paulludvig said:

TrevorAyer said:

the 80s music was great all around because it was that special phase in culture when people were rejecting shitty corporate pop music and new unique sounds could thrive .. the music industry killed this era dead and we are back to a handful of shitty artists making crap music who dominate the airwaves .. think disco and then the death of disco .. pop music must die again .. smaller labels must rise again .. people need to stop buying music they hear on tv comercials and garbage like american idol and support small time music that is actually good and real sounding .. wb used to be great about producing artists that do not fit the pop mold but make great music .. prince was one of them .. prince is no longer an artist .. he is just product .. boring lifeless product for stupid people who have never heard good music .. nothing truly good since wb ..

the other reason prince was so good back then was because he had a great group of musicians he could steal ideas from all the time and who could embelish his ideas to their maximum potential .. people take the 'prince did everything himself' notion way to seriously .. its like an ok lead actor with an amazing supporting cast that makes the lead look better than he is .. prince cant hang without his talented musicians .. 20 years of post wb shit proves this fact beyond any doubt and will stand up in a court of law so dont even try to dismiss it as opinion ..

prince believed the bs that he could do it all himself .. he went from changing a band member here and there due to their leaving of their own valition .. to flat out firing his whole band every few years .. the dynamic shifted from all for one one for all to all for prince and no one else .. and the music has suffered ever since

[Edited 5/15/14 5:24am]

Of course it's opinion. And an ill-founded one. Just listen to the old rehearsal boots. Prince is calling all the shots. Prince uses the band almost as just a sequencer he can talk to.

the "autist" boy Prince found that to be very effective I assume. Wow it responds to my commands, and does excatly what I need for this song to get finished 5 times faster than if I had to record everything myself. Hallelujah! Jokes aside. He did get alot of influence from these folks. His abilities alone is often either exaggerated in either directions though.

yes there are more independant musicians but not since the 80s early 90s have independant musicians had so much access to mainstream .. bands like the cure prince pixies janes addiction all could be heard in the mainstream .. these days its all rappers with hookers and shitty boy band bullshit like jt all over everything .. nothing real .. and prince just jumped on that bandwagon .. so the notion that bedroom rockstars are more prevelant than ever is irrelevant since nobody ever hears their music and they cant make a living off of it for the most part .. sure there is good music out there now but super hard to find or care about .. meanwhile we are bombarded constantly with rubbish where once there was room for independant minded musicians

prince only stepped out again with the NPG which again had great musicians in the band who were close enough friends that there was some collaboration ... neither revolution or prince did particularly well on their own but the collaboration with rev is up there with the beatles in terms of quality output .. prince solo remind me more of late paul mccartney than say early solo lennon .. i like prince cheesy side but that was all that was left when the collaborators were gone .. prince and good collaborators are mutually dependant .. prince lows are lower than his previous collaborators solo work tho .. and he has yet to hit a high that matches the 80s since ..

The answer to the question "Why was '85-'87 such a great period?" is really the opposite of what people think. People have the idea that Prince in the 80's was surrounded by talented musicians and songwriters that fed him ideas. The quality of his output nosedived when Prince started to think he could do it all by himself. Quite the opposite! In the 80's he really did it all by himself almost entirely. The result is idiosyncratic and fun. Sometimes strange, but never forced. In the 90's he felt he had to update his sound and relied to much on other people to accomplish this. His music suffered because he invited other people's input. He lost his sound.

databank said:

paulludvig said:

The answer to the question "Why was '85-'87 such a great period?" is really the opposite of what people think. People have the idea that Prince in the 80's was surrounded by talented musicians and songwriters that fed him ideas. The quality of his output nosedived when Prince started to think he could do it all by himself. Quite the opposite! In the 80's he really did it all by himself almost entirely. The result is idiosyncratic and fun. Sometimes strange, but never forced. In the 90's he felt he had to update his sound and relied to much on other people to accomplish this. His music suffered because he invited other people's input. He lost his sound.

