I just saw this article about Smokey Robinson, and this stood out:

The veteran singer is reclaiming the rights to tracks penned before 1978 from bosses at Jobete Music Co. under the copyright termination law, which allows musicians to recover control of their tunes after 35 years.

We're coming up to 36 years since "For You" came out...... I wonder if Prince will get these back and perhaps finally do some remasters?

Militant said:

I just saw this article about Smokey Robinson, and this stood out:

The veteran singer is reclaiming the rights to tracks penned before 1978 from bosses at Jobete Music Co. under the copyright termination law, which allows musicians to recover control of their tunes after 35 years.

We're coming up to 36 years since "For You" came out...... I wonder if Prince will get these back and perhaps finally do some remasters?

I don't know but it would be great if he did.

Prince claimed to have gotten the first 3 albums back in 2010 or so. But I have not heard of any major acts getting albums back under this law.

Prince's foolish mistake was made with the slave thing. He could have gotten his masters back if he asked for them in a new contract.


Oh and speaking of the Slave thing! Back in an interview in 1980 or so he was talking about why Dirty Mind was so different and I swear he said that for the first two there were "overseers." Odd choice of words. Even back then he was aware that how the industry worked and how it was about control.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Prince claimed to have gotten the first 3 albums back in 2010 or so. But I have not heard of any major acts getting albums back under this law.

Prince's foolish mistake was made with the slave thing. He could have gotten his masters back if he asked for them in a new contract.


Oh and speaking of the Slave thing! Back in an interview in 1980 or so he was talking about why Dirty Mind was so different and I swear he said that for the first two there were "overseers." Odd choice of words. Even back then he was aware that how the industry worked and how it was about control.

Masters are the industry's most precious commodity. There's NO WAY WB would have given him his masters no matter what P would have done, NO WAY. This for one thing would have created a precedent that would have given legal basis for every other MF singed at WB to reclaim their masters, at a time when the change of management made quite a lot of WB artists decide to opt out of renewing their contracts with the label. NO WAY.

And I'm quite sure that P's 2010 statement is absolute BS.

Militant said:

I just saw this article about Smokey Robinson, and this stood out:

The veteran singer is reclaiming the rights to tracks penned before 1978 from bosses at Jobete Music Co. under the copyright termination law, which allows musicians to recover control of their tunes after 35 years.

We're coming up to 36 years since "For You" came out...... I wonder if Prince will get these back and perhaps finally do some remasters?

Not everyone is gonna reclaim their masters I think. Doing it can be because:

- You think u can have another major interested in licencing them and get a better percentage from sales than from your current back catalogue as it is.

- Too much of your back catalogue is OOP and that pisses u of.

- You're a control freak.

- You're pissed at your ex label(s).

For example I could perfectly see Madonna getting he whole catalogue back when the time comes, licencing it to Live Nation and make lotsa money from reissuing it, but it's perfectly possible that many major artists are just happy with the deal they have and don't wanna go thru the hassle.

Chaka said publicly that she's mad @ WB for not reissuing her back catalogue properly, and that she intended to get it back.

As for Prince I suspect he's waiting until 2019 to reclaim everything up to Purple Rain at once (including the Time, V6, A6 and Glamorous Life albums), because the hyper around him rereleasing his first 6 albums remastered at once, with PR and 1999 and the side-projects, would be much bigger than a For You remaster no one gives a fuck about save hardcore fans. In the end rereleasing the 12 albums at once would probably generate more profit from the huge hype it'd generate than doing it year after year, album per album, + it would be the 40th anniversary of PR. Of course it's nothing but speculation.

Militant said:

I just saw this article about Smokey Robinson, and this stood out:

The veteran singer is reclaiming the rights to tracks penned before 1978 from bosses at Jobete Music Co. under the copyright termination law, which allows musicians to recover control of their tunes after 35 years.

We're coming up to 36 years since "For You" came out...... I wonder if Prince will get these back and perhaps finally do some remasters?

Not everyone is gonna reclaim their masters I think. Doing it can be because:

- You think u can have another major interested in licencing them and get a better percentage from sales than from your current back catalogue as it is.

- Too much of your back catalogue is OOP and that pisses u of.

