On Arsenio, Prince said that there is no longer a rush to put out albums now that he is not under any contract. He said that he can now wait until he has enough songs that fit on a project before releasing an album.

I thought that him being emancipated meant more albums, not less.

He also reiterated that he has lots of material in the vault that is not finished.

I love the guy, but it is frustrating that this guy has so much music and we have not had a U.S. release of an album in five years.

It may be better for him now, but it was better for fans when he was with WB.

Prince can do no right!

When he was first away from Warner Bros he dropped Emancipation (3 discs) Crystal Ball (5 discs) inside two years. Since then we have had another triple set with Lotusflow3r and a fair few single disc releases (can't be bothered to count them). We the fans asked for an acoustic album - we got it. We asked for a piano album - we got it. We asked for a live album - we got it (triple again).

But people complained Prince didn't know how to edit himself. That it was better under Warners. That he released too much material. That he should hold back and only release the best stuff!

So now when he holds back for a few years and recharges himself we get more complaint!

Personally I would rather he held back and released something really good then throw out an ill-conceived album quickly.

jaypotton said:

Prince can do no right!

When he was first away from Warner Bros he dropped Emancipation (3 discs) Crystal Ball (5 discs) inside two years. Since then we have had another triple set with Lotusflow3r and a fair few single disc releases (can't be bothered to count them). We the fans asked for an acoustic album - we got it. We asked for a piano album - we got it. We asked for a live album - we got it (triple again).

But people complained Prince didn't know how to edit himself. That it was better under Warners. That he released too much material. That he should hold back and only release the best stuff!

So now when he holds back for a few years and recharges himself we get more complaint!

Personally I would rather he held back and released something really good then throw out an ill-conceived album quickly.

I think most of us were happy with the emancipation, crystal ball, one night alone, etc. burst of output.

It seems to me that this latest project was put together over the last year. It doesn't appear that much of anything that was recorded from 2009-2013 will be on this project. I'm sure that most of us are going to love it.

The guy can put out an album a year and still have great songs left over that will collect dust in the vault.

The albums are not being released because he doesn't have a record label and he does not do a good job following through on projects. It is a shame.

Artists who don't have a power that forces them to deliver often lose track. Prince needs someone who kicks him in the ass. It seems that he really has no masterplan, lost direction and is just coasting.

yeah, but one man's subpar is another man's shockadelica.

it's all relative. so when prince takes his time to put together

an album that's 'really good', the songs he picks for it may

still be song i don't like. in the meantime, outtakes like the

few we -luckily- got last year, say "groovy potential' might

be stuff i really dig a lot. etc etc etc.

/

this is why i prefer the prince that just throws everything at

us, all the time.

/

anyway, didn't he say just last year that he wasn't making

albums anymore but would from now on just release songs

another thing is the vault topic which was broached again by arsenio.

if prince had just made sure to have one decent website the last 15

years and if he'd even released just 1 songs each month (outside of

whatever he did release) as part of some "vault" series, he could've

released about 200 songs to his hardcore following.

what's the point of sitting on all that stuff? even if a lot of it will get a

release once he's gone, what's the point? we'll get 200 songs a year

when we're 65 ourselves? lol.

i'm not even talking prime 80s well known outtakes here but just the

kind of stuff he's got lying around from post warner sessions. it'd be

a steady stream of income (be it a small stream) and it would have

been a way to keep people close, instead of pushing them away with

oh you know what i'm not even gonna go there anymore. just urgh.

donnyenglish said:

On Arsenio, Prince said that there is no longer a rush to put out albums now that he is not under any contract. He said that he can now wait until he has enough songs that fit on a project before releasing an album.

I thought that him being emancipated meant more albums, not less.

He also reiterated that he has lots of material in the vault that is not finished.

I love the guy, but it is frustrating that this guy has so much music and we have not had a U.S. release of an album in five years.

It may be better for him now, but it was better for fans when he was with WB.

Dude, he became "emancipated" 18 years ago... And your complaining because he hasn't released an album in four? Prince is gonna be 56 in three months, I doubt he has the drive or energy he did at age 20. Lots of artists take years between albums. Damien Rice hasn't made an album in 8 years. I hope for your sake Prince doesnt go all Bowie and take 10.

