Stimpy said:

Jimi was cool but he was no where NEAR the greatest guitarist of all time.

He was early, I will give him that. And with fewer electronic toys the tome had to come from shear volume and feedback, which was impressive.

But if you PLAY THE GUITAR you can tell that he was primarily a pentatonic player and, aside from a great rhythm/lead style his stuff is pretty ordinary for electric blues.

Technical ability, timing and offstage persona--all of which are/were right up there at the top, his MELODY was actually pretty so-so.

Little Wing is probably as good as it ever got, and most of the flashy playing stuff was either tacky (teeth, behind the head nonsense) or scalar.

Prince, on the other hand, manages to stay melodic for more of his total playing time than anyone since Miles, and maybe even more than him.

Ask ANY guitarist--this is what is HARD TO DO.

Improvised playing on some of the aftershow boots show this best.

It may not matter to casual listeners or to historybooks (where being dead young helps, as long as it is your own vomit that is), but to OTHER GUITAR PLAYERS this is what is what.

Not to sound condscending, but unless you play you should be careful of opinions.

And ANYONE can pick up the guitar.

In fact, everyone SHOULD.

Amen, Prince is an artist in his own right, and judging by this early Prince interview I am listening to - Prince did not grow up on Hendrix, respects him but he is not as deep as an influence as music writers and most fans think.

ThomasBjj said:

Horsefeathers said:

The big reason Prince and Hendrix comparisons make me bristle is because when I hear them, it is usually code for, "oh, it's two black guys who play guitar," as just another variation of having a black spokesperson for __whatever__. Any black guy who plays guitar after Hendrix is just like Hendrix. For all the reasons they may or may not be alike, most people IME who make that comparison can't name any beyond that.

If the only similarities between Prince and Hendrix where that they are both black and play guitar, then you would have a valid point.

These comparisons are based on PLENTY of factors. Some playing style, some stage style, some clothing style. They are not identical, but there are enough similarities to make the comparison. I could find you a dozen photos of Prince looking like Hendrix. (hell, some of them are on this very thread.) The song "Dreamer" from Lotusflow3r, although came along well after the comparisons, help validate the claim. Prince's track "Purple House" on the Hendrix tribute album, as well. Seems like both Prince and Hendrix estate see similarities as well, and embrace them. They aren't comparing Prince and Hendrix because they are so terribly familiar with their work.

Unfortunately, typing text over the internet is no substitute for convrsation. Negative tone can be read into anything, things can be misinterpreted, etc. So forgive me, but I'm not a fan of the idea that just because people compare two perple that are the same race, that it is all about race and that those people are just stereotyping. I feel like maybe your take on the matter is kinda similar form of stereotyping.

But I'm not mad about it, or at anyone. I offer my opinion with all due respect. I could be totally wrong.

My point is not that there are no similarities. I'm saying that most of the people who make the comparison (among people I've talked to, YMMV) can not specify why they are similar or how they are different. "Oh, yeah, Prince; he plays guitar, just like Hendrix," not meaning he plays guitar like Hendrix, but that like Hendrix he is a black guy who plays guitar. If these people could come up with any other similarity, that would be just swell. That's what bugs me. It would be the casual Prince observer, not a fan or people with extensive musical knowledge. It is something that has come up a perhaps ridiculous number of times among acquaintances. I am a fan who is pretty familiar with Dreamer that you mentioned. These people are "fans" because they had the Purple Rain soundtrack in the 80's. They aren't basing any opinions on any extensive knowledge of Prince's or Hendrix's work.

[Edited 6/16/14 16:35pm]

[Edited 6/16/14 16:36pm]

Horsefeathers said:

ThomasBjj said:

If the only similarities between Prince and Hendrix where that they are both black and play guitar, then you would have a valid point.

These comparisons are based on PLENTY of factors. Some playing style, some stage style, some clothing style. They are not identical, but there are enough similarities to make the comparison. I could find you a dozen photos of Prince looking like Hendrix. (hell, some of them are on this very thread.) The song "Dreamer" from Lotusflow3r, although came along well after the comparisons, help validate the claim. Prince's track "Purple House" on the Hendrix tribute album, as well. Seems like both Prince and Hendrix estate see similarities as well, and embrace them. They aren't comparing Prince and Hendrix because they are so terribly familiar with their work.