- You're a control freak.

- You're pissed at your ex label(s).

For example I could perfectly see Madonna getting he whole catalogue back when the time comes, licencing it to Live Nation and make lotsa money from reissuing it, but it's perfectly possible that many major artists are just happy with the deal they have and don't wanna go thru the hassle.

Chaka said publicly that she's mad @ WB for not reissuing her back catalogue properly, and that she intended to get it back.

As for Prince I suspect he's waiting until 2019 to reclaim everything up to Purple Rain at once (including the Time, V6, A6 and Glamorous Life albums), because the hyper around him rereleasing his first 6 albums remastered at once, with PR and 1999 and the side-projects, would be much bigger than a For You remaster no one gives a fuck about save hardcore fans. In the end rereleasing the 12 albums at once would probably generate more profit from the huge hype it'd generate than doing it year after year, album per album, + it would be the 40th anniversary of PR. Of course it's nothing but speculation.

I just don't see WB giving up these masters to Prince without a knock down, bare knuckled grudge match.

blacknote said:

bigd74 said:

blacknote said:

I just don't see WB giving up these masters to Prince without a knock down, bare knuckled grudge match.

How could it be a fight if contractually they are his to take?

It's not a contract it's a law and it doesn't make it automatic: artists have to reclaim the masters and it has to be decided by a judge on a case by case basis (at least if I understood correctly). My guess is that after some time and if judges always rule in favor of the artists, the labels will give the masters back without a fight but if they have any chance to keep them they won't go without a fight at least in the beginning. + many cases are going to be complicated, since the law doesn't really says WHO gets the masters back. Who has a claim on them? The interpret? The composers? The arrangers and producers? The musicians who played on them? In the case of solo Prince albums it's quite easy (it's unlikely anyone will challenge his ownershipt even if they co-wrote some stuff) but in many cases it's gonna be a mess. The side-projects for example may represent a problem and in general many songs (not only in Prince's world) are collaborative efforts. What we need is a jurisprudence but there's none yet. Could Prince claim the rights to Sugar Walls since after all it's more his song than Sheena's? Could Wendy & Lisa claim rights on songs they co-wrote and/or co-arranged on the Prince And The Revolution albums? Could all the people involved in Madonna's songs claim a right to her masters? Could Jam & Lewis reclaim a share of the rights to the albums they've produced for and co-somposed with Janet? In most cases I'm sure the parties involved will be reasonable, but there may be some harsh legal battles ahead of us, and once again not only around Prince's stuff but in the whole music industry...

For example u can b assured that Prince will want all the songs he was involved with that were per4med by The Time. But actually even though P arranged and performed it, After Hi' School was written and composed by Dez, so why not Dez? And Morris sang on it so why not Morris? And it was credited to The Time so why not the whole band?

And what about Jungle Love, The Bird and Ice Cream Castles? They were after all collaborative efforts between Prince, Morris and Jesse so why should Prince alone have the masters? The whole band even play on the released version on The Bird...

Could David Z reclaim a share of the masters for Kiss, considering how much of his work ended-up on the final product?

And so on, and so on...

Don't get me wrong: I doubt anyone will want to go in a costly legal battle with Prince, who can afford the best attorneys in the industry. fDeluxe and TO7 sure didn't when it came to keeping the old bands' names. But that's just to say that it ain't so simple...

+ WB, even if they can't keep the masters, may try to make a point of the fact that this will represent a loss, and may ask for a compensation in the hope of creating a jurisprudence...

[Edited 3/24/14 8:31am]

databank said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Prince claimed to have gotten the first 3 albums back in 2010 or so. But I have not heard of any major acts getting albums back under this law.

Prince's foolish mistake was made with the slave thing. He could have gotten his masters back if he asked for them in a new contract.


Oh and speaking of the Slave thing! Back in an interview in 1980 or so he was talking about why Dirty Mind was so different and I swear he said that for the first two there were "overseers." Odd choice of words. Even back then he was aware that how the industry worked and how it was about control.

Masters are the industry's most precious commodity. There's NO WAY WB would have given him his masters no matter what P would have done, NO WAY. This for one thing would have created a precedent that would have given legal basis for every other MF singed at WB to reclaim their masters, at a time when the change of management made quite a lot of WB artists decide to opt out of renewing their contracts with the label. NO WAY.

