LMFAO at Bart.

Dude, let it go. No one cares about it but you.

rebelenterprise said:

Well...maybe "Hell" is too strong of a word. Like I said, he is a rich & famous Legend. And Warner Bros. is alot of the reason why he became one, which is why I suppose he's back with them, other than FINALLY getting his masters back. Seeing what happened after Emancipation, every record label didn't give him as much support.

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Yes, it's the record labels fault that P behaves like a douche. Great thinking. Once again: the ONLY common denominator when it comes to P having bad relationships with EVERY GODDAMN RECORD LABEL EVER is... PRINCE.

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He did some things that didnt help that situation & he did say alot of bad stuff about the industry, but alot of it was true...that's why they're "scared" now I guess.

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Yeah, they're really scared about a guy who hasn't had a hit in decades.

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The rest of your post is so deluded I can't be arsed to respond to it.

BartVanHemelen said:

BlackandRising said:

Quite interesting that what Prince has been denigrated and dragged through the mud for seems like it is coming to fruition. Patience pays off. Gotta say, the man had a long-term vision, stuck to his guns, and it seems to be paying off.

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The delusion is strong in this one. P stomping his feet like a spoilt brat is "long-term vision"

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You know what would have been a long-term vision? NOT SIGNING A BAD CONTRACT YOUR ENTIRE ENTOURAGE WARNS YOU ABOUT.

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Sitting on your ass for 20 years isn't doing shit.

[img:$uid]http://whitsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/spongebob-meme-nobodycares.jpeg[/img:$uid]

jdcxc said:

Are you employed by a Major?

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Amazing. THE SAME STUPID RESPONSEP famz have been giving since 1994. Point out flaws in their resoning, point out that WB has been exceptionally good to Prince -- something P himself has admitted at times, by the way -- and it's "you must be working for a major". For chrissakes I point out multiple cases of artists gaining the rights to their back catalogue and even then this amazingly idiotic response gets dragged out.

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WB and every other multi-national corporation that control art do not negotiate in good faith.

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I'll give you a clue: THAT IS TRUE FOR EVERY EMPLOYER.

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P has been nothing short of revolutionary in his craft

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No he hasn't.

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You argue that P should've rejected the $100 mil contract. Why did WB present a deal that ripped off one of there most valued historical artists?

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BECAUSE THEY COULD. They never forced him to sign.

Aerogram said:

You think of Prince as your own musical butler who should have known his place and kept serving you just the way you like it, instead of acting like a "stubborn child" who doesn't like to "work hard".

Prince doesn't owe you or any of us anything. His mistakes are his and so are the consequences. He continued to record and perform all these years without your advice or his original label -- sounds like he could put a roof over his head and employ several people just fine. Of course you did not like his output or much of anything he did, but then again no one forced you to continue to listen and keep tabs.

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Nothing but unfounded personal attacks and irrelevant bullshit. Thank you for admitting I'm right.

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Now that the impossible has happened and that Prince signed a CONtract with Warners

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Which I said years ago was the ONLY way he'd regain control of his masters, and which was bitched about back then. Once again: I was proven right, famz were proven wrong.

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Yeah, it's not like those labels PAID FOR THAT MUSIC.

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And for the love of jebus, learn the difference between their, there and they're.

Instead of worrying about grammar.You should have taken sometime to read the article. Letigation was coming and that is what brought WB to the table.

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Baffling. How about YOU read the article: that law has been there for decades, now would be the first time it could be applied. But any adult will know that laws are INTERPRETED and that there are SIGNED CONTRACTS. Anyone who thinks labels were gonna hand over those rights just because there is a law is an idiot. Which is what I've been saying for years.

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The only reason this deal exists is because both sides had something to gain.

RodeoSchro said:

LMFAO at Bart.

Dude, let it go. No one cares about it but you.

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Yeah, that's why there are at least three personal attacks in this thread.

BartVanHemelen said:

XNY said:

Agreed. For all his tenacity and obstinance - to say the least - name another band or artist who've negotiated their entire catalog back ? (U2 may have, none other come to mind...)

