Hypothetically speaking, if Prince released the album "20Ten" in 1981, would you have liked it? Were we more forgiving of him back then?

So much of our love of an artist is formed when we are young. P could do no wrong from 1979 - 1988 (ish). All of those records are considered classics. Partly because I was more open to the music back then. I wanted it to be good, even when it was just average.

So, let's pretend that "20Ten" came out in 1981, and you heard it with young ears and a young mind. Would you have dug it?

Yeah, let's pretend.

Billmenever said:

Yeah, let's pretend.

Great idea....like the idea and approach to analysis.

However, I would have still preferred Dirty Mind since well...honestly I had a dirty mind.

As opposed to 20ten, which was about fairies, trixies, and unicorns. "EVeryone loves me"

Probably not. It was the first Prince album I heard the whole way through and I had no idea of its bad reputation. I thought it was a bit naff really... though I loved Future Soul Song.

As much as I love 20Ten, it would have been laughed at. That Woop de Woop loop de loop crap in "Everybody Loves Me" is cringe-worthy. Prince used to be cutting edge back then, and the goofball crap didn't really start until the 1990's...the ridiculously stupid "Mr Money Minder" speech by Tony M was another awful one...but 1980's Prince would not have done it.

totheteeth said:

The problem with 20Ten is mostly vocal. Prince sounds old and bitchy. From what I can tell the newer 3EG stuff has better vocals

I agree with what you say to a great degree.

Where I have most noted this is when I place Prince music on random. Hearing the newer material randomly placed with the classic material, I receive it with a fresher perspective and enjoy it more.

GetOfFunk said:

I absolutely agree with you, 20Ten it's not so bad as some people like to say. I bet that if it was, let's say, new D'angelo album then a lot of these people were talking about this "new great album".

Right on.

i'm really interested in questions like this! Why do new records from established acts often suck? Are they really just as good as old albums, and fans just don't recognise it for one reason or another?

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I'll say this, for what it's worth...

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I started really listening to Prince around 2010, maybe. I explored his new and his old stuff side by side, figuring that if 3121 gets 4 stars and Lovesexy gets 3.5 (this is from Allmusic, btw), then 3121 should be the album I listened to first. I think this gave new Prince a fair shot against old Prince. Probably people who are my age who went about listening to Prince in the same way have come to the same conclusions I have; that new Prince has some nice songs but old Prince is waaaaay better. If 3121 were so classic, why do I never listen to it but still play SOTT? Those were the first two Prince albums I listened to. I had no expectations of either of them. At one point I might have even liked 3121 a bit better. Somehow, though, it was SOTT that stood the test of time.

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The most striking thing for me was discovering Lovesexy after years of listening to Prince, after having played out a whole bunch of his albums from all over his career. I think my experience is the closest I can get to listening to Lovesexy as if it were released today. For some reason I wasn't expecting it to be very good - there was no "it's from the 80s, it's gonna be great" mindset. I actually thought I had already heard the best music Prince had to offer. As an otherwise seasoned Prince fan, I think my mindset towards Lovesexy before listening to it was very similar to my mindset towards a new album.

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But of course I found out that Lovesexy is awesome and is a thousand times better than anything released in the 2000's. I'm convinced that his new music certainly lacks something, and it isn't just a trick of our perceptions. Listening to Lovesexy made me think, very clearly, "this really is better than the stuff that came after".

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Really, think if Lovesexy came out today. Wouldn't you be taken aback by how much energy is in that album? How there's so much going on and how it seems like it's a little bit off the rails? Wouldn't it make 20Ten seem utterly tame?

totheteeth said:

I think it's completely true that people are deafened by their own nostalgia and the fact that they were more accepting of muisc in their youth by attaching songs to their personal experience at that formative time (being teens).

Much of Prince's output in the classic 80's was mediocre to my ears at the time. But to be fair, he seemed to have more great songs per album then. At least 5-6 songs per album were interesting and great in my opinion. Probably 1 out of 3 B-sides was also remarkable.

Whereas now it's about 3-4 songs per album that I think are gems. Popularity on radio or with other people has never affected how I feel about a song when I first hear it.

But hey, I'm that strange Prince fanatic (yes I collect all bootlegs too) that thinks that "Take Me With U" and "Computer Blue" "Money Don't Matter Tonight" and "Free" are mediocre cheesy songs. I also think "Raspberry Beret" is flawed with a poor arrangement especially on the chorus vocal harmony.

I just thought about how much money, time and energy that would have saved me.

It would still be a grey mediocre whisp of nothingness.

It's a good question. I imagine if a song like "Stickly Like Glue" was leaked prior with distortion and tape-hiss as a suposed 1982 outtake, people would have lost their shit. That said, as an album it doesn't compare with Dirty Mind/Controversy/1999 ... but it does have its moments of pure Minneapolis Sound.

toejam said:

Ppenguin said:

toejam said:

It's a good question. I imagine if a song like "Stickly Like Glue" was leaked prior with distortion and tape-hiss as a suposed 1982 outtake, people would have lost their shit. That said, as an album it doesn't compare with Dirty Mind/Controversy/1999 ... but it does have its moments of pure Minneapolis Sound.

Sticky like glue and Laydown are the only 2 songs on the bilgefest that are good

Future Soul Song and Lavaux are pretty excellent.

ufoclub said:

I think it's completely true that people are deafened by their own nostalgia and the fact that they were more accepting of muisc in their youth by attaching songs to their personal experience at that formative time (being teens).

Much of Prince's output in the classic 80's was mediocre to my ears at the time. But to be fair, he seemed to have more great songs per album then. At least 5-6 songs per album were interesting and great in my opinion. Probably 1 out of 3 B-sides was also remarkable.