Besides, usually when Prince takes a gap year between albums, the album he releases turns out pretty strong. Purple Rain, Rainbow Children, 3121, Lotusflower, etc. They were all released after gap years. Imagine what PlecElec will be like after a 4 year sabatical.

No...being emancipated means having freedom. Which in this case means Prince having the freedom to release as much or as little as he desires, with no one else dictating it to him. At the time he made the comment 18 years ago, he wanted to release a lot of music, and that's exactly what he did. 15 years after that, he did not want to release as much music, and that's exactly what he's done. I see no inconsistency between the statements.

...but he has easily released an albums worth of material over the last 4 years (probably more if you count the rehearsals). so it's not like it's been a barren wasteland like with most artists (U2, Bowie, Stones etc). I can see why he did it - as people were getting bored of an album a year that didn't do very well, so he took a different stance and started to embrace the interent to release singles/demos etc while he built an album he was happy with.

SuperSoulFighter said:

jaypotton said:

Prince can do no right!

When he was first away from Warner Bros he dropped Emancipation (3 discs) Crystal Ball (5 discs) inside two years. Since then we have had another triple set with Lotusflow3r and a fair few single disc releases (can't be bothered to count them). We the fans asked for an acoustic album - we got it. We asked for a piano album - we got it. We asked for a live album - we got it (triple again).

But people complained Prince didn't know how to edit himself. That it was better under Warners. That he released too much material. That he should hold back and only release the best stuff!

So now when he holds back for a few years and recharges himself we get more complaint!

Personally I would rather he held back and released something really good then throw out an ill-conceived album quickly.

Just a minor point--not everybody did complain when we were getting all that material. Sure, maybe I didn't love everything--but I was glad to be getting it and making my own selections about what was best. I've never been a "Prince needs an editor" guy, and I'm not now. I've been consistent on that. After 4 years [and no real substantial releases--though I've liked quite a few of the snacks we've gotten (even though I'm not supposed to still have quite a few of them, apparently)], I've got to stay I still think he should be releasing stuff, as it comes. I'd prefer as collections, but I don't buy the idea that it takes 4 years to get an album together for him. I'm pretty sure he's cranked out material as good as what he's put on many previous good album releases, and that they would have worked as well or better than what he has released. Do you think he hasn't? If he hasn't, do you think another year or two or even three will allow him to finally get 10 decent tracks together? Either he's done it several times in the last few years (which is what I think), or he really is tapped out and he'll never manage it again, so why not release what he's got as he goes?

I figure what will happen isn't either of the two possibilities you suggest in your last sentence. He'll hold back, but it still will be mostly pretty recent stuff, put together because it fits together because it was recorded pretty much together, not because he's waited for the right stuff to come about... because once he's left a batch of songs, he doesn't tend to return to them. What he finally releases won't be all that well-planned out, it will just be what he's been working on lately. Do you really think we're going to be getting the cream of the last 4 years? Whatever he did at the beginning, good or bad (or even freaking brilliant) is under so much dust in the vault that he'll never see it again, and since he tightened up the ship, we'll never see it either.

I would just like to see something that shows him working this 3rdEyeGirl style for all its worth, with new and strong tracks. And if it doesn't come soon, it never will. Something will, yes--but that album (and all its promise, which I think is substantial) would be sitting in a vault that it seems more and more that we're never gonna get opened.

I wonder what the vault really is. I mean how are the tracks stored? On tape? Digitally? Is it well organised and catalogued? I presume with technology today a vault would simply need to be a computer with a lot of storage, well, for the tracks he made in the digital age at least. Or are recordings still laid down on tape?

.

Would the tracks be stored as songs or would he store, for example, all the basslines together and the drum tracks seperately etc. Would he be able to pull out a specific song easily or would he have to hunt down the seperate parts from different places to retrieve a whole song?

EddieC said:

jaypotton said:

Prince can do no right!

