Sometimes I feel Prince has done stuff for folks where there are zero credits for him. Yes, on this album, he is officially responsible for Martikas Kitchen, Spirit, Love... Thy Will Be Done and Don't Say U Love Me, but, to me at least, A Magical Place has his signature all over it. It is similar to the other stuff he did on the album and very dissimilar to all the other non Prince stuff on the album. Queue it up, give it a listen, love to hear your thoughts.

Peace

YUeah, it's very Prince, but also very Wendy&Lisa. It could have been a track on one of their albums.

funny i was listening to Martika's Kitchen (Alt. Dub Version)
And the beat sounds like its taken from The Sacrifice Of Victor
Jump anywhere to the middle of the track http://www.youtube.com/wa...rJUXA3kFuM

If this wasn't him then it's one of the best Prince immitations done in that period.

lezama said:

If this wasn't him then it's one of the best Prince immitations done in that period.

It has to be him if the song uses the same beat and percussion elements. (Unless that is a preset beat on a keyboard that Junior Vasquez & Prince, and whoever produced this song happened upon around the same time). Bu then there's the elements that are also in "7" (and, I think, "2 Whom it May Concern").

[Edited 8/2/14 10:22am]

I'm not convinced, but my guess is if it's Prince, it wasn't finished by Prince.

It's credited to Christopher Max... and there's no reason to think he didn't do it based on his own music. https://www.youtube.com/w...IbpcsDfdik

The beat is pretty generic for the time. Something you'd hear all over BET. Some of the structure and harmonies sounds more like someone copying ATWID Prince (if not him, rehashing his own ideas) and there's more than a little Janet Jackson influence there, and some of Tribe's Bonita Applebaum. It's also hard to tell when Prince was just influenced by his copycats, and felt like taking ideas back.

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

.

People "thinking" that was behind a song because to them it "sounds" princey is sheer nonsense. Research and interviews have been done about those things and only further research and interviews should be be taken into account in order to contradict previous research and interviews, certainly not people's "feelings".

.

had nothing to do with A Magical Place and I'll add that I don't find it specifically sounding like a song at all, I mean back then most dance music had elements borrowed from 's music or the Mpls sound so yeah if u gonna put it like that then it's princey but so are a million other songs so why not claim was behind all of them while we're at it?

.

It's a really wonderful song, nonetheless, this Christopher Max dude did a really brilliant job there

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

.

People "thinking" that was behind a song because to them it "sounds" princey is sheer nonsense. Research and interviews have been done about those things and only further research and interviews should be be taken into account in order to contradict previous research and interviews, certainly not people's "feelings".

.

had nothing to do with A Magical Place and I'll add that I don't find it specifically sounding like a song at all, I mean back then most dance music had elements borrowed from 's music or the Mpls sound so yeah if u gonna put it like that then it's princey but so are a million other songs so why not claim was behind all of them while we're at it?

.

It's a really wonderful song, nonetheless, this Christopher Max dude did a really brilliant job there

Awe, someone give databank a hug please, and while your at it, please support him 100% in his moderation ambitions.

Yes it is a great song, I agree with you on that, however, finding a song that sounds like Prince on an album where there are 4 other Prince songs, is a lot different than picking a song at random from that time period and saying it could be Prince.

Peace

[Edited 8/2/14 11:22am]

While we are on the Martika topic, of interest might be two remixes of Spirit that I just found on youtube.

Spirit (Hip-Hop Mix)

Spirit (House Mix)

I never knew these existed, perhaps you didn't either. The Prince footprint seems far removed from these as they are remixed heavily, but they are interesting nontheless.

Peace

[snip] nevermind! What's the point?

[Edited 8/2/14 11:32am]

leadline said:

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

.

People "thinking" that was behind a song because to them it "sounds" princey is sheer nonsense. Research and interviews have been done about those things and only further research and interviews should be be taken into account in order to contradict previous research and interviews, certainly not people's "feelings".