And I'm quite sure that P's 2010 statement is absolute BS.

Several major acts were able to negotiate past masters back as a term of a new contract. It would not set a precedent at all--well not any that WB would even have to entertain for any other act. I do, however, agree that I doubt the 2010 statement.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

databank said:

Masters are the industry's most precious commodity. There's NO WAY WB would have given him his masters no matter what P would have done, NO WAY. This for one thing would have created a precedent that would have given legal basis for every other MF singed at WB to reclaim their masters, at a time when the change of management made quite a lot of WB artists decide to opt out of renewing their contracts with the label. NO WAY.

And I'm quite sure that P's 2010 statement is absolute BS.

Several major acts were able to negotiate past masters back as a term of a new contract. It would not set a precedent at all--well not any that WB would even have to entertain for any other act. I do, however, agree that I doubt the 2010 statement.

Didn't Bowie and Zappa get their whole catalogues back at some point? I'm not sure for either of them and if it's true IDK either if it implied a new deal with the same record company or of they took the masters away, but I think I've read that somewhere. Any other example?

databank said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Several major acts were able to negotiate past masters back as a term of a new contract. It would not set a precedent at all--well not any that WB would even have to entertain for any other act. I do, however, agree that I doubt the 2010 statement.

Didn't Bowie and Zappa get their whole catalogues back at some point? I'm not sure for either of them and if it's true IDK either if it implied a new deal with the same record company or of they took the masters away, but I think I've read that somewhere. Any other example?

not many. But in 1992 I think Prince could have. One thing that always got me was how Prince played the victim. He was not a a teenager in 1992 when he was getting that $100Million deal (which even back then I did not think would ever really happen). He was a well established act with nearly 15 years in the business.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

databank said:

Didn't Bowie and Zappa get their whole catalogues back at some point? I'm not sure for either of them and if it's true IDK either if it implied a new deal with the same record company or of they took the masters away, but I think I've read that somewhere. Any other example?

not many. But in 1992 I think Prince could have. One thing that always got me was how Prince played the victim. He was not a a teenager in 1992 when he was getting that $100Million deal (which even back then I did not think would ever really happen). He was a well established act with nearly 15 years in the business.

Prince was too busy concentrating on working with Tony M in the band to even consider the business side of things. He had to make sure Tony, Kirk, and Damon all found Star Trek Next Generation uniforms that would fit. Worrying about masters was not important to him. He did use being naive as an excuse, but I truly think the art of getting Tony M to rap about Manure on "My Name Is Prince" was his huge artistic statement of the time, and writing raps about Manure is too time consuming to think about financial matters.

Seriously, the biggest factor in the remasters issue? Money. There just isn't any real money in remasters anymore. Other than some of the big box sets, individual cd remasters don't really sell. Just look at the piles of Madonna and Van Halen remasters in the bargain bins at Best Buy, Wal Mart, etc. Even the individual U2 remasters did not really move that many units...and U2 has much much better promotion out there among the oldies acts...

Look at the sale of Prince's original albums to begin with...

Purple Rain...1999, ATWIAD Diamonds...those are the big sellers...

Now if Prince had any sense, he'd work with Warners to make some big box set with several

different albums in them...and maybe make it a limited edition of 10,000 or so

Box 1: For You through Lovesexy

Box 2: Graffiti Bridge through Gold Experience

Or maybe a Super Deluxe for 1999, Purple Rain, and SOTT...problem is, Prince has absolutely no passion for projects like this.

stillwaiting said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

not many. But in 1992 I think Prince could have. One thing that always got me was how Prince played the victim. He was not a a teenager in 1992 when he was getting that $100Million deal (which even back then I did not think would ever really happen). He was a well established act with nearly 15 years in the business.

