Reading some posts here, you'd think the musical press would be holding its collective nose listening to Prince in concert and on record, since his band is rated as mediocre by many here and numerous Orgers of note have been voicing their disdain for most recent songs.

You'll find plenty of professional reviewers lamenting his artistic decline over the years, but I have not seen too many negative comments in the last three to four years concerning his output with 3EG or new solo songs or the concerts. Even if you exclude the often laudatory concert reviews, Prince's press has been good in terms of his new songs as far as I can tell. I'm sure a professional reviewer got on his case real hard somewhere in the world, but I haven't seen a consensus that's his offering utter garbage or anything like that.

Do the critics still love him in NY? Or is it that we Orgers are "specialists" and more demanding?

he still makes great songs. especially wen he is true to himself. i dont really care about his 1st record but after that, he ran with it. times change and so did he. i believe he wasted alot of time after the 80s. its like the movie says, wen u laff, the world laffs with u. but wen u cry, u cry alone.

In my opinion, his live shows get over-hyped and over-loved no matter how the quality of the show is. Most reviews have very little to do with the actual show. They write about his past success and failure, they write about his hair, they write about how excited they were, and maybe dabble a little in the setlist.

Now for the actual studio albums, I feel the reviews that actually focus on the music are a bit harsh. They also dabble in off point tangents about Purple Rain, 1999, SOTT, and hardly enough on what the new music really is.

It just seems to be an industry standard that his live shows are awesome no matter what, and the new albums are mediocre no matter what.

I think the truth is a little bit of a reversal of that. I love most of his studio work no matter what the year. I will concede that post 1990 he is not what he once was, but the Lotus Flow3r disc of that 3 cd set is incredible, yet people who can't listen to new Prince music will hark on about how terrible it is, yet how great he is live.

Prince Live is really inconsistent for me. Lovesexy tour and before, no big complaints, only minor nit picking. 2002 and 2004 were probably his best post 1990 tours...and since 2007, it's been hit or miss..the 3rd Eye Girl shows are really good, but when the NPG shows up, Prince seems to play shorter shows and tends to sing less and less and rely on medleys and shortened songs. "Controversy" for example, is no longer the great version from 2004, but Prince now does his trademark scream over and over and over and skips most of the lyrics...

I went to the Essence Festival...and it was pretty standard. I was excited and happy to be there, but it paled in comparison to some of the UK 3rd Eye Girl shows.

stillwaiting said:

In my opinion, his live shows get over-hyped and over-loved no matter how the quality of the show is. Most reviews have very little to do with the actual show. They write about his past success and failure, they write about his hair, they write about how excited they were, and maybe dabble a little in the setlist.

Now for the actual studio albums, I feel the reviews that actually focus on the music are a bit harsh. They also dabble in off point tangents about Purple Rain, 1999, SOTT, and hardly enough on what the new music really is.

It just seems to be an industry standard that his live shows are awesome no matter what, and the new albums are mediocre no matter what.

I think the truth is a little bit of a reversal of that. I love most of his studio work no matter what the year. I will concede that post 1990 he is not what he once was, but the Lotus Flow3r disc of that 3 cd set is incredible, yet people who can't listen to new Prince music will hark on about how terrible it is, yet how great he is live.

Prince Live is really inconsistent for me. Lovesexy tour and before, no big complaints, only minor nit picking. 2002 and 2004 were probably his best post 1990 tours...and since 2007, it's been hit or miss..the 3rd Eye Girl shows are really good, but when the NPG shows up, Prince seems to play shorter shows and tends to sing less and less and rely on medleys and shortened songs. "Controversy" for example, is no longer the great version from 2004, but Prince now does his trademark scream over and over and over and skips most of the lyrics...

I went to the Essence Festival...and it was pretty standard. I was excited and happy to be there, but it paled in comparison to some of the UK 3rd Eye Girl shows.

