APRIL 1997 * MUSICIAN

The Sound of Emancipation

Yet your songs don't rely on samples in a structural sense. Unlike a lot of dance-oriented musicians, you use samples to adorn rather than to support a tune.

I am so glad you said that! I've heard a whole lot of musicians who have had a hit record and then come to Paisley Park to set up and jam with the New Power Generation. Now, I'm not a judge, but I know when I see someone jamming and when I see someone drownin' [laughs]! I have to pull their plug and save some of their asses. Man, learn your instrument! Be a musician! You can't call yourself a musician if you just take a sample and loop it. You can call yourself a thief, because all you're doing is stealing somebody else's groove. Just don't call it music.

This conservative POV annoys me to hell too.

For conservative classical musicians jazz was junk. For many conservative jazz musicians rock, funk and all was crap. And now guess who's been the rockers' and funkateers' black lambs for 20 years: electronic music and hip-hop (which is, by essence, electronic music).

This is ridiculous. Plenty of well trained jazz musicians play crappy, uninspired elevator jazz while some electronic musicians who hardly ever touched an intrument other than computers, sequencers and samplers have composed extremely creative and complex music. + in terms of skills it's easier to be a bad rock band than to be an extremely good electronic music composer.

Art is not about "how" you do it but about "how good you are at what you do", no matter what is the "what" you do. Music and art are all about being creative, innovative and skilled in one particular domain. Prince of all people should know that. I think conservative Wynton Marsalis wouldn't think much of 1999: my dad who's a jazz and classical afficionado certainly couldn't make the diference between Sign O The Times and the last Ke$ha album! Still it's no secret that 1999 and SOTT were 2 of the most innovative and strongest albums and artistic statements of their time

But maybe the problem, and I've said it numerous times, is Prince's lack of musical culture: it seems he hasn't heard a single record outside of mainstream music played on mainstream radios since the late 80's. And of course by comparison to Prince's days, what you hear on mainstream radios and MTV nowadays is the worst junk the music industry has to feed uneducated consumers with! He that's what he bases his opinion of electronic music on, then sure I can understand all the dis! But that's like 2% of what's really happening in the world of electronic music, the worst 2%! Except for Björk, Prince probably hasn't got a clue of who the great electronic composers of the 90's and 2000's are and of what they did (hell! he hadn't even heard of Tricky in 1997, back when Tricky was the hottest artist in the alternative music world!). Prince is too focused on american mainstream pop, rock and R&B. There's a whole world of musical experimentations and alternative music out there. I wish these gals from 3rdEyeGirl would expose him to some of it. They're young, they should know.

[Edited 3/5/14 13:07pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

I just ignore him when he says that. It's his opinion and this is America, but there's a lot of good music out there that is totally computer generated. Computers are just like instruments--they produce good sound if the person behind them knows what they're doing.

databank said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

databank said:

This conservative POV annoys me to hell too.

For conservative classical musicians jazz was junk. For many conservative jazz musicians rock, funk and all was crap. And now guess who's been the rockers' and funkateers' black lambs for 20 years: electronic music and hip-hop (which is, by essence, electronic music).

This is ridiculous. Plenty of well trained jazz musicians play crappy, uninspired elevator jazz while some electronic musicians who hardly ever touched an intrument other than computers, sequencers and samplers have composed extremely creative and complex music. + in terms of skills it's easier to be a bad rock band than to be an extremely good electronic music composer.

Art is not about "how" you do it but about "how good you are at what you do", no matter what is the "what" you do. Music and art are all about being creative, innovative and skilled in one particular domain. Prince of all people should know that. I think conservative Wynton Marsalis wouldn't think much of 1999: my dad who's a jazz and classical afficionado certainly couldn't make the diference between Sign O The Times and the last Ke$ha album! Still it's no secret that 1999 and SOTT were 2 of the most innovative and strongest albums and artistic statements of their time

