tatocorcu said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

Well I think being gay or bisexual is a choice ultimately, for the conscious individual or if you have self awareness. I think a lot of people trick themselves into thinking that theyre only some way because of tramatic experiences in childhood, or because they were raised by women or things of the like. Which is alright, but as long as you realize whats going on, that doesnt mean you dont have the choice to be straight or gay if you choose. Thats my personal view anyway.

Apologies if that sounded offensive by the way.

[Edited 2/6/14 10:35am]

I'm sorry to break it to you but your personal view is wrong. If you really think that anyone would choose growing up isolated from family and friends, being discriminated against on a regular basis, having restricted access to many areas of life, potentially face inprisonment, violence and even death in many countries, is that you really have a very high opinion of gay people: we would have to be really strong to choose all that shit. I am not playing the victim, by the way, I have had a very easy life and none of the horror stories that we all know about have been a part of my life. Also, was there a moment in your life when you made the conscious decision to live it as a straight person (I take for granted that you are straight)? Did you really tell yourself 'it's hard to choose, but given the choice I'll go for women/men'. Did you really? Well, me neither... Just a quick edit, as I just read the final line on your last post: I don't find your views offensive, not at all, but I have to disagree completely. [Edited 2/6/14 10:49am]

Hence why I said because of traumatic expierences growing up, my dear.

And yes it is that easy for me. I could bang a guy if I chose to personally, but I dont because I dont really get turned on physically, probably mentally if I tried.

Personal views and opinions are never wrong, theyre opinions.

LayzieKiddZ said:

tatocorcu said:

LayzieKiddZ said: What do you mean?

Well I think being gay or bisexual is a choice ultimately, for the conscious individual or if you have self awareness. I think a lot of people trick themselves into thinking that theyre only some way because of tramatic experiences in childhood, or because they were raised by women or things of the like. Which is alright, but as long as you realize whats going on, that doesnt mean you dont have the choice to be straight or gay if you choose. Thats my personal view anyway.

Apologies if that sounded offensive by the way.

Layziekiddz? Stop being lazy and read a bit more

Studies upon studies have been done on this

OldFriends4Sale said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

I dont think Prince is homophobe, but I do think he has an attitude about people who do it for fun and those who take it too seriously and need to grow up. He probably doesnt care if its to play but eventually you do grow out of it. Which is what I took Da Bourgeoisie as.

All the mature open individuals have done it, David Bowie and so on and move on.

Im one who also believes that its ok to do whatever you want sexually, but dont play around like its not a choice or something or act the victim. Do it confidently and acknowledge it for what it is. The line in Chaos and Disorder I took it as him defending not insulting.

I thought that song was about Women(lesbian)?

And U nor Prince knows what David Bowie does or doesn't do.

Hell how many married men still mess around with other women. What is the 'growing up' you're talking about. If people really did grow up, there wouldn't be so many divorces.

.

Ur post sorry is just 'ignorant'

What were the ages of the women Prince dated from Anna Garcia 2 Bria Valente?

.

And lesbians tend to be more monogamous and 'family' oriented

.

I don't know if that's how Prince took it as u say, because his whole life was mostly about messing around.

.

And if you think he thinks it's a choice, that is another side of homophobia, I don't believe anyone would choose to be different that way. Knowing all the issues that come from people like u who believe it's a choice.

Yeah dude, it doesnt matter if someones lesbian or gay. Its the same message.

And nope we dont know what they do. But hes a straight person in a relationship with children. And thats my point. Same with Prince minus the kids.

Maybe they touch a pickle every now and then, but that doesnt mean they dont have a straight prefrence. I dont think you understand the complexity of what I'm saying, its not black and white.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

Well I think being gay or bisexual is a choice ultimately, for the conscious individual or if you have self awareness. I think a lot of people trick themselves into thinking that theyre only some way because of tramatic experiences in childhood, or because they were raised by women or things of the like. Which is alright, but as long as you realize whats going on, that doesnt mean you dont have the choice to be straight or gay if you choose. Thats my personal view anyway.

Apologies if that sounded offensive by the way.

