paulludvig said:

My original point wasn't that Prince planned all the events in advance, but that he saw an opportunity and went with it, thereby de facto releasing a double album with the two discs distributed separately.

.

There's just so much stoopid in this statement I can't even be arsed to debunk it.

.

As to facts and sources - I'm a bit surprised that so many people take everything written in books as gospel.

.

Yes, why don't we wait until P tells us the truth. Sure, there are numerous cases of Prince lying through his teeth about facts, but other than that I don't see a problem there. Meanwhile let's pretend everything that is said by people who aren't P isn't trustworthy, because Susan Rogers obviously has some nefarious plan and part of it is informing us how P actually came to retract TBA.

.

I just love it how you want to debate TBA but get upset when your BS theories are debunked by facts, and then you simply proclaim that all of the known facts are a bunch of BS. I bet you think the earth is flat, is 6000 years old and all planets and stars revolve around it. Oh wait no, that's in the bible, and that's a book, and thus it can't be right. 1 + 1 = 2? Nope, again that's from a book, can't rely on it.

ufoclub said:

lastdecember said:

Fact is that this was all marketing, and planned. We can claim that Prince was high and this and that, but none of it was ever confirmed, a story told to create a bigger story around "good" and "evil", the Light and the Dark. The whole Lovesexy concept is fighting agains that side of "evil" or "darkness" of course a story and myth is going to be created around it. We forget that Prince is still this person who creates mystery for his own benefit he always did, is he black or white, straight or gay, male or female, why would he stop at god and the devil. Back in the 80's when this story was told it was "WOW" radical thats what he did, now its totally see through, and again nothing is or has ever been confirmed, has Prince said i took drugs and tripped and pulled back the record, Prince has never said he took drugs in his life. There were accounts that he was on "depressants" during the death of his child, this was reported by the hospital that claimed to have prescribed it and Mayte's 2 nanny's for the child got these drugs for him, this again was never ever confirmed and was a sold story to the enquirer. Nothing about PRINCE is concrete, i dont care what pepe willie says or Dez Dickerson or Wendy or Lisa, blah blah blah, the guy is an enigma and even if he says it, i dont believe it.

The "high" drug story did not come from Prince or any of his promotional material. It's allegedly Ingrid Chavez who was with him and Anthony Kiedis who supplied the sample pill, and it was his recording engineer that reported some very strange behviour that night, when she was called to the studio in a documented interview (and long after this time period). So this story did not in any way fuel any mystique, it was years after the album had already been officially released much less the initial appearance and popularity of the bootleg.

Plus all it would take is one moment of heartfelt, but drug induced "decision" to then fuel further action based on that seed of belief, moral, or superstition even on a clear mind the next day.

Cat was with him I believe she is friends with Anthony

Dr Fink observed him, Ingrid Chavez met Prince and Cat at a club that he went to test the Black album and he called Susan Rogers to the studio to try to keep her on board

OldFriends4Sale said:

ufoclub said:

The "high" drug story did not come from Prince or any of his promotional material. It's allegedly Ingrid Chavez who was with him and Anthony Kiedis who supplied the sample pill, and it was his recording engineer that reported some very strange behviour that night, when she was called to the studio in a documented interview (and long after this time period). So this story did not in any way fuel any mystique, it was years after the album had already been officially released much less the initial appearance and popularity of the bootleg.

Plus all it would take is one moment of heartfelt, but drug induced "decision" to then fuel further action based on that seed of belief, moral, or superstition even on a clear mind the next day.

Cat was with him I believe she is friends with Anthony

Dr Fink observed him, Ingrid Chavez met Prince and Cat at a club that he went to test the Black album and he called Susan Rogers to the studio to try to keep her on board

.

http://www.fanpop.com/clu...tacy-night

.

Regardless of Prince's self-made mythology, it is alleged amongst some close associates that his decision to cancel the realse was directly influenced by an experiment with the drug ecstacy.