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Metallica. When they renegociated their contract in 1994. Guess which record company? http://www.billboard.com/...recordings

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REM. In 1996. Guess which record company? http://articles.latimes.c...rner-bros Oh no wait, that was for the next five records they were going to make. They had already negotiated reversion of ownership rights to its current six-album Warner catalog.

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Plenty more like that. The Rolling Stones also own much of their back catalogue, everythign from 1971 on IIRC. FYI when the Stones signed with Decca back in the 1960s, "they got three times a new act's typical royalty rate, full artistic control of recordings, and ownership of the recording masters."

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Stop pretending Prince is unique. Plenty of other artists knew the value of those rights long before Prince and acted on that. Plenty of P bios will tell you P followed music classes in school which informed him of such deals. P got "screwed" because he AS A GROWN MAN was too obsessed with beating Michael Jackson's and Madonna's contracts and thus signed a "$100 million contract" that was a load of BS and did so AGAINST the advice of his entourage.

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P never cared much about his masters until it became clear to him that his new recording contract forced him to work hard to earn that money, i.e. sell 5+ million copies of each album, a feat he'd only managed twice before: with PR and with D&P -- and D&P was the result of lot of work, including a long worldwide tour.

Lies! What worldwide tour? Prince didn't tour the U.S 4 the D&P tour. It was only abroad..

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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The delusion is strong in this one. P stomping his feet like a spoilt brat is "long-term vision"

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You know what would have been a long-term vision? NOT SIGNING A BAD CONTRACT YOUR ENTIRE ENTOURAGE WARNS YOU ABOUT.

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Sitting on your ass for 20 years isn't doing shit.

How do you know that he has been sitting on his for 20 years doing nothing.This deal was probaly in the works for more than a year and who knows he may tried other deals in the past. You do not look to your entourage for business decisions at the end of the day you have to make the final decision. I know it is hard to admit it but Prince has more work ethic and persistence than most of the asshats in the music industry and he is going to laugh his ass to the bank now and you just need to get the fuck over it.

Exactly! Bart I swear he needs to get behind a therapist desk. He has some serious bitter Prince issues..

RodeoSchro said:

LMFAO at Bart.

Why? Because he's right, once again??

Thanks for the facts, Bart. Seems nobody here cares for them, they only want to see and hear what they like. P can't do wrong in their eyes....

I thought this community was for Prince fans....somebody in this thread is VERY mad that Prince has won his longtime battle ...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Metallica. When they renegociated their contract in 1994. Guess which record company? http://www.billboard.com/...recordings

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REM. In 1996. Guess which record company? http://articles.latimes.c...rner-bros Oh no wait, that was for the next five records they were going to make. They had already negotiated reversion of ownership rights to its current six-album Warner catalog.

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Plenty more like that. The Rolling Stones also own much of their back catalogue, everythign from 1971 on IIRC. FYI when the Stones signed with Decca back in the 1960s, "they got three times a new act's typical royalty rate, full artistic control of recordings, and ownership of the recording masters."

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Stop pretending Prince is unique. Plenty of other artists knew the value of those rights long before Prince and acted on that. Plenty of P bios will tell you P followed music classes in school which informed him of such deals. P got "screwed" because he AS A GROWN MAN was too obsessed with beating Michael Jackson's and Madonna's contracts and thus signed a "$100 million contract" that was a load of BS and did so AGAINST the advice of his entourage.

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P never cared much about his masters until it became clear to him that his new recording contract forced him to work hard to earn that money, i.e. sell 5+ million copies of each album, a feat he'd only managed twice before: with PR and with D&P -- and D&P was the result of lot of work, including a long worldwide tour.

Lies! What worldwide tour? Prince didn't tour the U.S 4 the D&P tour. It was only abroad..

"Abroad" is.......the rest of the world. So a "worldwide tour". No wonder the rest of the planet hates us Americans. If it doesn't include us, it doesn't count!

Let's not derail this thread, please.

Bart, you've presented a solid (if quite negative) viewpoint here with some good facts, but I think Prince deserves a lot more props than you're perhaps willing to admit for this deal.

Prince's catalog is unique. It's the cornerstone of Warner's catalog in the last 40 years. REM's 10 albums on Warners and Metallica's 5 albums on Elektra simply aren't comparable in value.