Interesting angle on the reception, concerts vs records. I've seen him get bad reviews for his concerts before but not too recently. It sounds like you have seen Prince live often, perhaps you fit the "specialist" label in terms of how you compare to a professional reviewer seeing three dozen acts year in year out -- perhaps for them, most Prince concerts compare so favorably to what they see on other nights that they don't have the same experience as a long time Prince concertgoer.

I was studying flute with an acclaimed flute player when I happened to mention I recently heard another much more famous flute player at one of his recitals. I explained how impressed I was and he did not think he played well. I protested that the critics had only high praise, but he turned around and said very seriously: "We flute players are specialists, we have a finer ear than the critics".

Aerogram said:

Interesting angle on the reception, concerts vs records. I've seen him get bad reviews for his concerts before but not too recently. It sounds like you have seen Prince live often, perhaps you fit the "specialist" label in terms of how you compare to a professional reviewer seeing three dozen acts year in year out -- perhaps for them, most Prince concerts compare so favorably to what they see on other nights that they don't have the same experience as a long time Prince concertgoer.

I was studying flute with an acclaimed flute player when I happened to mention I recently heard another much more famous flute player at one of his recitals. I explained how impressed I was and he did not think he played well. I protested that the critics had only high praise, but he turned around and said very seriously: "We flute players are specialists, we have a finer ear than the critics".

I just think most professional reviewers don't really do the work. I probably should have been a critic. I was a journalism major who just got pissed and quit, and am a songwriter, terrible piano player, and even worse singer. That doesn't make me any more qualified than Joe Blow, but I probably do have a little bit of a false sense of entitlement.

I've seen Prince 45 times, and the quality of the show usually depended on what tour it was. For 1997-2001 he was in medley mode, with a lower quality band...those shows I can only say I was there because I love him, and were by far the weakest shows I've seen.

I also have listened to around 400 or more shows on bootleg recordings...so I've heard a lot of his shows. I probably have been to over 200 concerts in my life...so I have a large spectrum of shows to compare Prince too. On Prince's best nights...NOBODY can touch him. On a bad night, U2 blow him away despite being weaker musicians ...again in my opinion.

[Edited 8/29/14 16:23pm]

Or is it that we Orgers are "specialists" and more demanding?

Heh heh, that would be one way to put it.

I write record reviews but I haven't bothered to cover any of the recent online releases, been waiting for the proper LPs to drop. You will see a lot more reviews once that happens, and we'll see how folks react.

stillwaiting said:

Aerogram said:

Interesting angle on the reception, concerts vs records. I've seen him get bad reviews for his concerts before but not too recently. It sounds like you have seen Prince live often, perhaps you fit the "specialist" label in terms of how you compare to a professional reviewer seeing three dozen acts year in year out -- perhaps for them, most Prince concerts compare so favorably to what they see on other nights that they don't have the same experience as a long time Prince concertgoer.

I was studying flute with an acclaimed flute player when I happened to mention I recently heard another much more famous flute player at one of his recitals. I explained how impressed I was and he did not think he played well. I protested that the critics had only high praise, but he turned around and said very seriously: "We flute players are specialists, we have a finer ear than the critics".

I just think most professional reviewers don't really do the work. I probably should have been a critic. I was a journalism major who just got pissed and quit, and am a songwriter, terrible piano player, and even worse singer. That doesn't make me any more qualified than Joe Blow, but I probably do have a little bit of a false sense of entitlement.

I've seen Prince 45 times, and the quality of the show usually depended on what tour it was. For 1997-2001 he was in medley mode, with a lower quality band...those shows I can only say I was there because I love him, and were by far the weakest shows I've seen.

I also have listened to around 400 or more shows on bootleg recordings...so I've heard a lot of his shows. I probably have been to over 200 concerts in my life...so I have a large spectrum of shows to compare Prince too. On Prince's best nights...NOBODY can touch him. On a bad night, U2 blow him away despite being weaker musicians ...again in my opinion.

