gainsbourg said:

LOL...no,he did NOT write that song!

I think it was written by Jellybean Benitez,who also produced it.But there is no Prince involvement at all.

Mia - unless you are Prince himself..You don't know what songs he wrote for other artists.

On a related note...Madonna is planning to release a multi-disc box set at the end of this year.She has promised that it may contain some of her unreleased recordings with Prince.Possibly "Mad","Funk Of A Thousand Years",or a demo version of "Love Song"? I can't wait!

gainsbourg said:

Wrong again.

gainsbourg said:

It's true that,in the 80s,Prince routinely wrote songs for other artists but used fake names in the credits (such as "Jamie Starr" and "Alexander Nevermind").But,for the most part,we already found out about these recordings.Uptown,in particular,has done extensive research on all the songs that Prince has written for others.


As someone pointed out,there are many songs by other artists that SOUND like Prince (such as "Waterfalls" by TLC),but let's not get crazy here and assume that Prince wrote all types of songs that he,in fact,had nothing to do with,such as that Whitney Houston track (and if he IS responsible for that awful song,I'd rather NOT know it...lol).

gainsbourg said:

Prince has regularly used pseudonyms as a writer, performer and producer when releasing or sharing music, but his identity has always been revealed when the songs or recordings have been registered with the Library of Congress. There is an abundance of evidence that Prince ultimately claims credit for his songwriting.

There is a dearth of evidence that Prince gave lyrics for 'Like A Prayer' to Madonna who then collaborated with Patrick Leonard and shared credit with him for the songwriting - but did not reveal the true origin of 'Prince's' lyrics. All you have to go on is that the lyrics sound or read like they could be by Prince.

So far in this thread you have claimed that:

Wrong.That well known nickname of his - yeah.

You back up your argument with such flimsy

offerings as:

But a quick check at the Library of Congress reveals who the author was. Simple..

Then, as you start flailing, you throw in

complete irrelevance:

So what?

and

Vague, just like your argument.

and then ...

- that's the song written by Toni C which the Library of Congress tells us is actually a pseudonym for Antoniette Colandreo, and whose website is here:

http://www.toni-c.com/songwriter.htm

and who has a 54 song repertoire listed on the BMI website:

http://www.bmi.com/home.asp

and then you say ...Total bollocks. I bought the single on the day of its release in the full knowledge that I was buying a Prince-penned song. I even recall explaining to the sales assistant why i knew it was Prince.

You've offered a litany of speculation and ignorance.

If you want to know what songs Prince wrote and then gave to other artists, you can look it up in the Library of Congress or turn to those people who have done such research. If you want to go on speculating / imagining that Prince wrote 'Like A Prayer', feel free to continue looking stupid.
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[This message was edited Wed Mar 19 5:35:09 PST 2003 by langebleu]

Langebleu, I really think you need to chill out.
I was making the point that Prince went out with Madonna in the 80's and helped with a lot of her songs. FACT!!
It is also completely plausible that he wrote songs for others we don't know about. To say "No, we'd find out" is idiotic. There have been plenty of cases of songwriters not wanting their identity to be found out and succeding. eg. Michael Jackson, Paul Mcartney etc. FACT!!
Sheila E is a perfect example of this - the credits read "Written and Produced by Sheila E" which is untrue. This could easily be the case with Madonna - Prince obviously doesn't mind giving other people credit for his work. A quick check with the Library of congress reveals nothing of the sort. If prince wanted to give Sheila the credit - why would he have done it in a half-hearted way?FACT!!
The Pope IS a nickname for Prince. Various associates have referred to him at some stage. Are you not aware of the song on The Hits 2? FACT!!
I would say the fact that someone as talentless and obscure as Ingrid Chavez wrote the lyrics to one of Madonna's biggest hits (Uncredited as it happens) means there is a fairly strong connection between Prince and that record.FACT!!

gainsbourg said:

I think that Ingrid's album is one of the best associated albums.

Concious..you may be right. But that isn't really a reflection on her talent.
Maybe, I was rong to call her talentless. I just mean she wouldn't have got a chance to write for Madonna, without the Prince connection.

gainsbourg said:

Oh please!!!

Madonna is a fan of The Pope,and that's who she was referring to in the credits to her 'LAP' album! If she was gonna thank Prince,don't you think she would have just used his real name? She doesn't really play those mysterious "name games",she's up front and direct. Yes,Prince went out with Madonna (briefly) in early 1985,but I already told you the extent of their collaborations together.He only CO-WROTE the song "Love Song" with her,and played guitar on a few other songs on her album.

She is definitely not referring to the real pope!! Let's please get that straight!! She has said a lot of negative things about him in the past, and no way is he her divine inspiration!!

There are no past singles by other artists that were written by Prince that have not been confirmed as having his input.

End of story.

Deal with it.

gainsbourg said:

Wrong again!