.

had nothing to do with A Magical Place and I'll add that I don't find it specifically sounding like a song at all, I mean back then most dance music had elements borrowed from 's music or the Mpls sound so yeah if u gonna put it like that then it's princey but so are a million other songs so why not claim was behind all of them while we're at it?

.

It's a really wonderful song, nonetheless, this Christopher Max dude did a really brilliant job there

Awe, someone give databank a hug please, and while your at it, please support him 100% in his moderation ambitions.

Yes it is a great song, I agree with you on that, however, finding a song that sounds like Prince on an album where there are 4 other Prince songs, is a lot different than picking a song at random from that time period and saying it could be Prince.

Peace

[Edited 8/2/14 11:22am]

I could definitely enjoy a hug, to be honest

.

I have no moderation ambitions if u mean by that that I aim to become a moderator, I've already stated this last time someone suspected me to have this purpose in mind.

.

As for picking a song on an album that have other songs on it I understand ur point but I'd say that precisely because of the connection those sessions have been scrupulously researched by Per Nilsen and friends, and therefore u'd probably be more likely to find a hidden song on a totally unconnected album than on Martika's Kitchen. + Martika has spoken (years later) about those songs and how they were done, so she certainly wouldn't have forgotten to mention such a thing.

.

My point is that while a thread in the Associated artists forum about how great this song is and how much of a good imitation of 's signature sound it was if this is how u feel would be totally fine in my book. A thread in the Prince: music & more forum implying that may have contributed to the song is in my opinion misleading and can do nothing but contribute to create urban legends. There is no new factual information to back-up your assumption, therefore there is nothing to discuss about, period. I'm sorry, I'm not making this up, it's what it is.

.

Peace

databank said:

leadline said:

Awe, someone give databank a hug please, and while your at it, please support him 100% in his moderation ambitions.

Yes it is a great song, I agree with you on that, however, finding a song that sounds like Prince on an album where there are 4 other Prince songs, is a lot different than picking a song at random from that time period and saying it could be Prince.

Peace

[Edited 8/2/14 11:22am]

I could definitely enjoy a hug, to be honest

.

I have no moderation ambitions if u mean by that that I aim to become a moderator, I've already stated this last time someone suspected me to have this purpose in mind.

.

As for picking a song on an album that have other songs on it I understand ur point but I'd say that precisely because of the connection those sessions have been scrupulously researched by Per Nilsen and friends, and therefore u'd probably be more likely to find a hidden song on a totally unconnected album than on Martika's Kitchen. + Martika has spoken (years later) about those songs and how they were done, so she certainly wouldn't have forgotten to mention such a thing.

.

My point is that while a thread in the Associated artists forum about how great this song is and how much of a good imitation of 's signature sound it was if this is how u feel would be totally fine in my book. A thread in the Prince: music & more forum implying that may have contributed to the song is in my opinion misleading and can do nothing but contribute to create urban legends. There is no new factual information to back-up your assumption, therefore there is nothing to discuss about, period. I'm sorry, I'm not making this up, it's what it is.

.

Peace

So this would not be the correct time to mention that I feel Promise Of A New Day is also a Prince song?

leadline said:

databank said:

I could definitely enjoy a hug, to be honest

.

I have no moderation ambitions if u mean by that that I aim to become a moderator, I've already stated this last time someone suspected me to have this purpose in mind.

.

As for picking a song on an album that have other songs on it I understand ur point but I'd say that precisely because of the connection those sessions have been scrupulously researched by Per Nilsen and friends, and therefore u'd probably be more likely to find a hidden song on a totally unconnected album than on Martika's Kitchen. + Martika has spoken (years later) about those songs and how they were done, so she certainly wouldn't have forgotten to mention such a thing.

.