Disagree, but agree on parts

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It really was the people he 'gleamed' from no doubt about it.

those in the 1980s I'll say from Dirty Mind - Lovesexy emulated Prince's sound which is why it was so definable live. Prince talked a lot about what he called a 'community' then and the talks and gatherings and such. It's no doubt the people in the camp took Prince's vision and worked it. Those that came after it was a lot different too much 'Non Prince' came into the camp/music and that's why we quickly lost Uptown / Erotic City / Paisley Park after that Lovesexy band. Even though Dr Fink & Miko were still there for the Nude tour the other elements/people were crowding them out.

It was a good era for music all around. You had the aftermath of punk/disco, which was freeing, you had some of the old Sixties artists still around, people were rediscovering a lot of overlooked music, and it was all starting to get reissued, and then an entirely new genre of music was born with hip hop. The technology was more accesible but still not in everyone's lap yet. Plus the 80's had the right amount of turmoil, with most of it feeling far fetched like nuclear war or Russians attacking.

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It was also Prince acting like an artist exploring new interests, rather than acting like some musical genus guru that makes hits in his sleep.

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Then again, maybe the cocain was just good, or having a female engineering presence in the booth with him just worked.

PoorLonelyComputer said:

databank said:

Guys, could we like... raise the level of the debate? Because "Meh double meh" and "This album is good and those songs are not bad"... no offense but those comments are meaningless, kinda primary school level of critical argumentation and expression of personal opinions. I don't mean to start a fight with u guys so please don't get mad at me but if we could skip all the "this song sucks " and "that album is good" comments and try and explain WHY we believe such thing is good and such thing isn't (or why we dislike or like them) then maybe at long last this forum could become an interesting place of debate.

Peace

TRANSLATION: "I don't like it when you talk about Prince's 80's stuff being better because the truth of that makes me uncomfortable so can you please stop kthnxbye" You're welcome.

BS. I don't care what ur opinion is. For all I care u can say that 20Ten is better than SOTT is u ain't gonna xplain y it's worth shit to me. Perdiod.

Ppenguin said:

databank said:

Well what I said above: u can't just come and say this is good this is bad, it's meaningless, u have to defend/explain your opinion. Can u imagine buying a movies magazine and each review is one line-long: "Thor is good", "Star Trek is great", "Hulk really sucks". How many issues of that magazine would u buy?

It's just opinion...it's all it ever is for anyone but just one glance on this site tells you that most are feeling the same vibe. I'll try to justify it though - I feel, before he was 'free' his songs had a complexity in structure and a polish that hasn't been widely evident since. Multi layers crisp vocals, clever lyrics etc went out of the window but reappeared on such projects as 3121, parts if musicology etc and, for me, that was what he displayed in bucket loads through his best years. Some of the stuff he puts out over he last decade though feels like it's just been 'that'll do'. Look at the Fixurlifeup especially the lyrics - that is the work of a high school band not a musical genius ....in my opinion

Thanks for elaborating. regarding ur first sentence I'd like to remember that expressing an opinion involes sentences such as "I think that" or "I like", not "this is good " or "this is bad". I understand of course that u skipped those parts of the sentence and didn't necessarly mean to make a definitive statement by doing so, but most people here tend to forget the difference between what they think and what IS, and that's what I was trying to empazinse

novabrkr said:

Rick James put out his first record when he was 30.

I think it's more about just learning the trade within the first 5-10 years and then when you start perhaps stretching to other things you might lose your focus. Of course, during the 80s and the 90s trends were still changing rapidly, so many artists simply couldn't keep up their craft when things around them changed.

Rick James had a much more shorter career than P in terms of what is generally considered to be groundbreaking. His first 4 albums from 79 to 81 and the first Mary Jane Girls album in 83 left an impression, the rest of it is often considered uninteresting music (which, to some extent, I disagree with, but it is nonetheless my impression that his music lost most of its intensity and integrity after Street Songs, and that's from someone who owns each and every one of his albums including side projects and enjoy listening to them all).