David - The real pope is not her divine inspiration. She is not that innocent!
Mia - He could very possibly have helped out with the lyrics to 'Like a Prayer'.
I don't know if they were going out at this time (some books say they were) but if he had helped, they would not have wanted people to know. If the press knew they were dating, it would have been just about the biggest media sensation of the century.
Please stop picking on me!! I'm only speculating!!

Why am I even debating with someone who thinks that Prince wrote the song "Love Will Save The Day" for Whitney Houston?

DavidEye said:

LMAO!!

True dat!

gainsbourg said:

I'm only gonna say this one more time,so pay close attention...


Madonna and Prince dated a few times in early 1985.In 1988,when Madonna started recording her 'LAP' album,she was still married to Sean Penn (and Prince was rumored to be engaged to Sheila E. around this time).So no,Madonna and Prince were NOT dating in 88-89.

Why is that so unreasonable?? He's written for dodgier artists than her (eg.Sheena Easton) and he's written dodgier songs than that (eg.La La Hee)

Aside from the point i made earlier I very much doubt if Princes ego would allow him to keep quiet about writing mega hits, lets face it the names he used to write under weren't exactly the best kept secrets in the world were they.

@ gainsbourg

javed..i don't agree..you know he has put songs aside to be released after he dies?? If his ego was too big, why didn't he use his real name in the first place??
David, I am sick of you acting like you know everything about Princes sex life
You have no idea if they were dating at that time. That's all there is to it. They were obviosly friends. Why wouldn't they have sex?? Do you know if he dated Sheena Easton or Kylie Minogue or Martika. No, you don't.

gainsbourg said:

No it is not a FACT.

1. How many songs beyond the four songs that have been mentioned here (Love Song, which Prince co-wrote, and Act of Contrition, Keep It Together and Like A Prayer, where Prince's guitar work features) can you name that proves for a fact that Prince helped with a lot of her songs. Please provide categoric proof to support your claim that this is a FACT or stop speaking inaccurately.

2.

You stated:

You were not making the general point that Prince went out with Madonna in the '80s. Again, inaccurate.I never said that 'No, we'd find out', and I never denied it was plausible. I simply provided considerable evidence that demonstrated the plausibility of this was thin in the extreme, and showed your argument for what it was - feeble speculation, inaccurate, and poorly researched.Plenty!!! You name 2 who failed because you know about them. And you can't name anymore, can you? Please explain what you mean by the word 'plenty' and prove it as a FACT. You can't.This is not a perfect example. Firstly, people already suspected that:

1. The Starr Company,credited on the album. was Prince.
2. You can hear Prince on the album even though he is nowhere credited on the liner notes.

With these suspicions of undisclosed Prince involvement, the researcher simply

3. Undertakes a search at the Library of Congress and discovers that Prince wrote

the songs

So I do a search against 'Like A Prayer' and discover that it doesn't say Madonna is a pseudonym for Prince. Prince doesn't 'obviously' do anything in this respect - that's just you making an assumption to give credence to your weak theory.Let's do a simple search then: Go to the Library of Congress website and type in the words 'glamorous life' next to 'title' - select the obvious candidates and we get:

1. Registration Number: PA-225-841
Title: The Belle of Saint Mark.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.Sheila E..
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc : 33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 1, band 1
Claimant: Girlsongs
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: words & music: Jamie Starr

2. Registration Number: PA-225-842
Title: Shortberry strawcake.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.Sheila E..
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc : 33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 1, band 2
Claimant: Girlsongs
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: music: Jamie Starr

3. Registration Number: PA-225-843
Title: Noon rendezvous.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc : 33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 1, band 3
Claimant: Girlsongs & acSheila Escovedo
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: words & music: Jamie Starr , & Sheila Escovedo (p.k.a. Sheila E.)

4. Registration Number: PA-225-844
Title: Oliver's house.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.Sheila E..
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc :33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 2, band 1
Claimant: Girlsongs
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: words & music: Jamie Starr

5. Registration Number: PA-225-845
Title: Next time wipe the lipstick off your collar.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.Sheila E..
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc: 33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 2, band 2
Claimant: Girlsongs
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: words & music: Jamie Starr

6. Registration Number: PA-225-846
Title: The Glamorous life.
Note: Performed by Sheila E.Sheila E..
In: The Glamorous life. mW B Records 1-25107, c1984. 1 sound disc:33 1/3 rpm ; 12 in. side 2, band 3
Claimant: Girlsongs
Created: 1984
Published: 4Jun84
Registered: 13Aug84
Author on © Application: words & music: Jamie Starr

That simple! Shiela E didn't write all those songs as was claimed. It was some guy named Jamie Starr - who is revealed on the Library of Congress database as being a pseudonym for Prince Rogers Nelson.I didn't say it wasn't a nickname, but I'd be delighted if you could produce the evidence of 'various associates' who referred to him using this name.Of course I'm aware of it - so what???
This is completely laughable.