My point is that while a thread in the Associated artists forum about how great this song is and how much of a good imitation of 's signature sound it was if this is how u feel would be totally fine in my book. A thread in the Prince: music & more forum implying that may have contributed to the song is in my opinion misleading and can do nothing but contribute to create urban legends. There is no new factual information to back-up your assumption, therefore there is nothing to discuss about, period. I'm sorry, I'm not making this up, it's what it is.

.

Peace

So this would not be the correct time to mention that I feel Promise Of A New Day is also a Prince song?

Well, while we're at it I guess yeah it would

.

U have a hell of a good taste in silly romantic pop songs, I'll give u that, Promise Of A New Day is just as much as wonderful as A Magical Place I also have a particular crush on Coloured Kisses.

No one knew of or even recognized the Prince contributions to Keep it Together, Like a Prayer (the video intro), or Act Of Contrition or Stand Back until the info was explicitly stated... and by the same token people mistakenly think he cowrote some material with his father or cowrote particular things with Wendy and Lisa.

ufoclub said:

No one knew of or even recognized the Prince contributions to Keep it Together, Like a Prayer (the video intro), or Act Of Contrition or Stand Back until the info was explicitly stated... and by the same token people mistakenly think he cowrote some material with his father or cowrote particular things with Wendy and Lisa.

It's true, and there is a history of Prince disguising credits, or not taking a credit where he should have.

But in this case, it's just as likely the song was written by Clivelles & Coles, or the guy who actually got the credit, whom few of us, including myself, know all that much about. Now why he'd borrow from Prince on a record that Prince worked on is strange, but maybe they wanted a cohesive sound to the record and needed some cheaper tracks as filler.

treehouse said:

ufoclub said:

No one knew of or even recognized the Prince contributions to Keep it Together, Like a Prayer (the video intro), or Act Of Contrition or Stand Back until the info was explicitly stated... and by the same token people mistakenly think he cowrote some material with his father or cowrote particular things with Wendy and Lisa.

It's true, and there is a history of Prince disguising credits, or not taking a credit where he should have.

But in this case, it's just as likely the song was written by Clivelles & Coles, or the guy who actually got the credit, whom few of us, including myself, know all that much about. Now why he'd borrow from Prince on a record that Prince worked on is strange, but maybe they wanted a cohesive sound to the record and needed some cheaper tracks as filler.

Well, I put the question to him in a message on Soundcloud (Christopher Max). Maybe he'll answer.

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

•

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvement at all.

•

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fact I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

[Edited 8/2/14 18:27pm]

Now that is how to get to the bottom of things! Thanks! Would love here some other stuff this guy did.

ufoclub said:

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvment at all.

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fat I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

Here he is on Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/cmax1

ufoclub said:

Here he is on Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/cmax1

Thanks

ufoclub said:

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

•

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvement at all.

•

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fact I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

[Edited 8/2/14 18:27pm]

Awesome job Ufoclub! Thanks a lot for clarifying this once and for all. Actually u showed everyone here what to do, what u just did was genuine research (asking the people involved), so I suggest next time someone thinks did a song they do just what u did here: contact someone who was involved thru their website BEFORE they post their conspiracy theories on this forum

.

Peace.

ufoclub said:

No one knew of or even recognized the Prince contributions to Keep it Together, Like a Prayer (the video intro), or Act Of Contrition or Stand Back until the info was explicitly stated... and by the same token people mistakenly think he cowrote some material with his father or cowrote particular things with Wendy and Lisa.

It seems the video intro (which is also the album version's intro) wasn't by . I also assumed it was the case because it sounds the same as the guitar on Act Of Contrition and Madonna stated that recorded "some weird shit on guitar" for her to use, but it seems it wasn't the case.

.

I once suggested that maybe Leonard didn't consider the intro to be part of the song itself, since it's not on the single mixes and 's parts on those are elsewhere in the song but I was explained that the topic had been discussed intensively on Housequake and that the consensus was that had nothing to do with this intro. Per Nilsen's reasearch also going in that direction, I see no reason to argue about this. I'll follow Ufoclub's example and send an email to Leonard about this, though, but I'm not sure whether the person in charge for his mails will carry the message, let alone the reply.

