Farfunknugin said:

Solo

^Nope, there are little keyboard flourishes in "Solo". Pretty sure that's P.

TwiliteKid said:

Superconductor said:

This was not meant as a joke. A computer is not a musical instrument. What musical instruments were played on this album?

Guitar, bass and synth?

Doubt there's any guitar or bass on it. Maybe synths.

Superconductor said:

TwiliteKid said:

Superconductor said: Guitar, bass and synth?

Doubt there's any guitar or bass on it. Maybe synths.

Then you clearly haven't listened to the album properly. In fact, there is lots of guitar.

And why should a "computer" not be a musical instrument? It's an instrument you can make music with, so...?

toejam said:

^Nope, there are little keyboard flourishes in "Solo". Pretty sure that's P.

I remember reading in an interview that he actually hired some sort of (Asian?) orchestra arranger to do that part for him, if I'm not mistaken. The guy was a Prince fan and he wasn't even told when the track would be released.

Dave1992 said:

toejam said:

^Nope, there are little keyboard flourishes in "Solo". Pretty sure that's P.

I remember reading in an interview that he actually hired some sort of (Asian?) orchestra arranger to do that part for him, if I'm not mistaken. The guy was a Prince fan and he wasn't even told when the track would be released.

This had been my recollection as well. As I look into the song history again, though, the collaboration was with librettist David Henry Hwang, who did write the lyrics. But Prince performed vocals and music.

[Edited 1/10/14 0:31am]

TwiliteKid said:

joyinrepetition said:

Early on Wendy wasn't as good as she is now 30 years later. Prince helped her a great deal. When Wendy played Alexa de Venus live at First Avenue while Prince was changing clothes, she was awful! Very choppy and unsure of herself compared to Prince's smooth instrumental on the B-side. Why do you think Miko was brought in? 30 years later Wendy is a very good player now i.e. Reflection duet with Prince on Tavis Smiley and Fury at the Brit Awards.

Now Prince has to work on smoothing out Donna Gratis. She's also a little stiff playing and lacks feeling.

Again, we're talking about a pretty simple song here. Even I can play a passable version, and I'm not very good. Alexa de Paris is a whole other ball game.

Right, and like 777-9311 Alexa de Paris could easily have been done over and over and cut and put together.

.

Initial tracking took place on 21 April, 1985 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (the day after Old Friends 4 Sale, Others Here With Us and Tibet, the same day as Life Can Be So Nice, the day before the release of Around The World In A Day and two days before recording Evolsidog). The recording features only Prince, Lisa Coleman (on piano) and Wendy Melvoin (on guitar). Clare Fischer arranged and recorded orchestration for the song at some point in mid-late 1985 at Monterey Sound Studios, Glendale, CA, USA, but Prince preferred the track without orchestration, and chose to use the track without orchestration for the final release.

toejam said:

^I think Prince is always searching for that combination of finding musicians who will be his "yes men/women", but at the same time bring something fresh to the table. This is why he likes young musicians I think. They're naive and hungry enough to do whatever he says, but at the same time can hip him to a different perspective. Most of his musos only last in the band for two or three tours.

I think we sometimes over-estimate the input that his band members actually have - especially Wendy & Lisa (not that they didn't have an influence, of course)

.

[Edited 1/9/14 14:43pm]

I don't think I'm over-estimating, I think Prince just had closer working relationships with women vs men. No one is going to say that Mico had the same writing/working/personal relationship he had with Wendy. I mean Lisa and at 1 point Lisa & Wendy lived with Prince, did laundry together, Prince dating Wendy's twin sister. Lisa was with Prince since 1980-1986

Let's not under-estimate it either.

Also from the other band members from Dr Fink, Bobby Z, to Alan Leeds & Eric Leeds, they have highlighted the working/personal connection Prince had with Lisa & Wendy in many interviews.

The difference with many of them pre-1990s vs those after, is that most that followed did have a Yes Man working relationship. I also think the newness of his career even into the late 80s and the newness of his PR fame Prince was in a different Place.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I thought it was Prince and Wendy on guitar, Lisa Coleman on piano

same with 4 the Tears In Your Eyes

Thought so too. Depends on the way it was recorded, I guess. If it was recorded "live", I think chances are that it is Prince playing the guitar, as Wendy woud have struggled to play and sing at the same time with the precision needed for a studio recording.

