This thing with Rita Ora got me thinking. Dig if you will, a picture....

Beyonce/Rihanna/Katy Perry/Bruno Mars/, or anyone of their current status and popularity releases a new single. It's a huge smash. It's catchy, funky, and fun. It becomes one of the biggest songs of the year. But nobody knows who this person is who produced it. All the credits say is "Produced and written by Eos Fire" (This is a name I just made up, btw. Kinda dumb, but insert your own. Nothing obvious that includes the word "Starr" or "Coco" or any pseudonym he's used before)

The PR company of this artist runs an undercover viral campaign around the phrase "Who Is Eos Fire?" and gets the blogs buzzing. The song hits #1. It's everywhere. A couple of weeks later, BAM! Another one of those Beyonce/Rihanna/Bruno etc artists comes out with a song. It's another smash. Same situation. Everyone's trying to find out where these productions and songs came from. Nobody seems to know. All sorts of rumors are flying around. People think it might be Andre 3000, or 7 Aurelius. People are asking the artists in every interview, but all they say is "The song was sent to us through our management."

Two weeks later, Prince (via Epic Records) drops a new song out of nowhere, with a huge marketing campaign, a music video, and announces a full arena tour at the same time in collaboration with Live Nation or AEG. It's advertised everywhere. But, he insists that only his new song can be used in the advertisements for the tour on radio, TV and online. It's a full on minimal electronic catchy funk pop guitar extravaganze, halfway between Kiss and Black Sweat, and just as catchy. A feelgood summer song, one of those songs that you just know will be everywhere the first time you hear it.

3/4's through the song, it breaks down to a funky drumbeat and guitar strums, then out of nowhere, Prince yells, "Eos Fire, jacking my style! You better jump off, NPG get wild!"

And in that moment, we all know. It's "Jamie Starr is a thief" redux. And minds are blown.

This daydream was brought to you by Militant....

Militant said:

This thing with Rita Ora got me thinking. Dig if you will, a picture....

Beyonce/Rihanna/Katy Perry/Bruno Mars/, or anyone of their current status and popularity releases a new single. It's a huge smash. It's catchy, funky, and fun. It becomes one of the biggest songs of the year. But nobody knows who this person is who produced it. All the credits say is "Produced and written by Eos Fire" (This is a name I just made up, btw. Kinda dumb, but insert your own. Nothing obvious that includes the word "Starr" or "Coco" or any pseudonym he's used before)

The PR company of this artist runs an undercover viral campaign around the phrase "Who Is Eos Fire?" and gets the blogs buzzing. The song hits #1. It's everywhere. A couple of weeks later, BAM! Another one of those Beyonce/Rihanna/Bruno etc artists comes out with a song. It's another smash. Same situation. Everyone's trying to find out where these productions and songs came from. Nobody seems to know. All sorts of rumors are flying around. People think it might be Andre 3000, or 7 Aurelius. People are asking the artists in every interview, but all they say is "The song was sent to us through our management."

Two weeks later, Prince (via Epic Records) drops a new song out of nowhere, with a huge marketing campaign, a music video, and announces a full arena tour at the same time in collaboration with Live Nation or AEG. It's advertised everywhere. But, he insists that only his new song can be used in the advertisements for the tour on radio, TV and online. It's a full on minimal electronic catchy funk pop guitar extravaganze, halfway between Kiss and Black Sweat, and just as catchy. A feelgood summer song, one of those songs that you just know will be everywhere the first time you hear it.

3/4's through the song, it breaks down to a funky drumbeat and guitar strums, then out of nowhere, Prince yells, "Eos Fire, jacking my style! You better jump off, NPG get wild!"

And in that moment, we all know. It's "Jamie Starr is a thief" redux. And minds are blown.

This daydream was brought to you by Militant....

I'm not so sure so many people got it when he released 1999: he didn't have a reputation as a ghostwriter yet, he was nothing near as big as he is today and we saw that until Prince revealed the list on the Nude Tour program and Uptown/Nielsen did their research even some fans didn't know the full scope of his ghostwriting, let alone the general public, + some of the artists kept lying about it for years (Sheila E. anyone?). For chrissakes even today Princevault STILL claims that Carmen Electra wrote the lyrics she received credit for ()!

Today would b different, Prince better play hide and seek for good if he doesn't want the news to be on the front page of every music and gossip website the day he hints at it for the first time. It would be a nice scenario but to keep it real fun P would have to keep it a secret for at least a couple of years before revealing it. And with the internet and all the leaks IDK if it's even possible nowadays. And there's also the problem of ASCAP and the Library of Congress: now anyone has access to these information thru the net.

