paulludvig said:

NouveauDance said:

Nay, nay.

Just put all the Dream Factory, Camille, Crystal Ball tracks on as extras and call it a day. No need to have 2LPs worth of songs twice in one set.

Wouldn't mix Dream Factory and SOTT. SOTT ended up as a solo project by Prince and should remain so. Releasing songs that only appeared on various DF configuration as extras on SOTT would create the impression that SOTT was a Revolution project. Which it wasn't. Different with Crystal Ball. That album was a Prince solo album, just like SOTT, only bigger and better.

It's funny how people are under the impression that there's a difference between a "Prince" album and a "Prince And The Revolution" album. Most of the songs on the last config of DF were solo efforts by , so were most of the songs on Parade and ATWIAD and a good half of PR.

databank said:

paulludvig said:

Wouldn't mix Dream Factory and SOTT. SOTT ended up as a solo project by Prince and should remain so. Releasing songs that only appeared on various DF configuration as extras on SOTT would create the impression that SOTT was a Revolution project. Which it wasn't. Different with Crystal Ball. That album was a Prince solo album, just like SOTT, only bigger and better.

It's funny how people are under the impression that there's a difference between a "Prince" album and a "Prince And The Revolution" album. Most of the songs on the last config of DF were solo efforts by , so were most of the songs on Parade and ATWIAD and a good half of PR.

Very true! Though I bet more than we think of PR were solo efforts as well. The live versions from First Avenue were used as a starting point, but I'm pretty sure Prince overdubbed most of it.

ricockulous.....so many outakes from the era ....why bother with that

databank said:

Optimus2 said:

u know its funny 4 years ive been listening 2 a fan edit of that soing that goes on for 3.45 mins......and there was me thinkingt that it was the orginal version....it basically edits out all the instrumental bit in the middle..when i found out i was pissed!!! ha

HA! Every time I tell those people who edite Tony M out of songs and do things like that "do it 4 ur own pleasure but please don't share them online or they may get confused with the real deal by some folks and possibly even become more shared than it at some point", they tell me "no, no, don't worry, people will know it's a fan edit, and we'll specify it on the file's name and no one would be as malicious as to erase that from the title, bla bla bla". U r the living proof that this is all BS and that fan edits shouldn't b shared online, at all.

ANYTHING that edits out Tony M should be praised. And fan edits are fine. I don't care for most of them, but could care less if people share them. This is the internet, things get shared. I don't need some elitist attitude about what is shared and what is done for personal use. Most people who can't tell the difference between fan edits/remasters and the real thing usually don't care.

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

HA! Every time I tell those people who edite Tony M out of songs and do things like that "do it 4 ur own pleasure but please don't share them online or they may get confused with the real deal by some folks and possibly even become more shared than it at some point", they tell me "no, no, don't worry, people will know it's a fan edit, and we'll specify it on the file's name and no one would be as malicious as to erase that from the title, bla bla bla". U r the living proof that this is all BS and that fan edits shouldn't b shared online, at all.

ANYTHING that edits out Tony M should be praised. And fan edits are fine. I don't care for most of them, but could care less if people share them. This is the internet, things get shared. I don't need some elitist attitude about what is shared and what is done for personal use. Most people who can't tell the difference between fan edits/remasters and the real thing usually don't care.

I'm all 4 elitism

databank said:

Optimus2 said:

u know its funny 4 years ive been listening 2 a fan edit of that soing that goes on for 3.45 mins......and there was me thinkingt that it was the orginal version....it basically edits out all the instrumental bit in the middle..when i found out i was pissed!!! ha

HA! Every time I tell those people who edite Tony M out of songs and do things like that "do it 4 ur own pleasure but please don't share them online or they may get confused with the real deal by some folks and possibly even become more shared than it at some point", they tell me "no, no, don't worry, people will know it's a fan edit, and we'll specify it on the file's name and no one would be as malicious as to erase that from the title, bla bla bla". U r the living proof that this is all BS and that fan edits shouldn't b shared online, at all.

ANO!!.....that deep speaking voice in the instrumental part...a part of which was used in the end of Acknowledge Me (i think).....that wasnt init aswell!....after this line "Just fun, nothing ethereal" its goes lalalalalalala then we'll travel 2nite in all my dreams..then the end chorus!!!...CUNTS!!!

paulludvig said:

NouveauDance said:

Nay, nay.

