I looked and couldn´t find this article posted here on the org so I thought I might as well create a thread about it. Nothing groundbreaking and no new info for the hardcore fans among us but you know, it´s Jon Bream and his articles are always a good read. Contains some interesting quotes from David Z.

Enjoy!

http://www.startribune.co...34001.html

[Edited 4/28/14 23:27pm]

KoolEaze said:

I looked and couldn´t find this article posted here on the org so I thought I might as well create a thread about it. Nothing groundbreaking and no new info for the hardcore fans among us but you know, it´s Jon Bream and his articles are always a good read. Contains some interesting quotes from David Z.

Enjoy!

http://www.startribune.co...34001.html

[Edited 4/28/14 23:27pm]

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Mindbogglingly weak article. WB has at least six albums of material that only appeared on vinyl (12"s etc.), for instance.

We know that there are more unreleased stuff & demos from PR era period that the ones mentionned on this article!!

BartVanHemelen said:

KoolEaze said:

I looked and couldn´t find this article posted here on the org so I thought I might as well create a thread about it. Nothing groundbreaking and no new info for the hardcore fans among us but you know, it´s Jon Bream and his articles are always a good read. Contains some interesting quotes from David Z.

Enjoy!

http://www.startribune.co...34001.html

[Edited 4/28/14 23:27pm]

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Mindbogglingly weak article. WB has at least six albums of material that only appeared on vinyl (12"s etc.), for instance.

Maybe mindbogglingly weak considering that it´s written by Jon Bream and we are used to better articles from him but it´s interesting to read that they often recorded two songs a day.

When you say six albums of material, 12" etc, you are talking about those maxi singles and stuff, right?

KoolEaze said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Mindbogglingly weak article. WB has at least six albums of material that only appeared on vinyl (12"s etc.), for instance.

Maybe mindbogglingly weak considering that it´s written by Jon Bream and we are used to better articles from him

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Not just that, but it isn't that hard to dig up info on the recording process of PR. Surely Bream knows about Per Nilsen's DMSR (considering he bitched about the book referencing his bio extensively) which contains plenty of information. Then there's PrinceVault.

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but it´s interesting to read that they often recorded two songs a day.

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To take such a line as a statement of fact is simply ridiculous. Have there been days where they recorded two songs? Sure. Were all days like that? Hell no.

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Then there's this:

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But Prince never submitted finished material to Warners unless he was ready to release it. The exception was 1987’s “The Black Album,” which he pulled the plug on. The label eventually issued it in 1994.

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IIRC there have been several occasions where P submitted albums to WB which didn't get released, and there's at least one case where it is said a catalogue number was assigned (can't remember which one, though).

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Also:

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But there were no demos for “Purple Rain,” David Z said. Prince didn’t operate that way with his band.

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I still find it hard to believe there isn't a studio version of PR recorded before the concert (ditto for other tracks that were recorded live). It just seems odd to me that they learned this song and others during rehearsal and then performed it at that gig with Prince recording the gig with the intention of using those recordings as the basic album tracks, without ever recording a studio version first.

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And while P's idea of a demo is usually a fully recorded song, there's at least one case where a demo exists: "Kiss".

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creating unreleased albums known as “Camille” (rumored to be done in a high, manipulated, female-like voice)

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Seriously? I mean, most of those songs were actually released and attributed to Camille. Bream doesn't know this?

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When you say six albums of material, 12" etc, you are talking about those maxi singles and stuff, right?

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Of course.

BartVanHemelen said:

KoolEaze said:

But Prince never submitted finished material to Warners unless he was ready to release it. The exception was 1987’s “The Black Album,” which he pulled the plug on. The label eventually issued it in 1994.

IIRC there have been several occasions where P submitted albums to WB which didn't get released, and there's at least one case where it is said a catalogue number was assigned (can't remember which one, though).

AFAIK "Dream Factory", "Camille", "Crystal Ball", the original album, the original "Come", the original "The Gold Experience" and some live projects (albums and videos) all had (temp) catalogue numbers...

Neversin.

I believe PR had no demo .. the PR version of PR was taken from the benefit concert which had more verses .. point being that it was still getting worked out .. seems probable that the song came together as its final statement during the edit of that live take .. and it came out so good they never bothered to get around to doing a studio version .. i imagine the studio version would be stale in comparisson if it existed .. I also recall prince saying he does not 'demo' anything and once it is recorded that is generally the final product save a few edits or remixing or mastering .. this approach is likely why his music suffers so much the last several decades .. when prince was on fire the demo had the magic .. without his collaborators around .. his demos would benefit from more work and rearranging and time spent fixing lyrics .. this is why the new songs always sound flat and unfinished .. nobody of quality around to add the magic

If they were to put the August '83 concert in the bonus materials for the new edition of Purple Rain, I would shit twice and die.

TrevorAyer said:

I believe PR had no demo .. the PR version of PR was taken from the benefit concert which had more verses .. point being that it was still getting worked out ..

