Emancipation wasnt one of the best efforts by Prince but

still everytime Prince wants to go mainstream he models his production similar to Emancipation era songs.

AOA and 3121 are just some of the examples.

Do you think Prince thinks Emancipation is a great production or what?

Emancipation is one of 's greatest accomplishments as far as I'm concerned. It's true that the "Kirky J." sound has been maintained quite consistently ever since, to the point that it may have become more the "Prince "trademark sound that his classic MPLS sound.

the production on emancipation is one of the main reasons I cannot listen to that record .. same with 3121 .. its like the phantom menace those records .. just every sink and whistle thrown in for no good reason .. emancipation has a few decent songs on it that arent ruined by rapping, but the production still kills the whole record dead for me ..

its that big fat spaceship sounding production .. everything sounds like star trek doors slamming shut or wizzing by .. similar problem with 3121 .. he was definitely going for that typical radio rnb sound on these records .. i guess some people like that

aoa sounds different to me than emancipation .. better in many ways

Sure, it's the sound he's been going back each time he's attempted to do something more commercial. Just about any song on 3121 could have been on Emancipation too.

I think Prince stated that he gave Kirk Johnson the production credit because he just did a lot of the drum programming on the album. It was discussed in one of the interviews at the time (I think Musician magazine?)

I love the Emancipation production sound.... it is fantastic

databank said:

Okay, I did an experiment. I picked 6 random songs from Emancipation and 6 random songs from 3121 (using random.org) and put them together as an imaginary album.

Slave
Love
Sex In The Summer
Black Sweat
Style
The Dance
My Computer
Fury
Get Yo Groove On
3121
One Kiss At A Time
Te Amo Corazon

They fit together remarkably well, right? The tracks are pretty much in the order they came up, I just swapped the places of "Love" and "Te Amo Corazon", because the latter would feel a bit strange right after "Slave".

As 3 discs, it's ultimately succumbed to the typical Prince over indulgence of too much filler music.

If it was trimmed to 1 disk with the good songs on it, Emancipation would've been his greatest album of the 90's...

controversy99 said:

databank said:

Emancipation is one of 's greatest accomplishments as far as I'm concerned. It's true that the "Kirky J." sound has been maintained quite consistently ever since, to the point that it may have become more the "Prince "trademark sound that his classic MPLS sound.

This is insane ... no offense, but Ema is in no way a trademark P sound.

What I mean is that it's been released 18 years ago and ever since, up to the last album, has been doing variations on the "plastic sound" production approach that was inaugurated with Emancipation. Even though he's also revisited his original Linn/MPLS sound and explored other territories over those years, I think in the end he's been using the "plastic" sound more often and more proeminently. So if you take his now 36 years of career globally, it means that overall the plastic sound has been used more often than his original trademark sound, and admitting still has a good 20 or 30 years of career ahead of him, and that he may keep using the plastic sound a lot, then the plastic production approach will end-up as being if not the prime, at least a second "Prince trademark sound".

I think many people have a vision of 's career as if 1978-1988 represent 75% of his work and 1989-to the day of his death as the remaining 25%. While 's role in the history of pop music has been extremely significant during the first 10 years and will be remembered as such, in the end he's going to leave a legacy that's waaaaay larger than that, and his "non classic" years will represent a much longer era of musical production than his classic years. I'm quite sure future music historians will be more inclined to acknowledge this fact (if only because they won't have been there to have a personal, first hand listener relationship with the excitment of the first decade), and in the end the plastic sound production may represent the most definitive sound, the one he adopted when he was 36 and never let go after that, while his ventures into typical MPLS sound will have been way more occasional after 1987.

We may disagree on this, but in the end is an artist's trademark sound the one that had the most impact on other acts or the one he'll have used the most over the course of his career? Open debate if u ask me

Emancipation was, is and always will be a disaster.

Militant said:

I love the Emancipation production sound.... it is fantastic

Thanks for the common sense

novabrkr said:

I think Prince stated that he gave Kirk Johnson the production credit because he just did a lot of the drum programming on the album. It was discussed in one of the interviews at the time (I think Musician magazine?)