"I was told he got very scared when he was high on a trip and it made him realise that it would be wrong to release the album" Says badeux. "He thought he was going to hell and that stopped him from releasing it". Matt Fink confirms the story - "He had a bad xtc trip and felt that the album was the devil working through him. I heard this directly from Gilbert who was there at PP the night it happened. Prince was with Cat or Ingrid"

Krattinger recieved a perculiar phone call from prince the night of December 1st, "it was 1:30am and he said "karen?" and i said "what?!" and he said "i just called to tell you i love you" i said "you know what Prince? I love you too and I think you should know that because I wouldn't but up with this shit if I didn't". He said that he was sorry he was so hard on me and that he needed my help to do right. He also said that it was hard fro him to express his feelings. That was about the extent of the conversation. He never said anything like that again. The next day was very strange because he seemed embarassed. It's possible that the call was drug-induced, though I had never know him to do anything but drink wine"

(this is where things get interesting, gives me chills)

At about the same time, Prince summoned Rogers to Paisley Park in the early hours although she was no longer working for him. "I went into the rehearsal room, which is sort of in the middle of the building" she remembers. "It was two in the morning and it was empty. It was dark except for a couple of red canldes and I heard a womans voice say "Are you looking for Prince?". I found out later that the woman was Ingrid Chavez. I said "yes, i'm supposed to meet him here at 2am.". she said "well he's here somehwere". As I came out of the room, I suddenly came face-to-face with him an I'm certain he was high. His pupils were really dilated and he looked unlike I'd ever seen him look before. He looked like he was tripping. He was standing very close to me and he asked "I just want to know one thing, do you still love me?" And I said that I did and that I knew he loved me. He said "Will you stay?" And I said "No, I wont. Goodnight" I headed to the door. It was really scary"

.

See, people? Plenty of testimonials from people WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE THAT NIGHT.

.

See also http://prince.org/msg/7/247006 (because hey who knew, this XTC story has been doubted plenty of times before by P fans who are upset their stupid theories about P bootlegging his own music are debunked or by P fans who refuse to ackowledge P is an actual human being who has done drugs and drank alcohol)

.

From that thread:

.

My source: Cat Glover

I filmed a behind the scenes video of her modeling shoot last year (the one many of you have seen on youtube), and spent a couple days hanging out with Cat Glover. She is very open and shared some amazing stories with me. This is one:

1987: Prince had never tried Ecstasy, and was curious about it after Cat told him what it felt like. He asked Cat to get him some (it came from her, where the common misconception is that it came from Ingrid). Cat was in LA when Prince made his request. She got some and flew in to MN and was staying at a hotel when Prince's limo showed up. While they were both in her room, Cat suggested Prince take half a dose "because he was so small". He took the full dose and told Cat to wait for him. He rode off in his limo and Cat didn't hear from him until much later.

Prince decided to go to a club while he was tripping. It was here that he met Ingrid Chavez, which eventually led them to Paisley Park. Cat said she didn't think Ingrid knew Prince was tripping on E. Prince called Cat later from the limo and told her about Ingrid. She was riding with him at that point, and the three of them went out to Paisley, making for a historical night in Prince's career.

Even more interesting is her source for where she got the Ecstasy in the first place: Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

.

Of course by page four of that thread the kooks come out and it's koo-koo time: "Why else was the album made conveniently available for the boot leggers? The album was distributed all over the place."

.

See also http://prince.org/msg/7/335912

.

IIRC this is a quote from DMSR (that thread contains other relevant quotes):

.

But something had changed. Prince believed that he had experienced a spiritual and moral epiphany, and that Chavez, serving as a guide, had shown him the way to greater connection with God and other people. The Black Album, he decided, represented the anger and licentiousness that he must leave behind. After casting about for months for a way to truly put the Revolution era behind him, he had found one.

Days after the ecstasy trip, Prince contacted Warner Bros. chairman Mo Ostin and insisted that the Black Album, with its release just days away, be canceled. "Prince was very adamant and pleaded with Mo," recalled Marylou Badeaux. Although Ostin ultimately agreed, halting the release was a logistical nightmare for Warners. Five hundred thousand LPs - which now needed to be destroyed - had been pressed, and were on loading docks ready for shipment to stores. A small number of vinyl records and cds escaped destruction, and The Black Album quickly became available on the bootleg market, with fans selling and trading cassette duplicates of widely varying fidelity.

Prince has never given a clear public explanation of the decision to shelve the album, but the program from his next tour included a cryptic discussion of the Black Album's "evil" nature, and refers to December 1, 1987 (the night he spent with Chavez at Paisley Park), as "Blue Tuesday."

.

[Edited 4/9/14 6:05am]

2freaky4church1 said:

One thing I do know, Rock Hard In A Funky Place is probably the funniest song he has ever written. It is comic genius as good as classic Carlin or Eddie Murphy.

