although i like it, for years something has been irking me about this outtake

and tonight it finally hit me that it sounds like just the extended portion that

would have been tagged onto the 'original' song.

/

hints for me is how the track starts immediately with vocals and the beat is

already rolling steady. it's as if you enter the song halfway through, even if

the lyrics do seem to 'take off' from that point from a narrative point of view.

also, the repetition on the musical theme, the screaming and add libs that

start within 2 minutes. for me, that all hints that it's only the last portion of a

longer mix. kind of like his extended or 12" versions of tracks on bsides, it

has that same feel. but without the actual song in front of it.

/

sure, this 'extended portion' is all we've ever had, but to me it now sounds

a lot like there might have been an actual song in front of this 7 minute bit

of 'jamming'.

/

so, my question is, does anyone know a bit more about this outtake and it's

emergence on the bootleg scene back in the day? princevault only has very

sparse information on it, so i'm guessing there just isn't that much known at

this point. but on this site you never know, people surprise you sometimes

with bits of information they've picked up over the years.

Always thought this too. And I'd adjust the running order in a playlist/expanded album to account for it, but butting up against the ass end of something that ended abruptly (probably Life Can Be So Nice, but it's been a long time).

good theory, although of course we may never know the answer.

Something of an oddball outtake yes, but I've always really liked it.

Yes, it's one of those outtakes that have been modified/tagged/whatever before being leaked/shared.

olb99 said:

Yes, it's one of those outtakes that have been modified/tagged/whatever before being leaked/shared.

Verified fact or personal theory?

databank said:

olb99 said:

Yes, it's one of those outtakes that have been modified/tagged/whatever before being leaked/shared.

Verified fact or personal theory?

Sorry, I should have been more clear: it's just a personal theory, based on a general feeling, after reading thousands of anecdotes by T and other "elite traders" since 1993.

Anyway, back to something more factual. "Charade" is one of the first bootlegs including "Heaven". When was it released?

olb99 said:

databank said:

Verified fact or personal theory?

Sorry, I should have been more clear: it's just a personal theory, based on a general feeling, after reading thousands of anecdotes by T and other "elite traders" since 1993.

Anyway, back to something more factual. "Charade" is one of the first bootlegs including "Heaven". When was it released?

Purchased it on CD in 91, seem 2 remember it existed on LP before (not sure). Probably goes back to as early as 88 or 89. Not sure, actually WHEN the first outtakes boots surfaced but I'd say more or less at the same time as TBA in 88.

databank said:

olb99 said:

Sorry, I should have been more clear: it's just a personal theory, based on a general feeling, after reading thousands of anecdotes by T and other "elite traders" since 1993.

Anyway, back to something more factual. "Charade" is one of the first bootlegs including "Heaven". When was it released?

Purchased it on CD in 91, seem 2 remember it existed on LP before (not sure). Probably goes back to as early as 88 or 89. Not sure, actually WHEN the first outtakes boots surfaced but I'd say more or less at the same time as TBA in 88.

I purchased Charade on LP in '88.

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Purchased it on CD in 91, seem 2 remember it existed on LP before (not sure). Probably goes back to as early as 88 or 89. Not sure, actually WHEN the first outtakes boots surfaced but I'd say more or less at the same time as TBA in 88.

I purchased Charade on LP in '88.

Interesting topic, I'm gonna make a thread about this

Posting this in this thread instead of the other one...

databank said:

olb99 said:

Exactly. Let's see...

Side A of "Charade" ("Little Girl Wendy's Parade" to "Old Friends 4 Sale") = 25:06

Side B of "Charade" ("In All My Dreams" to "Heaven") = 24:21

Looks like a 50-minute cassette tape...

Let's say the full/complete version of "Heaven" is longer (or way longer) than 7:12. It might have come from another tape, but, at the time, there weren't many studio outtakes, I guess, so they had to choose from one of the rare outtakes that were already circulating in 1986-87. And cut/edit it.

IF and I say IF it was edited it was very early in the food chain, because it resurfaced later with a much better quality but it starts just the same.

I never owned "Charade" (LP or CD). I started with tapes. Was the sound quality a lot worse than what we currently have? When you say "later", do you have a year or bootleg in mind?