Hi,

i'm not sure i understand the hype about the upcoming remasters (PR, SOTT,SOTT movie).First, i don't think any of P's previous albums need to be remastered, sonically they sound good for me.Second, even if remastering indeed is "improving" the sound a little bit, so what ? Isn't it like the music is still 100% the same? Wouldn't it only make a (sonic) difference only in case you listen to the remastered versions on a high end system anyway ?

Or is it like the SOTT Deluxe version and the remastered PR come with bonus tracks, special edits, previous unreleased material etc ?

That's the only reason i can think of why i might be interested, other than that i don't get the hype.

beatz01 said:

I think most of the excitement is around the idea of there being unreleased material.

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Sonically, Purple Rain didn't sound great on CD. It lost something even from listening to a cassette, and in a world of mp3's, the little details, and brightness of a recording makes a big, big difference. The CD kind of makes everything sound like it's filtered through a toy. That's easily improved.

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Most listeners aren't audiophiles though, so yeah, I think it's become kind of a "thing" after all these years, and long time fans don't even have a reason to want it, they just want it.

Yep, basically they will pop on a good sound system, and there's the nice packaging and possible bonus shit with hopes of unheard tracks, or great copies of known bootleg tracks.

all the 80's cds sound terrible.....they sound flat, very-low and extremley muddeled especially SOTT and Lovesexy....

Optimus2 said:

all the 80's cds sound terrible.....they sound flat, very-low and extremley muddeled especially SOTT and Lovesexy....

I actually prefer the low volume of those early CD's as it's much preferred to me than "brickwalling" that modern CD's have, but yes the mixing or whatever could use a touch up, as long as they don't just "brickwall" it. I hate that shit.

I don't understand why people can't just turn up low volume CD's LOL but whatever.....

thesexofit said:

Optimus2 said:

all the 80's cds sound terrible.....they sound flat, very-low and extremley muddeled especially SOTT and Lovesexy....

I actually prefer the low volume of those early CD's as it's much preferred to me than "brickwalling" that modern CD's have, but yes the mixing or whatever could use a touch up, as long as they don't just "brickwall" it. I hate that shit.

I don't understand why people can't just turn up low volume CD's LOL but whatever.....

no i mean its not sharp the sound....i wanna hear every instrument twang and thump...and i do turn it up loud...but loudness dosent mean clarity as in "clear" as in crisp......especially lovesexy it sounds fucking awfull...infact i couldnt make out certain lyrics...had 2 read the lyrics on certain verses....which I shouldnt have 2!!!...and i havent listened 2 that cd in over 2 years because of it!

I don't really care 4 the remasters of both albums and b-sides/versions because even though I won't complain about improved sound quality the quality I have didn't prevent me from enjoying those songs all those years.

What's really interesting is the previously unreleased material. We're been asking 4 2 open the vault 4 years so I think the prospect of him doing it, even if it's only a few tracks per album, is quite "special" to us.

Also, I wouldn't mind having all the non-album tracks with a similar sound level/quality as opposed to the files I have which were ripped from various sources (CD, LP, etc.).

I guess the honest answer is we don't know for sure yet but can compare to other remasters by other artists. The reason for the "hype" is that this is a prince fan forum.

The most exciting thing about the remasters will be watching the org go into melt down about what could have been included and how it was such a missed opportunity. Honestly, why would we expect the remasters to be any different to anything else Prince announces.

Just another tale of, 'what if', waiting to unfold.

TheEnglishGent said:

Hey, if he didn't want us to have such high expectations he shouldn't have released so much good music.

TheEnglishGent said:

The most exciting thing about the remasters will be watching the org go into melt down about what could have been included and how it was such a missed opportunity. Honestly, why would we expect the remasters to be any different to anything else Prince announces.

Just another tale of, 'what if', waiting to unfold.

The difference in quality is the main thing, it will be a massive improvement on the originals.

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My advise though for anyone who will be buying a digital copy when they are eventually released, is AVOID iTunes, they only offer 256kbps quality, which they consider a good Quality to Size ratio, when in fact High quality should be 320kbps minimum then WAV-Flac. Alot wont notice the difference but if you have good quality monitors/speakers you can hear it slightly. Really frustrates me they dont offer the option to download in either in these. (Unless they do now and I dont know about it?)