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Why? There exist longer versions of plenty of songs, it is entirely possible a longer studio version of PR exists.

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seems probable that the song came together as its final statement during the edit of that live take .. and it came out so good they never bothered to get around to doing a studio version ..

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I find it hard to believe there wasn't an existing song before the concert, that it only existed in the musicians' minds. Especially when there are more tracks that we only know to exist as recordings from that gig.

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i imagine the studio version would be stale in comparisson if it existed ..

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Possibly.

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I also recall prince saying he does not 'demo' anything and once it is recorded that is generally the final product save a few edits or remixing or mastering ..

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Except the Kiss demo exists and is on boots. I also recall other stories about P coming into the studio with a piano demo of a song and then using that as a guide to record the actual song. (Wasn't that in that "Prince In The Studio" book?)

there is also the PR rehearsal with different lyrics "cant shake this feeling i got" or something like that .. i believe it was in 83 .. so not too far from the final PR indicating that the song was still in jam form .. prince is somewhat known to take rehearsal tapes or live tapes and turn them into the final product .. such as all night all day .. and of couse 3 tunes from PR, america, mountains .. all of these little tidbits of info suggest that PR on PR is indeed the demo and final version all in one .. there may be an instrumental piano demo .. but likely it does not contain PR lyrics as the "feelin i got" .. stevie nicks mentioned prince had a demo of PR for here with the old lyrics, not PR lyrics

as for kiss .. that one prince approached as a throw away .. mazerati demoed it and prince took it back .. so it makes sense there would be several demos considering its journey to the center of your bart (he he) .. pr seems as tho it took a different journy .. perhaps rehearsal tapes and previous versions with different lyrics could be considered a demo .. but when it comes down to it .. i still stick with my conclusion that no full final studio work up of the song we now know as PR exists .. unless prince rerecorded it it later .. and probably sucked the life out of it in doing so

we might also speculate that the recording truck was ordered up for that fateful benefit concert because prince had these new songs and new versions that he desperately wanted in some quality form on tape while the band was hitting the vibe just right .. no time to waste getting it on tape .. get the truck to the show .. we need these songs demoed before they slip into overthought mode .. and thus .. the definitive form is born .. again the extra lyrics at the benefit suggest its final form came from editing the most recent live pass / jam .. was so good why try for more in a non live studio format? .. and of courst PR the film needed the live feel .. cementing the definitive PR

TrevorAyer said:

BlackCandle said:

TrevorAyer said:

I believe PR had no demo .. the PR version of PR was taken from the benefit concert which had more verses .. point being that it was still getting worked out .. seems probable that the song came together as its final statement during the edit of that live take .. and it came out so good they never bothered to get around to doing a studio version .. i imagine the studio version would be stale in comparisson if it existed .. I also recall prince saying he does not 'demo' anything and once it is recorded that is generally the final product save a few edits or remixing or mastering .. this approach is likely why his music suffers so much the last several decades .. when prince was on fire the demo had the magic .. without his collaborators around .. his demos would benefit from more work and rearranging and time spent fixing lyrics .. this is why the new songs always sound flat and unfinished .. nobody of quality around to add the magic

So, what version of Purple Rain was Stevie Nicks listening to when Prince offered the song to her..? http://prince.org/msg/7/402742 WB should go knock on her door... [Edited 4/29/14 12:17pm]

Court adjourned!

BartVanHemelen said:

Except the Kiss demo exists and is on boots. I also recall other stories about P coming into the studio with a piano demo of a song and then using that as a guide to record the actual song. (Wasn't that in that "Prince In The Studio" book?)

Yeah, there has been plenty of demos. From Kiss and Thieves in the Temple, through to I'll do anything sessions and Guitar. There have have been plenty of tales.

I agree, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a Studio Purple Rain. I think Prince probably ended up going for the live take to suit the film scene. A good example is "The Bird", where a good studio version exists but wasn't used.

SquirrelMeat said:

I agree, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a Studio Purple Rain. I think Prince probably ended up going for the live take to suit the film scene. A good example is "The Bird", where a good studio version exists but wasn't used.

Of course, forgot about that one.

"Prince’s jam sessions with legendary jazz trumpeter Miles Davis yielded only one released song (on a Chaka Khan album), but are there more?"

Which song are they talking about here???

ThomasBjj said:

"Prince’s jam sessions with legendary jazz trumpeter Miles Davis yielded only one released song (on a Chaka Khan album), but are there more?"

Which song are they talking about here???

Sticky Wicked

Genesia said:

If they were to put the August '83 concert in the bonus materials for the new edition of Purple Rain, I would shit twice and die.

TrevorAyer said:

i still stick with my conclusion that no full final studio work up of the song we now know as PR exists ..

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I agree. It wouldn't be the first or last song created outside of studios then edited into the final product.

SquirrelMeat said:

A good example is "The Bird", where a good studio version exists but wasn't used.