When he was first away from Warner Bros he dropped Emancipation (3 discs) Crystal Ball (5 discs) inside two years. Since then we have had another triple set with Lotusflow3r and a fair few single disc releases (can't be bothered to count them). We the fans asked for an acoustic album - we got it. We asked for a piano album - we got it. We asked for a live album - we got it (triple again).

But people complained Prince didn't know how to edit himself. That it was better under Warners. That he released too much material. That he should hold back and only release the best stuff!

So now when he holds back for a few years and recharges himself we get more complaint!

Personally I would rather he held back and released something really good then throw out an ill-conceived album quickly.

Just a minor point--not everybody did complain when we were getting all that material. Sure, maybe I didn't love everything--but I was glad to be getting it and making my own selections about what was best. I've never been a "Prince needs an editor" guy, and I'm not now. I've been consistent on that. After 4 years [and no real substantial releases--though I've liked quite a few of the snacks we've gotten (even though I'm not supposed to still have quite a few of them, apparently)], I've got to stay I still think he should be releasing stuff, as it comes. I'd prefer as collections, but I don't buy the idea that it takes 4 years to get an album together for him. I'm pretty sure he's cranked out material as good as what he's put on many previous good album releases, and that they would have worked as well or better than what he has released. Do you think he hasn't? If he hasn't, do you think another year or two or even three will allow him to finally get 10 decent tracks together? Either he's done it several times in the last few years (which is what I think), or he really is tapped out and he'll never manage it again, so why not release what he's got as he goes?

I figure what will happen isn't either of the two possibilities you suggest in your last sentence. He'll hold back, but it still will be mostly pretty recent stuff, put together because it fits together because it was recorded pretty much together, not because he's waited for the right stuff to come about... because once he's left a batch of songs, he doesn't tend to return to them. What he finally releases won't be all that well-planned out, it will just be what he's been working on lately. Do you really think we're going to be getting the cream of the last 4 years? Whatever he did at the beginning, good or bad (or even freaking brilliant) is under so much dust in the vault that he'll never see it again, and since he tightened up the ship, we'll never see it either.

I would just like to see something that shows him working this 3rdEyeGirl style for all its worth, with new and strong tracks. And if it doesn't come soon, it never will. Something will, yes--but that album (and all its promise, which I think is substantial) would be sitting in a vault that it seems more and more that we're never gonna get opened.

I've bolded the points I am responding to:


1. You're right not everyone complained but a lot did (on here). Prince himself even commented on it in his lyrics on Everlasting Now (well maybe that was more about style of music). I too have loved having a wealth of material and then cutting together my own albums. In fact my personal playlists/albums do not reflect the same song list as anything released since 1989! Itunes has allowed me to put together the albums *I* wish he had released (eg Graffiti Bridge being a Prince only album with a few more tracks taken from the Vault).

2. I don't think it has taken him 4 years to put together this album and agree with your later point that most of the songs will have been written/recorded over the last 12 months. I think he is really enjoying playing with 3rdEyeGirl (it shows from the gigs). However, on the Arsenio Hall show he mentioned how he likes to hold tracks back until he has others that "fit" with it (this was a specific reference to The Breakdown).

3. Your last point re not returning to a batch of songs is (take this politely) completely wrong. Prince is notorious throughout his entire career of dipping back into the vault and pulling out old tracks to rework. Graffiti Bridge was pretty much ALL vault tracks. Some of the tracks on Lotusflow3r were recorded in the same sessions as those for 3121. Hell he even reworked Extraloveable in 2011 and released it.

[Edited 3/7/14 3:47am]

Rebeljuice said:

I wonder what the vault really is. I mean how are the tracks stored? On tape? Digitally? Is it well organised and catalogued? I presume with technology today a vault would simply need to be a computer with a lot of storage, well, for the tracks he made in the digital age at least. Or are recordings still laid down on tape?

.

Would the tracks be stored as songs or would he store, for example, all the basslines together and the drum tracks seperately etc. Would he be able to pull out a specific song easily or would he have to hunt down the seperate parts from different places to retrieve a whole song?

In most of the books written about Prince there is refrence to The Vault. Most worringly there are often quotes from engineers such as HM Buff who describe Prince's complete lack of concern around properly looking after the content with tapes corroding and getting wet (there was a small flood at one point).