Replica said:

Nikeze said:

I think because he was in his mid to late 20's of age. A time when you've still got that youthful energy, drive....cockyness, but can back it up. Your mind is at it's most creative before the late 20's early 30's doubts start creeping in.

And most importantly, I think he had the savvy to know that, and he had the discipline to work himself bloody hard.

For me I think yes he did have others to influence, but it's more likely just feeding the monster the merest titbit, and he was then adding the meat and potatos and taking it to an end point. I imagine he was a fkin tornado around the studio at that time. Must have been incredible to be witness.

James Brown was at his creative peak in his 30s, and it lasted until he was about 40 imho.

Sly Stone was 28 when they released There's A Riot Going On. My Favourite of theirs. And 30 WHen Fresh came out. Almost just as good imo.

Miles Davis was 44 when Bitches Brew was released I think

John Lennon was 31 When he released Imagine.

Yeah, I guess the peak is often around late 20s to early 30s. And often it starts right after becoming 20. However I think it has alot to do with when your career starts. Cause everything changes after you get big. Your struggle gets different.

Fair enough

paulludvig said:

databank said:

That's what I've read in books/articles/interviews, I only know what I've read.

The '77 Lorin Park sessions were jazz influenced.

I'd say jazz funk, i.e. they may have been familiar with The Crusaders or Herbie Hancock's 70's outputs, but not necessarly with swing, hardbop or jazz fusion à la Bitches Brew.

As many have said here, Prince was young, rebelious, talent that was hungry. He also surrounded himself with a wealth of talented musicians in their own right that created great synergy with his bands and thus provided us great music. Another reason why Prince had to be great was that he also had great talent he had to go up against. He was fighting for room at the top of the music scene with Michael Jackson, Madonna and all the other great 80's acts. So Prince really had to shine during this era when music was real.

TrevorAyer said:

the 80s music was great all around because it was that special phase in culture when people were rejecting shitty corporate pop music and new unique sounds could thrive .. the music industry killed this era dead and we are back to a handful of shitty artists making crap music who dominate the airwaves .. think disco and then the death of disco .. pop music must die again .. smaller labels must rise again .. people need to stop buying music they hear on tv comercials and garbage like american idol and support small time music that is actually good and real sounding .. wb used to be great about producing artists that do not fit the pop mold but make great music .. prince was one of them .. prince is no longer an artist .. he is just product .. boring lifeless product for stupid people who have never heard good music .. nothing truly good since wb ..

the other reason prince was so good back then was because he had a great group of musicians he could steal ideas from all the time and who could embelish his ideas to their maximum potential .. people take the 'prince did everything himself' notion way to seriously .. its like an ok lead actor with an amazing supporting cast that makes the lead look better than he is .. prince cant hang without his talented musicians .. 20 years of post wb shit proves this fact beyond any doubt and will stand up in a court of law so dont even try to dismiss it as opinion ..

prince believed the bs that he could do it all himself .. he went from changing a band member here and there due to their leaving of their own valition .. to flat out firing his whole band every few years .. the dynamic shifted from all for one one for all to all for prince and no one else .. and the music has suffered ever since

[Edited 5/15/14 5:24am]

Not to contradict what u say about the 80's because I mostly agree but it's funny because I remember the 90's when being glamorous was like forbidden and everyone from indie rock to trip-hop to rap to whatever had to dress very casually on stage and look very "normal" and at this time EVERYONE from my generation (I was 20 in 96) used to claim that the 80's were the peak of commercial BS in music, and I remember telling everyone "u c, now everyone worships the 70's and 70's music and I can tell u in 10 years everyone will be paying homage to the 80's and 80's music because there's a 20 years nostalgia phenomenon" and everybody would laugh at me like "NEVER u fool" and as early as 2000 when Madonna released Music I knew I had won my bet and by 2005 we witnessed a massive electrofunk/synthpop/new wave/post-punk revival that started furtively with electroclash and soon invaded the whole music scene and now in 2014 the 80's are still all over the place (but I can now hear some early 90's sounds furtively making their way into music ).

