and When Doves Cry meister single neither of which ever came.

We thought it was the Gold Experience but though it was good, it didnt transcend. We thought he was holding back because he was angry with Warners and it would all come out with Emancipation but that didnt happen. In fact he was so angry he got mad at his fans and went after them as well...so much so that this fan website cant even post a single image of him to this day.

No the truth was that Prince's ego got bigger and bigger, his relationship with reality became more complex (Jehova's Witnesses and control freakery), he refused to let anyone discipline his musical excesses and the music industry itself changed fundamentally in ways that did not jive with his changes (more reality based, more open, more collaborative and less controlling). Whereas in the 80s we had an interview with Kurt Loder with Prince driving around his neighbour hood, in the 90s we had him on Top of the Pops with a Burka and unwilling to speak.

Now before people get defensive, there was a lot of good stuff in the 90s and some in the 00s but nothing that became as classic and iconic and era defining as in the 80s. And before people say "its impossible to recreate success in one era to another " I say that some of his contemporary 80s artists fared better:

U2 had their 80s and 90s moments: Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby

Madonna was actually much better in the 90s than the 80s

Anyway, the result of all of this (and the point of this post) is that there are a large number of post 80s tracks for which you can say "There is an excellent song in there somewhere". Songs for which you could see different compositional or other musical choices would have produced absolute brilliance.

To my mind CLOUDS is just the latest in this line and it has two issues...an overlong voice over that kills the mood and a refusal to strengthen the main hook (to me it is a few notes too short)...80s Prince would have played with the hook in a cooky way that really made it work but made it hard to understand why -hence making it inspired genious. Anyway, here for debate is my first go at a list of other "What could have been" 90s songs up to and including Emancipation:

We can Funk- lots has been said about this already but I think a slower more throbbing groove and fewer computers would have helped...

Thunder - it has a lovely hook but just goes overboard without doing anything too imaginative

My name is Prince - The title and theme are an idiotic ego trip but it has a lot of potential with the catchy AAh AAh. More use of the AAh AAh as a hook, a Tony M less version and a song title change Music is King with changed lyrics ( music is king its so damn funky, I am its Prince, I am its junkie) would have nailed a hit I reckon.

Love 2 the 9s - Take out the rap and the Mayte and Tony M voice over and you're left with a lovely jazzy tune...maybe add something out there like a jazz violin coda to take it to the next level.

Blue Light, I wanna melt with you, Sweet Baby- there are catchier and weightier versions of these songs in another universe.

Come - the song feels weirdly distant but there is something there that wasnt properly captured.

Pheremone and Space - Am i the only one who thinks these were potentially massive hits? Something missing in both but not sure what.

Endorphine Machine, Dolphin - I cant put my finger on it except that the guitar is completely subdued in the album versions and both feel too computerised but they need more changes than that.

Billy Jack Bitch - replace the weak chorus and bring the fabulous horns to the main and make a chorus with a strong hook that incorporates them.

We March - replace the weak chorus and add some more creativity.

I still think a single album combinining the best of Come and Gold Experience could have been Prince's album of the decade..

Dinner with Delores - again subdued instruments and a lack of creative edge make it sound empty

Emancipation has so many of these I will just list them. If a conversation starts in the thread I might elaborate on them:

Jam of the Year, Sex in the Summer, White Mansion, Somebody's Somebody, The Holy River, Damned if I do (the latin bit at the end should have been the whole basis for the song), In this Bed I Scream, Sleep Around, My Computer, the Love We Make, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife.

Ok will stop now...lets see if anyone bites constructively!

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

[Edited 11/16/14 8:33am]

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Okay, so since I think "Clouds" is a really good/solid song and I think that AOA and PlecElec are good/solid albums (B+), does that mean that Prince is not done? It seems that I like so much of what you don't like, so does my opinion or taste cancel or make void your opinion or taste? The problem for me is not that you don't like much of Prince's recent output but that you are asserting that your particular dislike of his recent output makes it subpar. It's one thing to say, I'm not feeling Prince or I don't like what Prince is doing. I just don't understand this ongoing need for folks who don't like what Prince is/has been doing for whatever time period to justify their dislike of something by convincing others that they shouldn't like it. Why not just say: I don't like Prince's recent output and here's the reason that I don't like Prince's recent output? That would be more constructive and invite more constructive discussion rather than another "Here's why Prince has lost it" thread.

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Now, I'll give you credit for attempting to have a discourse about why you think Prince's recent output is subpar, but what you say about Madonna is just subjective. For my tastes, since the 80s Madonna has been a embarrassing cliche, and, while U2 has had success, they have not equaled or topped their 80s success so, again, all subjective. And, I'm not saying that anything is wrong with subjective, but so many people who dislike Prince's recent output try to couch their subjective as somehow more authentic than someone else's subjective. Furthermore, there is nothing about "We March" or "Billy Jack Bitch" that I would change, and I don't begrudge your taste or feelings about them; I just recognize different taste. "Billy Jack Bitch" is funky as hell, and "We March" so correctly captures a social/cultural moment, especially as it relates to the Million Man March. So, again, I wouldn't change a thing.

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I will agree that Prince hurt his popularity and sales because he wouldn't play the game how the industry wanted him to play the game. But, to be discussing that in 2014 is to act like we didn't have enough evidence of this twenty years ago. So, when people discuss Prince not promoting something properly, it is like they are not recognizing that he has rarely promoted anything properly. A few times he has, but most times he hasn't. And since we all know that dude is batshit crazy, it's senseless to wonder why or what's up with that. I just take what I like, ignore what I don't like, and enjoy that after all these years he still moves me more than anyone else. And, once he stops moving me, I hope that I don't spend x number of years on this site or anywhere else bemoaning that fact.

Buttox said:

He is done.

Says more about you than you would like to admit.

P needs a manager and a CONtract to go with that person.

There is still time to reach unimaginable heights.