[Edited 8/29/14 16:23pm]

You obviously have done your homework many times over and you mention boots as well so it's fair to say you are reasonably spoiled compared to the rest of us.

stillwaiting said:

Aerogram said:

Interesting angle on the reception, concerts vs records. I've seen him get bad reviews for his concerts before but not too recently. It sounds like you have seen Prince live often, perhaps you fit the "specialist" label in terms of how you compare to a professional reviewer seeing three dozen acts year in year out -- perhaps for them, most Prince concerts compare so favorably to what they see on other nights that they don't have the same experience as a long time Prince concertgoer.

I was studying flute with an acclaimed flute player when I happened to mention I recently heard another much more famous flute player at one of his recitals. I explained how impressed I was and he did not think he played well. I protested that the critics had only high praise, but he turned around and said very seriously: "We flute players are specialists, we have a finer ear than the critics".

I just think most professional reviewers don't really do the work.

[Edited 8/29/14 16:23pm]

I really agree with this... most reviews are not really that. Most reviews I see end up sounding like recycled press releases or promotional materials... music journalism (like so much of journalism) is more concerned with getting content out on time (first) to get the most page views.

Those journalists who do give a shit--many of them have a soft spot for Prince or want continued access. Take for example Jon Bream... he was invited last minute to Paisley Park to hear the new 3EG stuff, and if you read his account he is very careful about what he is saying about the music. He offers very generic comments. Later when Bream did a radio interview, he said something to the effect of withholding negative criticism until he's had a chance to really take in the sounds and the equivalent of "if you dont have something nice to say." Most of the the journalists who have had a chance to preview the albums write more about the experience of being at Paisley Park than anything else. Prince is smart--he knows how to use his mystique to his advantage.

Having seen two 3EG shows, I think they are very skilled players, but as performers they don't have much stage presence. Donna can shred the guitar but her theatrics while doing so seem contrived, and not organic (not in the way Prince often seems like the guitar is a physical extension of his body). And Prince has relied not just on NPG but also 3EG more and more. I cut him some slack because he's doing a lot of heavy lifting... He is 56 years old and no matter what he says about time and age being "art official," dude's energy ain't the same. These days with both bands--with SOME rare exception--he is more bandmaster than player/performer; more orchestral conductor than anything else.

At the Essence festival, if the reports are correct, he picked up his guitar only twice throughout the whole show?

So by and large, the critics tend to overrate live shows due to Prince's status and legend and their own professional vacuity.

Does that mean that Prince's reputation for recording underwhelming music also precedes him and condition any reaction he gets? Just like Prince tends to get great reviews for his live shows, he also tends to get tepid ones for his new music. I've ready many reviews where it was obvious the reviewer had not spent much time listening. At least in concerts, this is less likely.

I've been to great shows and not so great ones but the next day he always got rave review. I tended to chalk it up to the fact I've heard many of his live shows (in person or on record). I knew the guitar solo in Shhhh... was way better in four years before and they didn't but they found the guitar just smashing anyway so who's right and who's wrong?

One thing is for sure: his place in music won't be determined by us, hardcore longtime fans. I considered becoming a musicologist when I was younger and I know the history of some famous names, how they were forgotten, how much they wrote, etc. and for the pop musicologists out there Prince is going to be one incredible collection years from now. It already is, but taking into account the outtakes and the protégés, he will be hard to beat as a single individual composing/recording in the late 20th century, to this day and probably for many years still.

I remember what a beating he received for ATWIAD and Parade -- those were the days!

I have no idea where you're getting this "The critics don't like Prince's recent concerts" idea. That's certainly not borne out in the numerous published articles and reviews posted in each concert thread.

And the only crybabies I hear on the org are people that DIDN'T go to the concerts. They cry about "the same old setlist" and yet those orgers who ACTUALLY WENT to the shows almost unanimously rave about them.

RodeoSchro said:

And the only crybabies I hear on the org are people that DIDN'T go to the concerts. They cry about "the same old setlist" and yet those orgers who ACTUALLY WENT to the shows almost unanimously rave about them.

This is so true.