At least as a consultant - she was definitely key to those albums' successs in my opinion.

I agree. Susan Rogers is one of the top 5 most important influences on Prince's music. She should be back in any capacity she's comfortable with, but.... Prince doesn't do things that way.

She gave away a lot in that Toure book so he probably hates her now.

MendesCity said:

At least as a consultant - she was definitely key to those albums' successs in my opinion.

How?

funksterr said:

I agree. Susan Rogers is one of the top 5 most important influences on Prince's music. She should be back in any capacity she's comfortable with, but.... Prince doesn't do things that way.

What a weird statement.

It would be great if the remasters included some lengthy liner notes with insight from Susan Rogers and Alan Leeds.

SoulAlive said:

It would be great if the remasters included some lengthy liner notes with insight from Susan Rogers and Alan Leeds.

Please, not those two AGAIN! We need some new perspectives.

[Edited 6/8/14 11:44am]

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

I agree. Susan Rogers is one of the top 5 most important influences on Prince's music. She should be back in any capacity she's comfortable with, but.... Prince doesn't do things that way.

What a weird statement.

Care to elaborate? The recording engineer is an important part of the process. She was the best engineer Prince ever worked with, imo. Even her mistakes sounded good, lol.

I don't really care 4 liner notes. If I want 2 read about something I need a book or those liner notes better be a small book in themselves and reveal things that were never revealed b4. Or written by the artist himself. George Duke's "liner notes" about each of his albums on his wesibte are priceless documents.

Technically I doubt Ms. Rogers has anything to offer to digital remasters, technology isn't what it was and in the end it's more about how wants the records to "sound" in the end. No disrespect here, she brought her contribution and it was great but then she decided to retire as an engineer adn I'm sure she had her reasons. It's 2014. Everyone involved has moved on.

well whoever were responsible for the mastering back in the 80ies should be ashamed.

Terrible mastering back then - the CD's are awful........ please don't bring back those people..

Like ufoclub I am not sure Susan Rogers had anything to do with mastering the sound, she was a producer wasn't she?

Ok: School me if I need to be schooled?

ufoclub said:

I don't think she influenced his music... She helped record it. She never mastered it either.

You can't record it without influencing it. For comparison I recommend listening to Femi Jiya's Prince records and then his work on Stevie Wonder's "A Time To Love" album. Same sound, even though the artists are very different.

thedance said:

well whoever were responsible for the mastering back in the 80ies should be ashamed.

Terrible mastering back then - the CD's are awful........ please don't bring back those people..

Like ufoclub I am not sure Susan Rogers had anything to do with mastering the sound, she was a producer wasn't she?

Ok: School me if I need to be schooled?

Don't confuse mastering and transfer ^^ The vinyls were good if we're to believe whoever have them. Bernie Grundman was responsible 4 the mastering. If u really feel u need 2 send him insults emails that's where: [Not cool snip - luv4u]

funksterr said:

ufoclub said:

I don't think she influenced his music... She helped record it. She never mastered it either.

You can't record it without influencing it. For comparison I recommend listening to Femi Jiya's Prince records and then his work on Stevie Wonder's "A Time To Love" album. Same sound, even though the artists are very different.

Femi Jiya's name conjours up the bad Prince music from the 90's. Hopefully never see his name in anythinfg Prince related again. Even thoe it's from 88, I hate the sound of Lovesexy.

[Edited 6/8/14 16:58pm]

thedance said:

databank said:

Technically I doubt Ms. Rogers has anything to offer to digital remasters,

She was there when the historic stuff happened.

She recorded it. She knows how it was done, how it sounds and what they were aiming for.

Digital is not the magical stuff anymore and dismissing Susan on just that is a bit too fast.

udo said:

databank said:

Technically I doubt Ms. Rogers has anything to offer to digital remasters,

She was there when the historic stuff happened.

She recorded it. She knows how it was done, how it sounds and what they were aiming for.

Digital is not the magical stuff anymore and dismissing Susan on just that is a bit too fast.

Exactly! I can't believe that some fans are dismissing Susan Rogers and downplaying her role in these recording sessions.

paulludvig said:

SoulAlive said:

It would be great if the remasters included some lengthy liner notes with insight from Susan Rogers and Alan Leeds.

Please, not those two AGAIN! We need some new perspectives.

[Edited 6/8/14 11:44am]

Who do you have in mind then? You can't get much closer than them, and besides, the other people who worked with Prince have not been talking (to great length) about working with him.

funkaholic1972 said:

paulludvig said:

Please, not those two AGAIN! We need some new perspectives.

[Edited 6/8/14 11:44am]

Who do you have in mind then? You can't get much closer than them, and besides, the other people who worked with Prince have not been talking (to great length) about working with him.

Those people are exactly the people I want to here from. The story about Prince has so far been shaped almost entirely by a handful of people willing to talk to great lenght (mostly about their own influence on Prince sound)

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

What a weird statement.

Care to elaborate? The recording engineer is an important part of the process. She was the best engineer Prince ever worked with, imo. Even her mistakes sounded good, lol.

She wasn't the only engineer Prince worked with, even during the golden age were talkning about. Susan Rogers herself has gone on record saying that Prince never asked for her advice.

ufoclub said:

I don't think she influenced his music... She helped record it. She never mastered it either.

Agreed. She's no more an influence than say Femi Jiya or Tom Tucker. Though I think Tucker did help with the clean, rounded, contemporary sound of the 94-95 recordings.

SoulAlive said:

ufoclub said:

but still wired and plugged in the machines and mics, loaded the reels, etc.

That does not negate what I wrote.

I don't dis Susan or anything. But she's long gone + we're talking remastering not engineering, whoever is responsible to the "sound" of Prince's classic albums in terms of mastering is Bernie Grundman and his staff, not the engineers, their impact was different, so if someone has to try and be faithful to the spirit of the original analogic mastering process it's Grundman, no one else.

databank said:

I don't dis Susan or anything. But she's long gone + we're talking remastering not engineering,

Who agrued that?

She was a witness to it all!

whoever is responsible to the "sound" of Prince's classic albums in terms of mastering is Bernie Grundman and his staff, not the engineers,

So? And what then is don at recording time?

their impact was different, so if someone has to try and be faithful to the spirit of the original analogic mastering process it's Grundman, no one else.

Who was trying to dismiss Bernie?

And who is trying to dismiss Susan?

Many here seem to confuse an engineer with a producer.

Prince's classic records have a very appealing sound to them, but that's hardly because they're engineered exceptionally well. You could say that a lot of that stuff has a demo-ish quality and it's hardly like Prince was willing to spend the type of money on the recording personnel that you'd pay for someone like Bruce Swedien.

The overall sound of his later records changed mostly because he switched the gear he was using for things that other artists with a far more polished sound on their records would use. No more LinnDrum, analog synths, DX7, early samplers with analog filters, EMT reverbs etc. I doubt Susan Rogers had any real influence on what type of equipment Prince would use.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

Care to elaborate? The recording engineer is an important part of the process. She was the best engineer Prince ever worked with, imo. Even her mistakes sounded good, lol.

She wasn't the only engineer Prince worked with, even during the golden age were talkning about. Susan Rogers herself has gone on record saying that Prince never asked for her advice.

True. But she is also on record saying Prince used a lot of her mistakes in his final releases to add character or creativity to the songs. Prince didn't specificaly say do this or that, but that seems to be because he just assumed she had the answers and didn't need his direction. She was free to kind of do whatever she thought was best in terms of how she recorded him. That is important, because as it turns out Susan Rogers is extremely smart, and what she did come up with, worked out well. As it turns out, she was part of the sound that defined Prince, for most of us diehards that go crazy for the mid 80's outtakes. There are a lot of 90's era Prince songs, imo, would have been better received had they adhered closer to the manner Susan recorded Prince. He had a lot of skilled engineers, but often times, they had preferences that just sound out of place on Prince, imo.

One more thing on Susan Rogers. I forget all the details, but the last time I read anything on her, she was even more skilled today, than when she worked for Prince. I know, I would feel A LOT better about the re-releases to hear she was involved. Not that it matters, because there is no way Prince is going to use the best people on this. No way at all.

novabrkr said:

Many here seem to confuse an engineer with a producer.

Prince's classic records have a very appealing sound to them, but that's hardly because they're engineered exceptionally well. You could say that a lot of that stuff has a demo-ish quality and it's hardly like Prince was willing to spend the type of money on the recording personnel that you'd pay for someone like Bruce Swedien.

The overall sound of his later records changed mostly because he switched the gear he was using for things that other artists with a far more polished sound on their records would use. No more LinnDrum, analog synths, DX7, early samplers with analog filters, EMT reverbs etc. I doubt Susan Rogers had any real influence on what type of equipment Prince would use.

Totally true, Susan herself admitted that the recordings were done hastly and didn't fit the usual pro standards of an artist of 's caliber. On the other hand this "demo" sound contributes the global "atmosphere of those records and all the better for it. It has nothing to do with money, though, money was there (it was WB's for the most part). is notorious for being uncomfortable working with total strangers and to favor convenience over anything because of the urgency of his needs (i.e. he needs it done 10 minutes ago, not in a week). Obviously he liked to have his engineers, people he trusted and people he had control on because they needed him for the job, as well as people who were available 24/7, whenever he needed them. Michael Koppleman for example lost the gig for one reason only: after severeal years answering every call (including missing the release party of "his" album with Ingrid because had work 4 him 2 finish, and God was Michael pissed on that day!), he was ordered to do some mixing work on christsmas day 4 something that wasn't so urgent, and he wanted to b with his family so he said "the hell with it" and went home. When he returned he was told he was no longer needed. Back then also needed a lot of intimacy, he would usually record vocals on his own. So 4 all those reasons he wouldn't call Michael Jackson's engineer, a top dog guy who had many of other gigs and that he'd never met b4, to record a song. He'd use his own staff as much as possible.

Mastering is a separate art from producing/engineerning, especially during the 80's.

As for Susan, she would have been the closest thing Prince had to a consistent collaborator during that period, even if it was simply technical. She seems to claim she gave opinions, and made suggestions. She was in most of those recording sessions, and would be one of the most likely to understand Prince's intentions. She wasn't strictly an engineer.