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As for P's bandmembers I don't think the ones from the 80's were necessarly better or more challenging musicians then in the 90's and beyond, just that somehow anyone who came before the late 80's were the same age category and felt they were entitled to challenge Prince as composers/musicians, when everyone who came later felt they were working for one of the world's biggest superstar and most talented musicians in the world and were sincerely impressed by P's status/talent and knew better than to open their mouth and lose their job. I won't say where I heard this from but rumors claim that Ronnie Brunner who's an AWESOME musicians didn't last more than one day at Paisley Park last year because he behaved very arrogantly with P, trying to teach him lessons about music. Obviously P respects him a lot as a musician (he streamed his "audition" on the next day) but nonetheless he didn't give him the job. Of course P would have better tried to have a democratic unit à la Tin Machine at least every once in a while but that's not in his character to be democratic and it certainly wasn't in 1985, it's just that he was still eager to learn.

Replica said:

TrevorAyer said:

the 80s music was great all around because it was that special phase in culture when people were rejecting shitty corporate pop music and new unique sounds could thrive .. 1. the music industry killed this era dead and we are back to a handful of shitty artists making crap music who dominate the airwaves .. think disco and then the death of disco .. pop music must die again .. smaller labels must rise again .. people need to stop buying music they hear on tv comercials and garbage like american idol and support small time music that is actually good and real sounding .. wb used to be great about producing artists that do not fit the pop mold but make great music .. prince was one of them .. prince is no longer an artist .. he is just product .. boring lifeless product for stupid people who have never heard good music .. nothing truly good since wb ..

the other reason prince was so good back then was because he had a great group of musicians he could steal ideas from all the time and who could embelish his ideas to their maximum potential .. 2. people take the 'prince did everything himself' notion way to seriously .. its like an ok lead actor with an amazing supporting cast that makes the lead look better than he is .. prince cant hang without his talented musicians .. 20 years of post wb shit proves this fact beyond any doubt and will stand up in a court of law so dont even try to dismiss it as opinion ..

prince believed the bs that he could do it all himself .. he went from changing a band member here and there due to their leaving of their own valition .. to flat out firing his whole band every few years .. the dynamic shifted from all for one one for all to all for prince and no one else .. and the music has suffered ever since

[Edited 5/15/14 5:24am]

1. Independent music has never been bigger than today. The difference is that independent are actual independent as in having their own little studio in their own little apartment. The underground scenes are more in the bedrooms and internet rather than live instrumentation in clubs. Even though this still exists very much. Actually because of the streaming and downloading era, alot of labels don't put their money in developing artists. So artists are more on their own right now. Good thing is, they now have the technology to do it entirly by themselves without using very much money, and the sound quality will be alot better than Dirty Mind even if you record it in your living room. The bad thing is that it's mad difficult for artists to be heard through all that distraction we have today. And the competition is way different. It's not about who is best live, it's about who is delivering the most instantly addictive songs wether it's great hooks, deep bass or wild hihats... The game has changed. New rules. Music is is just adapting to the environment we're living in. If one thinks that music today sucks, one should make better music and make people love it? Why don't people love it? Because it's not good enough! Well I think it's good enough. Does my opinion matter if nobody else loves it? We can't blame people for having no clue. If they don't, then we need to educate them, and not hate on them.

2. I don't agree with this. He is best with a great band that's true, but he isn't wack without them. You can never prove that Prince got worse because he stopped working with The Revolution. However one can say that it has gone down hill since. That's a difference. The factors you decide are the main factors, might not be the main factors at all. It's just speculation. I've been listening to Wendy & Lisa albums, as well as Brown Mark and been checking out this FDeluxe thing just to try and find out what I think of it. It's not like they're proving to be some genuises that was the brain behind his music. Alot of their music sounded like Prince mild, and was using all these funky pop cliches that Prince had already abandoned. Comparing Slideshow with Sign of The Times... Slideshow sounds like generic 80s pop that tries to be avant garde with a little dramatic piano here and there, but that wah guitar is boring as F"#$ . Sign of The Times on the other hand is TOP NOTCH. And yeah they helped him with alot of songs for that album. But the end result compared is still that Prince beats the hell out of their duo work. Even his first album is imo better than all their albums.