This rings true to me. He used a guy named Statik http://prince.org/msg/7/383738 as drum programmer on at least TMBGITW and Space and his relationship with Prince seems to have been one of 'You (Statik) make drum loops and I (Prince) will choose and use which ones I like'.

Or, just maybe Kirky J has been the secret production mastermind behind most of Prince's music ever since c 1995 .

It's nicely produced. Nicely produced doesn't necessarily translate to a great listening experience, though. In fact, it can really suck the life out of an album.

databank said:

controversy99 said:

databank said: This is insane ... no offense, but Ema is in no way a trademark P sound.

What I mean is that it's been released 18 years ago and ever since, up to the last album, has been doing variations on the "plastic sound" production approach that was inaugurated with Emancipation. Even though he's also revisited his original Linn/MPLS sound and explored other territories over those years, I think in the end he's been using the "plastic" sound more often and more proeminently. So if you take his now 36 years of career globally, it means that overall the plastic sound has been used more often than his original trademark sound, and admitting still has a good 20 or 30 years of career ahead of him, and that he may keep using the plastic sound a lot, then the plastic production approach will end-up as being if not the prime, at least a second "Prince trademark sound".

I think many people have a vision of 's career as if 1978-1988 represent 75% of his work and 1989-to the day of his death as the remaining 25%. While 's role in the history of pop music has been extremely significant during the first 10 years and will be remembered as such, in the end he's going to leave a legacy that's waaaaay larger than that, and his "non classic" years will represent a much longer era of musical production than his classic years. I'm quite sure future music historians will be more inclined to acknowledge this fact (if only because they won't have been there to have a personal, first hand listener relationship with the excitment of the first decade), and in the end the plastic sound production may represent the most definitive sound, the one he adopted when he was 36 and never let go after that, while his ventures into typical MPLS sound will have been way more occasional after 1987.

We may disagree on this, but in the end is an artist's trademark sound the one that had the most impact on other acts or the one he'll have used the most over the course of his career? Open debate if u ask me

I've been saying that for years: Prince has put out so much bad music that it now eclipses his best work.

databank said:

Emancipation is one of 's greatest accomplishments as far as I'm concerned. It's true that the "Kirky J." sound has been maintained quite consistently ever since, to the point that it may have become more the "Prince "trademark sound that his classic MPLS sound.

I couldnt agree more. I always stand by Emancipation as a masterful Prince work - something that only he could have done. Joshua is the new Kirk Johnson but I hope that he ends up where ever Tamar is.

Emancipation is a mixed bag.There are some truly great songs on the album,and there are some mediocre tracks,as well.My favorite song has always been "Emale".I love the dark,hypnotic mood of that song.

SoulAlive said:

Emancipation is a mixed bag.There are some truly great songs on the album,and there are some mediocre tracks,as well.My favorite song has always been "Emale".I love the dark,hypnotic mood of that song.

Emancipation just suffers from production choices. Imagine the songs produced like it was Sign O' The Times. Under rated album by far.

JoshuaWho said:

databank said:

Emancipation is one of 's greatest accomplishments as far as I'm concerned. It's true that the "Kirky J." sound has been maintained quite consistently ever since, to the point that it may have become more the "Prince "trademark sound that his classic MPLS sound.

I couldnt agree more. I always stand by Emancipation as a masterful Prince work - something that only he could have done.

.

Oh please. Emancipation = Prince going for the R Kelly market and failing miserably. You could pick up copies of Emancipation for €1 for years.

I think the term "trademark" suggests that you bring something new and unique, never heard before that is in fact 'your' sound. While Prince may have adopted a generic rnb from the future sound for these records, it is by no means a "prince trademark sound". It sounds more like prince trying on someone elses widely used generic sound. The fact that he has used this 'plastic' sound for such a long period does not in turn, define itself as a 'prince' sound. The prince sound is the sound prince defined and was copied by others, not the other way around. So it makes sense to say that prince adopted a generic widely used style for much of his years as producer. It does not make sense to me to state that a generic sound is now considered the "prince" sound. The prince sound is Prince thru maybe batman ... dnp had a more generic pop radio of the times sound .. prince did not redefine much from dnp on .. I wouldn't consider anything past dnp to be the "prince sound".