Prince's catalog.... you're talking 19 studio albums, dozens upon dozens of additional songs that came out on singles, soundtracks or elsewhere (Good Love, Sex, Horny Pony, Get Off, various extended versions and remixes etc). Plus a good chunk of protege albums that sold well, like Vanity 6 and The Time's material, which IIRC went at least gold, with possibly a few platinum singles like Jungle Love and Jerk Out, PLUS material that has been sampled in big hip-hop songs (for example, a lot of money is generated for Prince from 2Pac's "All Eyez On Me" album, the song "What'z Ya Phone #" is a sample from "777-9311", another song "Heartz Of Men" samples "Darling Nikki"). Prince songs being sampled in hip-hop is a HUGE revenue stream, the same can't be said for Metallica or REM.

Who owns the original recording of "Nothing Compares 2 U" now? Guessing Prince has regained ownership of that now too, another big revenue stream.

Regaining ownership of masters is not unprecedented in the sense that it's never happened before, but in terms of value I'd argue it is.

BartVanHemelen said:

Aerogram said:

Militant said:

Great article from Billboard Magazine's May 3rd issue, which sheds some light on the deal from an industry/label perspective and the precedent it's setting.

link

The April 18 announcement that Prince had re-signed with his first label, Warner Bros. Records, where he had resided from 1978 to 1996 and produced some of his best-selling and most compelling work, came as a shock to the music industry and fans alike. For one thing, the artist’s fallout with Warners had been so acrimonious that in 1993, Prince bizarrely changed his name to an unpronounceable symbol to protest his label’s insistence that he release less music (and not flood the market).

Even more surprising to industry insiders was the label’s announcement that it had given Prince ownership of the master tapes to all of his Warners albums. In addition to giving the artist the kind of control over his work that he has always sought, it was a lucrative deal. In 2013, his Warner Music Group catalog scanned 286,000 units, according to Nielsen SoundScan. If Prince had owned the catalog then, Billboard estimates his cut would have been nearly $1.7 million instead of the estimated $657,000 in royalties he would have been paid.

But it’s a sure bet that artists, their managers and their labels were paying attention to the deal for another reason: Industry executives suggest that although WMG’s negotiations with Prince began over the label’s desire to get the artist to cooperate with plans to reissue his records, a key issue on the table -- one that the industry is watching intently -- is Prince’s desire to reclaim his master recording copyrights under the 1976 Copyright Act. Under this legislation, an artist can regain control over a master recording copyright after the first 35-year term of that copyright expires.

Despite its title, the act took effect in 1978 -- copyrights to albums released that year and onward began to expire in 2013. As a result, in recent years, dozens of acts, including the Eagles, Billy Joel, The Police, Blondie and Journey, have filed termination notices, which sets the stage for a watershed moment that one label executive says “scares us silly.”

Not surprisingly, label executives say they prefer negotiation to litigation over termination notices for fear of triggering a landmark ­precedent-setting case. One says that since artists can only reclaim their master-recordings rights in the United States, a label might agree to pay enhanced international royalty rates, if a termination notice is waived. Or, a label may offer the master copyright when facing an artist’s audit or lawsuit over digital royalty payments.

Smaller-selling acts may find labels less responsive to termination notices because, executives say, in most cases the high cost of litigation will outweigh the economic benefits of reclaiming the copyrights.

A major-label executive observes, “There is a ripeness to when to address the issue.”

Note that the headline of the Billboard article is misleading. The label executive did not say Prince getting his masters back "scares us silly." He was referring to the prospect of litigation involving other artists.

Militant said:

jdcxc said:

Militant said:

Let's not derail this thread, please.

Bart, you've presented a solid (if quite negative) viewpoint here with some good facts, but I think Prince deserves a lot more props than you're perhaps willing to admit for this deal.

Prince's catalog is unique. It's the cornerstone of Warner's catalog in the last 40 years. REM's 10 albums on Warners and Metallica's 5 albums on Elektra simply aren't comparable in value.