Just put all the Dream Factory, Camille, Crystal Ball tracks on as extras and call it a day. No need to have 2LPs worth of songs twice in one set.

Wouldn't mix Dream Factory and SOTT. SOTT ended up as a solo project by Prince and should remain so. Releasing songs that only appeared on various DF configuration as extras on SOTT would create the impression that SOTT was a Revolution project. Which it wasn't. Different with Crystal Ball. That album was a Prince solo album, just like SOTT, only bigger and better.

People don't even know what these projects are outside the hardcore, so there's going to be no confusion. Fact is, they're all linked regardless of whether "... and the Revolution" was set to appear on the LPs spine or not.

paulludvig said:

Nay to #1 but yes to #2.

Optimus2 said:

EddieC said:

I know it existed. But does it still exist, or would it be a rebuilding from whatever remains? I want real released versions of all the songs, but unless they can give us the original sequence with all the fades and segues that one assumes were part of the album as submitted, then I'd prefer just to receive the individual tracks. Only go the full This Is Crystal Ball route if it actually is Crystal Ball.

I hate to get off topic, but someone else already mentioned Camille (which is part of the history of Sign, just as much as Crystal Ball was), so what about Dream Factory? Maybe not as easy to justify, but wouldn't it be nice to have those songs in their original home (or, in a few cases, original form or even any form officially).

I know, Crystal Ball is probably the most likely "unreleased album," but I'd like every variant he put together from this stage. I've got the fan-assembled versions, but I want to hear exactly how he put them together.

Actually (as I come back to add this)--the more I think about it, I think I might prefer Dream Factory. We've gotten almost all the songs officially from Crystal Ball, but there are more tracks that haven't been released from Dream Factory--and would give another chance to get All My Dreams out there if they don't release it with Parade.

[Edited 6/15/14 20:49pm]

u know its funny 4 years ive been listening 2 a fan edit of that soing that goes on for 3.45 mins......and there was me thinkingt that it was the orginal version....it basically edits out all the instrumental bit in the middle..when i found out i was pissed!!! ha

I'm so sorry for you. And why on earth did they do that anyway?

It'll never happen, so who cares?

EddieC said:

Optimus2 said:

u know its funny 4 years ive been listening 2 a fan edit of that soing that goes on for 3.45 mins......and there was me thinkingt that it was the orginal version....it basically edits out all the instrumental bit in the middle..when i found out i was pissed!!! ha

I'm so sorry for you. And why on earth did they do that anyway?

i dunno i just downloaded it off an mp3 site....sum fan musnt like intsrumental parts of songs...i decided 2 edit it out..then share it on a sharing site...4ort it was the original version as I just typed "All My Dreams -prince".......and that was the only 1 that came up..it was only when i gt Dream Factory off ebay....did i reliase it wasnt teh original

Interesting topic. I'll have to think about it and get back to you later on it.

I would welcome the release of the old configurations, but not at the expense of more ureleased tracks or remixes. It depends how big the set would be. Commercially, I doubt it makes sense. As someone says, making them online downloads could work.

The original album should be squeezed onto 1 disk, but my gut feel is any remaster will be a two disc set, with the extra tracks making up the space.

bigd74 said:

paulludvig said:

Wouldn't mix Dream Factory and SOTT. SOTT ended up as a solo project by Prince and should remain so. Releasing songs that only appeared on various DF configuration as extras on SOTT would create the impression that SOTT was a Revolution project. Which it wasn't. Different with Crystal Ball. That album was a Prince solo album, just like SOTT, only bigger and better.

How much Revolution stuff was really on Dream Factory? Most of it was solo anyway bar Crystal Ball, Strange Relationship, A Place In Heaven and Witness.

Crystal Ball was solo (with Clare Fischer, no Revolution), Strange Relationship in it's final form was solo as well (some faint noises in the backround is all that remains of W&L contribution)

NouveauDance said:

paulludvig said:

Wouldn't mix Dream Factory and SOTT. SOTT ended up as a solo project by Prince and should remain so. Releasing songs that only appeared on various DF configuration as extras on SOTT would create the impression that SOTT was a Revolution project. Which it wasn't. Different with Crystal Ball. That album was a Prince solo album, just like SOTT, only bigger and better.

People don't even know what these projects are outside the hardcore, so there's going to be no confusion. Fact is, they're all linked regardless of whether "... and the Revolution" was set to appear on the LPs spine or not.

