treehouse said:

novabrkr said:

"Purple Rain" and "The Ladder". You don't think a track like "When Doves Cry" could seque perfectly into "Pop Life" on a record? (It did, on The Hits 1 compilation.)

Both albums also rely on heavy drum machine beats driving the music, synth riffs and breakdowns, reverberated guitar wails, use of flanger on elements that you wouldn't expect it on and so on... The recording sessions for the ATWIAD tracks started pretty much as soon as they had wrapped up PR, so that explains it in practical terms. Parade, however, is a whole lot different concoction altogether.

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Hmmm, no. Pop Life opens with a good seque from Doves Cry, but just because they sound good in sequence doesn't prove much. It's nothing alike... Not thematically.... Nor in instrumentation where the bass line is key. Backing vocals are approached very differently in the song's structure. Pop Life's random cut in of the boxing sample, and all around musicality is a huge difference... Doves is a darker new wave song with a rock guitars, and Pop Life lacks that same edge. To me that overshadows whatever the looping, or flanger effects or drum machine they have in common. Did you hear these records when they were released? These weren't subtle differences in 1985.

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I remember really wanting The Ladder to be the next Purple Rain when I first heard it, so I agree that you can make the comparison, but it just wasn't the same vibe. The instrumentation was not the same (horns!), nor were the technical aspects - it's recorded brighter. It's more gospel and soul than blues.

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I'm sure there are people who would side with you on this, and it's something that might be a good thread of it's own (if it hasn't already been), but again, this is all just an academic exercise anyway that kind of misses the larger point.

Fans weren't relating to AWIAD as a sequel to Purple Rain, so intellectualizing it today doesn't give much insight into how audiences reacted, and the perception of the Revolution.

[Edited 5/13/14 3:30am]

I don't agree with you on those tracks being that different stylistically, but I can definitely appreciate your perspective on it as being a fan during that time. I know that smaller changes might have seem bigger then what they seem now. I was a bit too young then and recall hearing both tracks for the first time in the early-90s. TMBGITW and the Come album tracks seemed like an entirely new direction for Prince after the symbol album to me back then, so yes, I can relate.

The biggest difference instrumentation-wise between PR and ATWIAD is that the former relies on analog synthesis (mainly the Oberheim ones), while the latter uses the Yamaha DX7 digital FM synthesis a whole lot. What's missing for the large part from ATWIAD are the massive analog patches (except from The Ladder?). I've made the guess here before that one reason why Prince might have gone for the "ethnic" sounds back then was that they were suddenly available in abundance when units like the DX7 came out.

I don't deny that most fans don't see them as sequels (most would probably see 1999 and PR linked together). To me, productionwise, there is just a bigger leap from ATWIAD to Parade than there is from PR to ATWIAD. The way the compositions and the mixes work on Parade is just something else altogether.

[Edited 5/13/14 5:37am]

treehouse said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ATWIAD to me thought feels/sounds like Purple Rain with some more instrumentation. Parade music almost stands on it's own, but with that protege music and a lot of the (other) songs created between 1985-1986 leads us into the Dream Factory/SOTT touch

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Waterfalls doesn't sound like ATWIAD or Parade directly but it does sound like Guitar, too me.

You are right, U Got the Look did get others attention. Maybe that it came with a video and SOTT(single) didn't? I mean, here is another example of Prince not promoting an album. Yeah we got the movie, (tricked again by the Rude boy, because most people were expecting a movie, not a concert film)

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Purple Rain had all that minimalist new wave, and the standard rock n' roll blues stuff singing about heartbreak and sex, in it. ATWIAD was all poppy and psychedelic with more spiritualism, less growling. I don't think you can confuse the two as the same sound or feeling...but anyway, I still think Purple Rain was actually the least Revolution-esque of the era despite how we identify it as their signature. I didn't mean to imply that the history isn't more intertwined, and grey. Still, their influences were heard more on the next two records. And if you were a fan and wanted more Purple Rain sounding stuff, you were better off buying 1999. W & L's single sounded like something fans wanted to hear Prince come out with.

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SOTT was released as a video. There were two. One was just the lyrics over a broadcast test pattern thing, and the other was pretty much an excerpt from the concert film with an intro too long to get regular airplay. I also remember a parental advisory warning on MTV or something?

[Edited 5/12/14 13:33pm]

I think Purple Rain was much more layered than any of the album prior.

Raspberry Beret was a total hit. I'm not confusing the 2 as the same, many people here like to link up the albums by 2. like Dirty Mind/Controversy, 1999/Purple Rain, ATWIAD/Parade, but the latter 2 are nothing alike both stand alone but PR ATWIAD & Parade brought us to the Dream Factory music very diverse mix of stuff. ATWIAD was recorded during the PR era the foundation of the album is very much Purple Rain but with a whole new direction with all kinds of new instrumentations.