Unfortunately, typing text over the internet is no substitute for convrsation. Negative tone can be read into anything, things can be misinterpreted, etc. So forgive me, but I'm not a fan of the idea that just because people compare two perple that are the same race, that it is all about race and that those people are just stereotyping. I feel like maybe your take on the matter is kinda similar form of stereotyping.

But I'm not mad about it, or at anyone. I offer my opinion with all due respect. I could be totally wrong.

My point is not that there are no similarities. I'm saying that most of the people who make the comparison (among people I've talked to, YMMV) can not specify why they are similar or how they are different. "Oh, yeah, Prince; he plays guitar, just like Hendrix," not meaning he plays guitar like Hendrix, but that like Hendrix he is a black guy who plays guitar. If these people could come up with any other similarity, that would be just swell. That's what bugs me. It would be the casual Prince observer, not a fan or people with extensive musical knowledge. It is something that has come up a perhaps ridiculous number of times among acquaintances. I am a fan who is pretty familiar with Dreamer that you mentioned. These people are "fans" because they had the Purple Rain soundtrack in the 80's. They aren't basing any opinions on any extensive knowledge of Prince's or Hendrix's work.

[Edited 6/16/14 16:35pm]

[Edited 6/16/14 16:36pm]

Your point is wrong then. There are plenty of similarities in their playing WHEN PRINCE WANTS TO CHANNEL HIM. Look at the solo at the end of "I could never take the place of your man" on the SOTT film, with him blazing in Em on top of the amp-stack and spraying "stuff" at the front rows. PURE HENDRIX--licks and dazzle.

And that is also the best example of the superiority of Prince on guitar IMO, his ability to play PERFECT Hendrix and then change styles TO VIRTUALLY ANY GENRE flawlessly. Listen to his jazz fills on "Strollin" from the Alladin, or his Zeppelin-esq Major runs on Empty room from Montreaux in 09.

He can do it all.

Could Jimi play jazz? Maybe. But the definition of jazz to many is just acceptable dissonance and playing outside of the traditional harmonic lines. REAL jazz is MUCH harder than that--the same way modern art looks like your 3 year old did it to those who do not follow it.

Again, there are many players with the same physical ability on the guitar--some better probably.

There are players who have the advantage of ONLY having to shine on the guitar, and may know zero about the rest of the song being played.

But there are NO players other than Prince who have mastered ALL THE STYLES ON ALL THE INSTRUMENTS (inclduing the sound board) and this is more than just a some-of-the-parts superiority.

It is these pieces that alow him--probably even REQUIRE him--to be more melodic more of the time than any other player I have heard.

And that, to ME as a player myself for 30 years (and I can play most of the Hendrix catalog) is what defines the "bar" of greatness.

I acn look at SRV or EVH or Santana or Jimi or whoever and say, yea that is great playing.

But Prince to me is just OTHERWORDLY.

he is a MUSICAL ALIEN.

Read it again. Emphasis added. I have not suggested anywhere that there are no other similarities or that race is the only thing they have in common. Quite the contrary. My point was that for a lot of people who are not me, the primary similarity is race because they can't name one similarity beyond that when they say, "Prince plays guitar, like Hendrix." They aren't saying, "Prince plays guitar like Hendrix." Those are the people and comparisons that bug me. I'm not refuting any point in this thread. I'm just adding one.

Horsefeathers said:

My point is NOT that there are no similarities.

treehouse said:

novabrkr said:

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Hendrix history is a funny thing. It's a lot like Prince biographical info... if one of a hand full of people cosign it, then everyone accepts it as true, despite a lack of evidence.

The story is he wanted to work with Miles himself. The project had a name. Jimi was actively seeking out collaborations and supergroup type projects. Most sound like Jimi's camp trying to float some ideas around, but the Miles project sounds the most realized.

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I'm of the belief neither Prince nor Jimi could hack it as true session musicians because they have too much personality in what they do, and it requires a different set of chops, but Hendrix certainly could play jazz in the sense that Jazz is a huge umbrella of a genre. Hendrix would have played Jazz the way Miles played Jazz.

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Had to still post this as a response as I remembered where I got the info on Miles and Hendrix never having been entirely serious about a collaboration. James Mtume puts it in this way in this video from 2010 and I tend to believe him over people that weren't there personally on such matters:



The comment comes after 12:00. I know this is OT on the main forum, but at least it's interesting from the perspective of artists that many here listen to.

novabrkr said:

treehouse said:

.

Hendrix history is a funny thing. It's a lot like Prince biographical info... if one of a hand full of people cosign it, then everyone accepts it as true, despite a lack of evidence.

The story is he wanted to work with Miles himself. The project had a name. Jimi was actively seeking out collaborations and supergroup type projects. Most sound like Jimi's camp trying to float some ideas around, but the Miles project sounds the most realized.

.

I'm of the belief neither Prince nor Jimi could hack it as true session musicians because they have too much personality in what they do, and it requires a different set of chops, but Hendrix certainly could play jazz in the sense that Jazz is a huge umbrella of a genre. Hendrix would have played Jazz the way Miles played Jazz.

.

Had to still post this as a response as I remembered where I got the info on Miles and Hendrix never having been entirely serious about a collaboration. James Mtume puts it in this way in this video from 2010 and I tend to believe him over people that weren't there personally on such matters:



The comment comes after 12:00. I know this is OT on the main forum, but at least it's interesting from the perspective of artists that many here listen to.

Some classic responses there from Mtume . Somebody needs to preach it to fuddy duddy people like Stanley Crouch. Especially loved his comments about use of electricity and technology in other walks of life and yet why not in music/ jazz? People like Crouch are so illogical.

Hendrix died at age 27, and in that short life his guitar work is the comparsion point to Prince. Ask yourself, was Prince this awesome at age 27? Had he revolutionized rock guitar and set the new standard that will be imitated from now on at age 27?

Because of Hendrix's early death, there will never be a safisfactory answer for this comparison. We do know that Hendrix never had to borrow from Prince, just something to chew on.

I don't have a definate answer for this, I really don't know.

I have never seen Prince as the guitar icon that Hendrix is.

I have always seen Prince as a much more rounded performer than Hendrix, not just isolated to guitar player.

One does have to wonder, if Hendrix had not died so young, what else he would have recorded. How much better would he have gotten? How much more he would have changed the face of music? I know that's only speculation, but his limited works and thier impact speaks volumes of his ability.

Prince on the other hand changed the face of music in the 80's, in his 20's, and I don't think it was so much guitar as it was just plain artistic genius.

That's another topic though.

It's a hard argument to try and solve. It's like comparing apples with oranges, because Jimi was dead long before Prince became famous (Prince may have started learning guitar in 1970, but was hardly at Hendrix's feet). I think overall Hendrix outpaces Prince in the guitar stakes by along shot, Hendrix was very experimental yes, but he was a great jazz player as you all have said. But what people have not mentioned, is that he was also a great blues player and probably specialised in the blues more than anything else (Red House for instance).

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What Jimi did on his guitar was the absolute limit of what his time would allow, he was a traveller way ahead of his time, had he been around 20 years later, there may have been many like him and he would have been more accepted by the Zappas and Satrianis of the world. But in the sheer Musician stakes, its Prince, the all writing, playing and performing genius. In comparison Jimi could sing a bit and quite well (Electric Ladyland vocals are pretty amazing) write songs and apparently even played bass and a harp, but he is primarily remembered for the fact he played kick ass guitar. But he did not produce acts, or play 27 instruments or hold a huge vault of unpublished songs. Yet Jimi had 3 years in the sun, Prince has had nearly 40 so again unfair comparison.

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Also the technology is an unfair comparison, Jimi was limited to 4 track recording limited electrical organs, less complex guitars (Although Fender Guitars were very impressive by this stage), he had no autotune, 64 track studios or the army of synthesisers Prince fooled around with in the late 70s to now. When Jimi died in 1970 Synthesisers were still experimental and could fill a room (That thing Stevie played on "The Music of my Mind")

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Even the context of music, when Prince came along in the late 70s, long warbling experimental compositions were all the rage and expected. But when Jimi came up in the 60s, it was strictly 3 minute songs with safe rock and roll chords. Jimi did not really get the chance to cut loose and experiment until the JHE was well established and even then he was still fighting with his producers when they wanted to edit and cut up his songs. He spent years playing chugging rock and roll chords for other people, and when he did cut loose, he was cut down to size. It's thanks to people like Jimi Hendrix that Prince could operate in the less restrictive confines of 70s music than the 1961 straight rock and roll world Jimi had to wade through.

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So I won't compare them, I love them both (Just rediscovered and reading my 1995 copy of Electric Gypsy by Ceasar Glebbek complete with the appendices listing all his shows, bootlegs, guitars and bands he played in), but its unfair to choose one over the other or compare, they are different men and I think people only lump them together as both are black, play electric guitar and appeal more widely to whites rather than blacks.

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At most Jimi influenced Prince in the sense of playing guitar and having interracial groups (Noel and Mitch were both white Britons, although Band of Gypsys was blacker). Jimi was a product of late 1960s Psychedelia, whereas Prince is totally a 1980s artist with the synth heavy dancefloor ethic of the times.

[Edited 6/25/14 5:52am]

Adorecream said:

But he did not produce acts, or play 27 instruments or hold a huge vault of unpublished songs.

Slight pedantic correction . Jimi did produce a few other acts, it's just that those productions and acts were and are pretty obscure (eg the Irish rock band Eire Apparent and one or two Buddy Miles Express tracks).

The fact that his estate have still been releasing previously unheard Hendrix songs (the quality of these is another matter) in the last 10-15 years shows he had quite a number of unreleased songs/ works in progress.

And more on topic, no comparison between Hendrix and Prince. Jimi was one of the prime originators of electric guitar music of all time. Prince, however excellent a player he is, is just one of the herd of guitarists who followed in his shadow.

Prince definitely invites comparisons though, judging by some of his stage attire and performance style. But he is by no means unique in that.

There is so much simularity, it isn't possible to stop comparing.
I saw documentary ; jimi hendrix - hear my train a comin' and realised they have much more in common than just playing guitar.

Jimi hendrix was extremely and continually searching for improvement and making new music.
The documentary reveals that while on tour jimi and band were on stage or in the studio. Jimi jammed a lot in local clubs while touring (aftershows) (which i didn't know).

On top of succes with The Experience he left the band to create a new one and create different music.

Hendrix bought a club "the Generation" so he could jam at his own club (GlamSlam club). Later his own recording studio was built, so he was free to create when he wanted to (Paisley park).

As far as guitar playing it's a matter of taste, and there are so many aspects to focus on guitar playing that it's not possible to say who is better.

I feel Prince is still improving his guitar playing. I think jimi was more creative and inventing new sounds and ways to play the guitar.

Miles said:

Adorecream said:

But he did not produce acts, or play 27 instruments or hold a huge vault of unpublished songs.

Slight pedantic correction . Jimi did produce a few other acts, it's just that those productions and acts were and are pretty obscure (eg the Irish rock band Eire Apparent and one or two Buddy Miles Express tracks).

The fact that his estate have still been releasing previously unheard Hendrix songs (the quality of these is another matter) in the last 10-15 years shows he had quite a number of unreleased songs/ works in progress.

And more on topic, no comparison between Hendrix and Prince. Jimi was one of the prime originators of electric guitar music of all time. Prince, however excellent a player he is, is just one of the herd of guitarists who followed in his shadow.

Prince definitely invites comparisons though, judging by some of his stage attire and performance style. But he is by no means unique in that.

I agree, Jimi was an originator, Prince was a a follower.

Didn't know enough about Rire apparent to know that Jimi was involved. I know he shadowed them. Like Prince too, I know Jimi had an immediate impact on his contemporaries and influenced them greatly. Sunshine of my love is Ginger Bakers tribute to the JHE.

.

But still was the JHE Jimi's idea, not really (Although Jimi was happy with whatever happened as long he got to play and preferably dominate the group) Chas Chandler had dreamed it up as a plan to make some bread after the Animals had called it a day, but Jimi did have his own group at the time (The Blue Flames with Randy California and the other Randy), so yeah I agree there, Jimi wanted his own groups for his various moods and we all know he got sick of playing behind other people.

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If I had to choose between the two, it would be Jimi over Prince any day, although I like Prince more due to the fact I grew up with hims, he has more music out there and he is closer to my time period, but if you are ranking artists based on ability.quality and influence, its Jimi by a long shot.