HM Buff and other engineers in the past have been quoted as almost begging Prince to better preserve his (vault) legacy by "baking the tapes" (not sure what that means) but Prince has apparently shown ZERO interest all these years.

I would expect the vault to contain a mix of analogue tapes and digital files/discs etc.

I would expect there to be a mix of full (arguably complete/finished) songs as well as specific/interesting instrument tracks. Again from the books written about Prince, his method of working tends to be to build up a song from an interesting melody or guitar part etc and he likes to work on that "song" until it is finished. So I would therefore expect the vault to be mostly "finished" songs...

The reason I use "" around finished is that Prince has been quoted as saying a song is never finished until it is officially released. Until then it is a work in progress. THAT is ONE reason why he doesn't like bootlegs because we are hearing something he is not yet satisfied with.

Of course a lot of people on here (going to contradict my original reply on this post) would like to get hold of all these tracks - he would just need to label them DEMO!!!

[Edited 3/7/14 3:59am]

Whatever being emancipated means to Prince, it's personal and won't conform to anyone's interpretation.

.

In the mid 90s, it seemed to mean the ability to release more albums. In the late 90s/early 2000s, it shifted more to being an Internet music pioneer. In the time since Musicology, I think it meant getting the lion's share of the profits from CDs and touring.

.

However you look at it, emancipation to him meant being free from someone else making the rules.

.

To an earlier post about a Vault Series of downloads: sign me up today.

donnyenglish said:

1. My original point is still valid. We will be getting fewer Prince Albums now even though he claims that he is old school and prefers to release albums instead of singles. 2. He is no longer motivated to release albums as frequently as in the past because he has no contract. 3. He does not have the machine behind him to take his ideas from the recording studio to an Album for his fans to consume. 4. Because of the above, most of the Vault will never see the light of day. This includes past songs amd future songs from the greatest artist of my lifetime that will collect dust in the Vault and eventually be destroyed when he dies.

hmm sadly I think you are right on all of this - most worryingly with regards to the Vault.

Yes I would like to see albums more frequently but this time I have been content to wait. I really HOPE it means an album of better quality than those he has released over the last decade or so (there are absolute gems on ALL of those albums but as whole conceived albums they fall short of his best work - all my opinion of course).

[Edited 3/7/14 4:14am]

[Edited 3/7/14 4:15am]

jaypotton said:

EddieC said:

Just a minor point--not everybody did complain when we were getting all that material. Sure, maybe I didn't love everything--but I was glad to be getting it and making my own selections about what was best. I've never been a "Prince needs an editor" guy, and I'm not now. I've been consistent on that. After 4 years [and no real substantial releases--though I've liked quite a few of the snacks we've gotten (even though I'm not supposed to still have quite a few of them, apparently)], I've got to stay I still think he should be releasing stuff, as it comes. I'd prefer as collections, but I don't buy the idea that it takes 4 years to get an album together for him. I'm pretty sure he's cranked out material as good as what he's put on many previous good album releases, and that they would have worked as well or better than what he has released. Do you think he hasn't? If he hasn't, do you think another year or two or even three will allow him to finally get 10 decent tracks together? Either he's done it several times in the last few years (which is what I think), or he really is tapped out and he'll never manage it again, so why not release what he's got as he goes?

I figure what will happen isn't either of the two possibilities you suggest in your last sentence. He'll hold back, but it still will be mostly pretty recent stuff, put together because it fits together because it was recorded pretty much together, not because he's waited for the right stuff to come about... because once he's left a batch of songs, he doesn't tend to return to them. What he finally releases won't be all that well-planned out, it will just be what he's been working on lately. Do you really think we're going to be getting the cream of the last 4 years? Whatever he did at the beginning, good or bad (or even freaking brilliant) is under so much dust in the vault that he'll never see it again, and since he tightened up the ship, we'll never see it either.

I would just like to see something that shows him working this 3rdEyeGirl style for all its worth, with new and strong tracks. And if it doesn't come soon, it never will. Something will, yes--but that album (and all its promise, which I think is substantial) would be sitting in a vault that it seems more and more that we're never gonna get opened.