But maybe the problem, and I've said it numerous times, is Prince's lack of musical culture: it seems he hasn't heard a single record outside of mainstream music played on mainstream radios since the late 80's. And of course by comparison to Prince's days, what you hear on mainstream radios and MTV nowadays is the worst junk the music industry has to feed uneducated consumers with! He that's what he bases his opinion of electronic music on, then sure I can understand all the dis! But that's like 2% of what's really happening in the world of electronic music, the worst 2%! Except for Björk, Prince probably hasn't got a clue of who the great electronic composers of the 90's and 2000's are and of what they did (hell! he hadn't even heard of Tricky in 1997, back when Tricky was the hottest artist in the alternative music world!). Prince is too focused on american mainstream pop, rock and R&B. There's a whole world of musical experimentations and alternative music out there. I wish these gals from 3rdEyeGirl would expose him to some of it. They're young, they should know.

[Edited 3/5/14 13:07pm]

I've nothing to add. Absolutely fantastic post. Take my applause!

I think a major point is being missed. Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement is always about LIVE AND IN CONCERT. This statement isn't really about producing music in studio/on record because (in that regard) Prince has relied (pioneered) with computers as much as the next person.

-

Prince is asking this: Can you really play, in real time, not just triggering samples and pushing buttons that trigger prerecorded sounds?

-

skywalker said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

databank said: I've nothing to add. Absolutely fantastic post. Take my applause!

I think a major point is being missed. Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement is always about LIVE AND IN CONCERT. This statement isn't really about producing music in studio/on record because (in that regard) Prince has relied (pioneered) with computers as much as the next person.

-

Prince is asking this: Can you really play, in real time, not just triggering samples and pushing buttons that trigger prerecorded sounds?

-

I see what you mean, and he's just been doing guitars and drums in his 3EG shows, but on Arsenio, he had the extra male musician who used computer generated sounds.

poetbear68 said:

skywalker said:

I think a major point is being missed. Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement is always about LIVE AND IN CONCERT. This statement isn't really about producing music in studio/on record because (in that regard) Prince has relied (pioneered) with computers as much as the next person.

-

Prince is asking this: Can you really play, in real time, not just triggering samples and pushing buttons that trigger prerecorded sounds?

-

I see what you mean, and he's just been doing guitars and drums in his 3EG shows, but on Arsenio, he had the extra male musician who used computer generated sounds.

The keyboard? Surely this falls under the "real instrument" category.

skywalker said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

databank said: I've nothing to add. Absolutely fantastic post. Take my applause!

I think a major point is being missed. Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement is always about LIVE AND IN CONCERT. This statement isn't really about producing music in studio/on record because (in that regard) Prince has relied (pioneered) with computers as much as the next person.

-

Prince is asking this: Can you really play, in real time, not just triggering samples and pushing buttons that trigger prerecorded sounds?

-

Well, even that: what's playing on an instrument if not triggering keys or strings or drums to produce a sound that was already there in a way? Some people are really good at triggering buttons live and coming up with a very creative result, admiting of course that they've designed the sounds they launch in the first place, that they have a sense of musicality and that they master their tools perfectly. My point is that computers, drum machines and samplers ARE instruments in their own right. Once again Prince has given numerous examples of it by making the clever choice to use his prerecorded Linn on Forever In Your Life on the SOTT tour instead of relying on Sheila to play the drums, or even more obviously with the hundreds of samples that were used by the NPG between 1991 and 1996. Still it was a major challenge for the keyboards players involved, to launch all these samples at the right time, and I've always applauded how innovative Prince was with that in 94-96. Now yeah, many people who are gods in the studio don't stand the test of live shows: Hercules And Love Affair have realeased 2 of the most brilliant electronic albums of the last decade in 2008 and 2010, but when u check their live performances on YT it's really not so good. But the same can be said about many "traditional" bands that are great in the studio and not so much live: Morcheeba was a major disappointment for me live in 1998, while I totally worshipped (and still do) their studio albums, and some live per4mances by Metronomy that I've seen on YT showed a band that really lacked any kind of energy or real sense of groove, while their 2011 album is one of the best produced and most inspired albums of these last few years: you have a hard time believing it's the same band! So then P should rather oppose artists that can be great in the studio but unable to follow up on stage than to make electronic music bear the weight of all the evil in the world. It's not about "real" vs. "fake", it's about "good" vs. "not so good" and even so, Hercules, Morcheeba and Metronomy still have all my respect because even though they're not so great on stage, they're studio magicians and astounding composers and for creating the precious magic they manage to create in the studio, they still deserve praises. Hell! Kate Bush doesn't even play live at all and still she's a genius! I'd rather have Prince attack the soulless commercialization of prefabricated receipe music for the sake of quick profit by majors than him making a hierarchy between a supposed "real" music by "real" musicians and their supposed "fake" counterparts.