+ how LAME would the songs he'd have to give these artists need to be in order to be hits, conisdering the pity condition of the Top 100 in 2014?

But it sure would b lotsa fun

I hear what you're saying, but the same reasons that Prince's own songs aren't hits would most likely translate into the same problems for anyone recording his new songs.

.

The problems in Prince's music lately is not the vocals, and is rarely the music (except in cases such as Guitar where it sounds like it's ripped off from other artists). The problem is the lyrical content -- it's either silly/jibberish or it's heavily JW-leaning. Or, it's just a song that only Prince can sing because, well, he's Prince.

.

His work "lately" with Bria Valente and Andy Allo did not exactly set the world on fire, and his work with Liv Warfield (even though on Letterman) will probably not make musical waves either.

.

I think one of the main roadblocks to your concept is that Prince's songs (even when they're good) still sound like a Prince song with different vocals. In the RARE case of Manic Monday or Nothing Compares 2 U (e.g.) they were given new life. In cases such as The Time, Vanity 6/Apollonia 6/Martika/Tevin Campbell/etc. they all sound like Prince.

.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to hear Prince's songs by other artists . . . I am saying that your idea that they'll automatically be "hits" or PR extravanganzas probably wouldn't happen.

Prince worked with Janelle Monae and "Giving Em What You Love" is hands down one of the standouts off her Electric Lady album (and should've been released as a single).

See? You never know, I personally think that song outdids every Prince song released in the last 3 years, and he co produced it, co arranged it maybe...

I think if Prince finds somebody to trust, somebody talented and ready to go far from the usual pop formula, I think he'll manage to put on something exciting for the generations. For me, Bruno Mars can do too much with Prince (he's already one of his biggest fans) but Prince doesn't like his .... his... I don't know, maybe his maisntreamness or image? (Actually P never said anything about anyone but I'm sure he avoids him). All I'm saying they both get funky on stage like no other today and I'm sure a Bruno & P collaboration will SMASH literally, especially that Bruno's name will guarantee the top 10 maybe number one position, and his retro / 80s guy / cool guy / james brown funk guy image along side Prince's known reputation as a legendary shreder / purple one will have everyone digging to that record. Can't wait for that to happen.


Your story is cool btw, but since you asked if Prince should ghostwrite for someone, nah man, why getting back to that? Beyoncé, Bruno and all these guys WILL die to have Prince in their album liner notes, it's fucking Prince already..

Shawy89 said:

Prince worked with Janelle Monae and "Giving Em What You Love" is hands down one of the standouts off her Electric Lady album (and should've been released as a single).

See? You never know, I personally think that song outdids every Prince song released in the last 3 years, and he co produced it, co arranged it maybe...

I think if Prince finds somebody to trust, somebody talented and ready to go far from the usual pop formula, I think he'll manage to put on something exciting for the generations. For me, Bruno Mars can do too much with Prince (he's already one of his biggest fans) but Prince doesn't like his .... his... I don't know, maybe his maisntreamness or image? (Actually P never said anything about anyone but I'm sure he avoids him). All I'm saying they both get funky on stage like no other today and I'm sure a Bruno & P collaboration will SMASH literally, especially that Bruno's name will guarantee the top 10 maybe number one position, and his retro / 80s guy / cool guy / james brown funk guy image along side Prince's known reputation as a legendary shreder / purple one will have everyone digging to that record. Can't wait for that to happen.


Your story is cool btw, but since you asked if Prince should ghostwrite for someone, nah man, why getting back to that? Beyoncé, Bruno and all these guys WILL die to have Prince in their album liner notes, it's fucking Prince already..

Same reason he did it the first time around with "Jamie Starr". The enigma, mystique and PR. The music press would go insane trying to figure out who this mystery person is giving #1 hits to all these artists...

@ this point, I don't believe Prince has it in him to make a smash hit anymore. He really only had smash hits for himself anyway. But I do get where you're coming from. It's definitely a cool idea.

Militant said:

This thing with Rita Ora got me thinking. Dig if you will, a picture....

Beyonce/Rihanna/Katy Perry/Bruno Mars/, or anyone of their current status and popularity releases a new single. It's a huge smash. It's catchy, funky, and fun.

.

And you think P would deliver such a thing? Hah, dude hasn't been able to record something decent in ages.

.

Not to mention that he wouldn't get near any of them. Songs for artists like those -- especially singles -- get requested from known hitmakers; P hasn't had a hit in ages.

.

The PR company of this artist runs an undercover viral campaign around the phrase "Who Is Eos Fire?" and gets the blogs buzzing.