I've bolded the points I am responding to:


1. You're right not everyone complained but a lot did (on here). Prince himself even commented on it in his lyrics on Everlasting Now (well maybe that was more about style of music). I too have loved having a wealth of material and then cutting together my own albums. In fact my personal playlists/albums do not reflect the same song list as anything released since 1989! Itunes has allowed me to put together the albums *I* wish he had released (eg Graffiti Bridge being a Prince only album with a few more tracks taken from the Vault).

2. I don't think it has taken him 4 years to put together this album and agree with your later point that most of the songs will have been written/recorded over the last 12 months. I think he is really enjoying playing with 3rdEyeGirl (it shows from the gigs). However, on the Arsenio Hall show he mentioned how he likes to hold tracks back until he has others that "fit" with it (this was a specific reference to The Breakdown).

3. Your last point re not returning to a batch of songs is (take this politely) completely wrong. Prince is notorious throughout his entire career of dipping back into the vault and pulling out old tracks to rework. Graffiti Bridge was pretty much ALL vault tracks. Some of the tracks on Lotusflow3r were recorded in the same sessions as those for 3121. Hell he even reworked Extraloveable in 2011 and released it.

[Edited 3/7/14 3:47am]

On your third point--I knew it wasn't completely true when I typed it, and decided to do it anyway, knowing full well I was leaving myself open to someone calling me on it. Graffiti Bridge, being a movie idea that was in development, might be a bit of an odd case, and I'd claim (without necessarily thinking much about it before making the claim) that it's usually not a case of picking the strongest tracks from earlier and holding them, but like I said, I knew I was overreaching when I made the initial statement. So, I was wrong, and I knew it was a weak point when I said it.

EddieC said:

On your third point--I knew it wasn't completely true when I typed it, and decided to do it anyway, knowing full well I was leaving myself open to someone calling me on it. Graffiti Bridge, being a movie idea that was in development, might be a bit of an odd case, and I'd claim (without necessarily thinking much about it before making the claim) that it's usually not a case of picking the strongest tracks from earlier and holding them, but like I said, I knew I was overreaching when I made the initial statement. So, I was wrong, and I knew it was a weak point when I said it.

Eddie hope I came across politely when calling you on it!

GB is only the best example of this practice. Even great albums like SOTT dipped into the vault. ICNTTPOYM was originally recorded in 1982!

I'd rather listen to all the "unfinished" vault material than to what the prince of now makes out of his old stuff, extralovable reloaded for example.

And I think he doesn't like bootlegs, because he can't sell us his old stuff as new.

I am happy prince is waiting to put out anything official. I think prince is taking fan advice and trying to test material and see what is actually going to be a good record. What is confusing is that prince KNOWS what his good songs are ... THE BREAKDOWN .. he acknowledges that it is his best song yet he does not release it or mention if it is on the new record .. he also says he is taking his time to see what songs go together .. i say rubbish .. they should not go together .. he will have much better success if he mish mashes the better tracks no matter the genre .. than to bother with a 3eg themed half intrumental mostly boring sub par riff rock .. than if he mixes it up .. I applaud prince for waiting but I have my doubts it will improve his ability to put out a great record .. I would have been happier NOT hearing many of the new songs as they are so bad .. His career would do better if he could pick out his good songs ahead of time and only release them without all the reallly bad songs .. he needs that right now .. he needs a record that does not suck badly .. sure he could tour the hits forever and make plenty bank but you can tell his soul needs a record that does not suck .. and no .. rainbow, and lotus are not examples of records that do not suck .. If the BREakdown is not on the new record it will show prince is abolutely nuts

donnyenglish said:

jaypotton said:

Prince can do no right!

When he was first away from Warner Bros he dropped Emancipation (3 discs) Crystal Ball (5 discs) inside two years. Since then we have had another triple set with Lotusflow3r and a fair few single disc releases (can't be bothered to count them). We the fans asked for an acoustic album - we got it. We asked for a piano album - we got it. We asked for a live album - we got it (triple again).