I would think it would be harder to sing and play live vs in a studio

even Prince did retakes and cutting and piecing together of his own guitar solos. Prince didn't jump in the studio and do 777-9311 or Alexa de Paris in 1 2 or 3 takes.

Dez Dickerson Little Red Corvette solo was put together as well.

By the 2nd half of the PR tour Wendy handled the LRC solo very well live

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

Thought so too. Depends on the way it was recorded, I guess. If it was recorded "live", I think chances are that it is Prince playing the guitar, as Wendy woud have struggled to play and sing at the same time with the precision needed for a studio recording.

I would think it would be harder to sing and play live vs in a studio

even Prince did retakes and cutting and piecing together of his own guitar solos. Prince didn't jump in the studio and do 777-9311 or Alexa de Paris in 1 2 or 3 takes.

Dez Dickerson Little Red Corvette solo was put together as well.

By the 2nd half of the PR tour Wendy handled the LRC solo very well live

Wendy's LRC wasn't that good during Purple Rain Tours. It was a little rough. As for the relationship, Wendy, Lisa and Prince had great synergy without a doubt. I was just stating that as an overall player, Miko was superior to Wendy, but not idea wise. The Lovesexy/SOTT was Prince's best band as far as musicians, but The Revolution(Dez, Andre and Gail included) had a certain rawness and urgency that made all the albums from 1978 to 86 so fantastic!

[Edited 1/10/14 7:26am]

joyinrepetition said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I would think it would be harder to sing and play live vs in a studio

even Prince did retakes and cutting and piecing together of his own guitar solos. Prince didn't jump in the studio and do 777-9311 or Alexa de Paris in 1 2 or 3 takes.

Dez Dickerson Little Red Corvette solo was put together as well.

By the 2nd half of the PR tour Wendy handled the LRC solo very well live

Wendy's LRC wasn't that good during Purple Rain Tours. It was a little rough. As for the relationship, Wendy, Lisa and Prince had great synergy without a doubt. I was just stating that as an overall player, Miko was superior to Wendy, but not idea wise. The Lovesexy/SOTT was Prince's best band as far as musicians, but The Revolution(Dez, Andre and Gail included) had a certain rawness and urgency that made all the albums from 1978 to 86 so fantastic!

[Edited 1/10/14 7:26am]

I thought by the time they did the live Syracuse show it was good. I'm not saying it was the best of course. Yeah and this being her first tour/live ever. She gets a pass.

I love the 1979-1989 bands

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

Thought so too. Depends on the way it was recorded, I guess. If it was recorded "live", I think chances are that it is Prince playing the guitar, as Wendy woud have struggled to play and sing at the same time with the precision needed for a studio recording.

I would think it would be harder to sing and play live vs in a studio

even Prince did retakes and cutting and piecing together of his own guitar solos. Prince didn't jump in the studio and do 777-9311 or Alexa de Paris in 1 2 or 3 takes.

Dez Dickerson Little Red Corvette solo was put together as well.

By the 2nd half of the PR tour Wendy handled the LRC solo very well live

Don't think so. Live it's ok to make a few mistakes. On a record you have to get it right. Of course you get more than one attempt in the studio, but if recorded live Wendy would have failed every time. Wendy is (was?) not a studio musician, she had other strenghts.

[Edited 1/10/14 7:57am]

TwiliteKid said:

Superconductor said:

This was not meant as a joke. A computer is not a musical instrument. What musical instruments were played on this album?

Guitar, bass and synth?

.

.

Yes, there's guitar, bass, synth, keys, and a drum machine is a percussion instrument.

.

[Edited 1/10/14 8:36am]

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I would think it would be harder to sing and play live vs in a studio

even Prince did retakes and cutting and piecing together of his own guitar solos. Prince didn't jump in the studio and do 777-9311 or Alexa de Paris in 1 2 or 3 takes.

Dez Dickerson Little Red Corvette solo was put together as well.

By the 2nd half of the PR tour Wendy handled the LRC solo very well live

Don't think so. Live it's ok to make a few mistakes. On a record you have to get it right. Of course you get more than one attempt in the studio, but if recorded live Wendy would have failed every time. Wendy is (was?) not a studio musician, she had other strenghts.