Layziekiddz? Stop being lazy and read a bit more

Studies upon studies have been done on this

Studies also show that drinking milk is 'good for you', when its not. FOX news also said Gaddafi was a terrorist. The atomic partical was thought to be the smallest untill they found out the quark was.

Think for yourself, it aint illegal yet.

LayzieKiddZ said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Layziekiddz? Stop being lazy and read a bit more

Studies upon studies have been done on this

Studies also show that drinking milk is 'good for you', when its not. FOX news also said Gaddafi was a terrorist. The atomic partical was thought to be the smallest untill they found out the quark was.

Think for yourself, it aint illegal yet.

It depends on the person metab, drinking milk isn't good for everyone

But those examples sound silly.

I said Study, that means you search, Fox is someone telling U something.

And milk can be good for you,

the atomic partical serious? what does that mean, they kept studying until they found more information, don't be lazy

you heard something someone told U, 18?

LayzieKiddZ said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I thought that song was about Women(lesbian)?

And U nor Prince knows what David Bowie does or doesn't do.

Hell how many married men still mess around with other women. What is the 'growing up' you're talking about. If people really did grow up, there wouldn't be so many divorces.

.

Ur post sorry is just 'ignorant'

What were the ages of the women Prince dated from Anna Garcia 2 Bria Valente?

.

And lesbians tend to be more monogamous and 'family' oriented

.

I don't know if that's how Prince took it as u say, because his whole life was mostly about messing around.

.

And if you think he thinks it's a choice, that is another side of homophobia, I don't believe anyone would choose to be different that way. Knowing all the issues that come from people like u who believe it's a choice.

Yeah dude, it doesnt matter if someones lesbian or gay. Its the same message.

And nope we dont know what they do. But hes a straight person in a relationship with children. And thats my point. Same with Prince minus the kids.

Maybe they touch a pickle every now and then, but that doesnt mean they dont have a straight prefrence. I dont think you understand the complexity of what I'm saying, its not black and white.

that makes a person bisexual, straight doesn't mean heterosexual

.

say the word dude, Dick or Penis Cazzo in Italian

.

Dude, please sexuality is one of my areas of study since I was 15, I'm now 41

You can't even say Penis, you have to call it a Pickle lol

Hmm. I've been raised by a single mother AND have had traumatic experiences in both my child and adulthood, and I'm straight. I have been involved in Theater, Acting, and the Arts for over 30 years. I have had many gay friends over that time. From my earliest days of sexual experimentation, I have always gravitated towards girls or women. I never once had an automatic attraction to men. I don't believe choice had anything to do with it. I have always automatically been attracted to women. If no amount of reading up on this subject is going to enlighten anyone, maybe common sense is the way to go here.

jamiestarr1uk said:

I don't know if this has been picked up before, but Prince is definitely revising some of his previously homophobic material. If you are gay and into Prince, you've always had a bit of a paradox on your hands. I remember writing an article for Uptown magazine back in the day, exploring why so many gay men & women loved Prince - for me, it was the duality of his image back then: straight/gay - black/white - male/female etc etc. The paradox comes when you hear songs like Bambi, a blistering guitar funk masterpiece but pretty offensive to your average lesbian, I would think. And then there's Chaos & Disorder - 'he's gay/used to mean he's happy/nowadays/happy ain't allowed' - an undeniably homophobic lyric which bemoans gay emancipation and sounds like something your nan would say, just after she mumbled on about how 'you can't even call them darkies anymore'!! This has always bothered me a bit, being a Prince fan & gay, and I often wondered whether, in my fantasy meet with Prince, he would be cool about my sexuality. So tonight, at the Electric Ballroom, it was just great to hear him revise the lyric of Chaos & Disorder, to say 'he's gay/used to mean he's happy/nowadays/WE'RE HAPPY AND WE'RE PROUD'. One line. But I clocked it,Prince, and it was cool and it meant the world to me. Thanks for a completely wonderful night. Welcome back to LONDON!

olympics statement?

luv2tha99s said:

luv2tha99s said:

Hmm. I've been raised by a single mother AND have had traumatic experiences in both my child and adulthood, and I'm straight. I have been involved in Theater, Acting, and the Arts for over 30 years. I have had many gay friends over that time. From my earliest days of sexual experimentation, I have always gravitated towards girls or women. I never once had an automatic attraction to men. I don't believe choice had anything to do with it. I have always automatically been attracted to women. If no amount of reading up on this subject is going to enlighten anyone, maybe common sense is the way to go here.