It is devastatingly great music too. Would have been fun to watch him sculp this song in the studio.

u assume he was in the studio when he constructed this....use your imagination where he possibly could've been and with who...

From Touré's I Would Die 4 U: Why Prince Became an Icon:

.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/1lD4UoW.png[/img:$uid]

Ronin Ro's Prince: Inside the Music and the Masks

.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/3pELNRz.png[/img:$uid]

.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/Jf9NWc0.png[/img:$uid]

.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/L9EAqnh.png[/img:$uid]

Somebody should make a short film where a fanatic goes back in time, slaps the pill outtta Prince's hand sparing him the bad trip (so he'd have released the Black Album instead of Lovesexy ) and then I bet the lyric,

"Yellow Smiley offers me X
Like he's drinking seven up
I would rather drink 6 razor blades
Razor blades from a paper cup",

would disappear. Also, in this alternate timeline, Prince would be popular in a whole different way. More an "Erotic City" legacy than a "Diamonds and Pearls" one (which is what some younger folk think of).

BartVanHemelen said:

paulludvig said:

My original point wasn't that Prince planned all the events in advance, but that he saw an opportunity and went with it, thereby de facto releasing a double album with the two discs distributed separately.

.

There's just so much stoopid in this statement I can't even be arsed to debunk it.

.

As to facts and sources - I'm a bit surprised that so many people take everything written in books as gospel.

.

Yes, why don't we wait until P tells us the truth. Sure, there are numerous cases of Prince lying through his teeth about facts, but other than that I don't see a problem there. Meanwhile let's pretend everything that is said by people who aren't P isn't trustworthy, because Susan Rogers obviously has some nefarious plan and part of it is informing us how P actually came to retract TBA.

.

I just love it how you want to debate TBA but get upset when your BS theories are debunked by facts, and then you simply proclaim that all of the known facts are a bunch of BS. I bet you think the earth is flat, is 6000 years old and all planets and stars revolve around it. Oh wait no, that's in the bible, and that's a book, and thus it can't be right. 1 + 1 = 2? Nope, again that's from a book, can't rely on it.

To Bart and others, I know my Prince history back and forth as I've been a fan since 1979. I was never saying what I said was fact. I was saying "what if" this is what Prince could've had in mind. As for for what's written by Per, is that gospel? What he wrote is also from what people speculated. Prince needs to come forward to say why TBA wasn't released without any riddles and bullshit. I'm not here to start wars, I'm here to discuss all possibilities with fans who love Prince like I do.

Another thing that people forget is that Prince likes to have ALL his entourage, band members, engineers, etc. to sign gag orders. So who is to say that everyone who gave info as to why TBA was pulled is telling the truth?

joyinrepetition said:

Another thing that people forget is that Prince likes to have ALL his entourage, band members, engineers, etc. to sign gag orders. So who is to say that everyone who gave info as to why TBA was pulled is telling the truth?

U're beyond hope

BartVanHemelen said:

paulludvig said:

My original point wasn't that Prince planned all the events in advance, but that he saw an opportunity and went with it, thereby de facto releasing a double album with the two discs distributed separately.

.

There's just so much stoopid in this statement I can't even be arsed to debunk it.

.

As to facts and sources - I'm a bit surprised that so many people take everything written in books as gospel.

.

Yes, why don't we wait until P tells us the truth. Sure, there are numerous cases of Prince lying through his teeth about facts, but other than that I don't see a problem there. Meanwhile let's pretend everything that is said by people who aren't P isn't trustworthy, because Susan Rogers obviously has some nefarious plan and part of it is informing us how P actually came to retract TBA.

.

I just love it how you want to debate TBA but get upset when your BS theories are debunked by facts, and then you simply proclaim that all of the known facts are a bunch of BS. I bet you think the earth is flat, is 6000 years old and all planets and stars revolve around it. Oh wait no, that's in the bible, and that's a book, and thus it can't be right. 1 + 1 = 2? Nope, again that's from a book, can't rely on it.

C'mon, Bart! You can do better than that. I never said any of those things.

Thanks for posting excerpts from various books. To me they only confirm what I have been saying all along. The story is based on rumors, hearsay, second hand information and speculation. They provide some evidence that Prince has experimented with drugs, but the connection to TBA and Lovesexy is flimsy and just not very convincing.

BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

.