.

Nobody gives a damn. Most current hits are written/produced by a small number of writers and producers, and every now and then you bet a Buzzfeed article like "why does all music sound alike? because it's the same small circle of people who write and produce everything" and nobody cares. Nobody gives a fuck who Max Martin is, only industry folks.

.

Two weeks later, Prince (via Epic Records) drops a new song out of nowhere, with a huge marketing campaign, a music video, and announces a full arena tour at the same time in collaboration with Live Nation or AEG.

.

Absurd. Dude simply doesn't have the attention span for that.

.

And in that moment, we all know. It's "Jamie Starr is a thief" redux. And minds are blown.

.

Again: nobody cares. Even back then things like "P did all that" was only a side issue. The main thing was that there were a bunch of great tunes. People made shit up anyway, I bet that to this day there's people here who think P did TLC's "Waterfalls" or secretely did "Oh Sheila" etcetera.

.

P fans really have these odd fantasies where they mistake their personal obsessions for feasible ideas that a kazillion people would go nuts for, based on... well, absolutely nothing.

databank said:

we saw that until Prince revealed the list on the Nude Tour program and Uptown/Nielsen did their research even some fans didn't know the full scope of his ghostwriting

.

IIRC the Nude Tour program list was also rather inaccurate.

.

some of the artists kept lying about it for years (Sheila E. anyone?). For chrissakes even today Princevault STILL claims that Carmen Electra wrote the lyrics she received credit for ()!

.

And some things do remain uncertain. How big was P's input in Mazerati? The stories vary, memories seme to be unreliable.

.

Perhaps Brownmark's upcoming book will contain some relevations, though based on the one sample he put on Facebook I'm hoping someone will be editing it. Or else we're gonna end up with another book like Dez's book, where so many times you wish there'd been someone to confront him with specific stories and facts etc.

I love Prince fan fantasy fiction.

thedoorkeeper said:

I love Prince fan fantasy fiction.

Is there any slash fiction available? Prince and Morris? Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss? Not asking for links, just curious.

Tittypants said:

@ this point, I don't believe Prince has it in him to make a smash hit anymore. He really only had smash hits for himself anyway. But I do get where you're coming from. It's definitely a cool idea.

Wasn't Manic Monday, I Feel For You and Nothing Compares To You smash hits? I believe they were sung by other artists than himself

Replica said:

Wasn't Manic Monday, I Feel For You and Nothing Compares To You smash hits? I believe they were sung by other artists than himself

A lot of people don't know Prince wrote them. Many people also think that How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore is Alicia Keys' song.

[Edited 4/16/14 17:12pm]

fbueller said:

Replica said:

Wasn't Manic Monday, I Feel For You and Nothing Compares To You smash hits? I believe they were sung by other artists than himself

A lot of people don't know Prince wrote them. Many people also think that How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore is Alicia Keys' song.

[Edited 4/16/14 17:12pm]

Very true - I had a conversation with a friend just the other day about Nothing Compares 2 U and they didn't believe me that Prince wrote the song. He said I must have got it wrong and that Prince must have just covered it.

BobGeorge909 said:

ASCAP can be skirted as long as a CONtractual agreement was mad and could be taken to a court if said agreement not met. Contracts can be let secret. ASCAP can't. U can make a contract with someone(person a) saying they get writing credit for 'x' song/songs but person b gets songwriters and producers royalties and person a gets what's left...or whatever arrangement is made. Depends on what limits with other contractual agreements person A has. As well as person b...but I prince doesn't have many contractual limits...just those of others that he runs into...like Lenny... It's possible he has done something like this, ghost writing, minus the shout out bit. U also have to be willing to let ASCAP say u aren't the songwriter when u in fact write the song. Morris's did this, no?....with Party up it seems. Let the world and ASCAP think prince wrote a song for a recording contract...put simply. [Edited 4/16/14 10:59am]

I'm not sure it's legal to hide a copyrighter's identity in the US.

As for letting ASCAP beileving u ain't the writer that's what P did with Shela's Romance 1600 and some Carmen Electra songs. That means losing all the money. I doubt he'd be willing to give his money to Beyonce

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

we saw that until Prince revealed the list on the Nude Tour program and Uptown/Nielsen did their research even some fans didn't know the full scope of his ghostwriting

.

IIRC the Nude Tour program list was also rather inaccurate.

.

some of the artists kept lying about it for years (Sheila E. anyone?). For chrissakes even today Princevault STILL claims that Carmen Electra wrote the lyrics she received credit for ()!

.