But people complained Prince didn't know how to edit himself. That it was better under Warners. That he released too much material. That he should hold back and only release the best stuff!

So now when he holds back for a few years and recharges himself we get more complaint!

Personally I would rather he held back and released something really good then throw out an ill-conceived album quickly.

I think most of us were happy with the emancipation, crystal ball, one night alone, etc. burst of output.

It seems to me that this latest project was put together over the last year. It doesn't appear that much of anything that was recorded from 2009-2013 will be on this project. I'm sure that most of us are going to love it.

The guy can put out an album a year and still have great songs left over that will collect dust in the vault.

The albums are not being released because he doesn't have a record label and he does not do a good job following through on projects. It is a shame.

Having a record label doesn't have anything to do with it. I do agree with your comment, though. P could easily sell his stuff through 3rdeyetunes.com and promote his music, but he gets lazy when it comes to promotion.

Another reason Prince doesn't like bootlegs and leaving the past tracks behind in the vault is that he knows he can't make that type of funk anymore. He doesn't have it in him. He's not that 20/30 something anymore. Gone are the great lyrics and the salacious beats we grew up with in the 80's and early 90's.

Prince is older now and he's slowed down. He's not going to run around half naked and talk about banging it out in a Little Red Corvette. We just have to be happy with middle aged Prince and his middle age ideas in his songs.

This may be hyperbole, but, in my opinion, Prince is a big part of U.S. history. He is bigger than music itself. He is a historical figure and a part of US history much like Henry Ford, Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Steve Jobs, etc., etc.

His past work, in some ways, is a national treasure and has profound significance. Malcolm X is probably not proud of many of the things that he said before he went to Mecca, but all of his work is a part of who he is and a part of history.

It will be a travesty if much of the Vault dies when Prince dies. Finished or unfinished, Prince's ideas and art have a place in history and I hope that he realizes this and preserves his past recordings and releases them.

donnyenglish said:

This may be hyperbole, but, in my opinion, Prince is a big part of U.S. history. He is bigger than music itself. He is a historical figure and a part of US history much like Henry Ford, Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Steve Jobs, etc., etc.

His past work, in some ways, is a national treasure and has profound significance. Malcolm X is probably not proud of many of the things that he said before he went to Mecca, but all of his work is a part of who he is and a part of history.

It will be a travesty if much of the Vault dies when Prince dies. Finished or unfinished, Prince's ideas and art have a place in history and I hope that he realizes this and preserves his past recordings and releases them.

I totally agree with you, but to most people Prince is just a pop icon from the 80s. They don't look at his work as being "historical" like they do some of his peers. I also think that is partially Prince's fault because he's not one to really keep re-releasing his back catalog. He is content with the original releases being out with no 24 bit remastering (or whatever is going on at the time).

I do think that once he passes (hopefully not soon), his past work will be rediscovered by future generations and continue to live on. We don't know what WB owns that he turned over to them prior to him leaving.

its amazing to me how people expect him to be the exact same person he was 20 years ago when things like that were said. i would bet if it was the 30 year old prince in todays world, with todays technoogy he would be cranking out album after album non stop, but hes just a diffrent person now. get over people, move on.

savagedreams said:

its amazing to me how people expect him to be the exact same person he was 20 years ago when things like that were said. i would bet if it was the 30 year old prince in todays world, with todays technoogy he would be cranking out album after album non stop, but hes just a diffrent person now. get over people, move on.

God--twenty years. Wow. The war with Warners was twenty years ago. Wow. I'm old.

Thanks for making this a real downer there.

donnyenglish said:

On Arsenio, Prince said that there is no longer a rush to put out albums now that he is not under any contract. He said that he can now wait until he has enough songs that fit on a project before releasing an album.

I thought that him being emancipated meant more albums, not less.

He also reiterated that he has lots of material in the vault that is not finished.

I love the guy, but it is frustrating that this guy has so much music and we have not had a U.S. release of an album in five years.

It may be better for him now, but it was better for fans when he was with WB.

And if I'm not mistaken did he or did he not say back in the day because he isn't under any contract or record company that he could release more music than what he was allowed under WB.