It's obvious that The Revolution suffered more musically after Prince, than Prince after The Revolution. Atleast Prince has delivered a bunch of good songs, even though his albums as a whole usually has been very uneven. Prince recording the vocal arrangement of For You at the age of 19 is a great example of him being pretty damn good as an independent artist even before his style matured to the likes of Sexuality discussed in another thread.

No people are good in absolute vacum, as we are born social. It's in the human genes. However, even though he probably stole a whole lot of good stuff from band members. He could have easily done the same from other bands that he was competing against or favored. It's kinda like sampling, but playing it yourself instead. Everybody does it. Prince is not any different from anyone else when it comes to taking bits and pieces from other artists. He is just damn good at using it the right way. Or atleast he was.

I totally agree with the fact that people saying that music today is crap are clueless. The music provided by majors today is crap, yeah, but that's not where it happens anymore: where it happens is everywhere else, from small labels to unsigned bands who post their music on Soundcloud and Bandcamp. The music scene has never ever been so dynamic as it is today but if u trust ur radio and TV to let u know what's happening then yeah u sure gonna be disappointed.

joyinrepetition said:

As many have said here, Prince was young, rebelious, talent that was hungry. Hell yeah! He also surrounded himself with a wealth of talented musicians in their own right He still does that created great synergy with his bands and thus provided us great music. Synergy is still there but his authority or judgment hasn't been contested since the late 80's. Another reason why Prince had to be great was that he also had great talent he had to go up against. He was fighting for room at the top of the music scene with Michael Jackson, Madonna and all the other great 80's acts The competition is till high but slowly deserted the Top 40, so bad wasn't is still isn't aware of it. So Prince really had to shine during this era when music was real. Music is more real than ever but u need to burn ur TV and smash ur radio if u want to know about it.

databank said:

joyinrepetition said:

As many have said here, Prince was young, rebelious, talent that was hungry. Hell yeah! He also surrounded himself with a wealth of talented musicians in their own right He still does that created great synergy with his bands and thus provided us great music. Synergy is still there but his authority or judgment hasn't been contested since the late 80's. Another reason why Prince had to be great was that he also had great talent he had to go up against. He was fighting for room at the top of the music scene with Michael Jackson, Madonna and all the other great 80's acts The competition is till high but slowly deserted the Top 40, so bad wasn't is still isn't aware of it. So Prince really had to shine during this era when music was real. Music is more real than ever but u need to burn ur TV and smash ur radio if u want to know about it.

Word!

joyinrepetition said:

databank said:

Word!

Drunk.

databank said:

I remember the 90's when being glamorous was like forbidden and everyone from indie rock to trip-hop to rap to whatever had to dress very casually on stage and look very "normal"

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Then you don't remember there were also songs about Bentleys, and Dom? Prince in Versace, holding a gold microphone, hanging out in front of a hot rod? Pretty certain the term "Hood Rich" was a 90's expression and Jacob the Jeweler was practically a household name.

Replica said:

It's obvious that The Revolution suffered more musically after Prince, than Prince after The Revolution.

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Is that fair to say? The Revolution didn't continue on musically as a group without Prince (for obvious reasons). A lot of good bands fail to generate good solo projects. Prince was a solo artist, first and foremost, and we know a lot of te Revolution banner was just placed over solo material, so of course his solo work should stand on it's own.