And some things do remain uncertain. How big was P's input in Mazerati? The stories vary, memories seme to be unreliable.

.

Perhaps Brownmark's upcoming book will contain some relevations, though based on the one sample he put on Facebook I'm hoping someone will be editing it. Or else we're gonna end up with another book like Dez's book, where so many times you wish there'd been someone to confront him with specific stories and facts etc.

The Nude Tour program was as accurate as legally possible: having given his royalties to Sheila E. for Romance 1600 he couldn't suddenly claim he was the real writer, she would have been entitled to sue (she wouldn't but u see what I mean). Same with the 2 Mazarati songs he ghostwrote the lyrics of: he'd given the royalties to Mark so he couldn't claim them back.

Do Yourself A Favor and Make It Through The Storm were also missing but P hadn't allowed their release in the first place (+ DYAF is a grey area: Jesse stole his arrangements and took co-writing credit but technically it's still a Pépé Willie song).

Apart from that the list was 100% complete.

As for Mazarati I have no idea what u're talking about: everything I've read was cohesive and I've never read anything about about a grey area here. Can u elaborate?

Se7en said:

I hear what you're saying, but the same reasons that Prince's own songs aren't hits would most likely translate into the same problems for anyone recording his new songs.

.

The problems in Prince's music lately is not the vocals, and is rarely the music (except in cases such as Guitar where it sounds like it's ripped off from other artists). The problem is the lyrical content -- it's either silly/jibberish or it's heavily JW-leaning. Or, it's just a song that only Prince can sing because, well, he's Prince.

.

His work "lately" with Bria Valente and Andy Allo did not exactly set the world on fire, and his work with Liv Warfield (even though on Letterman) will probably not make musical waves either.

.

I think one of the main roadblocks to your concept is that Prince's songs (even when they're good) still sound like a Prince song with different vocals. In the RARE case of Manic Monday or Nothing Compares 2 U (e.g.) they were given new life. In cases such as The Time, Vanity 6/Apollonia 6/Martika/Tevin Campbell/etc. they all sound like Prince.

.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to hear Prince's songs by other artists . . . I am saying that your idea that they'll automatically be "hits" or PR extravanganzas probably wouldn't happen.

Bria's album was successful in terms of sales but it's because it was sold alongside the 2 Prince albums. As for Andy and Liv they received virtually zero promotion except for a few TV shows (which is already something but certainly not all u need 2 do if u're gonna push a record into the Top 100). Who the hell even KNEW Andy's album was out save Prince fans, Maceo and Trombone Shorty fans and the people who watched her 2 TV appearances? NO ONE I know has ever heard of this album in the first place!

As for Prince being "able" to write a hit song, people need to understand that if u put 2 million bucks into promoting a song or an album and convince radios and TV to follow-up, u have 99% chances to succeed into making it a hit no matter what it is. When I said above that P would have to lower his standards in order to get a true hit nowadays I didn't mean to appeal the masses: the suckers will buy anything they're being told to buy, I meant to convince a record company to put big bucks in it (unless he does it himself) and convince mainstream radio stations and TV music channels to play it between Pink and Ke$ha's pieces of crap (which usually requires the song to really suck).

databank said:

BobGeorge909 said:

databank said:

I'm not sure it's legal to hide a copyrighter's identity in the US.

As for letting ASCAP beileving u ain't the writer that's what P did with Shela's Romance 1600 and some Carmen Electra songs. That means losing all the money. I doubt he'd be willing to give his money to Beyonce

U don't need to hide it. Just let the other person obtain the copyright. As for the money...it don't matter...just have a contract that says person x pays person y $z amount for this or that work. An ongoing percent of revenue, a one time lump sum...all these things can be stipulated in a contract regardless as to whos presenting the copyrite or what info is given to ASCAP. Fromnwhat I've read its perfectly legal to create something as a work for hire and have your employer own the copyrite. Literary ghostwriters do this stuff all the time. As long as one has a thorough and comprehensive financial agreement in regards to the work...its no problem. A copyrite is a statement of ownership...it doesn't prove or necessarily state who created it. Artists at Disney drew Simbas all day long. When Disney sell 'cells' as collectors items, the person who drew a specific Simba in a specific cell can't claim money on that sale even though they undisputedly drew it. The copyright belongs to Disney. However...Salvador Dali might have been able to make an agreement with Disney to draw cells and retain the copyright on those individual cells. Slim chance, but possible. And people lie to ASCAP all the time as u said. Just have an agreement that covers your ass financially. [Edited 4/17/14 1:49am]

Yeah OK but then we're talking sci-fi, I mean c'mon Prince won't go thru such as hassle (sign a contract saying that X has to reverse all the royaties of "his" song to Y, because if we're talking hits we're talking lifetime income so u don't just "sell" it for a one time amount, unless u're an anonymous ghostwriter in need of money but that's Prince we're talking bout) just for the sake of playing hide and seek with the public, + we're talking having the man who's making a fuss about not owning his masters and people believing Chaka wrote IFFY and Sinead wrote NC2U permanently giving his songs to someone else against a financial compensation? Ain't gonna happen, not in this world. P won't go to such a hassle and there's no other way he can hide nowadays unless he plain and simple gives the rights to the songs, and he wouldn't do that unless it's a very close friend (over hundreds of songs and dozens of artists he did it only 4 times: Romance 1600, 2 tracks on Mazarati, a few tracks on Carmen Electra and Milk & Honey).

fbueller said:

Replica said:

Wasn't Manic Monday, I Feel For You and Nothing Compares To You smash hits? I believe they were sung by other artists than himself

A lot of people don't know Prince wrote them. Many people also think that How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore is Alicia Keys' song.

[Edited 4/16/14 17:12pm]

A lot of people don't know their arse from their elbow...

Do you think Prince could produce an anonymous SOUND?

NouveauDance said:

Do you think Prince could produce an anonymous SOUND?

If he wants to he would be able to create something that isn't distinct Prince. But like Pharrell, he wants to spread his sound and create history. It's smart tactics if you want your sound to be remembered as something HUGE.

he dont need any of that ..just release the new one and go on tv

Militant said:

This thing with Rita Ora got me thinking. Dig if you will, a picture....

Beyonce/Rihanna/Katy Perry/Bruno Mars/, or anyone of their current status and popularity releases a new single. It's a huge smash. It's catchy, funky, and fun. It becomes one of the biggest songs of the year. But nobody knows who this person is who produced it. All the credits say is "Produced and written by Eos Fire" (This is a name I just made up, btw. Kinda dumb, but insert your own. Nothing obvious that includes the word "Starr" or "Coco" or any pseudonym he's used before)

The PR company of this artist runs an undercover viral campaign around the phrase "Who Is Eos Fire?" and gets the blogs buzzing. The song hits #1. It's everywhere. A couple of weeks later, BAM! Another one of those Beyonce/Rihanna/Bruno etc artists comes out with a song. It's another smash. Same situation. Everyone's trying to find out where these productions and songs came from. Nobody seems to know. All sorts of rumors are flying around. People think it might be Andre 3000, or 7 Aurelius. People are asking the artists in every interview, but all they say is "The song was sent to us through our management."

Two weeks later, Prince (via Epic Records) drops a new song out of nowhere, with a huge marketing campaign, a music video, and announces a full arena tour at the same time in collaboration with Live Nation or AEG. It's advertised everywhere. But, he insists that only his new song can be used in the advertisements for the tour on radio, TV and online. It's a full on minimal electronic catchy funk pop guitar extravaganze, halfway between Kiss and Black Sweat, and just as catchy. A feelgood summer song, one of those songs that you just know will be everywhere the first time you hear it.

3/4's through the song, it breaks down to a funky drumbeat and guitar strums, then out of nowhere, Prince yells, "Eos Fire, jacking my style! You better jump off, NPG get wild!"

And in that moment, we all know. It's "Jamie Starr is a thief" redux. And minds are blown.

This daydream was brought to you by Militant....

Actually -anonymously or not- why don't YOU ask him 2 give a song 2 Swami?! U're big enough, u're on a major, u can reach him thru Universal. So OK I know what u're doing is another thing entirely but a song is a song and u could just either completely rearrange and rerecord it or keep only some basic tracks, and a Prince song rearranged with a banghra sound now THAT would b awesome. IDK if P would say OK but man if I had a band signed at Universal I'd give it a hell of a shot!!!

prince is not good enough anymore for that .. fact

TrevorAyer said:

prince is not good enough anymore for that .. fact

Hit = Good?

Review ur premises ^^

Hit = Marketing.

No. I'm into Prince so i can escape all the plastic shit out there. I'm into Prince to deliver real music. He should not embarrassingly do tracks for pop products like all you listed, he should be picking up where The Rainbow Children left off. Musically complex, challenging and unique......instead we are getting absolute trite like Fallinluv and Pretzalnologic.
Then fans go and celebrate his dumb-down and put more ideas like this out there for him or his people to potentially read. We need Prince back as an artist and musician, not an embarrassment which he has increasingly become when it comes to studio work and some business decisions (New Girl).

[Edited 4/17/14 12:34pm]