treehouse said:

Actually, yes, ALL VHS tapes do feature these quirks to some degree. Fact. Also I was being serious about my nolstalgia for those qualities/defects.

Come on. That's ridiculous.

When I started dumping my tapes 10-12 years ago I had some tapes that I had recorded 20 years earlier that were better quality than tapes that were only months old. Some were better picture and sound than prerecorded VHS I had purchased.

The point?

Like ALL media there was a vast range of VHS tape quality.

As there is a vast range in player quality.

Not to mention the difference proper storage or lack thereof had on quality.

That said, the medium did suck and mostly for the reasons you said. See, the only thing I disagree with you on is the idea that VHS wasn't a good option because all tapes had these problems inherently. And, after all, we're discussing VHS as an alternative to Cassette, and ALL the problems that could be had with VHS were also common with audio tape. The point was that VHS was better because it reproduced a better quality.

Obviously it wasn't perfect, though...

Thunderfunk - I think I agree with all of that, but it was still low end analog tape. It wasn't a mastering or preservation medium unless you count ADAT. The pro grade stuff had better coatings, but then you were better off with Hi8 or 3/4"

A pristine VHS without some tape hiss? It doesn't exist. Was it better than other formats? Uh, sure. Was it serviceable, and do I believe you have nice quality copies of stuff? Uh, well sure, relatively speaking.

But your tapes most certainly contain flaws inherent in the medium. I like those flaws, I can't stress that enough. I probably love my VHS *because* of it's characteristics. All of it has drops outs, flaking, banding, spreading, etc. All of it has warping, and stretching. All of it was hiss. All of it is capable of developing ghosting and bleeding. Wether or not you notice it.

There's a huge difference in the quality and technology of the Hifi tracks on VHS (note it is nothing like a cassette tape, its an FM type signal mixed into the video track. It also didn't have the hiss associated with linear analog tape like that of pre Hifi VHS or cassette.

"It's analog. But not via the linear audio tracks of the tape. It's a carrier-modulated signal, embedded in the video portion of the signal."

"Both VHS Hi-Fi and Betamax Hi-Fi delivered flat full-range frequency response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB signal-to-noise ratio (in consumer space, second only to the compact disc), dynamic range of 90 dB, and professional audio-grade channel separation (more than 70dB)"

ufoclub said:

It also didn't have the hiss associated with linear analog tape like that of pre Hifi VHS or cassette.

You ARE talking about linear analog tape. It does have hiss.

ufoclub said:

There's a huge difference in the quality and technology of the Hifi tracks on VHS (note it is nothing like a cassette tape, its an FM type signal mixed into the video track. It also didn't have the hiss associated with linear analog tape like that of pre Hifi VHS or cassette.

"It's analog. But not via the linear audio tracks of the tape. It's a carrier-modulated signal, embedded in the video portion of the signal."

"Both VHS Hi-Fi and Betamax Hi-Fi delivered flat full-range frequency response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB signal-to-noise ratio (in consumer space, second only to the compact disc), dynamic range of 90 dB, and professional audio-grade channel separation (more than 70dB)"

My point exactly. Not perfect, but for the time, one of the best quality, economical options.

silverchild said:

WTF? Hilarious!

silverchild said:

treehouse said:

ufoclub said:

It also didn't have the hiss associated with linear analog tape like that of pre Hifi VHS or cassette.

You ARE talking about linear analog tape. It does have hiss.

You are wrong about it having hiss.

•

Yes, the material vehicle is analog tape (Just like a DAT cassette is analog tape), but, no, the HiFi FM signal imbedded there does not have hiss (just like a DAT signal on tape doesn't have hiss).

•

Just read the last paragraph of this: http://books.google.com/b...mp;f=false

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Just scan through this: http://forums.stevehoffma...at.229056/

•

or this:

http://forums.stevehoffma...pes.37439/

ufoclub said:

You are wrong about it having hiss.

•

You're wrong about life.

Comparing VHS to DAT? No credibility.

Also, fun fact, there's a mono recording on VHS. All VHS.

Know why?

treehouse said:

"VHS Hi-Fi and Betamax Hi-Fi delivered flat full-range frequency response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB signal-to-noise ratio (in consumer space, second only to the compact disc), dynamic range of 90 dB, and professional audio-grade channel separation (more than 70dB). "

Why sidestep the subject?

ufoclub said:

Also, fun fact, there's a mono recording on VHS. All VHS.

Know why?

Why sidestep the subject?

So you don't know the answer, or what the phrase "sidestep" means either? Okay.

Here's a hint...when your Hifi drops out, you get... Mono. The audio switches. From Dropouts.

Look, there are people like you who don't notice the hiss, low level noise/distortion, crackle buzz, static, head switching pulses, but VHS was never a professional or legit archival format. Sorry.

I'd say you have a very high tolerance for audio hiss.

treehouse said:

ufoclub said:

Why sidestep the subject?

So you don't know the answer, or what the phrase "sidestep" means either? Okay.

Here's a hint...when your Hifi drops out, you get... Mono. The audio switches. From Dropouts.

Look, there are people like you who don't notice the hiss, low level noise/distortion, crackle buzz, static, head switching pulses, but VHS was never a professional or legit archival format. Sorry.

I'd say you have a very high tolerance for audio hiss.

Sounds like you're restating and agreeing that linear audio tracks have the typical hiss NOT the HiFi FM signal audio tracks. I'm very well aware of low end humming or static on HiFi if your heads are out of wack. But it's not there if heads are clean and in correct alignment.

•

You are the definition of a sidestepper. Look up the definition. Then look at what you've done on almost every thread when it's pointed out that you are wrong.

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If you're sitting there at your Treehouse studio, google "archiving audio to VHS Hifi". You'll find a world of confirmation that this happened on many, many, audio forums and sites. Here's an example: http://www.audiokarma.org...06989.html

•

No one is claiming VHS HiFi it was a "professional" archival method in the music industry, but it certainly was an archival method with many audiophiles and at home studios. The proof is right there.

ufoclub said:

No one is claiming VHS HiFi it was a "professional" archival method in the music industry, but it certainly was an archival method with many audiophiles and at home studios. The proof is right there.

ufoclub said:

If you're sitting there at your Treehouse studio, google "archiving audio to VHS Hifi". You'll find a world of confirmation that this happened on many, many, audio forums and sites. Here's an example: http://www.audiokarma.org...06989.html

•

No one is claiming VHS HiFi it was a "professional" archival method in the music industry, but it certainly was an archival method with many audiophiles and at home studios. The proof is right there.

Wow, you're a complete fraud. Make up your mind. Are you agreeing that nobody uses as a professional archival method, or are you pulling links out of your ass to pretend it's the audiophile archival method of choice?

.... Any crackpot can call themselves an audiophile because they're a fan of audio. It doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Every format has their crusaders. I can point you towards people running cassette only labels too.

The funny thing is you AGREE that there is low end humming and all that. Heads being out of wack? Like you can control that. Too much cleaner destroys the heads. The Hifi tracks cannot be relied on. You cannot stop your machine from randomely playing from the mono track. Virtually all VHS tape degrades, it's the nature of the medium, and that causes what are known as drop outs.

This is an undeniable fact, no matter if you're a fan of the format or not...and none of your links cotradict that. None of them.

treehouse said:

ufoclub said:

If you're sitting there at your Treehouse studio, google "archiving audio to VHS Hifi". You'll find a world of confirmation that this happened on many, many, audio forums and sites. Here's an example: http://www.audiokarma.org...06989.html

•

No one is claiming VHS HiFi it was a "professional" archival method in the music industry, but it certainly was an archival method with many audiophiles and at home studios. The proof is right there.

Wow, you're a complete fraud. Make up your mind. Are you agreeing that nobody uses as a professional archival method, or are you pulling links out of your ass to pretend it's the audiophile archival method of choice?

.... Any crackpot can call themselves an audiophile because they're a fan of audio. It doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Every format has their crusaders. I can point you towards people running cassette only labels too.

The funny thing is you AGREE that there is low end humming and all that. Heads being out of wack? Like you can control that. Too much cleaner destroys the heads. The Hifi tracks cannot be relied on. You cannot stop your machine from randomely playing from the mono track. Virtually all VHS tape degrades, it's the nature of the medium, and that causes what are known as drop outs.

This is an undeniable fact, no matter if you're a fan of the format or not...and none of your links cotradict that. None of them.

It's a fact that people were using HIFI video as an archival method. Just one google search proves that. I'm sorry you're upset that you're wrong. I didn't create all the proof that comes up with one search.

ufoclub said:

It's a fact that people were using HIFI video as an archival method. Just one google search proves that. I'm sorry you're upset that you're wrong. I didn't create all the proof that comes up with one search.

.

People also snort Aderrall, crushed herbal exctasy, and lickem aid.

I'm not upset by it, I just don't think they should call themselves a chemist or give life advice.