skywalker said:

poetbear68 said:

I see what you mean, and he's just been doing guitars and drums in his 3EG shows, but on Arsenio, he had the extra male musician who used computer generated sounds.

The keyboard? Surely this falls under the "real instrument" category.

What it seems like he's getting at is live musicianship, which to me can only be heard by instruments that can be played without an electrical connection--anything pre-1950s (with the exception of the original electric guitar).

wow, this thread is still running!. OK, having had the huge honour of seeing 3EG live twice in the UK I can safely say that they have developed into an outstanding band & will only get stronger. I do respect Princes statement BUT whether you take it in the contect of what's playing on the radio OR live on stage my original POV remains unchanged...great music is out there now..it always has been & always will be..you don't even have to look too far!

robertgeorgeakabob said:

databank said:

This conservative POV annoys me to hell too.

For conservative classical musicians jazz was junk. For many conservative jazz musicians rock, funk and all was crap. And now guess who's been the rockers' and funkateers' black lambs for 20 years: electronic music and hip-hop (which is, by essence, electronic music).

This is ridiculous. Plenty of well trained jazz musicians play crappy, uninspired elevator jazz while some electronic musicians who hardly ever touched an intrument other than computers, sequencers and samplers have composed extremely creative and complex music. + in terms of skills it's easier to be a bad rock band than to be an extremely good electronic music composer.

Art is not about "how" you do it but about "how good you are at what you do", no matter what is the "what" you do. Music and art are all about being creative, innovative and skilled in one particular domain. Prince of all people should know that. I think conservative Wynton Marsalis wouldn't think much of 1999: my dad who's a jazz and classical afficionado certainly couldn't make the diference between Sign O The Times and the last Ke$ha album! Still it's no secret that 1999 and SOTT were 2 of the most innovative and strongest albums and artistic statements of their time

But maybe the problem, and I've said it numerous times, is Prince's lack of musical culture: it seems he hasn't heard a single record outside of mainstream music played on mainstream radios since the late 80's. And of course by comparison to Prince's days, what you hear on mainstream radios and MTV nowadays is the worst junk the music industry has to feed uneducated consumers with! He that's what he bases his opinion of electronic music on, then sure I can understand all the dis! But that's like 2% of what's really happening in the world of electronic music, the worst 2%! Except for Björk, Prince probably hasn't got a clue of who the great electronic composers of the 90's and 2000's are and of what they did (hell! he hadn't even heard of Tricky in 1997, back when Tricky was the hottest artist in the alternative music world!). Prince is too focused on american mainstream pop, rock and R&B. There's a whole world of musical experimentations and alternative music out there. I wish these gals from 3rdEyeGirl would expose him to some of it. They're young, they should know.

[Edited 3/5/14 13:07pm]

I've nothing to add. Absolutely fantastic post. Take my applause!

Byron said:

TrevorAyer said:

prince career path has taken the RUSH turn .. only musicians who want to hear musicians tune in .. everyone else finds prince music to be rubbish .. except the lil groupies of course .. prince is a real musician and the bass player at very least is great .. however .. prince needs to take the REAL SONGS BY REAL SONGWRITERS approach as his musicianship far outways his ability to contruct a song worthy of a musician of his caliber to perform ..