If we go by Lazzyboyz ideals almost everyone in the world would be gay

who hasn't had traumatic experiences and 99% of us were raised by women

He must be reading some 1945 book on Sex

OldFriends4Sale said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

Yeah dude, it doesnt matter if someones lesbian or gay. Its the same message.

And nope we dont know what they do. But hes a straight person in a relationship with children. And thats my point. Same with Prince minus the kids.

Maybe they touch a pickle every now and then, but that doesnt mean they dont have a straight prefrence. I dont think you understand the complexity of what I'm saying, its not black and white.

that makes a person bisexual, straight doesn't mean heterosexual

.

say the word dude, Dick or Penis Cazzo in Italian

.

Dude, please sexuality is one of my areas of study since I was 15, I'm now 41

You can't even say Penis, you have to call it a Pickle lol

Of course I said pickle. I found it humorous. Theres a problem with that? Unless you want to be super serious on the internet.

And... sure, study. My point is you can be completely straight (hetro) if you felt like it as many people claim and are. Wheather its because they got bored, realized it wasnt truely them, or whatever the reason. Just like you said there are people who still fool around with the same sex and we dont know, there could do the opposite not touch the same sex.

luv2tha99s said:

Hmm. I've been raised by a single mother AND have had traumatic experiences in both my child and adulthood, and I'm straight. I have been involved in Theater, Acting, and the Arts for over 30 years. I have had many gay friends over that time. From my earliest days of sexual experimentation, I have always gravitated towards girls or women. I never once had an automatic attraction to men. I don't believe choice had anything to do with it. I have always automatically been attracted to women. If no amount of reading up on this subject is going to enlighten anyone, maybe common sense is the way to go here.

See, there you go! It isnt black and white.

tatocorcu said:

luv2tha99s said:

Hmm. I've been raised by a single mother AND have had traumatic experiences in both my child and adulthood, and I'm straight. I have been involved in Theater, Acting, and the Arts for over 30 years. I have had many gay friends over that time. From my earliest days of sexual experimentation, I have always gravitated towards girls or women. I never once had an automatic attraction to men. I don't believe choice had anything to do with it. I have always automatically been attracted to women. If no amount of reading up on this subject is going to enlighten anyone, maybe common sense is the way to go here.

I really is that simple, isn't it

Oui!

tatocorcu said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

Hence why I said because of traumatic expierences growing up, my dear.

And yes it is that easy for me. I could bang a guy if I chose to personally, but I dont because I dont really get turned on physically, probably mentally if I tried.

Personal views and opinions are never wrong, theyre opinions.

As I told you, I have not had any traumatic experiences. Opinions are opinions but what you are talking about it's not an opinion: it is a fact that I did not choose to be gay. And anything you have to say against that fact will be wrong. You can choose to have gay sex (although as I get older I find that more and more men choose not to have sex with me) but you cannot choose to be gay. It's not the same

I also never said you have to have traumatic things every time. I said a lot of times it happens. Either way its rationalizing for different reasons was my point.

14

LayzieKiddZ said:

BobGeorge909 said:

BobGeorge909 said:

Its almost to the point where someone has to enjoy getting buttfucked in order to not be homophobic.

It is all meshed with religious idealogy (factual or not) and science

.

If u look at a lot of the arguements against homosexuality/bisexuality it's usually targeted toward men, when you listen to the points people are bringing up. Most of the time it's from men.

.

I had the same issues at one time. right or wrong, I just don't believe anyone chooses homo/bisexual desires. Now being Gay or Str8 to me are choices. It's 'cultural in a sense

as in a homosexual man can live a str8 life.

.

Homophobia also shows up in the judgements by people that believe Prince is gay for points A B & C, because no str8 man would wear shoes like that or wear this or that etc

BobGeorge909 said:

Its almost to the point where someone has to enjoy getting buttfucked in order to not be homophobic.