I love those other songs that some people have mistaken as outtakes, "The Do"; "Rub U Down"; and "Beautiful Fabulous." I wish she had other songs like those. I wonder wy she never used them?

littlebandit said:

I love those other songs that some people have mistaken as outtakes, "The Do"; "Rub U Down"; and "Beautiful Fabulous." I wish she had other songs like those. I wonder wy she never used them?

Those sessions most likely never produced a full lenght album and the reason is probably that there was no label to back her up at the time, then she moved on to this Oppera project. Great songs indeed, though.

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

.

People "thinking" that was behind a song because to them it "sounds" princey is sheer nonsense. Research and interviews have been done about those things and only further research and interviews should be be taken into account in order to contradict previous research and interviews, certainly not people's "feelings".

.

had nothing to do with A Magical Place and I'll add that I don't find it specifically sounding like a song at all, I mean back then most dance music had elements borrowed from 's music or the Mpls sound so yeah if u gonna put it like that then it's princey but so are a million other songs so why not claim was behind all of them while we're at it?

.

It's a really wonderful song, nonetheless, this Christopher Max dude did a really brilliant job there

This is one of two topics where we will always disagree.

I'm not talking about this Martika song specifically, as I haven't pulled it off the shelf to see what I think yet, but, in general, on the topic of: did Prince contribute to songs uncredited that we don't know about... YET.

I can't understand why you are so militant in your stance that if research and interviews have not yet revealed a Prince contribution then there is not one. I think it's silly to assume that all has been revealed and that there's nothing left to discover.

I remember when the Nude Tour Book came out in 1990. By that point, most everyone had figured out that Prince was Jamie Starr and was responsible for tracks by The Time, Vanity, Sheila, etc... but, it was the first official admission that so much of this great material was in fact by Prince. Many people were surprised by some of the additions.

I once knew a guy who's opinion was similar to yours: He insisted that because so much had been revealed about Prince's contributions, that all had been revealed and anything not revealed was not Prince. We argued about the Mazarati album and he was sure that 100 MPH was the only song Prince contributed to. Later it was revealed that at the very least, Prince had a hand in rewriting the lyrics to two other tracks as well.

We also argued about George Clinton's Paisley Park releases. Again, he was sure that only what had been credited could be attributed to Prince. Later, an engineer comes on the org and let's us know that Prince did appear on Get Satisfied (uncredited) and iirc other uncredited appearances on George's PP releases.

Why, with examples like these, would you assume that there will not be more?
You know there are sometimes reasons artists don't take credit. How about Lenny Kravitz' contributions to Prince, for example: they weren't credited because of record company contracts.

There is no reason to think that "research and interviews" have exposed every uncredited appearance. I believe that there are quite a few unknown Prince credits and that lacking any official acknowledgement, all we can do is exactly what the OP of this thread did: speculate.

So, no, these threads do not have to stop. They're among the most interesting threads in my never humble opinion.

ufoclub said:

No one knew of or even recognized the Prince contributions to Keep it Together, Like a Prayer (the video intro), or Act Of Contrition or Stand Back until the info was explicitly stated... and by the same token people mistakenly think he cowrote some material with his father or cowrote particular things with Wendy and Lisa.

databank said:

ufoclub said:

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

•

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvement at all.

•

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fact I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

[Edited 8/2/14 18:27pm]

Awesome job Ufoclub! Thanks a lot for clarifying this once and for all. Actually u showed everyone here what to do, what u just did was genuine research (asking the people involved), so I suggest next time someone thinks did a song they do just what u did here: contact someone who was involved thru their website BEFORE they post their conspiracy theories on this forum

.

Peace.

I second that! Great job Ufoclub.