[Edited 10/26/14 14:49pm]

TrevorAyer said:

Emancipation is too much plastic and saccharine,

A lot of great songs, but the production sucks...

TrevorAyer said:

I think the term "trademark" suggests that you bring something new and unique, never heard before that is in fact 'your' sound. While Prince may have adopted a generic rnb from the future sound for these records, it is by no means a "prince trademark sound". It sounds more like prince trying on someone elses widely used generic sound. The fact that he has used this 'plastic' sound for such a long period does not in turn, define itself as a 'prince' sound. The prince sound is the sound prince defined and was copied by others, not the other way around. So it makes sense to say that prince adopted a generic widely used style for much of his years as producer. It does not make sense to me to state that a generic sound is now considered the "prince" sound. The prince sound is Prince thru maybe batman ... dnp had a more generic pop radio of the times sound .. prince did not redefine much from dnp on .. I wouldn't consider anything past dnp to be the "prince sound".

[Edited 10/26/14 14:49pm]

I totally c ur point here but on the other hand even though he took elements from mid-90's R&B he really made his, I mean no one ever sounded THAT plastic if u ask me, and the way those "plastic" drum programming interact with melodies and harmonies, with 's vocals for one thing, as well as his typical guitar/bass rythm signature and even horns (particularly MBN's horn arragements), make it quite unique in my book. One can dislike it but in the end the plastic sound is a thing: he borrowed the basic elements but like most everything he borrows, he made it his own.

thedance said:

Emancipation is too much plastic and saccharine,

A lot of great songs, but the production sucks...

.

This point of view is one of the org standards nowadays, of course, but I still think that it is questionable.

.

First of all, what people refer to here as "production" obviously is the arrangement of the songs. Folks would have preferred a more band-oriented sound rather than the Prince-alone-in-the-studio R'n'B-pop they got on the album.

.

However, the arrangement of songs obvoiusly corresponds with the vibe or feeling that the artist wants to communicate with it. Emancipation is a celebration of freedom, love and happiness, and as such, the songs that Prince has written for the album simply would not have worked with the sound of songs such as "Days of wild" or "Interactive", which were much more inspired by the I'm-the-rebel-fighting-my-record-label vibe of the Gold era.

.

To make a long story short: Emancipation is brilliant as it is, and I personally would only name very few songs which really could have been improved by a band-oriented arrangement - primarily "Face Down" and "Da Da Da" (which I consider to be the weakest track of the set btw).

One more thing...

.

Why is "Emacipation" often referred to in terms of platic production and going for the trends in mid-90s R'n'B, but "Come" gets a pass?

.

"Come" has an electronic sound to it with many beats reflecting the typical mid-90s Montell Jordan-type R'n'B. Hey, "Letitgo" has "I want to sound current" written all over it...

.

I don't want to state that "Come" is a bad album, it is just an indication that the whole "TGE era vs. Emancipation era" thing simply doesn't fully work...

^ I agree Emancipation only suffers from being a 3CD set.

There is nothing wrong with the production in terms of the songs themselves (for the most part). It was the length of the set and everything being overproduced and songs polished to within an inch of their lives. When you compare Somebodys Somebody on the album to the live studio version this becomes clear.

Songs like We gets up and Courtin' Time suffer because the horns have no punch. Songs like Soul Sanctuary benefit from the glossy sound.

He took a clear RnB turn with Emancipation while it's not exclusively an RnB album. He also took a step away from being the rudeboy dressing it up as sensuality for the most part.

Noodled24 said:

^ I agree Emancipation only suffers from being a 3CD set.

.

I just don't get this.

.

If you dig an artist, you normally want him to release as much music as possible. You're normally also interested in B-sides and rarities that the average listener would give a flying fuck about.

.

Granted, this material will then also contain some weak stuff that was rightfully edited out. But at least it is up to you then to decide what you (the fan) want to listen to and what you want to ignore.

.

No one is forced to listen to "Emancipation" for 180 min in a row. You can actually stop in between if it's too much stuff for you to digest or if you get tired from its sound.

.

We've had tons of "edit 'Emancipation' to one disc" threads around here, and there probably have not been two identical configurations for a 12-track best-of version of "Emancipation" on the history of this website. It's up to every listener what they like and what they want to skip.