I don't think all homo/bisexual mean are into that either so...

.

When a man can get off on 2 women having homosex, but 'preach' against 2 men having homosex

then that's hypocracy and homophobia especially geared toward men.

.

And yeah we are driving way off topic. But in adult films, (homosex) is a part of Str8 porn, accepted. Homosex that involves 2 women. But of course any kind of bisex that would involve men would not be a part of it...

I wish there was a "like" button here for this thread!

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

who he was in 1984 is much different from Prince now since his JW/Larry Graham conversion

.

If a (non black)person get's mad at their black friend/spouse and calls them the N word, that a signal that person still has some prejudice issues.

.

Maybe it's not on the level of gay bashing, but no one is going to tell me he doesn't have some homophobia. disliking male homosexuality and being cool with female homosexuality is hypocracy.

Wendy called him a whore and it sounds like he just shot back at her. It does not make it okay but people say things they do not mean when they are angry.Trust me lots of guys have no issues with Lesibians

He shot back with something he believed was probably wrong. Just like being a whore is wrong

I'm a dude, I know lots of guys have no issues with lesbians, but I know of too many stories of lesbians bashed or sexually verbally assaulted for being lesbian. When guys realize that the fantasy is not a reality that they can't have sex with the 2 women, then it turns to revulsion

BobGeorge909 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Wendy called him a whore and it sounds like he just shot back at her. It does not make it okay but people say things they do not mean when they are angry.Trust me lots of guys have no issues with Lesibians

He shot back with something he believed was probably wrong. Just like being a whore is wrong

I'm a dude, I know lots of guys have no issues with lesbians, but I know of too many stories of lesbians bashed or sexually verbally assaulted for being lesbian. When guys realize that the fantasy is not a reality that they can't have sex with the 2 women, then it turns to revulsion

----- So it was okay for Wendy to call him a whore and be up in his business. Do really think he would have said nothing back? I can tell you that had no chance of happening. As far as Wendy if you cannot take it do not dish it out. I also highly doubt he would bash or assault a women for just being a lesbians. I would take a wild guess that he wishes he was one after all he as associated with plenty of woman who go both ways( by associate I mean in a sexual way).

OldFriends4Sale said:

BobGeorge909 said:

Its almost to the point where someone has to enjoy getting buttfucked in order to not be homophobic.

I don't think all homo/bisexual mean are into that either so...

.

When a man can get off on 2 women having homosex, but 'preach' against 2 men having homosex

then that's hypocracy and homophobia especially geared toward men.

.

And yeah we are driving way off topic. But in adult films, (homosex) is a part of Str8 porn, accepted. Homosex that involves 2 women. But of course any kind of bisex that would involve men would not be a part of it...

Straight guys like looking at naked women they do not want to look at naked dudes ( or at least the private parts). I know this because over the years I have asked a lot of guys about this hyprocracy and they just do not see it this way.

jamiestarr1uk said:

[...] And then there's Chaos & Disorder - 'he's gay/used to mean he's happy/nowadays/happy ain't allowed' - an undeniably homophobic lyric which bemoans gay emancipation and sounds like something your nan would say, just after she mumbled on about how 'you can't even call them darkies anymore'!!

You have misunderstood that lyric.

You shouldn't use an expression such as "undeniably" when there's nothing in that lyric that could be taken to mean that he himself doesn't think homosexuality shouldn't be "allowed". He's obviously referring to other people's attitudes.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think all homo/bisexual mean are into that either so...

.

When a man can get off on 2 women having homosex, but 'preach' against 2 men having homosex

then that's hypocracy and homophobia especially geared toward men.

.

And yeah we are driving way off topic. But in adult films, (homosex) is a part of Str8 porn, accepted. Homosex that involves 2 women. But of course any kind of bisex that would involve men would not be a part of it...

Straight guys like looking at naked women they do not want to look at naked dudes ( or at least the private parts). I know this because over the years I have asked a lot of guys about this hyprocracy and they just do not see it this way.

lol I don't want to either, but I've found the real hypocracy when they make judgments against (male)homosexuality, Condem it. But get off on women. Of course if the women are 'Butch' or mannish then they'll condem that too