Prince was too busy concentrating on working with Tony M in the band to even consider the business side of things. He had to make sure Tony, Kirk, and Damon all found Star Trek Next Generation uniforms that would fit. Worrying about masters was not important to him. He did use being naive as an excuse, but I truly think the art of getting Tony M to rap about Manure on "My Name Is Prince" was his huge artistic statement of the time, and writing raps about Manure is too time consuming to think about financial matters.

you forgot jock straps!

stillwaiting said:

Prince was too busy concentrating on working with Tony M in the band to even consider the business side of things. He had to make sure Tony, Kirk, and Damon all found Star Trek Next Generation uniforms that would fit. Worrying about masters was not important to him. He did use being naive as an excuse, but I truly think the art of getting Tony M to rap about Manure on "My Name Is Prince" was his huge artistic statement of the time, and writing raps about Manure is too time consuming to think about financial matters.

Oh my God, I love you. The funniest thing I've read in a while!

databank said:

Masters are the industry's most precious commodity. There's NO WAY WB would have given him his masters no matter what P would have done, NO WAY. This for one thing would have created a precedent that would have given legal basis for every other MF singed at WB to reclaim their masters, at a time when the change of management made quite a lot of WB artists decide to opt out of renewing their contracts with the label. NO WAY.

.

ahum: http://www.hitfix.com/new...recordings

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Masters are the industry's most precious commodity. There's NO WAY WB would have given him his masters no matter what P would have done, NO WAY. This for one thing would have created a precedent that would have given legal basis for every other MF singed at WB to reclaim their masters, at a time when the change of management made quite a lot of WB artists decide to opt out of renewing their contracts with the label. NO WAY.

.

ahum: http://www.hitfix.com/new...recordings

1994??

How P's lawyers didn't tell him about this?! This created a precedent, he could have used this!

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

ahum: http://www.hitfix.com/new...recordings

1994??

How P's lawyers didn't tell him about this?! This created a precedent, he could have used this!

It did not create a precedent. It was a term of their contract. They said "we will not sign a new one unless we get our old masters back" their label agreed! And I am pretty sure other acts have done so way before 1994. Neither Prince nor his lawyers could use that to force WB to do anything at all.

Did Prince's $100 Million deal mean any other act could get the same deal?

Even if Prince gets these master recordings,it doesn't necessarily mean that he's gonna do anything with them I don't think he likes the idea of deluxe remastered editions of his old albums.He hates to look back.

SoulAlive said:

BartVanHemelen said:

SoulAlive said:

Even if Prince gets these master recordings,it doesn't necessarily mean that he's gonna do anything with them I don't think he likes the idea of deluxe remastered editions of his old albums.He hates to look back.

Yes he rather talks about things like 20ten deluxe (but still never relased it)

OnlyNDaUsa said:

databank said:

1994??

How P's lawyers didn't tell him about this?! This created a precedent, he could have used this!

It did not create a precedent. It was a term of their contract. They said "we will not sign a new one unless we get our old masters back" their label agreed!

Their label was a WEA one, too. So same family as Prince's.

IIRC REM also gained control of their masters in their mid-1990s contract renewal.

I get it now: the problem was that P had just signed a new 7 years contract so he was in no position to renegociate anything before 1999. He should have done it in 92, at which point it seems he wasn't even aware of the fact that he didn't own his masters (if the girl who posted so much gossip on Lipstick Alley is to be believed, and I tend to believe she was genuine) or he had to wait until 99. Basically if P had stayed calm and kept releasing his music on the old 1 album a year routine and maintained sufficient charts success to remain a major WB act, he could have been in a position, in 1999, to do it the way Metallica did it. But well... patience certainly isn't P's virtue

Honestly I'm glad he did it the way he did: 93-99 was quite a trip, a great time to be a fan!

It is to be noted that if P hadn't blown up at WB's face in early 93 meetings, blaming them for the so-called failure of (I think WB were quite satisfied with the sales, which were actually huge) and the failure of Carmen Electra (I think WB were a bit pissed because for once they'd really put some money in promoting it, but they'd have swallowed the pill quite easily: labels were making SO MUCH money back then) then start the public war with them in June 93, WB would have been just fine with him, and probably wouldn't even have declined to release Gold Nigga or shut Paisley Park down. From what I've read, it seems his attitude triggered theirs and Gold Nigga and shutting down PP was retaliation for his aggressive behavior towards them, both in private and in the media: they were perfectly fine with him in early 93, which makes sense or they wouldn't have signed the 92 deal in the first place.