Of course by page four of that thread the kooks come out and it's koo-koo time: "Why else was the album made conveniently available for the boot leggers? The album was distributed all over the place."

.

See also http://prince.org/msg/7/335912

.

IIRC this is a quote from DMSR (that thread contains other relevant quotes):

.

But something had changed. Prince believed that he had experienced a spiritual and moral epiphany, and that Chavez, serving as a guide, had shown him the way to greater connection with God and other people. The Black Album, he decided, represented the anger and licentiousness that he must leave behind. After casting about for months for a way to truly put the Revolution era behind him, he had found one.

Days after the ecstasy trip, Prince contacted Warner Bros. chairman Mo Ostin and insisted that the Black Album, with its release just days away, be canceled. "Prince was very adamant and pleaded with Mo," recalled Marylou Badeaux. Although Ostin ultimately agreed, halting the release was a logistical nightmare for Warners. Five hundred thousand LPs - which now needed to be destroyed - had been pressed, and were on loading docks ready for shipment to stores. A small number of vinyl records and cds escaped destruction, and The Black Album quickly became available on the bootleg market, with fans selling and trading cassette duplicates of widely varying fidelity.

Prince has never given a clear public explanation of the decision to shelve the album, but the program from his next tour included a cryptic discussion of the Black Album's "evil" nature, and refers to December 1, 1987 (the night he spent with Chavez at Paisley Park), as "Blue Tuesday."

.

[Edited 4/9/14 6:05am]

databank said:

joyinrepetition said:

Another thing that people forget is that Prince likes to have ALL his entourage, band members, engineers, etc. to sign gag orders. So who is to say that everyone who gave info as to why TBA was pulled is telling the truth?

U're beyond hope

As are you my friend. Don't be a sheep! Free your mind.

paulludvig said:

Thanks for posting excerpts from various books. To me they only confirm what I have been saying all along. The story is based on rumors, hearsay, second hand information and speculation. They provide some evidence that Prince has experimented with drugs, but the connection to TBA and Lovesexy is flimsy and just not very convincing.

BartVanHemelen said:

Thanks Paul for having some sense about the issue!

Let's take a look at the evidence:

[Edited 4/9/14 14:56pm]

joyinrepetition said:

To Bart and others, I know my Prince history back and forth as I've been a fan since 1979. I was never saying what I said was fact. I was saying "what if" this is what Prince could've had in mind. As for for what's written by Per, is that gospel? What he wrote is also from what people speculated. Prince needs to come forward to say why TBA wasn't released without any riddles and bullshit. I'm not here to start wars, I'm here to discuss all possibilities with fans who love Prince like I do.

.

We have already explained it at length, but you appear to be stubborn. Or perhaps you simply don't grasp the concept of facts which CONTRADICT your bullshit.

paulludvig said:

Thanks for posting excerpts from various books. To me they only confirm what I have been saying all along. The story is based on rumors, hearsay, second hand information and speculation. They provide some evidence that Prince has experimented with drugs, but the connection to TBA and Lovesexy is flimsy and just not very convincing.

.

Yes, Susan Roger's FIRST HAND ACCOUNT is hearsay. So is Cat's. So is Ingrid Chavez. So is the testimony of a Warner exec. Oh wait, no, they aren't.

.

And even if they weren't it still doesn't change the fact that YOUR THEORY IS A BUNCH OF BULLCRAP WHICH IS CONTRADICTED BY PRINCE'S ACTIONS.

paulludvig said:

Let's take a look at the evidence:

Dr Fink and Alan Leeds have never claimed to have first hand knowledge of the incident.

Based on this I would guess that Prince has tried ecstasy. How, or even if, this is connected to the cancellation of TBA, the evidence tells us very little about. I still think the "Blue Tuesday"-theory is just that, a theory. I am still surpised how eager some people are to accept information they've read books. Judging from the excerpts from various Prince bios posted by Bart, the authors of these books seem to be basically quoting each other, peddling the same stories. I'm not impressed.

.

Yes, the same people telling the same story over and over again is very suspicious.

.

It is very simply: if it wasn't XTC, then what happened back then? What could have prompted Prince to call a WB exec in the middle of the night and convince her to stop the ONGOING rollout of a new P album and have them destroy hunders of thousands of records (something which most likely Prince paid for and which would have cost a substantial amount of money)?

.

