glamstar01 said:

Agreed, there are only two (subjective) types of music: good music and bad music. Prince's "real music by real musicians" has annoyed me from Day One. I don't want to hear real music (whatever the fuck that may be), I am only interested in good music. I don't care if a electronic producer made it on his computer in his bedroom, or a band that records with traditional 'real' instruments.

It's no big deal if he does. Why is it supposed to be annoying or upsetting? When he performed at the Billboard Music Awards, it was clear he was one of the few acts that did not lip synch on that stage -- and Let's Go Crazy Reloaded/Fixurlifeup sounded like the best statement to make in the "Art Official Age".

I swear that since audiences started to tolerate lip synching at live shows, we've seen less and less quality on the charts. I know the charts and quality were never synonymous but you could count on some solid acts and now.... Back in 1984, it would have been nearly impossible to take Appolonia 6 on tour due to Apple's non existent singing voice, but today if he wanted and accepted all the assistive singing technology, he could. So today we do have acts that are wildly popular but it's their image and production that are popular. Singing chops and musicianship, especially live but also on record, are not as valued.

Is it good for music as a whole that no one bats an eyelid while this continues and worsens? Sure, there are plenty of great musicians out there, but "art official" acts with backing vocal tracks, uncredited singers, etc. are now accepted whereas in the past Milli Vanili caused a huge stir. We're collectively giving up on what concerts are supposed to be and talent is supposed to mean.

So I repeat -- what's so upsetting about Prince emphasizing that what he plays is what you get? What other philosophy should one of the greatest musicians of all time promote in this day and age? If it's about the fact he's been staying with this message for too long, that might have to do with the fact the practices he's against have only become more accepted.

Let's go back to finding fault with the cover art of his albums if we must absolutely be pissed off about something he did or did not do today, yesterday or last week.

[Edited 8/28/14 16:26pm]

@Aerogram

couldn't have said it better myself...

If that is a real person and not a ghost or alien making the music then it's real music too me

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I got what Prince is probably trying to say. But let it rest. Just do your music that is honestly you.

I mean if the purpose of music and what it's supposed to do meets the need, then I'm not bothered. I even have 'guilty pop' songs that I probably would never admit makes me feel good...

Ok here is one 'Sometimes I Run' by Britney Spears. It just feels good, and I would listen to that before listening to Pussy Control -which grates on my brain.

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Music, pop music accompanies us thru live, in every aspect. Certain music is meant for dance clubs/parties for people to dance, get hi(not drugs) etc Certain music helps you to feel certain things, many voices out there, many sounds to reach whomever.

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Most of the time, there are real musicians, skilled musicians behind a 'pop princess'

glamstar01 said:

@Aerogram

couldn't have said it better myself...

I believe you.

You know the old timers all said the same shit about Prince when he started using drum machines. Technophobes are tits.

Yes, it's gone too far and for far too long because honestly, it seems like nothing more than lip service coming from him now-a-days because the "real" music he's making does not stand on it's own and speaks for itself, like the real music he was doing in the '80s. In 30 years, will anyone remember PlectrumElectrum for any reason other than the fact that it rhymes entirely too easily with the word rectum?

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality and musicianship. It's just a way of rallying the fanbase, which Prince is good at doing. The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force. The call for "real music" is just a method of uniting the fanbase with something that we would all agree with.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Yes, it's gone too far and for far too long because honestly, it seems like nothing more than lip service coming from him now-a-days because the "real" music he's making does not stand on it's own and speaks for itself, like the real music he was doing in the '80s. In 30 years, will anyone remember PlectrumElectrum for any reason other than the fact that it rhymes entirely too easily with the word rectum?

you clairvoyant now..instead of worrying about him worry about whether anyone loves or remembers you in 30 years

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality and musicianship. It's just a way of rallying the fanbase, which Prince is good at doing. The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force. The call for "real music" is just a method of uniting the fanbase with something that we would all agree with.

thank you,,wayyyyy tooo much over analyzing the "real music thing"

steakfinger said:

You know the old timers all said the same shit about Prince when he started using drum machines. Technophobes are tits.

Exactly! Studio musicians, arrangers and producers of the '80s coould have used that mantra when describing his records and the records he produced for The Time, Sheila E, Sheena Easton and others. Synthesizers and drum programming the aces that Prince used brilliantly to his advantage could be dismissed because those are musical software technologies simulating the timbres and functions of horn, reed and percussion instruments. Maybe as a touring musician and live performer "real music by real musicians" hold water, but when his recent output has been versions of what's on the chart, it's time to let it go.