Well we also know Prince tracked a lot of that material he produced for other artists, and demo versions exist of those songs.

BlackCandle said:

BartVanHemelen said:

KoolEaze said:

I looked and couldn´t find this article posted here on the org so I thought I might as well create a thread about it. Nothing groundbreaking and no new info for the hardcore fans among us but you know, it´s Jon Bream and his articles are always a good read. Contains some interesting quotes from David Z.

Enjoy!

http://www.startribune.co...34001.html

[Edited 4/28/14 23:27pm]

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Mindbogglingly weak article. WB has at least six albums of material that only appeared on vinyl (12"s etc.), for instance.

No, it's a "what about" article, he set out to write an accessible article for the average reader, not hardcore collectors. Maybe he forgot some details, but who doesn't with such a sprawling body of work, right?

Aerogram said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Mindbogglingly weak article. WB has at least six albums of material that only appeared on vinyl (12"s etc.), for instance.

No, it's a "what about" article, he set out to write an accessible article for the average reader, not hardcore collectors. Maybe he forgot some details, but who doesn't with such a sprawling body of work, right?

"Maybe he forgot some details" then either write an article about something you remember or spend a couple hours refreshing your memory with a little internet research. Not just this subject (Prince) but I read too many articles written by people who don't know WTF they are talking about, or that do know, but are sloppy and inaccurate with the details. It's just piss poor work IMO.

ThomasBjj said:

Aerogram said:

No, it's a "what about" article, he set out to write an accessible article for the average reader, not hardcore collectors. Maybe he forgot some details, but who doesn't with such a sprawling body of work, right?

"Maybe he forgot some details" then either write an article about something you remember or spend a couple hours refreshing your memory with a little internet research. Not just this subject (Prince) but I read too many articles written by people who don't know WTF they are talking about, or that do know, but are sloppy and inaccurate with the details. It's just piss poor work IMO.

Look, even BVH forgot about the studio version of The Bird. Gotta cut some slack to journalists who are not so into the deep details of Prince's catalog.

tatocorcu said:

BlackCandle said:

So, what version of Purple Rain was Stevie Nicks listening to when Prince offered the song to her..? http://prince.org/msg/7/402742 WB should go knock on her door... [Edited 4/29/14 12:17pm]

I have no idea whether there is a studio version of PR but I've always found difficult to believe Stevie's story...

Why is that?

SquirrelMeat said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Except the Kiss demo exists and is on boots. I also recall other stories about P coming into the studio with a piano demo of a song and then using that as a guide to record the actual song. (Wasn't that in that "Prince In The Studio" book?)

Yeah, there has been plenty of demos. From Kiss and Thieves in the Temple, through to I'll do anything sessions and Guitar. There have have been plenty of tales.

I agree, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a Studio Purple Rain. I think Prince probably ended up going for the live take to suit the film scene. A good example is "The Bird", where a good studio version exists but wasn't used.

The version of "The Bird" in the movie is still even a more "live" and energetic 3rd mix/performance than the album version on "Ice Cream Castles", if I remember correctly.

treehouse said:

TrevorAyer said:

i still stick with my conclusion that no full final studio work up of the song we now know as PR exists ..

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I agree. It wouldn't be the first or last song created outside of studios then edited into the final product.

Yeah, he just makes it all up as he goes along. Jeez.

Interesting story from a Prince girlfriend once who said that he practiced all day on a piano riff so that it could sound spontaneous for a group of Execs the following day. Don't believe the hype.

ThomasBjj said:

"Prince’s jam sessions with legendary jazz trumpeter Miles Davis yielded only one released song (on a Chaka Khan album), but are there more?"

Which song are they talking about here???

Miles Davis is supposedly on the bootleg track, 'Can I Play With U?', which is probably out there on the internet, somewhere.

Go find it!

For someone who wrote a book about the guy he sure sounds like a n00b.

ufoclub said:

Aerogram said:

ThomasBjj said:

"Maybe he forgot some details" then either write an article about something you remember or spend a couple hours refreshing your memory with a little internet research. Not just this subject (Prince) but I read too many articles written by people who don't know WTF they are talking about, or that do know, but are sloppy and inaccurate with the details. It's just piss poor work IMO.

Look, even BVH forgot about the studio version of The Bird. Gotta cut some slack to journalists who are not so into the deep details of Prince's catalog.

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There's a difference between forgetting a concrete example of a live track replacing a studio version and not knowing about the Camille album. Sheesh, Bream WROTE A BOOK about P that is still the best source for most of the pre-fame information.

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It took Bream a week to come up with this weak shit, whilst there are numerous threads here containing far more in-depth info. Hell, a visit to PrinceVault would have provided him with plenty of info.

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Also gotta love your defending him on the base that this article was for non-fans. Since when is that an excuse for sloppy reporting? Oh, and if it was for non-fans, why mention a Jill Jones track that isn't even in the movie whilst pretending not to know anything about the Camille album?