Your logic is all over the place. You're hanging by your finger nails to the thread of a theory. And now you dream up another example.

The collaboration (and the subsequent disagreement) was originally with Lenny Kravitz. How Lenny and Ingrid came to work together has not, as far as I'm aware been documented. It's quite possible it was because Ingrid met Lenny through Prince. There's nothing to show otherwise, and evidence to suggest, that Kravitz then collaborated with Madonna, but Ingrid's contribution to the lyrics was not made clear either at that stage or sometime later. If this were to be the case, the link between Prince and Madonna is therefore weak.

In any event, just because someone is not well known and even talentless (in your opinion) doesn't mean they can't write lyrics which end up on a best-selling single of a major artist (without the assistance of their 'mentor', in this case, Prince). Sometimes shit words by talentless no-hopers make them a fortune: gainsbourg, keep writing - this stuff could make you a millionaire.
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[This message was edited Wed Mar 19 9:17:12 PST 2003 by langebleu]

By the way, the thank you to the "Pope" was really directed towards her brother, who she refers to as "the Pope".

Axchi696 said:

Thanks, interesting - where did you pick up on this?

Sidenote: we now await 'gainsbourg' revising the 'Prince wrote Madonna's songs theory' to account for this - shock, horror - 'Prince and Madonna must therefore be brother and sister because Madonna calls her brother 'the Pope',... or did Madonna's brother really write all of Prince's songs under a pseudonym? - it might be plausible. If I close my eyes and say it enough times, it might come true.
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[This message was edited Wed Mar 19 9:18:27 PST 2003 by langebleu]

I cannot believe how childish this guy is..
I barely read the last post, it was just abuse being hurled at me.
Prince and Madonna were close in the late 80's. He helped her out on certain songs on her 'Like a prayer' album. I was just speculating that maybe he contributed more than he was credited for.
Now, can someone please explain why langebleu is spurting out venom about me not researching my facts and being a no-hoper.
Why is me speculating that 'The Pope' might be addressing Prince less plausible than Axchi696 speculating it might be about her brother?
Why is me speculating that Madonna and Prince could have been dating in the late 80's less plausible than langebleu categorically stating that they weren't?

Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read that The Pope was Madonna's nickname for her brother Christopher. I think it might have been in an interview circa 1994 when she was asked about his contributions to the Girlie Show. I'll have to do a little bit of looking around to figure it out, though.

Actually, I found a link that confirms this...


http://www.madonna-online...90-tic.htm

First of all, I withdraw unreservedly the comments I made about 'the no-hoper' - it was unfair and I apologise.

This is a discussion board where people often speculate and sometimes assert things as fact. Backing up a theory or substantiating statements with evidence is all part of the discussion, and being prepared to review a theory in the light of further evidence is also part of arguing to a resolution. Sometimes people argue hard.You responded to my original post by stating what you described to be 'facts.' These were not facts, and I provided examples of simple research which proved them not to be 'facts'.

Otherwise I asked you to provide evidence to substantiate your statements as factual. You haven't been able to substantiate them as facts with further evidence, and you haven't yet refuted the evidence I provided where I exposed your statements as non-factual.It's no more or no less plausible until either of you starts to provide evidence to substantiate the statements. I've asked you to provide examples of when Prince has been referred to as 'The Pope' by former associates and you have provided nothing. I've asked Axchi696 to provide details of where Madonna refers to a brother this way - as Axchi696 states, and Axchia696 has kindly traced a link to a website where they read this.I have not stated categorically that they were not dating. Please do not claim I said things which I did not. I questioned the statement you made about everyone knowing Prince and Madonna were dating during 1989/90. You, however, started this thread by asserting that Prince and Madonna dated during 1989/90 (not, as you claim here, that you were speculating they could have dated sometime during the late '80s) - and the only evidence you had was that, in your opinion, 'everyone knows'.

I queried it as a fact, and I see that you now believe it was only speculation, and apparently you have no evidence to suggest they dated specifically during 1989/90, but simply collaborated profesionally.
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[This message was edited Wed Mar 19 11:08:44 PST 2003 by langebleu]

?U
?-,

rg said:

And I'm sick of YOU acting as if you know everything about what songs Prince did or didn't write for other artists! There is no need to "speculate" on this matter when you can actually look it up at the Library Of Congress (the way langebleu just did).Furthermore,this very topic has been extensively researched by Uptown magazine.You really should invest in the 'DMSR','Days Of Wild', and 'Turn It Up' books,and maybe order a few back issues of Uptown.Otherwise,you will come on this site looking like a fool,spreading stupid rumors that can easily be proven wrong.





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[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 0:39:19 PST 2003 by DavidEye]

gainsbourg said:

Waterfalls by tlc sounds NOTHING like Paul McCartneys song. Both have very different vibes, TLC's being funky, Maccas being almost a lament. The lyrics are different, the melody unreconisable, so i dont see how you think it was a rip off.

Both are great songs, but totally different.