In your book, just because Prince is a major artist, he wouldn't be allowed to have pet hates or hobby-horses?

lwr001 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Yes, it's gone too far and for far too long because honestly, it seems like nothing more than lip service coming from him now-a-days because the "real" music he's making does not stand on it's own and speaks for itself, like the real music he was doing in the '80s. In 30 years, will anyone remember PlectrumElectrum for any reason other than the fact that it rhymes entirely too easily with the word rectum?

you clairvoyant now..instead of worrying about him worry about whether anyone loves or remembers you in 30 years

I didn't say him, I said PlectrumElectrum. Instead of worrying about him, maybe you should worry about your eyesight.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

lwr001 said:

you clairvoyant now..instead of worrying about him worry about whether anyone loves or remembers you in 30 years

I didn't say him, I said PlectrumElectrum. Instead of worrying about him, maybe you should worry about your eyesight.

I know what you said,,PLectrum is him

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality and musicianship. It's just a way of rallying the fanbase, which Prince is good at doing. The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force. The call for "real music" is just a method of uniting the fanbase with something that we would all agree with.

My problem with it is that it sounds a lot like dismissing electronic music as not being "real", which is as ridiculous indeed as jazzmen dismissing pop/rock/funk or classical musicians dismissing everything else. No matter the tools, as long as there's a human being behind a creative musical creation it's "real". I find 's views on that particular matter particularly conservative and nonsensical, since he himself doesn't make "real" music by some other people's standards (my father, for example).

KingSausage said:

I think Prince focuses way too much on the "real music" thing. For years now he's been bragging about how he creates real music and the radio doesn't play real music and nobody else makes real music blah blah blah. This attitude even crops up a lot here on the Org and in the comments of Prince fans elsewhere (check out the iTunes reviews of AOA). The real music thing needs to stop. There are plenty of artists making real music. Bilal, the Antlers, Trampled by Turtles, Queens of the Stone Age, Ryan Adams, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, etc, etc. Many genres, many artists making real music. To focus so much on real music vs. music that is not real (i.e. whatever top 40 garbage the kids listen to these days) is a waste of time. Frankly, Prince should be above this. Why is he worried about competing with garbage music? Play in the big leagues, Prince. Quit aiming down. Nobody thinks your music isn't real. Stop worrying about talking about how real it is, and start worrying about making music good enough to honor your legacy.

I agree.This is one reason why I don't like his interviews these days.He spends way too much time whining,complaining and bitching about what others are doing.Why does he even care? Do your thing,show us how "real" your music is,and don't focus on what other artists are doing (or not doing).Plus,as you pointed out,there are plenty of artists and bands who are making "real music".

Furthermore,just because someone is making "real" music,doesn't mean that it's always good.I'm just sayin'

databank said:

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality and musicianship. It's just a way of rallying the fanbase, which Prince is good at doing. The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force. The call for "real music" is just a method of uniting the fanbase with something that we would all agree with.

My problem with it is that it sounds a lot like dismissing electronic music as not being "real", which is as ridiculous indeed as jazzmen dismissing pop/rock/funk or classical musicians dismissing everything else. No matter the tools, as long as there's a human being behind a creative musical creation it's "real". I find 's views on that particular matter particularly conservative and nonsensical, since he himself doesn't make "real" music by some other people's standards (my father, for example).

Completely agree with you! Prince helped popularize the use of drummachines and synthesizers, and still relies on programmed beats today. So please cut the crap and just make good music, it doesn't matter what instruments are used.

databank said:

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality and musicianship. It's just a way of rallying the fanbase, which Prince is good at doing. The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force. The call for "real music" is just a method of uniting the fanbase with something that we would all agree with.

My problem with it is that it sounds a lot like dismissing electronic music as not being "real", which is as ridiculous indeed as jazzmen dismissing pop/rock/funk or classical musicians dismissing everything else. No matter the tools, as long as there's a human being behind a creative musical creation it's "real". I find 's views on that particular matter particularly conservative and nonsensical, since he himself doesn't make "real" music by some other people's standards (my father, for example).

I agree.

Every time I hear Prince say 'real music' or 'or real musician's' or when he starts boasting that he has 'so many hits' it makes me cringe. He's lost the edge he had when he would just pick up a guitar and rock the house like no other. Seems after he lost his success on the charts he ended up saying 'hey look at me, a real musician' instead of letting the sold out live shows and positive reviews do the talking for him.