How does it feel to completely ignore reality?...I tried once but can't seem to do it. Does it require drugs or something?

everyone hates prince so much that during his appearance arsenio's ratings shot right straight up

databank said:

skywalker said:

I think a major point is being missed. Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement is always about LIVE AND IN CONCERT. This statement isn't really about producing music in studio/on record because (in that regard) Prince has relied (pioneered) with computers as much as the next person.

-

Prince is asking this: Can you really play, in real time, not just triggering samples and pushing buttons that trigger prerecorded sounds?

-

Well, even that: what's playing on an instrument if not triggering keys or strings or drums to produce a sound that was already there in a way? Some people are really good at triggering buttons live and coming up with a very creative result, admiting of course that they've designed the sounds they launch in the first place, that they have a sense of musicality and that they master their tools perfectly.

I totally see what you are getting at. Yet, you have to admit that triggering a sample of a guitar solo is less of a skill (and less "live") than playing the guitar solo yourself.

My point is that computers, drum machines and samplers ARE instruments in their own right. Once again Prince has given numerous examples of it by making the clever choice to use his prerecorded Linn on Forever In Your Life on the SOTT tour instead of relying on Sheila to play the drums, or even more obviously with the hundreds of samples that were used by the NPG between 1991 and 1996. Still it was a major challenge for the keyboards players involved, to launch all these samples at the right time, and I've always applauded how innovative Prince was with that in 94-96.

I don't disagree with you on this. Prince himself HAS utilized samples live to great effect. Especially in the NPG era of 1991-1996. Still, the distinction is that Prince doesn't HAVE to rely in samples at all. Some "musicians" are cannot actually play anything without prerecorded samples and triggers.

-

Do I give Prince a free pass on using samples ? Absolutely. The same goes for any muscian that can also play their stuff live/raw/stripped down and sample free. Fact is, I don't always mind if Prince uses samples.

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I have seen him do a song like "When Doves Cry" 3 or 4 different ways. I know he can play that song stripped down with just a piano and his voice. However, I often prefer to hear the linn heavy version that is closer to what it sounds like on the album.

Now yeah, many people who are gods in the studio don't stand the test of live shows: Hercules And Love Affair have realeased 2 of the most brilliant electronic albums of the last decade in 2008 and 2010, but when u check their live performances on YT it's really not so good. But the same can be said about many "traditional" bands that are great in the studio and not so much live: Morcheeba was a major disappointment for me live in 1998, while I totally worshipped (and still do) their studio albums, and some live per4mances by Metronomy that I've seen on YT showed a band that really lacked any kind of energy or real sense of groove, while their 2011 album is one of the best produced and most inspired albums of these last few years: you have a hard time believing it's the same band!

I agree with this. I think your statement cuts to the heart of Prince's "real music by real musicians" statement. It's not even really about computers vs real instruments. It's about "can you really play your instrument live?" Do you shine on stage or does the music suffer? Can you improvise? Is your music prefabricated or does it have guts intact when brought to the stage.

So then P should rather oppose artists that can be great in the studio but unable to follow up on stage than to make electronic music bear the weight of all the evil in the world. It's not about "real" vs. "fake", it's about "good" vs. "not so good" and even so, Hercules, Morcheeba and Metronomy still have all my respect because even though they're not so great on stage, they're studio magicians and astounding composers and for creating the precious magic they manage to create in the studio, they still deserve praises. Hell! Kate Bush doesn't even play live at all and still she's a genius! I'd rather have Prince attack the soulless commercialization of prefabricated receipe music for the sake of quick profit by majors than him making a hierarchy between a supposed "real" music by "real" musicians and their supposed "fake" counterparts.

See, I never thought that Prince's statement were an attack on electronic music at all. Can you find an example of him dismissing/or going after electronic music?

I always thought "real music by real musicians" was a gaunlet thrown down against lip syncing pop stars and (as you said) "souless commericalization of prefabricated receipe music for the sake of quick profit by majors".

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I would be willing to bet that Prince has much more respect for Daft Punk than Justin Timberlake or Justin Bieber.

[Edited 3/8/14 8:26am]