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The next thing as already mentioned would be the bonus material, if done right could be some pretty tasty tracks thrown in

Prince's CD releases from the 1980s do not sound good. I'm not usually interested in enhanced bass, but there's very little low energy present on releases like 1999, Parade and Sign "O" The Times. If they sound good to you it's probably because your speakers (and / or amp) have hyped bass response, but on most people's sound systems that is not the case. I remember they sounded just fine in the 1980s style stereos that I used to have back in the day, but the contemporary sound systems have an overall sound that is quite different and Prince's stuff on those old CDs unfortunately don't really cut it anymore.

A little bit of "brickwalling" in the case of the Linn snares that are a bit too loud and harsh sounding for contemporary sound systems wouldn't hurt, but too much could change the overall feel of the tracks too much. The volume levels need to be brought up by quite a bit in any case.

Optimus2 said:

all the 80's cds sound terrible.....they sound flat, very-low and extremley muddeled especially SOTT and Lovesexy....

I agree! If the music sounds flat, low and muddled at the same time, we have a problem. People often think that mastering is the same as clipping, over compressing and "flattening" the sound. That's not the case. It's just something that happens because of the loudness war, when everyone tries to sound the loudest. The purpose of smart mastering is for the music to sound louder, but also clearer and more tightened. It's all about shaping the overall sound.

Music can look flat on waveform analyzer, yet sound dynamic. Dynamic is the difference between low and high volume. But how we perceive it is something else than the actual facts. During mastering, the engineer will do what he can do give us the illusion of dynamics, if they are needed. That's not the hardest thing to do with dance music, funk, rock etc... but with jazz and classical music this would be a bigger problem. I'd much rather hear something with a little bit controlled dynamics, than something that just sounds low, muddled and flat like you said.

I hope the mastering is tasty, not brickwalled to the extreme, but controlled dynamics, more open and detailed sound, as well as fuller drums.

The Linn kick is a bit problematic though. It can easily change its character when you add more bass to it. Once you start boosting the bass in the mixes in overall it's hard to see how they can preserve the exactly right character (yeah, I know it's done with EQ and compression, but how well they can pull off things like that is a different question). I think many here that have done recordings on their own and used LM-1 samples recognize this issue.

Another potential problem are the 80s style snares that have tons of reverb on them - one you use a limiter on the mixes it can easily end up sounding like the snares would have even more reverb on them. More of a potential problem on PR / ATWIAD than on SOTT or the later albums though.

novabrkr said:

The Linn kick is a bit problematic though. It can easily change its character when you add more bass to it. Once you start boosting the bass in the mixes in overall it's hard to see how they can preserve the exactly right character (yeah, I know it's done with EQ and compression, but how well they can pull off things like that is a different question). I think many here that have done recordings on their own and used LM-1 samples recognize this issue.

Another potential problem are the 80s style snares that have tons of reverb on them - one you use a limiter on the mixes it can easily end up sounding like the snares would have even more reverb on them. More of a potential problem on PR / ATWIAD than on SOTT or the later albums though.

That's why you use a multiband compressor. This tool can be used to control certain frequencies, as well as focusing on the attack of percussive instruments. It can bring out the pop, snap etc of each instrument, yet stay more or less neutral when it comes to more "flat" sounds like the reeverb, breath, and subtle sounds that are in between. I know the problem that you are talking about. I don't do professional mastering, but I often use some sort of compressor settings on the whole mix trying to glue it together, and I've experienced the problem that you're talking about. But the best engineers know how to do it. They probably can't make it sound like it was made in 2014. However, that's not the purpose. They should make it more suitable for playing with modern equipment, and still not f%&$ up the sound. D'Angelo Voodo is in my opinion an album that sounds great, dynamic, organic, alive and loud enough without sounding flat.

I wonder if Prince will be in the studio to help with the remaster giving his opinion and what not? For some reason, I hope not I reckon Prince would be like 'compress everything. It needes to be really loud and bassy'

When the albums were mastered, they were intended for vinyl and not digital. The way a record produces sound waves created a bass that is missing in the digital versions. Also, more modern tracks are louder as you could only go so loud before the track skipped off the groove on the record.

beatz01 said:

Hi,

i'm not sure i understand the hype about the upcoming remasters (PR, SOTT,SOTT movie).First, i don't think any of P's previous albums need to be remastered, sonically they sound good for me.Second, even if remastering indeed is "improving" the sound a little bit, so what ? Isn't it like the music is still 100% the same? Wouldn't it only make a (sonic) difference only in case you listen to the remastered versions on a high end system anyway ?

Or is it like the SOTT Deluxe version and the remastered PR come with bonus tracks, special edits, previous unreleased material etc ?

That's the only reason i can think of why i might be interested, other than that i don't get the hype.

Just listen to the Black Album on Volume 7, and then listen to Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown on Volume 2. You will see that Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown is at least 4,000 times louder on a lower volume. A perfect example of how some older music is WAY too quiet, and some newer music is WAY TOO LOUD. A perfect answer would be to strive for perfection, but bad engineering and the stupid "loudness wars" have

made that less and less likely.

[Edited 6/20/14 10:29am]

stillwaiting said:

beatz01 said:

Hi,

i'm not sure i understand the hype about the upcoming remasters (PR, SOTT,SOTT movie).First, i don't think any of P's previous albums need to be remastered, sonically they sound good for me.Second, even if remastering indeed is "improving" the sound a little bit, so what ? Isn't it like the music is still 100% the same? Wouldn't it only make a (sonic) difference only in case you listen to the remastered versions on a high end system anyway ?

Or is it like the SOTT Deluxe version and the remastered PR come with bonus tracks, special edits, previous unreleased material etc ?

That's the only reason i can think of why i might be interested, other than that i don't get the hype.

Just listen to the Black Album on Volume 7, and then listen to Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown on Volume 2. You will see that Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown is at least 4,000 times louder on a lower volume. A perfect example of how some older music is WAY too quiet, and some newer music is WAY TOO LOUD. A perfect answer would be to strive for perfection, but bad engineering and the stupid "loudness wars" have

made that less and less likely.

[Edited 6/20/14 10:29am]

The Black Album might be the worst sounding all the Prince CD's. I've heard bootleg CD's sourced from the original vinyl that had more snap and life but those were pseudo remastered through multiband compressors. I also have the official vinyl re-release of the Black Album, and even that sounds dull in tone. It's very mid range heavy, diminished highs and lows.

ufoclub said:

stillwaiting said:

Just listen to the Black Album on Volume 7, and then listen to Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown on Volume 2. You will see that Fallinlove2nite or The Breakdown is at least 4,000 times louder on a lower volume. A perfect example of how some older music is WAY too quiet, and some newer music is WAY TOO LOUD. A perfect answer would be to strive for perfection, but bad engineering and the stupid "loudness wars" have

made that less and less likely.

[Edited 6/20/14 10:29am]

The Black Album might be the worst sounding all the Prince CD's. I've heard bootleg CD's sourced from the original vinyl that had more snap and life but those were pseudo remastered through multiband compressors. I also have the official vinyl re-release of the Black Album, and even that sounds dull in tone. It's very mid range heavy, diminished highs and lows.

I think the Black CD was mastered by "Bob's Mastering." Warners thought it was Bob Ludwig, but it just turned out to be some intern at Dairly Queen named Bob. He could make a mean Sundae though.

stillwaiting said:

ufoclub said:

The Black Album might be the worst sounding all the Prince CD's. I've heard bootleg CD's sourced from the original vinyl that had more snap and life but those were pseudo remastered through multiband compressors. I also have the official vinyl re-release of the Black Album, and even that sounds dull in tone. It's very mid range heavy, diminished highs and lows.

I think the Black CD was mastered by "Bob's Mastering." Warners thought it was Bob Ludwig, but it just turned out to be some intern at Dairly Queen named Bob. He could make a mean Sundae though.

Bob, Aint that a bitch?

Something new from our purple friend always makes me happy. There's always the prospect of a few gems or more.

Even if there were no bonus tracks, I'd still be lining up to buy these (assuming they're done right). His 80s albums on cd, currently, sound like a fart in a jar (particularly the Black Album).