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I still don't get who 'Revolution' sound is being defined. Purple Rain came first, what ended up on that album is an evolution of music they have been performing years before. I mean outside of the name the band has basically always been there except for Wendy. I think all 3 are Revolution sounding. 3 diverse albums Condition of the Heart is very much like God the Dance Electric(lyrical) especially when you hear it performed live. Parts of Temptation come out of God. Alexa de Paris is very much like God the Love theme(instrumental) ATWIAD the song was mostly created by David Coleman(with Prince the Revolution and a few others in there) Tamborine's wildness is very similar to Darling Nikki or Tick Tick Bang(81) I mean I hear more connection of ATWIAD with Purple Rain than Parade

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Whatever release of SOTT as a video I never saw. And what Prince through out there wasn't even a real attempt/promo. I didn't need the 2nd one because I saw/had the SOTT movie. I don't think Prince ever intended to release a video. That first non-visual SOTT video is no different than what he did with Paisley Park(assuming he did that)

But the Revolution members even though enjoyed the stretching out of sounds and experimenting(I don't think Bobby Z ever enjoyed the electronic drumming though) they weren't so sure on Prince taking such a drastic change in the music. Even listening to the Family music reheasals, it had a different touch but still very much like Purpl Rain sounds.

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I still don't understand the parental warnings on a lot of Prince's albums like they are some XXX piece of violent porn. Parade(get's a parental warning...for what? lol)

novabrkr said:

Nobody's denying the public perception of the two albums being very different. Of course ATWIAD had tons of psychedelia and weirdness added to it and that's what dominated many listeners perception of it.

However, without even getting into the more technical comparisons between the compositions, you sure can't have that much trouble spotting the stylistic similarities between "Take Me With U" and "Raspberry Beret", or "Purple Rain" and "The Ladder". You don't think a track like "When Doves Cry" could seque perfectly into "Pop Life" on a record? (It did, on The Hits 1 compilation.)

Both albums also rely on heavy drum machine beats driving the music, synth riffs and breakdowns, reverberated guitar wails, use of flanger on elements that you wouldn't expect it on and so on... The recording sessions for the ATWIAD tracks started pretty much as soon as they had wrapped up PR, so that explains it in practical terms. Parade, however, is a whole lot different concoction altogether.

I agree, ATWIAD is some type of 1999/Purple Rain with a lot of psychedelia on top it.

Tamborine stems from Darling Nikki's wildness and definately sound very much like Tick Tick Bang

a lot of the music is clearly an composition of music from previous albums with a lot of new instrumentations influences and such. Tempation/the Ladder his first song with the sax. If the Ladder had electric guitar and soloing it would be Free & Purple Rains cousin.

treehouse said:

funksterr said:

People forget that Prince was HIGHLY mocked for ATWIAD.

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People really do forget, don't they? The album wasn't that accessible, and I remember feeling a mix of emotions, good and bad.

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I don't remember people blaming the Revolution, but I'm pretty sure any change was welcomed with an "oh good, maybe Prince will go back to being Prince now"....and here we are 25 years later, and people still react the exact same way after every lineup change!

I will agree. I don't think anyone was expecting that diverse a change. But I fell in love with that whole project. Raspberry Beret though starting out was a hit. Not much different from Take Me With U, Manic Monday, I listen 2 Dance Electric and here American/Paisley Park.

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No I don't remember people blaming the Revolution either. I just don't remember that at all. I think people still new Prince was the head of direction.

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People can saw what they will that 1978-1989 was a wonderful time to be a Prince fan. As much as I would love PR follow up to include stuff like: Manic Monday, Lust U Always, Dance Electric, Roadhouse Garden, Our Destiny etc I LOVE ATWIAD

novabrkr said:

I don't deny that most fans don't see them as sequels (most would probably see 1999 and PR linked together). To me, productionwise, there is just a bigger leap from ATWIAD to Parade than there is from PR to ATWIAD. The way the compositions and the mixes work on Parade is just something else altogether.

[Edited 5/13/14 5:37am]

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Okay, so we at least agree on these points. Cool.

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ATWIAD also had different percussion/drums accenting the drum machines.

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"Darling Nikki" and "Take Me with You" were a gateway to Parade, for me. Something about the burlesque kind of melodies felt familiar enough for me, to feel like a more listenable Prince record. Not sure if others had this experience.

OldFriends4Sale said:

they weren't so sure on Prince taking such a drastic change in the music.

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I still don't understand the parental warnings on a lot of Prince's albums like they are some XXX piece of violent porn. Parade(get's a parental warning...for what? lol)

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Well I think you're acknowledging the unreleased material, and taking into account the historical context of things, where I'm sort of attempting to pretend we don't know what we know, and sharing what the climate may have been like for WB and fans.

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My understanding is The Revolution era was when he got exposed to a lot of music he'd never heard, so I credit that influence. I think ATWIAD, Parade, Dream, Roadhouase Garden, all sound like the same band.I guess SOTT mostly does too.