As much as Prince has always had a vision of the future of the industry he hasn't been able to accept the things that will never change. There are tens of millions of people that go to concerts just to be there and they don't care if Britney sings live or lip syncs. Prince, on his best night, will never satify those people. When Prince says 'real music' I wonder who he's addressing and frankly it's insulting because those that know Prince already know how great he has been and can be.

Prince, stop talking and just sing!

EroticDreamer said:

databank said:

My problem with it is that it sounds a lot like dismissing electronic music as not being "real", which is as ridiculous indeed as jazzmen dismissing pop/rock/funk or classical musicians dismissing everything else. No matter the tools, as long as there's a human being behind a creative musical creation it's "real". I find 's views on that particular matter particularly conservative and nonsensical, since he himself doesn't make "real" music by some other people's standards (my father, for example).

I agree.

Every time I hear Prince say 'real music' or 'or real musician's' or when he starts boasting that he has 'so many hits' it makes me cringe. He's lost the edge he had when he would just pick up a guitar and rock the house like no other. Seems after he lost his success on the charts he ended up saying 'hey look at me, a real musician' instead of letting the sold out live shows and positive reviews do the talking for him.

As much as Prince has always had a vision of the future of the industry he hasn't been able to accept the things that will never change. There are tens of millions of people that go to concerts just to be there and they don't care if Britney sings live or lip syncs. Prince, on his best night, will never satify those people. When Prince says 'real music' I wonder who he's addressing and frankly it's insulting because those that know Prince already know how great he has been and can be.

Prince, stop talking and just sing!

Prince never excluded electronic music from musicianship. Real music can evidently be programmed as he himself proved starting with Private Joy. He has a problem with electronic processes being used to mask a complete lack of musical talent or education.

It's like math, you can do impressive things with a calculator or on a blackboard -- if you have the talent, it will be equally valid whether you did it long hand or on a calculator. But if calculators are being used during arythmetics, what's the use of teaching how to count and multiply?

[Edited 8/28/14 16:23pm]

KingSausage said:

I think Prince focuses way too much on the "real music" thing. For years now he's been bragging about how he creates real music and the radio doesn't play real music and nobody else makes real music blah blah blah. This attitude even crops up a lot here on the Org and in the comments of Prince fans elsewhere (check out the iTunes reviews of AOA). The real music thing needs to stop. There are plenty of artists making real music. Bilal, the Antlers, Trampled by Turtles, Queens of the Stone Age, Ryan Adams, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, etc, etc. Many genres, many artists making real music. To focus so much on real music vs. music that is not real (i.e. whatever top 40 garbage the kids listen to these days) is a waste of time. Frankly, Prince should be above this. Why is he worried about competing with garbage music? Play in the big leagues, Prince. Quit aiming down. Nobody thinks your music isn't real. Stop worrying about talking about how real it is, and start worrying about making music good enough to honor your legacy. [Edited 8/28/14 3:03am]

You must have forgotten this is Prince. Prince used to create trends, now he follows them. He follows them to well beyond overkill. He also will do things over and over and over again.

1. "Real Music by Real Musicians." I remember my first 1997 show, he said it wasn't Memorex, and he either said this or something similar at the next 35 or so shows I went to.

2. "Fan is short for fanatic." He said this for at least 3-5 years if not more.

3. That Snap your fingers what does it sound like joke. He did that at my first 1985 show, and was doing that at least through 1988.

4. "I'll Take You There." Just go to any aftershow recording from just about any era through at least 1998. Whatever female singer he had, they would sing this.

5. "I've Got Too Many Hits," or "Too Many Hits, So Little Time."

6. Singing Funky"Alabama, Colorado, insert other state or country name here." Prince will likely never be guilty of forgetting where his show is. He doesn't do this every show, but one listen to the 2013 3EG shows in Denver, he must have sang "Funky Colorado" at least 50 times.

7. "Put Your Hands Up." Don't Get Me Started. Actually, I have to give Prince some credit. His very talented background singer, Shelby J was required to shout this at the top of her lungs for nearly 50-100 times a night from 2010-2014. Shockingly, at the Essence Festival, I did not hear her shout it even once. Perhaps this act of self-parody is a thing of the past.