Prince's behavior that night, i.e. being lovey dovey: typical of XTC users. Prince getting scared shitless: typical of him experiencing something he's never experienced before, i.e. drug hallucinations, and perhaps having a bad trip.

.

Don't believe that? Fine. Then offer an alternative theory. I repeat what I've said numerous times before: PROVE ME WRONG.

paulludvig said:

BobGeorge909 said:

paulludvig said:

Let's take a look at the evidence:

Dr Fink and Alan Leeds have never claimed to have first hand knowledge of the incident. Leeds even uses words like "speculation is", indicating that he doesn't fully buy the story.

Witnesses 4 the Prosecution:

The first witness is Karen Krattinger. She spoke to Prince on the phone. She felt he acted out of character. Asked if she thought that this might have been due to drugs she answers "It's possible that the call was drug-induced, though I had never know him to do anything but drink wine" Hardly conclusive evidence. For anything really.

Second witness Susan Rogers is more convincing perhaps. She claims to have met him that night. She too thought he acted strange. "I'm certain he was high. His pupils were really dilated and he looked unlike I'd ever seen him look before." Susan Rogers may be an expert on drugs. I don't know. Cat, who knew one or two things about ecstasy use, didn't think it was that obvious that Prince was high, saying that it was possible that Ingrid Chavez had spent the entire night with Prince without noticing he had taken drugs. Be that as it may be, Rogers was there for only a short time and of course doesn't say that this unusual episode was connected to the cancellation of TBA. She couldn't have known anyway. She was no longer working for Prince and didn't meet him again until much later (if ever?).

Third witness Cat claims to have provided the drugs. That is pretty strong evidence - that Prince has experimented with drugs! Unfortunately her "statement" was given 25 years after that fact and has only been reported second hand. Of course she might have a very good memory. Or maybe not. She claims to have been at PP with Prince and Ingrid. Susan Rogers doesn't mention meeting her there? Who do we trust?

Based on this I would guess that Prince has tried ecstasy. How, or even if, this is connected to the cancellation of TBA, the evidence tells us very little about. I still think the "Blue Tuesday"-theory is just that, a theory. I am still surpised how eager some people are to accept information they've read books. Judging from the excerpts from various Prince bios posted by Bart, the authors of these books seem to be basically quoting each other, peddling the same stories. I'm not impressed.

[Edited 4/9/14 14:56pm]

You wouldn't believe your own mama gave birth to u without a video. Imagine having to watch that....

lmao

sorry Paul, that was funny

luvsexy4all said:

2freaky4church1 said:

One thing I do know, Rock Hard In A Funky Place is probably the funniest song he has ever written. It is comic genius as good as classic Carlin or Eddie Murphy.

It is devastatingly great music too. Would have been fun to watch him sculp this song in the studio.

u assume he was in the studio when he constructed this....use your imagination where he possibly could've been and with who...

he definately had Susannah with him (on co-lead)

paulludvig said:

Thanks for posting excerpts from various books. To me they only confirm what I have been saying all along. The story is based on rumors, hearsay, second hand information and speculation. They provide some evidence that Prince has experimented with drugs, but the connection to TBA and Lovesexy is flimsy and just not very convincing.

BartVanHemelen said:

maybe the hidden messages in the Alphabet St video and his opening line in Eye No is the closest to his confession?

I can't understand why these accounts of what went down with TBA strike some as fabricated rumors or some marketing ploy. We have several different accounts by different people pretty much saying the same thing with their take on it. XTC, LSD, or whatever, the dude had a serious change of heart about releasing the album and had it stopped at the last minute. That is FACT! Not hearsay or rumored speculation. Why is that so hard to believe? What kind of proof do people want or expect? Being in his presence that night yourselves? I don't understand why the big debate

.

Hell and I'm one who questions everything and have been accused of being a tin foiled hat conspiracy theorist at times.

People fighting against the known facts and evidence are just beyond belief. The idea it was some long game, marketing plan is just nuts. 400-500,000 records are going to be created and destroyed, at Prince's cost, just for marketing? LMAO.

I think we need a new forum for Prince fantasy fan fiction.

joyinrepetition said:

databank said:

U're beyond hope

As are you my friend. Don't be a sheep! Free your mind.

Huh??? If u had any idea of what kind of a person I am and what my life has been like so far u'd probably feel ashamed to have told me not to be a sheep.