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Did Prince's work suffer without those collaborations? Kiiiind of. I can't think of a solid full record post 87'. Mind you, I think Lovesexy is comically bad, so I'll admit that's probably a unique opinion. I'm pretty sure every album has a classic I somehow associate with another record I liked more, but the polarizing, shamefully bad to the point of distracting songs just took center stage. I think the Revolution kept him more focused. He was writing with other players in mind. Once the NPG session guys came into the picture they took some great songs and made them sound...kinda lame...which isn't something I remember the Revolution doing to old material.

treehouse said:

databank said:

I remember the 90's when being glamorous was like forbidden and everyone from indie rock to trip-hop to rap to whatever had to dress very casually on stage and look very "normal"

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Then you don't remember there were also songs about Bentleys, and Dom? Prince in Versace, holding a gold microphone, hanging out in front of a hot rod? Pretty certain the term "Hood Rich" was a 90's expression and Jacob the Jeweler was practically a household name.

Yeah, and everyone was making fun of Prince because of his colorful outfits (not hipsters but everyone else) for being a relic of the 80's, and I'm sorry but whoever considers that "hood rich" and wearing expensive... sportswear (!) and gold chains is glamorous in the eccentric sense the 80's (and before them glam rock and disco) meant it is... well, I think "vulgar" is the accurate word. Every dope dealers and pseudo-gangsta-wannabees I met in the street back then wore the same clothes and jewelry (though cheapest versions of them) as the "hood riches" in the music videos. So I wouldn't exactly say that goldteeth rappers didn't look "normal" when everybody was dressing exactly like them (it was either that or skatepunk/grunge or clubber, the latest being the least remnant of some kind of a desire to be glamorous though in a very discreet way). More precisely the rappers' look was only a look that was casual in the street way before it became a stars' thing.

treehouse said:

Replica said:

It's obvious that The Revolution suffered more musically after Prince, than Prince after The Revolution.

.

Is that fair to say? The Revolution didn't continue on musically as a group without Prince (for obvious reasons). A lot of good bands fail to generate good solo projects. Prince was a solo artist, first and foremost, and we know a lot of te Revolution banner was just placed over solo material, so of course his solo work should stand on it's own.

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Did Prince's work suffer without those collaborations? Kiiiind of. I can't think of a solid full record post 87'. Mind you, I think Lovesexy is comically bad, so I'll admit that's probably a unique opinion. I'm pretty sure every album has a classic I somehow associate with another record I liked more, but the polarizing, shamefully bad to the point of distracting songs just took center stage. I think the Revolution kept him more focused. He was writing with other players in mind. Once the NPG session guys came into the picture they took some great songs and made them sound...kinda lame...which isn't something I remember the Revolution doing to old material.

Prince wrote Diamonds And Pearls and with other players in mind, specifically the NPG, and most those tracks were composed and recorded in a row with the band. The NPG didn't "take some songs", the songs were composed and arranged for (often with) them.

'Why was '85-'87 such a great period?'

We were young and the things we heared were fresh and new.

treehouse said:

mordang said:

'Why was '85-'87 such a great period?'

We were young and the things we heared were fresh and new.

Thank you.

databank said:

treehouse said:

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Then you don't remember there were also songs about Bentleys, and Dom? Prince in Versace, holding a gold microphone, hanging out in front of a hot rod? Pretty certain the term "Hood Rich" was a 90's expression and Jacob the Jeweler was practically a household name.

Yeah, and everyone was making fun of Prince because of his colorful outfits (not hipsters but everyone else) for being a relic of the 80's, and I'm sorry but whoever considers that "hood rich" and wearing expensive... sportswear (!) and gold chains is glamorous in the eccentric sense the 80's (and before them glam rock and disco) meant it is... well, I think "vulgar" is the accurate word. Every dope dealers and pseudo-gangsta-wannabees I met in the street back then wore the same clothes and jewelry (though cheapest versions of them) as the "hood riches" in the music videos. So I wouldn't exactly say that goldteeth rappers didn't look "normal" when everybody was dressing exactly like them (it was either that or skatepunk/grunge or clubber, the latest being the least remnant of some kind of a desire to be glamorous though in a very discreet way). More precisely the rappers' look was only a look that was casual in the street way before it became a stars' thing.

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I frankly don't understand where you're going with the stream of thoughts in your reply.