Whereas now it's about 3-4 songs per album that I think are gems. Popularity on radio or with other people has never affected how I feel about a song when I first hear it.

But hey, I'm that strange Prince fanatic (yes I collect all bootlegs too) that thinks that "Take Me With U" and "Computer Blue" "Money Don't Matter Tonight" and "Free" are mediocre cheesy songs. I also think "Raspberry Beret" is flawed with a poor arrangement especially on the chorus vocal harmony.

I think so too

toejam said:

It's a good question. I imagine if a song like "Stickly Like Glue" was leaked prior with distortion and tape-hiss as a suposed 1982 outtake, people would have lost their shit. That said, as an album it doesn't compare with Dirty Mind/Controversy/1999 ... but it does have its moments of pure Minneapolis Sound.

A completely idiotic question to be honest, because music is a result of its time!

Ppenguin said:

toejam said:

It's a good question. I imagine if a song like "Stickly Like Glue" was leaked prior with distortion and tape-hiss as a suposed 1982 outtake, people would have lost their shit. That said, as an album it doesn't compare with Dirty Mind/Controversy/1999 ... but it does have its moments of pure Minneapolis Sound.

Sticky like glue and Laydown are the only 2 songs on the bilgefest that are good

Lavaux Sea of Everything & Sticky Like Glue I enjoy and listen to still

The others just don't do it 4 me

toejam said:

It's a good question. I imagine if a song like "Stickly Like Glue" was leaked prior with distortion and tape-hiss as a suposed 1982 outtake, people would have lost their shit. That said, as an album it doesn't compare with Dirty Mind/Controversy/1999 ... but it does have its moments of pure Minneapolis Sound.

I think that happened with LotusFlower, (There'll Never B) Another Like Me, if I remember correctly there was a snippet that sounded pretty tasty, then when the full song came out out, the air quickly left the balloon.

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If Ronnie Talks 2 Russia is the weakest song on Controversy it surpasses anything on 20Ten.

I agree 20Ten has more Minneapolis Sound on 1 song that MPLSound has on the whole album.

^I remember that snippet of "(There'll Never B) Another Like Me". I thought it was a fake - someone pretending to be Prince! It sounded too Prince-by-numbers to me. Turned out that it was Prince himself doing Prince-by-numbers!

ufoclub said:

I think it's completely true that people are deafened by their own nostalgia and the fact that they were more accepting of muisc in their youth by attaching songs to their personal experience at that formative time (being teens).

Much of Prince's output in the classic 80's was mediocre to my ears at the time. But to be fair, he seemed to have more great songs per album then. At least 5-6 songs per album were interesting and great in my opinion. Probably 1 out of 3 B-sides was also remarkable.

Whereas now it's about 3-4 songs per album that I think are gems. Popularity on radio or with other people has never affected how I feel about a song when I first hear it.

But hey, I'm that strange Prince fanatic (yes I collect all bootlegs too) that thinks that "Take Me With U" and "Computer Blue" "Money Don't Matter Tonight" and "Free" are mediocre cheesy songs. I also think "Raspberry Beret" is flawed with a poor arrangement especially on the chorus vocal harmony.

That is only true in parts. I mean every Prince fan didn't live through Dirty Mind or Controversy, they may have discovered it after being Purple Rain fans or heard it after Diamonds and Pearls or even more a younger fan who's first Prince album is Musicology. I've had many discussions with new Prince fans and they too get hooked on those golden years.

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Check out fusk's post I think it explains what I'm talking about.

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I'm very forgiving when it comes to a lot of technical things such as arrangements/vocal harmony. I always give his albums listen with lots of hope.

I truly believe life experiences at particular times reflected in the albums say a lot about how the music will be received. And I don't think it's just about being young. It's about experiencing life. I know 20 year olds who by what they do and where they are, might as well be in the old folks home. And I know 70 year olds who are still dancing falling in love, getting educations and learning knew things. So the 20 yr old vs 50 yr old comparison never works on me. It's about living and experiencing life, which of course also mean 100% human connections, not business connections.

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I'm not going to go to far into this, but if you look at the people in his life in those 1980s years vs those in his life after 1990 or 2000, it says a lot about how he's filtering the world around him. Even for Prince between 1984-1988 that fame was still raw and new for him. Prior to 1984 Prince was popular but still very green. doing laundry with Lisa Coleman, Lisa Coleman making him sandwiches when she lived with him, playing around joking with Morris Day and Jerome, seeing his close friend from high school Morris (whom he lived with his family for a period) on the big screen in 1984 together, become friends with Jill Jones on tour with Tina Marie in 1980, at a concert with Andre listening to the Escovedos' and seeing Sheila E etc I mean I can go on and on about this. And I'm focusing on the 'real life' living that buffers the ego, that exposes to everyday experiences that fuels the imagination.

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On the 21 Nights cd he had a piece where he tried to talk about how he was 'just like us' having to get his mother cigarettes when he was young etc But he's not having those experiences anymore, for a long time after 1989 he has cloistered himself around people who really are there for work. A very different flow of experiences vs his pre 1990s. I love Prince and I respect his journey, I always think would him hanging with the O7 and jamming make a difference in how he's processing life into his own music. Would he be able to just chill like coming home and being with family.

iZsaZsa said:

What kind of sandwiches?

ham n cheese

with a cherry lolly pop

and doritos

OldFriends4Sale said:

iZsaZsa said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ham n cheese

with a cherry lolly pop

and doritos

Probably toasted corn flavored, the one he ate in Purple Rain.

and Capt Crunch

Prince also got the 'vision' for Little Red Corvette while sleeping in Lisa's corvette

OldFriends4Sale said: