Tittypants said:

jeidee said:

Tittypants said:

When Prince is on some bullshit, people call him out on it. It's that simple.

Btw, there's nothing wrong with any of Bart's criticisms, imo. I'm sure that Bart is honest about his feelings. If Prince really started making some great music again, I believe Bart would be right there to praise it, as we all would.

I personally hope that Prince doesn't read into this forum much though. A lot of the people here have NO clue what they're talking about musically.

.
Say what you want about Prince fans but we have that one common love for something funky. I love to visit this site as the people can be so candid and brutslly honest about many different things on each forum. Folks reinvent left field here and its all in good fun. Don't ever change org

jeidee said:

jeidee said:

.
Say what you want about Prince fans but we have that one common love for something funky. I love to visit this site as the people can be so candid and brutslly honest about many different things on each forum. Folks reinvent left field here and its all in good fun. Don't ever change org

"IDK who Bret is or most of everyone here"
.
Maybe you should start to pay more attention to your fellow fans then! We have all sorts of differing views.

ThomasBjj said:

I also don't think that I post much negativity about Prince. That said... Prince does a lot to provoke negative reaction. Off the top of my head....

Nemerous announced and promoted projects... then cancelled/abandoned.

Crystal Ball cd set pre-order... nuff said

Ripped off by 1-800-New-funk mail order

NPGMC purchases expired DRM

NPGMC club promised cds... botched

LotusFlow3r web site subscription ripoff

Lawsuits against fan sites & Uptown magazine

Lawsuits against fans

Plectrum Electrum... coming soon... for two years

other fan disappointments too numerous to list

I'm a big fan, but he totally deserves most of the criticism he gets.

I agree Prince is a musical genuis,but it's not always easy being a Prince fan.In addition to the (mostly) good music,you have to put up with alot of nonsense.

i think some fans have a negative reaction to the way prince continues to try to maintain ridiculous levels of hype. Everything that comes from the prince camp is some kind of marketing scheme or attempt to maintain the numerous illusions prince fans are supposed to believe. It might work with newer fans or teenagers in the 80s, but I don't care about that stuff anymore. I just want prince to make some good music and play some good shows with other good musicians.

This is why people like Bart are so refreshing to read (in my opinion, at least). If I ask the question, "why hasn't plectrum electrum come out yet?" I don't want to hear some garbage "albums not singles, real music by real musicians, lossless not digital, blah blah blah" non-answer. I'd much rather hear something like, "Still looking for distribution (or whatever), hang on a bit longer."

Militant said:

djThunderfunk said:

Not sure what you mean by that.

Would you like no "negative" opinions to be allowed?

Or, would you shut people down who are engaged in "spirited" debate?

I don't know. Your statement worries me. If this site becomes as sterile as the NPGMC forums it will be usefull only to syncophants who think every sound outta Prince is a "masterpiece".

What "changes" do you have in mind?

There's a lot of stuff that actually isn't either debate or valid criticism, but unwarranted personal flame attacks towards Prince and his bandmembers. I personally find that unacceptable. Frankly, we've lost dozens of great posters because of it. I'm not down with that. I've spoken to several people who would come back if that atmosphere changed.

I'm also not down with nonsensical threads seeking to decry music/albums we haven't even heard. I'll be locking those sorts of threads. People attacking Plectrum just because Prince hasn't released it yet, like he owes it to us. People shitting on the Purple Rain remaster because we haven't had an update on it. It's total nonsense.

Fair enough...

djThunderfunk said:

Militant said:

There's a lot of stuff that actually isn't either debate or valid criticism, but unwarranted personal flame attacks towards Prince and his bandmembers. I personally find that unacceptable. Frankly, we've lost dozens of great posters because of it. I'm not down with that. I've spoken to several people who would come back if that atmosphere changed.

I'm also not down with nonsensical threads seeking to decry music/albums we haven't even heard. I'll be locking those sorts of threads. People attacking Plectrum just because Prince hasn't released it yet, like he owes it to us. People shitting on the Purple Rain remaster because we haven't had an update on it. It's total nonsense.

Fair enough...

Well it's true that if a certain number of people would cut the crap it would probably make this place more attractive for serious researchers and nice folks. Many people here have forgotten the meaning of "I don't like X", replacing it by "X sucks" as if their personal feelings were an objective and universal criteria, this is gross and really low intellectually.

I've also read many insults directed at or his associates that, in my opinion, should have been snipped. If one orger calls another orger names they get snipped but they can call Larry, Bria, Shelbey or Liv whatever they want and get away with it while we perfectly know that many associates come here and read what people write about them. I find it very sad.

I'm all for objective criticism of things that failed such as products ordered and not received or charging 77 bucks for a triple album that's 10 bucks in stores and 8 exclusive videos that one can't even download, or for constructive criticism of music, but the weekly "Let's face it, is over and done" thread and insults towards his musicians is something I could do without.

Militant said:

SaraWright10 said:

Also, I was reading a book review on amazon where someone had mentioned this site and said this is not a fan site at all... Just basically a prince hate site...

It's funny because I had a private conversation with Cat (Glover) and she said exactly the same thing.... that it seems like a hate site rather than a fan site.

I agree with OP - there's too much of a negative vibe here and I plan on changing that. The interesting thing is, it's a small but vocal minority of people creating that vibe.

I think it's a shame that a few people can make such a strong impression for this site. I know not everyone likes everything he does that isn't realistic.. but some people do take it overboard.. I completely agree with what you're saying.

Anotherlova4Nessa said:

SaraWright10 said:

Also, I was reading a book review on amazon where someone had mentioned this site and said this is not a fan site at all... Just basically a prince hate site...

^^^ Now thats just sad. "PRINCE.ORG ONLINE HATE COMMUNITY" THAT IT WAS IT HAS BEEN ALL ALONG.

I'm at work right now but when I get home I'll try to find that review and post it on here.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

Fair enough...

Well it's true that if a certain number of people would cut the crap it would probably make this place more attractive for serious researchers and nice folks. Many people here have forgotten the meaning of "I don't like X", replacing it by "X sucks" as if their personal feelings were an objective and universal criteria, this is gross and really low intellectually.

I've also read many insults directed at or his associates that, in my opinion, should have been snipped. If one orger calls another orger names they get snipped but they can call Larry, Bria, Shelbey or Liv whatever they want and get away with it while we perfectly know that many associates come here and read what people write about them. I find it very sad.

I'm all for objective criticism of things that failed such as products ordered and not received or charging 77 bucks for a triple album that's 10 bucks in stores and 8 exclusive videos that one can't even download, or for constructive criticism of music, but the weekly "Let's face it, is over and done" thread and insults towards his musicians is something I could do without.

I have said this on more than one occasion: we don't get to flame each other but Prince and associates get called anything but a child of God. I never understood that.

I would be all for pinned threads: one to praise Prince. One to bash him. One to bash the bashers. One for pictures. We keep rehashing the same things over and over again.

Stymie said:

I would be all for pinned threads: one to praise Prince. One to bash him. One to bash the bashers. One for pictures. We keep rehashing the same things over and over again.

Stymie said:

databank said:

Well it's true that if a certain number of people would cut the crap it would probably make this place more attractive for serious researchers and nice folks. Many people here have forgotten the meaning of "I don't like X", replacing it by "X sucks" as if their personal feelings were an objective and universal criteria, this is gross and really low intellectually.

I've also read many insults directed at or his associates that, in my opinion, should have been snipped. If one orger calls another orger names they get snipped but they can call Larry, Bria, Shelbey or Liv whatever they want and get away with it while we perfectly know that many associates come here and read what people write about them. I find it very sad.

I'm all for objective criticism of things that failed such as products ordered and not received or charging 77 bucks for a triple album that's 10 bucks in stores and 8 exclusive videos that one can't even download, or for constructive criticism of music, but the weekly "Let's face it, is over and done" thread and insults towards his musicians is something I could do without.

I have said this on more than one occasion: we don't get to flame each other but Prince and associates get called anything but a child of God. I never understood that.

Well, you CAN be a bully and call other posters idiots, synchophants and the like all you want. At least, that's what BartVanHemelen does - and gets away with it.

RodeoSchro said:

Stymie said:

I have said this on more than one occasion: we don't get to flame each other but Prince and associates get called anything but a child of God. I never understood that.

Well, you CAN be a bully and call other posters idiots, synchophants and the like all you want. At least, that's what BartVanHemelen does - and gets away with it.

To Stymie:

.

When you become a public figure, you gotta deal with being a public figure. Thats how I can say something Larry Graham is a talented bass player and a musical legend, but he tainted if not ruined a great chunk of P's career output with all that hocus pocus door knocking nonsense. Agree or disagree - who cares? Its an opinion-based forum. If Cat or Tevin or Wendy & Lisa are uptight because people see things and comment about them... they should be happy folks are at least thinking of them. WYA CAT? If you can't take the heat, go eat some antipasto.

.

To RodeoSchro:

.

When you see BartVanHemelen or his icon, push the "down" arrow until it disappears. Or the "Back" button on your browser to find another topic. Crisis averted. Or you could ignore. Or you could have an Old West shootout that ends in a stand off. "There's only room for one salty, bitter ol' Prince fan round these here parts...."

RodeoSchro said:

jeidee said:

RodeoSchro said:

Well, you CAN be a bully and call other posters idiots, synchophants and the like all you want. At least, that's what BartVanHemelen does - and gets away with it.

To Stymie:

.

When you become a public figure, you gotta deal with being a public figure. Thats how I can say something Larry Graham is a talented bass player and a musical legend, but he tainted if not ruined a great chunk of P's career output with all that hocus pocus door knocking nonsense. Agree or disagree - who cares? Its an opinion-based forum. If Cat or Tevin or Wendy & Lisa are uptight because people see things and comment about them... they should be happy folks are at least thinking of them. WYA CAT? If you can't take the heat, go eat some antipasto.

.

To RodeoSchro:

.

When you see BartVanHemelen or his icon, push the "down" arrow until it disappears. Or the "Back" button on your browser to find another topic. Crisis averted. Or you could ignore. Or you could have an Old West shootout that ends in a stand off. "There's only room for one salty, bitter ol' Prince fan round these here parts...."

I have no problem with the discussion. The problem I have is the name-calling.

jeidee said:

RodeoSchro said:

Well, you CAN be a bully and call other posters idiots, synchophants and the like all you want. At least, that's what BartVanHemelen does - and gets away with it.

To Stymie:

.

When you become a public figure, you gotta deal with being a public figure. Thats how I can say something Larry Graham is a talented bass player and a musical legend, but he tainted if not ruined a great chunk of P's career output with all that hocus pocus door knocking nonsense. Agree or disagree - who cares? Its an opinion-based forum. If Cat or Tevin or Wendy & Lisa are uptight because people see things and comment about them... they should be happy folks are at least thinking of them. WYA CAT? If you can't take the heat, go eat some antipasto.

.

To RodeoSchro:

.

When you see BartVanHemelen or his icon, push the "down" arrow until it disappears. Or the "Back" button on your browser to find another topic. Crisis averted. Or you could ignore. Or you could have an Old West shootout that ends in a stand off. "There's only room for one salty, bitter ol' Prince fan round these here parts...."

I so totally disagree with that part. Just because your job makes you famous doesn't make it any less of a job and just because u get lucky enough to make a living with your passion doesn't make you less of a human being. Famous people are still just that: people. They deserve just as much respect as anyone else. I've heard this argument before here: "oh but they're famous so they deserve all the shit if we're not happy". This is sheer nonsense. Many celebrities have been broken to pieces by negative backlash from critics or the sheer pressure of public attention. It's not like u can have your cake and eat it too: if you become successful enough as an artist u get famous, period. Bankers, bakers or teachers can be as good as they want at what they do, they don't get famous, artists do. I'm quite sure some would rather be very successful in terms of money and career and still be left alone. I could actually name a few who stated this or did a lot in order to protect their privacy, but it only works to a certain extent. + some people in 's bands never even tried to have a solo career on their own, they're just professional musicians who got lucky enough to get a gig with a famous musician and are happy with it (even though some may release a song or an album on their own every once in a while doesn't mean they're after being stars, I doubt Rhonda ever recorded her 2 solo albums for anything but the fun of doing her own thing every once in a while, that's not how she pays her rent).

SaraWright10 said:

Militant said:

It's funny because I had a private conversation with Cat (Glover) and she said exactly the same thing.... that it seems like a hate site rather than a fan site.

I agree with OP - there's too much of a negative vibe here and I plan on changing that. The interesting thing is, it's a small but vocal minority of people creating that vibe.

I think it's a shame that a few people can make such a strong impression for this site. I know not everyone likes everything he does that isn't realistic.. but some people do take it overboard.. I completely agree with what you're saying.

Well it's often said that we've lost valuable orgers such as Boris but it's very possible indeed that some ex associates would come here all the time if they didn't read so much nonsense here. I remember not so long ago when MBN commented on how sad it was that a thread about horns became a circus where people would call Shelbey and Liv (people he probably knows and appreciate in real life) "monkeys"! MBN is cool enough to keep posting when horns are concerned, but how many others ran away when they read how disrespectful people can be here? Remember how Robin Power was treated when she came here?

..

[Edited 7/14/14 11:46am]

databank said:

jeidee said:

To Stymie:

.

When you become a public figure, you gotta deal with being a public figure. Thats how I can say something Larry Graham is a talented bass player and a musical legend, but he tainted if not ruined a great chunk of P's career output with all that hocus pocus door knocking nonsense. Agree or disagree - who cares? Its an opinion-based forum. If Cat or Tevin or Wendy & Lisa are uptight because people see things and comment about them... they should be happy folks are at least thinking of them. WYA CAT? If you can't take the heat, go eat some antipasto.

.

To RodeoSchro:

.

When you see BartVanHemelen or his icon, push the "down" arrow until it disappears. Or the "Back" button on your browser to find another topic. Crisis averted. Or you could ignore. Or you could have an Old West shootout that ends in a stand off. "There's only room for one salty, bitter ol' Prince fan round these here parts...."

I so totally disagree with that part. Just because your job makes you famous doesn't make it any less of a job and just because u get lucky enough to make a living with your passion doesn't make you less of a human being. Famous people are still just that: people. They deserve just as much respect as anyone else. I've heard this argument before here: "oh but they're famous so they deserve all the shit if we're not happy". This is sheer nonsense. Many celebrities have been broken to pieces by negative backlash from critics or the sheer pressure of public attention. It's not like u can have your cake and eat it too: if you become successful enough as an artist u get famous, period. Bankers, bakers or teachers can be as good as they want at what they do, they don't get famous, artists do. I'm quite sure some would rather be very successful in terms of money and career and still be left alone. I could actually name a few who stated this or did a lot in order to protect their privacy, but it only works to a certain extent. + some people in 's bands never even tried to have a solo career on their own, they're just professional musicians who got lucky enough to get a gig with a famous musician and are happy with it (even though some may release a song or an album on their own every once in a while doesn't mean they're after being stars, I doubt Rhonda ever recorded her 2 solo albums for anything but the fun of doing her own thing every once in a while, that's not how she pays her rent).

That's the price of fame: you lose your privacy and people talk about you (good or bad).If a person can't handle that,the entertainment world is not a wise career choice for them

SaraWright10 said:

Stymie said:

I would be all for pinned threads: one to praise Prince. One to bash him. One to bash the bashers. One for pictures. We keep rehashing the same things over and over again.

I'm all for it too, some threads come back so often for saying nothing new that we'd rather have permanent stickies like the MJ one in non-.

On top of my head:

- is over and done and his new music sucks.

- is the greatest/most prolific musician of all time.

Those last 2 r absurd because objectively both statements are nonsense, but nonetheless the topics come back every week or so, so they should just have a permanent thread each where people could debate this till the end of time...

- Choose songs for a CD for non-fans.

- New fan here, which albums should I get next?

These last 2 are cool but comes back so often that a pair of stickies would do as well.

And I'm sure there r quite a few other topics that keep coming back every coupla weeks!

jeidee said:

RodeoSchro said:

Well, you CAN be a bully and call other posters idiots, synchophants and the like all you want. At least, that's what BartVanHemelen does - and gets away with it.

To Stymie:

.

When you become a public figure, you gotta deal with being a public figure. Thats how I can say something Larry Graham is a talented bass player and a musical legend, but he tainted if not ruined a great chunk of P's career output with all that hocus pocus door knocking nonsense. Agree or disagree - who cares? Its an opinion-based forum. If Cat or Tevin or Wendy & Lisa are uptight because people see things and comment about them... they should be happy folks are at least thinking of them. WYA CAT? If you can't take the heat, go eat some antipasto.

.

To RodeoSchro:

.

When you see BartVanHemelen or his icon, push the "down" arrow until it disappears. Or the "Back" button on your browser to find another topic. Crisis averted. Or you could ignore. Or you could have an Old West shootout that ends in a stand off. "There's only room for one salty, bitter ol' Prince fan round these here parts...."

LOL, I like your last option. Set it up!

Can I just say, to the people that are on the same page with me regarding this : databank, Stymie, Sara, Rodeo........

When you see a post attacking/flaming Prince or an associate of his, can you guys please report the post? I can't be everywhere at once, but when stuff gets reported, we mods get emailed straight away and it can be dealt with.

I will start issuing strikes to these people, and bans if the behaviour continues. Maybe it's not in the rules, maybe it hasn't been addressed properly in the past, but whatever it is, it's gotten seriously out of hand, and it seems that all the level headed members of the board agree with me that it's simply unacceptable.

Suddenly "Militant" becomes more than a clever nick..

.

I love Prince and all of his great friends over the years. They're so lovely and talented, each blessed and sacred in their own right. And none of them have aged a bit! I don't need a remastered Purple Rain, I love my old CD so much. Who would waste a classic album like that on their headphones?

.

Plectrum Electrum never needs to be released. Simply knowing it exists makes me feel so warm and fuzzy. Once I heard a version of Alphabet Street where the DJ removed the Cat rap, and I told him... "God is gonna get you for that one. Love Yourself."

SoulAlive said:

That's the price of fame: you lose your privacy and people talk about you (good or bad).If a person can't handle that,the entertainment world is not a wise career choice for them

This is an interesting topic. It presents a question that I believe, as time as progressed, has become very tricky to answer.

Prince is an artist (that is, a creative person whose primary motive is self-expression). As it happens, he has chosen to make his passion the medium for his profession, which is "entertainer". Notice I didn't say that his profession is "artist". An artist does not have to make his/her art their profession. They can get any job they want to maintain their lifestyle; the fact that they drive a bus for a living doesn't make their art less credible. If Prince's "art" didn't entertain anyone, he'd have to seek out an alternate means of employment. On the other hand, I personally know plenty of professional entertainers who are not famous at all. Would you say there is a different set of rules for them because - through no action or inaction on their part - they did not become famous?

As a side effect of his job (again, professional entertainer), Prince has become famous - something which, for all we know, he may not have exactly intended. I'm not suggesting that he did not wish to become known, but it's difficult to imagine anyone (but especially a personality like Prince) longing for the day in which he could not walk down the street without being mobbed, wear a particular pair of pants without being ridiculed, or release a new album without being encouraged to give up. As an excuse to perpetuate this very behavior, the public (including us "fans") have rationalized that he's famous so that's the way it goes. All bets are off because he drew the short straw and lost his right to respect and/or privacy.

Fame, in/of itself, is interesting. After all, anyone can become famous (particularly these days when it's as easy to end up on the homepage of Wonderwall.com as it is to accidently step in a pile of dog shit on the curb). For some, fame is their sole motivation for action, and their pursuit of it causes them to do things Prince has never done or (at the risk of projecting personal thought) presumably would even dream of doing. All this leads me to think that our collective rationale for dimissing any notions of empathy for someone in his position may be more than a bit flawed.

Sorry for my longwindedness. The concept of respect/privacy for the notorious is fascinating to me is all.

[Edited 7/14/14 15:09pm]

I visited a Mariah Carey fan site recently where her hardcore fans/lambs were ripping her to shreds over the lack of promotion behind her new flop album and her choice of a manager.


Regarding Prince, I will always be a fan because there's something utterly fascinating about his creative genius and staying power, but his litigiousness, and longstanding animosity toward fans really gives me pause sometimes.

PRINCE.ORG : A COMMUNITY FOR PEOPLE WITH A PRINCE FIXATION, WHATEVER IT IS

hopefularranger said:

SoulAlive said:

That's the price of fame: you lose your privacy and people talk about you (good or bad).If a person can't handle that,the entertainment world is not a wise career choice for them

This is an interesting topic. It presents a question that I believe, as time as progressed, has become very tricky to answer.

Prince is an artist (that is, a creative person whose primary motive is self-expression). As it happens, he has chosen to make his passion the medium for his profession, which is "entertainer". Notice I didn't say that his profession is "artist". An artist does not have to make his/her art their profession. They can get any job they want to maintain their lifestyle; the fact that they drive a bus for a living doesn't make their art less credible. If Prince's "art" didn't entertain anyone, he'd have to seek out an alternate means of employment. On the other hand, I personally know plenty of professional entertainers who are not famous at all. Would you say there is a different set of rules for them because - through no action or inaction on their part - they did not become famous?

As a side effect of his job (again, professional entertainer), Prince has become famous - something which, for all we know, he may not have exactly intended. I'm not suggesting that he did not wish to become known, but it's difficult to imagine anyone (but especially a personality like Prince) longing for the day in which he could not walk down the street without being mobbed, wear a particular pair of pants without being ridiculed, or release a new album without being encouraged to give up. As an excuse to perpetuate this very behavior, the public (including us "fans") have rationalized that he's famous so that's the way it goes. All bets are off because he drew the short straw and lost his right to respect and/or privacy.

Fame, in/of itself, is interesting. After all, anyone can become famous (particularly these days when it's as easy to end up on the homepage of Wonderwall.com as it is to accidently step in a pile of dog shit on the curb). For some, fame is their sole motivation for action, and their pursuit of it causes them to do things Prince has never done or (at the risk of projecting personal thought) presumably would even dream of doing. All this leads me to think that our collective rationale for dimissing any notions of empathy for someone in his position may be more than a bit flawed.

Sorry for my longwindedness. The concept of respect/privacy for the notorious is fascinating to me is all.

I get what you're saying I didn't say that celebrities don't deserve "respect".They certainly do.

but,when a person becomes famous,they lose their privacy.People are gonna comment on them,good or bad.It might be unfair,but famous people can't have it both ways.They want fame,so they must deal with everything that comes with it.I say,as long as people are talking about you at all,you're doing something right.When they stop talking about you,that's when your fame is over

Just for fun,I recently visited a Mariah fansite too.Her fans are PISSED right now They're having a breakdown over her new flop album.I gotta admit,it's kinda entertaining to see them behave this way.I can't believe how so many fans get bent out of shape when one of their favorite artists have a flop album,lol.

Identity said:

I visited a Mariah Carey fan site recently where her hardcore fans/lambs were ripping her to shreds over the lack of promotion behind her new flop album and her choice of a manager.