KingSausage said:

Aerogram said:

Is it good for music as a whole that no one bats an eyelid while this continues and worsens? Sure, there are plenty of great musicians out there, but "art official" acts with backing vocal tracks, uncredited singers, etc. are now accepted whereas in the past Milli Vanili caused a huge stir. We're collectively giving up on what concerts are supposed to be and talent is supposed to mean.

.

Yeah, it's not like Prince doesn't spend a portion of his gig triggering samples of songs. Or used the background vocals from the original recordings in live gigs so you suddenly end up hearing Wendy & Lisa.

.

Oh wait...

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality

.

Sure, whatever. I'll pretend I didn't read a thread yesterday in which a fan listed Robbie Williams's "Swing" album as one of the best of 2013.

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The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force.

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No they're not. They're a minute group, and most of them are dimwitted beyond belief. Just read the reactions to posts from Housequake or The Prince Museum on Facebook and you'll see people who have trouble reading the post they're reacting to. Follow Prince-related hashtags on Twitter and you'll find a dozen people retweeting each other.

BartVanHemelen said:

Militant said:

I see it as an acknowledgment that Prince's fanbase generally give a damn about quality

.

Sure, whatever. I'll pretend I didn't read a thread yesterday in which a fan listed Robbie Williams's "Swing" album as one of the best of 2013.

.

The Prince fanbase on social media sites like Twitter on Facebook is incredibly united and a strong force.

.

No they're not. They're a minute group, and most of them are dimwitted beyond belief. Just read the reactions to posts from Housequake or The Prince Museum on Facebook and you'll see people who have trouble reading the post they're reacting to. Follow Prince-related hashtags on Twitter and you'll find a dozen people retweeting each other.

So you read one positive comment about Robbie Williams and generalize on that basis but feel it's other people that are dim witted?

BartVanHemelen said:

Aerogram said:

Is it good for music as a whole that no one bats an eyelid while this continues and worsens? Sure, there are plenty of great musicians out there, but "art official" acts with backing vocal tracks, uncredited singers, etc. are now accepted whereas in the past Milli Vanili caused a huge stir. We're collectively giving up on what concerts are supposed to be and talent is supposed to mean.

.

Yeah, it's not like Prince doesn't spend a portion of his gig triggering samples of songs. Or used the background vocals from the original recordings in live gigs so you suddenly end up hearing Wendy & Lisa.

.

Oh wait...

And don't forget he uses autotune too. You see Bart, us dim witted fans (I know!) are capable on a good day to have an opinion that isn't completely either/or and black and white.

No one said Prince never uses "art official" means but the thing is that he evidently is not dependent on them. It's not a crutch to mask a lackj of talent.

All this bitter, serial criticism for the slightest reason is silly and more than a little petty.

One thing I've heard him say a bunch of times is how he doesn't want computers taking over the music industry. Aside from the hypocrisy of this technophobia, there's something else that's bothering about this. Not a lot of people have access to the same opportunities and resources prince has had in his life. Not everyone has access to, or can afford to (timewise or moneywise) buy instruments and equipment, get lessons, or even live in a community that nurtures musicianship. I think he might have forgotten that it's not as easy as just wanting to do it. If he really wants to promote 'real music' then how about putting up some music lessons on youtube or starting affordable music shops, academies, etc. instead of whining at everyone else from his position of privelege.

getfunked said:

One thing I've heard him say a bunch of times is how he doesn't want computers taking over the music industry. Aside from the hypocrisy of this technophobia, there's something else that's bothering about this. Not a lot of people have access to the same opportunities and resources prince has had in his life. Not everyone has access to, or can afford to (timewise or moneywise) buy instruments and equipment, get lessons, or even live in a community that nurtures musicianship. I think he might have forgotten that it's not as easy as just wanting to do it. If he really wants to promote 'real music' then how about putting up some music lessons on youtube or starting affordable music shops, academies, etc. instead of whining at everyone else from his position of privelege.

Besides having the luck of having parents will musical abilities, Prince only had his talent -- he didn't have "resources" besides his determination to learn and succeed. It's ridiculous to complain about his "privilege" -- unless you count the "privilege" of his family desintegrating and Prince landing in the basement of a second family where music was valued (the Andersons). He should now give affordable music lessons because it's unfair that he had the "opportunity"?

Millions of people with different economic means took serious music lessons and played some decent instruments -- are they out there being as celebrated as Prince for their abilities? I don't think so, therefore this is another insane gripe about Prince.