I don't c how I can b beyond hope when all I do is take known facts and conclude that unless/until proven untrue or doubtful (or at least unless/until we have solid elements that contradicts what was known so far), the historical data research has revealed has to be considered true.

What you people do is shameful: u take personnal theories based, I say it again, on NOTHING but your own delusions and u will try everything to demonstrate that ur theories make sense, stretching reality as far as it can be stretched, going as far as to use totally absurd arguments such as the one above about people having signed confidentiality agreements which makes no sense at all to try and make a point. This is damn INSANE!

U wanna play who's sheep, let's play. U know I believe in one philosophic rule that says that logic should be the mother of all thinking.

What I read above is:

1/ Prince collaborators sign confidentiality agreements (true but as a matter of fact it wasn't yet the case in 1987 but let's say u didn't know that).

2/ Confidentiality agreements are more than just about NOT disclosing confidential informations, they also involve people having to make-up stories or confirm the lies of the ex-employer (u find me a lawyer that confirms that: I give u 100 bucks!).

3/ The official story is that P took xtc with Ingrid and therefore cancelled TBA (yeah OK, so u find me an interview where Prince tells that story before Per Nielsen's research revealed it and I give u another 100 bucks, because as far as I know he never ever spoke about all this and if it wasn't for Nielsen all we'd know is that he changed his mind about the record because he felt it was morally wrong, which isn't exactly the same as to say that whole story about drugs and depression).

4/ Someone who signed a confidentiality agreement is contractually obliged to tell that his ex-employer was depressed and took drugs, all things that took him to take an irrational decision that cost him and his record company hundreds of thousands of dollars in loss (that makes perfect sense: confidentiality agreements are all about having to criticize your ex employer, talk about his drugs habits, personal experiences and disastrous business decisions, that's a well know fact )

5/ And on top of it all u say that only Prince could tell the truth, so if I get u, people who told that story were acting as Prince's puppets, feeding us an "official" version that actually is only official in your disturbed minds, but if Prince was telling us his own official version of the story then he could be trusted... huh... come again?

So yeah sure, go on all u want speaking nonsense and call whoever doesn't buy your nonsense a sheep, but u guys don't fool anyone. What u r is irrational. U know, creationists, holocaust negationists and conspirationists do what u do all the time, trying to manipulate people into believing that their nonsense is based on "facts" by just distorting what is known and trying to abuse naive people.

The problem with this "we don't know nothing for sure so every theory is worth any other" is that it means that basically we have no ground AT ALL to distinguish facts from fiction, and that's the argument religious fanatics, neo-nazis and paranoid conspirationists use all the time to try and sell their insane ideas to the masses. So OK this is just about Prince and TBA and it's not like it's really important, but when u use the same methods as people who say God created the Earth in a week and that men lived among dinosaurs for some time or people who say Nazis never killed a single Jew or created extermination camps, u're basically contributing to help them spread their ideas because after all, if your "logic" works for TBA, it works with everything else doesn't it?

This is something I can't accept and if this is being a sheep then well, I'd rather be a sheep than someone who works against reason and logic.

BobGeorge909 said:

paulludvig said:

Let's take a look at the evidence:

Dr Fink and Alan Leeds have never claimed to have first hand knowledge of the incident. Leeds even uses words like "speculation is", indicating that he doesn't fully buy the story.

Witnesses 4 the Prosecution:

The first witness is Karen Krattinger. She spoke to Prince on the phone. She felt he acted out of character. Asked if she thought that this might have been due to drugs she answers "It's possible that the call was drug-induced, though I had never know him to do anything but drink wine" Hardly conclusive evidence. For anything really.

Second witness Susan Rogers is more convincing perhaps. She claims to have met him that night. She too thought he acted strange. "I'm certain he was high. His pupils were really dilated and he looked unlike I'd ever seen him look before." Susan Rogers may be an expert on drugs. I don't know. Cat, who knew one or two things about ecstasy use, didn't think it was that obvious that Prince was high, saying that it was possible that Ingrid Chavez had spent the entire night with Prince without noticing he had taken drugs. Be that as it may be, Rogers was there for only a short time and of course doesn't say that this unusual episode was connected to the cancellation of TBA. She couldn't have known anyway. She was no longer working for Prince and didn't meet him again until much later (if ever?).