Prince's catalog.... you're talking 19 studio albums, dozens upon dozens of additional songs that came out on singles or soundtracks (Good Love, Sex, Horny Pony, Get Off, various extended versions and remixes etc). Plus a good chunk of protege albums that sold well, like Vanity 6 and The Time's material, which IIRC went at least gold, with possibly a few platinum singles like Jungle Love and Jerk Out, PLUS material that has been sampled in big hip-hop songs (for example, a lot of money is generated for Prince from 2Pac's "All Eyez On Me" album, the song "What'z Ya Phone #" is a sample from "777-9311", another song "Heartz Of Men" samples "Darling Nikki"). Prince songs being sampled in hip-hop is a HUGE revenue stream, the same can't be said for Metallica or REM.

Who owns the original recording of "Nothing Compares 2 U" now? Guessing Prince has regained ownership of that now too, another big revenue stream.

Regaining ownership of masters is not unprecedented in the sense that it's never happened before, but in terms of value I'd argue it is.

Yes. And let's not forget the groundbreaking nature of the deal for Black artists- comparable only to the Ray Charles' master and publishing ownership landmarks. Also, the deal will only enhance the future value of his post WB work which is criminally underrated due to its volume, poor presentation and editing. Once that material, in the future, is reimagined under a different lens, there will be a new appreciation among true music lovers. Unlike REM or Metallica, Warners knows that P is still a genius on stage and relevant in the studio- which will only add to the value of their new partnership.

It doesn't seem fair to say that Metallica are irrelevant in the studio compared to Prince, especially when you consider that their last album Death Magnetic debuted at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, which is apparently their fifth consecutive album to do so.

BartVanHemelen said:

BlackandRising said:

Quite interesting that what Prince has been denigrated and dragged through the mud for seems like it is coming to fruition. Patience pays off. Gotta say, the man had a long-term vision, stuck to his guns, and it seems to be paying off.

.

The delusion is strong in this one. P stomping his feet like a spoilt brat is "long-term vision"

.

You know what would have been a long-term vision? NOT SIGNING A BAD CONTRACT YOUR ENTIRE ENTOURAGE WARNS YOU ABOUT.

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Sitting on your ass for 20 years isn't doing shit.

you know, if you hadn't added the thing about sitting on one's ass for 20 years, I may have taken you somewhat seriously. But say what you will about Prince, but he has a work ethic like no one else, and I would bet that he's accomplished more in say, a year than you have in all of your years posting about Prince. Even if he did make a mistake, he quite obviously sacrificed a lot in terms of his music, standing in the music world, etc., to get to this point. I for one applaud his tenacity. At least he wasn't sitting on his ass posting to Prince.org ad nauseum about something he didn't like.

BartVanHemelen said:

overdosethekatatonic said:

It was a total debacle of what WB put him through. If i'm understanding right he was getting his master's no matter what right since it was the Copyright Act right??

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Nope. You can bet your ass that WB would not have given up those rights just like that. Don't forget that P has signed numerous contracts over the years. This was going to be a court battle.

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Seriously, how naive are people? Yeah sure, WB was just gonna hand over that fairly lucrative back catalogue "because the law says so". Yeah, as if law isn't up for interpretation. I bet they had plenty of contracts with P's signature that could be used as proof that law didn't apply.

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No he wasn't.

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I'm just glad artists are getting there music period. No one else shuld own a song they didn't play on/write. thats straight up getting jacked!!

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Yeah, it's not like those labels PAID FOR THAT MUSIC.

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And for the love of jebus, learn the difference between their, there and they're.

Fair point, but who the hell is Jebus????

renfield said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Lies! What worldwide tour? Prince didn't tour the U.S 4 the D&P tour. It was only abroad..

"Abroad" is.......the rest of the world. So a "worldwide tour". No wonder the rest of the planet hates us Americans. If it doesn't include us, it doesn't count!

Worldwide tour means EVERYWHERE including the U.S.!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

renfield said:

"Abroad" is.......the rest of the world. So a "worldwide tour". No wonder the rest of the planet hates us Americans. If it doesn't include us, it doesn't count!

Worldwide tour means EVERYWHERE including the U.S.!

Well, not"everywhere". I don't think that say, India or Mongolia are going to be included in any of Prince's "worldwide" tours, nor those of many other western artists (I remember hearing about Iron Maiden playing in India recently, but that seems like an exception to the general rule.)

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Yeah, it's not like those labels PAID FOR THAT MUSIC.

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And for the love of jebus, learn the difference between their, there and they're.

Fair point, but who the hell is Jebus????

In case you're actually genuinely curious, it's a comical mispelling of "Jesus".

...

[Edited 4/27/14 6:37am]

BlackandRising said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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The delusion is strong in this one. P stomping his feet like a spoilt brat is "long-term vision"

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You know what would have been a long-term vision? NOT SIGNING A BAD CONTRACT YOUR ENTIRE ENTOURAGE WARNS YOU ABOUT.

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Sitting on your ass for 20 years isn't doing shit.

you know, if you hadn't added the thing about sitting on one's ass for 20 years, I may have taken you somewhat seriously. But say what you will about Prince, but he has a work ethic like no one else, and I would bet that he's accomplished more in say, a year than you have in all of your years posting about Prince. Even if he did make a mistake, he quite obviously sacrificed a lot in terms of his music, standing in the music world, etc., to get to this point. I for one applaud his tenacity. At least he wasn't sitting on his ass posting to Prince.org ad nauseum about something he didn't like.

Lets be real,, NPR said best, Princes catalog is the most important collection of music in the last 40 years..They go one to state that the only other catalog that is compatrable would be the Beatles... bart, and whomever can hate, debate etc that to death and its not gonna change the valuation or truth..Even if P is a douche, he still got the motherload of songs

[Edited 4/27/14 6:58am]

lwr001 said:

BlackandRising said:

you know, if you hadn't added the thing about sitting on one's ass for 20 years, I may have taken you somewhat seriously. But say what you will about Prince, but he has a work ethic like no one else, and I would bet that he's accomplished more in say, a year than you have in all of your years posting about Prince. Even if he did make a mistake, he quite obviously sacrificed a lot in terms of his music, standing in the music world, etc., to get to this point. I for one applaud his tenacity. At least he wasn't sitting on his ass posting to Prince.org ad nauseum about something he didn't like.

Lets be real,, NPR said best, Princes catalog is the most important collection of music in the last 40 years..They go one to state that the only other catalog that is compatrable would be the Beatles... bart, and whomever can hate, debate etc that to death and its not gonna change the valuation or truth..Even if P is a douche, he still got the motherload of songs

[Edited 4/27/14 6:58am]

Prince always knew his worth. That is why he held out for so long 4 a better deal. He is the smartest musician on the planet! He is having the last laugh now..

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

databank said:

Fair point, but who the hell is Jebus????

In case you're actually genuinely curious, it's a comical mispelling of "Jesus".

4 realz? I was just teasing Bart cuz I thought he'd made a typo (which was fun in a sentence about proper spelling)

vc40 said:

RodeoSchro said:

LMFAO at Bart.

Why? Because he's right, once again??

Thanks for the facts, Bart. Seems nobody here cares for them, they only want to see and hear what they like. P can't do wrong in their eyes....

everyone can do wrong..the best and brightest make shitty decison all the time (Jobs Next computer, LISA etc) (gates, Zune, WIN 8) the list can go on and on...Bart acts like P took his ball anbd went home after he jeft WB but he didnt..he played the long game. Kristen Scott said recently, that he is the only artist she knows that after 30 years in the business still approaches new projects and the creation of musis as if heis a new artist with the same passion.

BartVanHemelen said:

Aerogram said:

You think of Prince as your own musical butler who should have known his place and kept serving you just the way you like it, instead of acting like a "stubborn child" who doesn't like to "work hard".

Prince doesn't owe you or any of us anything. His mistakes are his and so are the consequences. He continued to record and perform all these years without your advice or his original label -- sounds like he could put a roof over his head and employ several people just fine. Of course you did not like his output or much of anything he did, but then again no one forced you to continue to listen and keep tabs.

.

Nothing but unfounded personal attacks and irrelevant bullshit. Thank you for admitting I'm right.

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Now that the impossible has happened and that Prince signed a CONtract with Warners

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Which I said years ago was the ONLY way he'd regain control of his masters, and which was bitched about back then. Once again: I was proven right, famz were proven wrong.