[Edited 1/10/14 7:57am]

actually she was a studio musician, still is...

.

It's still harder to play live, and people don't forgive so easily

.

studio, it's going to be done until it's done right. And I haven't heard anything she's done studio that was weak. Failed every time? seriously Studio and reheasals is where you get it right

.

I mean she plays that opening on Purple Rain and Computer Blue, why are we making it like playing Sometimes It Snows In April as some difficult piece, played Kiss Accoustic solo piece live just like the album, Controversy and some other songs 2 the place Prince didn't look for another replacement for Dez... go figure...

.

And I've heard their albums after 1987 and she renders the music very good, the guitar work/solo on Waterfalls is very good.

.

She also plays drums and bass

But I'll leave it alone. Different ears

Others have said it: Power Fantastic, Large Room With No Lights, I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm a Star

any other studio non-released we probably won't know

Merci 4 the Speed of a Mad Clown in Summer, Too Sexy, Save the People I believe Prince let Sheila And the band loose on those

Superconductor said:

novabrkr said:

I suppose this was meant to be funny. However, let's just make it clear to the rest of the orgers that the album isn't "all computer generated".

This was not meant as a joke. A computer is not a musical instrument. What musical instruments were played on this album?

I'm sorry, but your comments prove that you don't understand at all what you are talking about. I refuse to get into such a pointless debate.

[Edited 1/10/14 10:58am]

novabrkr said:

Dave1992 said:

Superconductor said:

Dave1992 said:

Then you clearly haven't listened to the album properly. In fact, there is lots of guitar.

And why should a "computer" not be a musical instrument? It's an instrument you can make music with, so...?

I have listened to the album, I will relisten. I couldn't hear any guitar, I could hear what some refer to as drum machine and synths and which to me sound computer generated. This is my perception and apparently there is only one way to perceive this music, and mine isn't valid. I don't care. Why is a computer not an instrument? Maybe it is, maybe not. That depends on your perspective. From my perspective, a computer is only an "instrument" if it has software on it that can be used to program to generate music. A computer can be used for other things too. However, a guitar or a trumpet or a piano can only be used to make music. Hence to me the latter are musical instruments, the former is a computer. And if you believe a computer is an instrument then I am fine with that. It just means that we interpret the OP's question differently.

I get your theory, but a guitar, an analog synth and a piano are only made up of parts that have not much to do with music making. In my opinion, the purpose and the function makes a musical instrument. There are African tribes who use their wooden cooking instruments as a means to create fantastic beats with after they have eaten. You have to set up your computer, shape it in a certain way and invest in the right software and hardware (as you'd have to take a block of wood to shape it to a guitar) in order to make music.

So, if you want to make music and an object around you successfully transforms your ideas into music, then it's a musical instrument. When the burglar comes in and I smash his head with my old guitar, the musical instrument turns into a weapon, for instance!

I think this theory is a bit more consistant.

Superconductor said:

novabrkr said:

I'm sorry, but your comments prove that you don't understand at all what you are talking about. I refuse to get into such a pointless debate.

[Edited 1/10/14 10:58am]

Man, you are arrogant! Maybe someone else can respond to my genuine question.

The arrogant person in this case is you. You are making very dismissive comments on something based on your very limited understanding on the subject matter.

Okay, I'll give you something of an answer:

There are at least guitar and keyboards parts on the MPLSound record. If there's any bass guitar on it is debatable, but there are at least bass parts done with keyboards. Recording those parts to a computer and using the computer for further sound manipulation does not mean that those instruments somehow lose their status as "instruments" as a result. Even a basic MIDI keyboard that is used to trigger sounds on software that's running on a computer is just as much a musical instrument as the digital pianos that Prince has been playing live onstage since the 1980s.

These days, triggering those sounds from a computer makes more sense than using a hardware keyboard due to computers not having as severe memory limitations. For example, computer programs can offer far more realistic sample-based emulations of acoustic pianos than what hardware digital pianos can offer. However, those sounds are triggered from a normal piano-style keyboard and saying that you're not using an "instrument" when a computer is involved in the sound generation process is complete nonsense. There also many synthesizers that exist in hardware and software form (such as the Access Virus).