Third witness Cat claims to have provided the drugs. That is pretty strong evidence - that Prince has experimented with drugs! Unfortunately her "statement" was given 25 years after that fact and has only been reported second hand. Of course she might have a very good memory. Or maybe not. She claims to have been at PP with Prince and Ingrid. Susan Rogers doesn't mention meeting her there? Who do we trust?

Based on this I would guess that Prince has tried ecstasy. How, or even if, this is connected to the cancellation of TBA, the evidence tells us very little about. I still think the "Blue Tuesday"-theory is just that, a theory. I am still surpised how eager some people are to accept information they've read books. Judging from the excerpts from various Prince bios posted by Bart, the authors of these books seem to be basically quoting each other, peddling the same stories. I'm not impressed.

[Edited 4/9/14 14:56pm]

You wouldn't believe your own mama gave birth to u without a video. Imagine having to watch that....

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

BobGeorge909 said:

paulludvig said: You wouldn't believe your own mama gave birth to u without a video. Imagine having to watch that....

lmao

sorry Paul, that was funny

databank said:

joyinrepetition said:

As are you my friend. Don't be a sheep! Free your mind.

Huh??? If u had any idea of what kind of a person I am and what my life has been like so far u'd probably feel ashamed to have told me not to be a sheep.

I don't c how I can b beyond hope when all I do is take known facts and conclude that unless/until proven untrue or doubtful (or at least unless/until we have solid elements that contradicts what was known so far), the historical data research has revealed has to be considered true.

What you people do is shameful: u take personnal theories based, I say it again, on NOTHING but your own delusions and u will try everything to demonstrate that ur theories make sense, stretching reality as far as it can be stretched, going as far as to use totally absurd arguments such as the one above about people having signed confidentiality agreements which makes no sense at all to try and make a point. This is damn INSANE!

U wanna play who's sheep, let's play. U know I believe in one philosophic rule that says that logic should be the mother of all thinking.

What I read above is:

1/ Prince collaborators sign confidentiality agreements (true but as a matter of fact it wasn't yet the case in 1987 but let's say u didn't know that).

2/ Confidentiality agreements are more than just about NOT disclosing confidential informations, they also involve people having to make-up stories or confirm the lies of the ex-employer (u find me a lawyer that confirms that: I give u 100 bucks!).

3/ The official story is that P took xtc with Ingrid and therefore cancelled TBA (yeah OK, so u find me an interview where Prince tells that story before Per Nielsen's research revealed it and I give u another 100 bucks, because as far as I know he never ever spoke about all this and if it wasn't for Nielsen all we'd know is that he changed his mind about the record because he felt it was morally wrong, which isn't exactly the same as to say that whole story about drugs and depression).

4/ Someone who signed a confidentiality agreement is contractually obliged to tell that his ex-employer was depressed and took drugs, all things that took him to take an irrational decision that cost him and his record company hundreds of thousands of dollars in loss (that makes perfect sense: confidentiality agreements are all about having to criticize your ex employer, talk about his drugs habits, personal experiences and disastrous business decisions, that's a well know fact )

5/ And on top of it all u say that only Prince could tell the truth, so if I get u, people who told that story were acting as Prince's puppets, feeding us an "official" version that actually is only official in your disturbed minds, but if Prince was telling us his own official version of the story then he could be trusted... huh... come again?

So yeah sure, go on all u want speaking nonsense and call whoever doesn't buy your nonsense a sheep, but u guys don't fool anyone. What u r is irrational. U know, creationists, holocaust negationists and conspirationists do what u do all the time, trying to manipulate people into believing that their nonsense is based on "facts" by just distorting what is known and trying to abuse naive people.

The problem with this "we don't know nothing for sure so every theory is worth any other" is that it means that basically we have no ground AT ALL to distinguish facts from fiction, and that's the argument religious fanatics, neo-nazis and paranoid conspirationists use all the time to try and sell their insane ideas to the masses. So OK this is just about Prince and TBA and it's not like it's really important, but when u use the same methods as people who say God created the Earth in a week and that men lived among dinosaurs for some time or people who say Nazis never killed a single Jew or created extermination camps, u're basically contributing to help them spread their ideas because after all, if your "logic" works for TBA, it works with everything else doesn't it?

This is something I can't accept and if this is being a sheep then well, I'd rather be a sheep than someone who works against reason and logic.

You can't compare questioning the official account of the genesis of a Prince album to holocaust denial. Are you nuts?!? Sorry, but that was really low.