The drop in quality in his music post 87 was so immediate and so drastic that there was something major at play. It may well be a lot of factors coming in to play at once. His age, complacency, band members leaving, drugs.. My guess would be all of the above.
[Edited 5/19/14 12:07pm] | |
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I don't think anyone is saying this is the only great period, because most people who say this period was like off the chart, it's seated within the 1978-1988 great period | |
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In YOUR opinion. Nostalgia is a scientifically proven fact that is especially infuencial during your teenage years. 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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And you are of course welcome to your valid opinion as am I. I guess it is all down to taste but even in 1984 I used to lift the stylus when it came to IWD4U. 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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V10LETBLUES said: The drop in quality in his music post 87 was so immediate and so drastic that there was something major at play. It may well be a lot of factors coming in to play at once. His age, complacency, band members leaving, drugs.. My guess would be all of the above.
[Edited 5/19/14 12:07pm] Prince still had that Prince sound up to 1995. The drop off to me was Emancipation. Everything started to sound the same. Personally I feel that he got into a rut of giving half ass songs to WB to get out his contract and he kept making half ass songs with a gem here or there. The form started to return with Musicology and 3121 was great. Since then, he's been up a down. Just because you get a little older doesn't mean you can't have that same fire! Like Prince said, his only competition is him in the past. Well that past Prince is kicking his ass! [Edited 5/19/14 12:19pm] __________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition | |
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Oh and the excitement stimulated by Prince playing Electric Intercourse on Thursday (among the hardcore) was because of nostalgia not because it is some amazing song. It is a fine nice song but Prince was right to replace it on PR with The Beautiful Ones (far superior). I believe The Dance (from 3121) is actually a far superior song to EI, in every way! Doesn't mean I wasn't excited to hear it on Thursday! 'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything. | |
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Prince still had that Prince sound up to 1995. The drop off to me was Emancipation. Everything started to sound the same. Personally I feel that he got into a rut of giving half ass songs to WB to get out his contract and he kept making half ass songs with a gem here or there. The form started to return with Musicology and 3121 was great. Since then, he's been up a down. Just because you get a little older doesn't mean you can't have that same fire! Like Prince said, his only competition is him in the past. Well that past Prince is kicking his ass! [Edited 5/19/14 12:19pm]
Got to disagree, it was a drastic and sudden change statrting in 87. I for one cannot stand any of his 90's records except for a few songs here and there. Overall to me that era has a joyless overtly childish vibe that was lacking in any kind of charm or creativity. [Edited 5/19/14 22:46pm] | |
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Actually all of the songs jaypotton mentioned are damn fucking great! | |
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. . Excluding Purple Rain, 1999, or Black Album from that period though? Relating it to Women's menstrual periods? It's all weird. [Edited 5/19/14 12:54pm] | |
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Nice theory, bro.
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I think that Prince simply reached his creative peak in 1987/88.Happens to every artist after a string of truly great records | |
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. Who could resist the genuiness of Kriss Kross, Another Bad Creation, Candyman, Positive K, or Sir Mixalot? Half kidding. . I don't think Wendy and Lisa sounded enough like 80's Revolution. The strongest song, was the single that could have been on ATWIAD. I also tend to think fans would have been thrilled if Prince got stuck on When Doves Cry and just kept doing variations of it, with the occasional nod to Controversy/Delirious. He kind of got stuck on Le Grind or She's Always in My Hair, instead...maybe? Which sounds equally as awesome on paper, but maybe not so much in reality. He definitely got stuck along the way. | |
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Considering how stylistically diverse his output was in the 1990s I see no reason to say that he "got stuck".
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I didn't mean to imply he didn't have another original idea or change styles. Obviously, I wouldn't generalize like that about a whole era of releases... but it seems like he got stuck and started rehashing (or revisiting) a lot of the breakthrough ideas, and unlike past records, they rarely anchored cohesive projects. | |
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I'm sorry, but that statement is just untenable.
In the '90s, the Dutch Top 40 chart was slowly filled with a lot of house music and other crap. But good (mainstream) music was still being made.
And well-established acts not scoring hits nowadays doesn't mean they're not making good and/or commerical music anymore. Except for Prince, of course. He should just stop and open the vault. Stop the Prince Apologists ™ | |
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how is it nostalgia when most of them weren't there to hear it? | |
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First time I heard Electric Intercourse I believe was about 4-5 years ago. What's so great about the song is the desperat emotion in his scream, the gentle touch of piano, the melody of the vocals... but for someone that doesn't appreciate the song, it can sound a bit like it's not going anywhere. If you know how to appreaciate the little things in it, then it's one of his best. I personally think it was right to put The Beautiful Ones in the movie and album instead of electric intercourse because of the story that is told. However electric intercourse could fit other scenes, and it could be on a disck two or deluxe edition of purple rain, which I'm hoping it will. It is a classic to me. My Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/tundrah | |
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Aren't you contradicting yourself here?
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. I'm sure I've contradicted myself somewhere, but how is that one? I haven't said he never recorded another breakthrough again, I'm saying he tended to get stuck on these formulas. All artists do this to some extent, it's just wether they get trapped, or stuck as I put it. Can you really say le grind, sexy mf'er, pheremone, pussy control, come are all really different ideas? I might even throw in cream and peach in there though those borrow from other places too. So yes, the Symbol album borrows ideas he used in the 80's. . I guess you could also say the same of Let's Work, Partyup, All the Critics, and those songs, but then that's the cusp of his breakout into the period we're discussing as his greatest one, and he was able to shake it off and evolve. You can still say "Oh, well Ronnie , Talk to Russia got rehashed in Let's Go Crazy if you're using that criteria" or something like that, but at least he improved on it and created a more realized song with it. He evolved. I don't think he did that with the 90's output. Sexy M'fer doesn't show any evolution over Le Grind unless you count the heavy tribute to James Brown, which he also had some relapses of. | |
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Ha Ha. Well, I was thinking more like EPMD, Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, KRS-1, Public Enemy, NWA, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Mc Lyte, and the Native Tongue crew. Late 80s hip hop was like 1950s rock and roll. You dont think Waterfall, Honeymoon Express and Side Show could have easily fit into the Parade or Dream Factory era? [Edited 5/20/14 11:31am] | |
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You seem to be contradicting yourself, because you originally stated that
So "3" doesn't seem to convey the same idea as "2" does. Instead you are criticizing him for what you would have apparently preferred him to do with "1". I understood that by the expression "breakthrough" you are referring to songs like "When Doves Cry" and not "Le Grind". So the only way there wouldn't be a logical / semantic contradiction would be if you were referring to a track like "Le Grind" being a "breakthrough" track, which I doubt was your intention.
[Edited 5/20/14 12:04pm] | |
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Of course, the "original mixes" Koppelmann referred to might not be the circulating things we've heard. We get outtakes at some point in their development, not necessarily at their best point, or even at an artistically significant point in their development. | |
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. . Ha. What's called the Golden Era of hip hop still was rooted in the idea of players, ballers, party rockers and a lot of that stuff Prince personafied, don't you think? . . Definintely agree some of the W&L stuff sounded Princely, but not enough of it to keep a lot of Revolution fans interested. I wasn't interested in them getting their own identity, I wanted 9 songs that sounded like Waterfall. | |
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Really good post, in my opinion. I mean, it's pretty obvious. | |
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. Wow, yeah I don't think my posts are reaching you. Maybe you're overthinking this because the overall statement I'm making is something you want to disagree with from a gut response, not so much that there's a semantic issue, or contradictions? Sorry to say. . . I do consider Le Grind a breakthrough for Prince's own catalog...for the reasons I've stated. If he needs a song he can default back into that formula....and I guess we can discuss what that formula is, but I'm sure a lot of people aren't going to hear the similarities I'm hearing even if they are pointed out. It'll be like I'm talking about fake hands in Los Angeles. . I can't stress enough that this isn't unique to Prince. Some of it's how they write, some of it's due to the persona they've created (think Kraftwerk...those poor bastards will never be able to get away from the robot stuff). They get stuck. | |
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Because he wanted to build Paisley Park so he did and the rest is history? | |
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