The 90's had a work wear and flannel era, and there was also a throwback jersey and Timbs fad, but those throwbacks weren't cheap, and this was also the start of ridiculous Paris Hilton trashy spending kind of glamour.

People made fun of Prince because he was wearing chain armor veils and pants with the booty cut out.

If you're saying he looked out of step, that's very true, but one major reason is he wore tight clothes when everyone else was baggy.

databank said:

. The NPG didn't "take some songs", the songs were composed and arranged for (often with) them.

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What? I said they took some great songs, as in Prince's back catalog of hits, that predated them, and weren't composed or arranged for them, and made them sound kinda lame.

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I'm of of the opinion the NPG versions of the 85-87 material were not the best versions. Get it now?

mordang said:

'Why was '85-'87 such a great period?'

We were young and the things we heared were fresh and new.

There are a lot of younger new fans descovering that period and it's fresh & new to them too

that music/period is timeless

People are acting like there is a correlation between the disbanding of the Revolution and the quality of Prince's music. I think either Prince was running out of ideas or changing his sound to keep up with the times regardless of the Revolution's presence. They could been kept around and he still would have done Batman, Graffiti Bridge, and D&P. Only now all of you would be saying, "Damn, Prince should have gotten rid of the Revolution. They were dragging him down."

The fact that none of the Revolution members did anything groundbreaking after leaving tells me they were out of ideas, too. All successful creative people have a time when their talent, vision, and ambitions line up perfectly with the larger cultural outlook and they burn hot for a moment. Then the culture changes and they either adapt or fall by the wayside.

lrn36 said:

People are acting like there is a correlation between the disbanding of the Revolution and the quality of Prince's music. I think either Prince was running out of ideas or changing his sound to keep up with the times regardless of the Revolution's presence. They could been kept around and he still would have done Batman, Graffiti Bridge, and D&P. Only now all of you would be saying, "Damn, Prince should have gotten rid of the Revolution. They were dragging him down."

The fact that none of the Revolution members did anything groundbreaking after leaving tells me they were out of ideas, too. All successful creative people have a time when their talent, vision, and ambitions line up perfectly with the larger cultural outlook and they burn hot for a moment. Then the culture changes and they either adapt or fall by the wayside.

history speaks for itself.

Prince talked about people in his band who would 'challenge' a direction or a sound or such, after that band/period, Prince really had a bunch of yes men. And everything happens as a result of something else, Batman could have been a different sounding album, Batman could have been followed or accompanied by Rave, the Graffiti Bridge movie could have been called something else(he did talk about the concept of this movie during 1985) maybe it would have happend soooner. If his cash flow wasn't low he probably would not have done D&P

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Them doing anything groundbreaking doesn't mean anything. Many people (even them if you read things they've said about their place in his band and in music) don't believe they were meant to be the 'frontman' many people/gifts actually shine in a different place. If all those American Idols singers realized they all won't 'make it' they may audition for Anita Baker Cher Tina Turner or whoever else needs a back up singer/dancer/musician and their name and talent will shine then.

U put a bunch of people who were hungry with you and believed in your vision, together, you get an explosion of creativity. Point is, everyone who came after 1988 met SuperStar Prince, not the Prince that was still trying to make it. Many of them it was just a stopping point: Mayte wasn't even a fan of Prince, Tommy B was their to get a check like many of them, Tony M didn't respect Prince's cultural expression...feeling he needed to be 'blacker' etc so who you have around you or not can affect creative output and quality.

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Another thing, Prince got a lot of inspiration for song writing/lyrics from talks and sharing with those in his circle and what was happening in life(his and theirs and outside of that) As well as female persuasion inspiration. Music reflects life etc so

lrn36 said:

The fact that none of the Revolution members did anything groundbreaking after leaving tells me they were out of ideas, too.

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You're now the second person to repeat that sentiment, judging a band for their solo projects in order to project, then dismiss what their output would have been like as a band. That's absurd.

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Wendy and Lisa actually have been nominated for their soundtrack work.