Well, they were linked because all of it was mostly Prince solo. The "... and the Revolution" was more for show to create the impression of a community (that include white people )

paulludvig said:

bigd74 said:

paulludvig said: How much Revolution stuff was really on Dream Factory? Most of it was solo anyway bar Crystal Ball, Strange Relationship, A Place In Heaven and Witness.

Crystal Ball was solo (with Clare Fischer, no Revolution), Strange Relationship in it's final form was solo as well (some faint noises in the backround is all that remains of W&L contribution)

didn't the officially released version of Crystal Ball still have some W & L backing vocals

EddieC said:

Optimus2 said:

u know its funny 4 years ive been listening 2 a fan edit of that soing that goes on for 3.45 mins......and there was me thinkingt that it was the orginal version....it basically edits out all the instrumental bit in the middle..when i found out i was pissed!!! ha

I'm so sorry for you. And why on earth did they do that anyway?

Because some clueless idiot, somewhere on Earth, thought the song "worked" better like that, edited it 4 himself and believed it was a brilliant idea 2 share his awesome edit with the world by putting it online, probably also hoping that if it could eventually become the most shared version and replace the boring, 4 minutes too long version he'd bravely edited, which would b a benefit 4 the whole world. U know what, why don't we do it with novels, too? I felt James Joyce's Ulysses and Proust's In Search Of Lost Time were boring as hell but maybe I could edit them down to 100 pages-long novels that would be great, and then share the ebooks online and who knows how many people would download them and read them believing that they're the originals?

.

That's why I'm all against sharing fan edits, people keep saying "no but people will know they're not the real deal" or "only casual listeners won't make the difference" (i.e. casual listeners deserve no respect, they don't care about those things, only hardcore fans do - and I'm the elitist!).

.

Another problem with this practice, besides butchering works of art, is that people can also edit out things that go against their beliefs. U were all for the 1991 Irak war? Let's share D&P without Money Don't Matter 2nite and Live 4 Love: it's only 2 songs, no one will know the difference! U are a conservatice christian? Let's share Purple Rain without Darling Nikki with a beautifully home made fade at the end of Computer Blue, who cares! And if u're a JW why wait 4 to edit profanities out of his songs? I'm sure some people can beautifully replace all the fucks and pussies by sound effects! Of course with books this may be even worse, total censorship as brilliant as the best fascist and commie governments ever did it to edit things u don't agree with out of them books!

.

NO, people who download stuff don't always go on Discogs to check out whether every track is there and whether each of them is the right length. Even I don't check the lengths, I check the tracklists but for all I know some albums I have have had parts of songs edited out by some idiots who thought they were the best producers since Jam & Lewis and therefore entitled to force their vision of a song on the world.

.

Goddammit don't y'all understand what's at stake? The internet is the best preservation of humanity's heritage but if misused it can also become it's best tool of destruction. It's like those political hoaxes sent by people by mail or shared on social networks, spreading right wing or left wing lies without even knowing it! Just the other day someone I know sent a panicked email to every one saying that UK had banished the Holocaust from History classes to please its muslim population: out of the people who got the mail I was probably the only one to check it out and I had to send a message to everyone saying it was a hoax. And the person who'd sent it genuinely believed it was true! The consequences of such mails on a political level are gigantic, and after that one wonders why neo nazi parties get seats at the European parliament?! I've seen the same on the opposite side of the political spectrum, this being said, such as this article that ALL my friends shared on Facebook in a panic last year that said that starting in 2016 all American citizens would have to have a microchip transplanted under their skin to be allowed to benefit from social security. Everyone genuinely believed that and shared it saying it's gonna happen in Europe too, this is the plans capitalists have 4 us! And of course a Google search took me 5 seconds to find out that it was a huge antimondialist hoax And in both cases when I told them people that they were sharing nonsense they just shrugged and said "well, nevermind, it's not really important whether it's true or not"

.

The internet is the best tool of communication and spreading information we ever had, ever, and at the same time people keep sending and sharing hoaxes they believe to be true just because they're too lazy to check makes the internet the best tool of propaganda and misinformation ever, with people disinforming themselves! It used to be governments and the media misinforming people and lying to them, not the people doing it to themselves in all innocence!

.

So no it's not "unimportant" to edit works of art and share them online, it's part of a happy-go-lucky attitude people have with the internet that creates a spiral of nonsense and misinformation!

.

Let's not fuck up the internet, this wonderful tool, by filling it with trash!

bigd74 said:

paulludvig said:

Crystal Ball was solo (with Clare Fischer, no Revolution), Strange Relationship in it's final form was solo as well (some faint noises in the backround is all that remains of W&L contribution)

didn't the officially released version of Crystal Ball still have some W & L backing vocals

No

^ Just regarding what I was saying b4. How many people here believe that Boris' The Dawn compilation is genuine? Quite a lot, some people here (fans on a fans forum, not "casual listeners") told me very seriously that Boris had compiled the album according to a REAL tracklist had made in 94 (regardless of the fact that some songs on it weren't even recorded in 94 ) and started to insult me when I told them that it was only a personal fan's vision of what "could have been", because I was "trying to discredit" Boris' precious research

I've never heard it but every one says it's a great compilation and I'm sure it is, and God knows I fucking worship Boris for the unvaluable informations he's provided here 4 years, but I think sharing this was a mistake, because many people either believe it's based on a true tracklist or that it's a true, genuine unreleased configuration made by himself. And now it's out. It's being shared every day on PéP networks and many people have no idea that it's fanmade.

Same with 4DF's reworking on Corporate World from 2 years ago. Being the highest available sound quality bootleg of the album I'm quite sure it's replaced the old boot on many people's harddrive and that it's much more often shared online than the real mc. coy. So basically a precious piece of archive is slowly being replaced by a fanmade version and soon no one will have a clue. And here again I bloody worship 4DF for the awesome work they've done all those years, but that was a mistake.

Because 15 years from now no one will probably remember where those versions of The Dawn and Corporate World came from and they'll be enthusiastically believed to be genuine while the original CW will have disappeared from the surface of Earth and TD will be as common as Come and TGE.

This breaks my heart. Really. I'm sorry if it doesn't break yours, but it does break mine

ThomasBjj said:

I'd be happy with whatever tracks that haven't been released already. Just put them on a disc of outtakes. If I care to, I can build my own playlist.

Really don't need 3 discs of songs that are already available just to pick up a few outtakes.

Yeah,this is how I feel.And,aren't there only three songs on Crystal Ball that have never been officially released? One of them being "Rebirth Of The Flesh"?

SoulAlive said:

ThomasBjj said:

I'd be happy with whatever tracks that haven't been released already. Just put them on a disc of outtakes. If I care to, I can build my own playlist.

Really don't need 3 discs of songs that are already available just to pick up a few outtakes.

Yeah,this is how I feel.And,aren't there only three songs on Crystal Ball that have never been officially released? One of them being "Rebirth Of The Flesh"?

Rebirth Of The Flesh has been released although it was a different recording. Even The Ball has been released in a way since it morphed into Eye No. Everything else was released more or less as such but there were a few different edits and segues that make it impossible to rebuild Crystal Ball exactly as it was from existing tracks, at the very least we'd need to have the alternate edits. I say if we're gonna pay 80 bucks for a 10 CD release anyway why b cheap? Let release the album as he wanted it alongside SOTT, are y'all poor or what that u're gonna make a fuss over 10 or 20 bucks more or less for a deluxe boxset we been waiting 4 years? Jesus one evening is a bar u spend more money than that nowadays, what's 20 bloody dollars more 4 the luxury of listening 2 CB as it was, something u'll b able 2 enjoy ur whole life?

databank said:

EddieC said:

I'm so sorry for you. And why on earth did they do that anyway?

Because some clueless idiot, somewhere on Earth, thought the song "worked" better like that, edited it 4 himself and believed it was a brilliant idea 2 share his awesome edit with the world by putting it online, probably also hoping that if it could eventually become the most shared version and replace the boring, 4 minutes too long version he'd bravely edited, which would b a benefit 4 the whole world. U know what, why don't we do it with novels, too? I felt James Joyce's Ulysses and Proust's In Search Of Lost Time were boring as hell but maybe I could edit them down to 100 pages-long novels that would be great, and then share the ebooks online and who knows how many people would download them and read them believing that they're the originals?

.

That's why I'm all against sharing fan edits, people keep saying "no but people will know they're not the real deal" or "only casual listeners won't make the difference" (i.e. casual listeners deserve no respect, they don't care about those things, only hardcore fans do - and I'm the elitist!).

.

Another problem with this practice, besides butchering works of art, is that people can also edit out things that go against their beliefs. U were all for the 1991 Irak war? Let's share D&P without Money Don't Matter 2nite and Live 4 Love: it's only 2 songs, no one will know the difference! U are a conservatice christian? Let's share Purple Rain without Darling Nikki with a beautifully home made fade at the end of Computer Blue, who cares! And if u're a JW why wait 4 to edit profanities out of his songs? I'm sure some people can beautifully replace all the fucks and pussies by sound effects! Of course with books this may be even worse, total censorship as brilliant as the best fascist and commie governments ever did it to edit things u don't agree with out of them books!

.

NO, people who download stuff don't always go on Discogs to check out whether every track is there and whether each of them is the right length. Even I don't check the lengths, I check the tracklists but for all I know some albums I have have had parts of songs edited out by some idiots who thought they were the best producers since Jam & Lewis and therefore entitled to force their vision of a song on the world.

.

Goddammit don't y'all understand what's at stake? The internet is the best preservation of humanity's heritage but if misused it can also become it's best tool of destruction. It's like those political hoaxes sent by people by mail or shared on social networks, spreading right wing or left wing lies without even knowing it! Just the other day someone I know sent a panicked email to every one saying that UK had banished the Holocaust from History classes to please its muslim population: out of the people who got the mail I was probably the only one to check it out and I had to send a message to everyone saying it was a hoax. And the person who'd sent it genuinely believed it was true! The consequences of such mails on a political level are gigantic, and after that one wonders why neo nazi parties get seats at the European parliament?! I've seen the same on the opposite side of the political spectrum, this being said, such as this article that ALL my friends shared on Facebook in a panic last year that said that starting in 2016 all American citizens would have to have a microchip transplanted under their skin to be allowed to benefit from social security. Everyone genuinely believed that and shared it saying it's gonna happen in Europe too, this is the plans capitalists have 4 us! And of course a Google search took me 5 seconds to find out that it was a huge antimondialist hoax And in both cases when I told them people that they were sharing nonsense they just shrugged and said "well, nevermind, it's not really important whether it's true or not"

.

The internet is the best tool of communication and spreading information we ever had, ever, and at the same time people keep sending and sharing hoaxes they believe to be true just because they're too lazy to check makes the internet the best tool of propaganda and misinformation ever, with people disinforming themselves! It used to be governments and the media misinforming people and lying to them, not the people doing it to themselves in all innocence!

.

So no it's not "unimportant" to edit works of art and share them online, it's part of a happy-go-lucky attitude people have with the internet that creates a spiral of nonsense and misinformation!

.

Let's not fuck up the internet, this wonderful tool, by filling it with trash!

Amen 2 the Purist... Oh Me 2 the Realist

databank said:

SoulAlive said:

Yeah,this is how I feel.And,aren't there only three songs on Crystal Ball that have never been officially released? One of them being "Rebirth Of The Flesh"?

Rebirth Of The Flesh has been released although it was a different recording. Even The Ball has been released in a way since it morphed into Eye No. Everything else was released more or less as such but there were a few different edits and segues that make it impossible to rebuild Crystal Ball exactly as it was from existing tracks, at the very least we'd need to have the alternate edits. I say if we're gonna pay 80 bucks for a 10 CD release anyway why b cheap? Let release the album as he wanted it alongside SOTT, are y'all poor or what that u're gonna make a fuss over 10 or 20 bucks more or less for a deluxe boxset we been waiting 4 years? Jesus one evening is a bar u spend more money than that nowadays, what's 20 bloody dollars more 4 the luxury of listening 2 CB as it was, something u'll b able 2 enjoy ur whole life?

No,it's not that we're "cheap",it's just a matter of convenience.Why would we need additional CDs containing (mostly) songs that we already have? i'd rather just have the two or three previoulsy unreleased tracks on a separate,bonus disc.I understand your need to hear Crystal Ball exactly as Prince intended it to be in 1987,but come on!

Yes and yes! I may be a sucker but I want to hear it as intended.

3CD set or not, vault tracks are vault tracks. I'd do anything for a pristine version of "Rebirth of the Flesh." One of P's darkest, funkiest jams. I've never shown it to someone who couldn't groove to that one.

Shockedelicus said:

3CD set or not, vault tracks are vault tracks. I'd do anything for a pristine version of "Rebirth of the Flesh." One of P's darkest, funkiest jams. I've never shown it to someone who couldn't groove to that one.

its avaialble already

luvsexy4all said:

bigd74 said:

luvsexy4all said:

its avaialble already

Only a live rehearsal version which was available for download 14 years ago. Studio is unavailable

yes it is