There seems to be indeed more quantization of notes played on keyboards involved on MPLSound than on most other Prince's records. I agree that it does result in a more "computerized" overall sound. Prince has also used the "copy pasting" method with some parts more than he usually does, which makes the record at parts sound a bit awkward (I'm no fan of the record myself in overall). However, we don't even really know what the synthesizers he used on the record were. We don't know to what degree he used hardware analog, hardware digital or software digital synths. My guess is that he's mainly used the same units in the studio as he's used live.

In overall, the MPLSound record might involve his heaviest use of computer based recording systems so far, but it's got him playing keyboards and guitars on it in any case.

As for your "interpretation" of the original question: there are no other valid interpretations than what treat the subject matter in its original context and trying to derail the discussion just because you desire to be a smartass yourself is childish. Please don't post such negative comments when your understanding of the issue is so rudimentary.

novabrkr said:

Superconductor said:

novabrkr said: Man, you are arrogant! Maybe someone else can respond to my genuine question.

The arrogant person in this case is you. You are making very dismissive comments on something based on your very limited understanding on the subject matter.

Okay, I'll give you something of an answer:

There are at least guitar and keyboards parts on the MPLSound record. If there's any bass guitar on it is debatable, but there are at least bass parts done with keyboards. Recording those parts to a computer and using the computer for further sound manipulation does not mean that those instruments somehow lose their status as "instruments" as a result. Even a basic MIDI keyboard that is used to trigger sounds on software that's running on a computer is just as much a musical instrument as the digital pianos that Prince has been playing live onstage since the 1980s.

These days, triggering those sounds from a computer makes more sense than using a hardware keyboard due to computers not having as severe memory limitations. For example, computer programs can offer far more realistic sample-based emulations of acoustic pianos than what hardware digital pianos can offer. However, those sounds are triggered from a normal piano-style keyboard and saying that you're not using an "instrument" when a computer is involved in the sound generation process is complete nonsense. There also many synthesizers that exist in hardware and software form (such as the Access Virus).

There seems to be indeed more quantization of notes played on keyboards involved on MPLSound than on most other Prince's records. I agree that it does result in a more "computerized" overall sound. Prince has also used the "copy pasting" method with some parts more than he usually does, which makes the record at parts sound a bit awkward (I'm no fan of the record myself in overall). However, we don't even really know what the synthesizers he used on the record were. We don't know to what degree he used hardware analog, hardware digital or software digital synths. My guess is that he's mainly used the same units in the studio as he's used live.

In overall, the MPLSound record might involve his heaviest use of computer based recording systems so far, but it's got him playing keyboards and guitars on it in any case.

As for your "interpretation" of the original question: there are no other valid interpretations than what treat the subject matter in its original context and trying to derail the discussion just because you desire to be a smartass yourself is childish. Please don't post such negative comments when your understanding of the issue is so rudimentary.

Thanks for your comments on MPLSound. A shame though that you can't seem to help yourself and continue to insult me. Your comments about me prove how arrogant and rude you are.

joyinrepetition said:

steakfinger said:

joyinrepetition said:

Prince didn't help Wendy, genius, her own practice and discipline did. She would've played in groups or done studio work even if the Revolution gig hadn't happened

Not sure about that

and as I understand it both Wendy and Lisa taught Prince just as much as he taught them.

As a muscian? Have you heard early live recordings with Wendy? She could hardly play. Prince was on a completely different level.

As for Donna, she's excellent. She plays very well and technically she can do things Prince cannot. Don't mistake sloppy execution for emotion.

What exactely? She is more sloppy than Prince and she has a problem with her timing. Not saying she is bad though, she is certainly better than Wendy was at the beginning, but she is not on Princes level. Come on, Steakfinger. You play the guitar. Surely you must hear that.

paulludvig said:

steakfinger said:

joyinrepetition said:

As for Donna, she's excellent. She plays very well and technically she can do things Prince cannot. Don't mistake sloppy execution for emotion.

What exactely? She is more sloppy than Prince and she has a problem with her timing. Not saying she is bad though, she is certainly better than Wendy was at the beginning, but she is not on Princes level. Come on, Steakfinger. You play the guitar. Surely you must hear that.

Exactly! Paulludvig. Took the words right out of my mouth!

Dave1992 said:

skywalker said: