Where do you feel Prince would be career wise now had he not have had his falling out with WB? I wonder how the years would have played out continuing with "Prince" and keeping with annual releases of fresh albums with (presumably) themed tours.

Perhaps we would have seen at least another 'best of' package, that may have also contained some unknown classics that never were due to the change in direction. Sure, there would be much we miss by taking a different path, however I am curious as to what phase his carrer would be in today and what material would have been created and released under the previously structured format his career was built on with Warner Bros?

there is simply no way of knowing. it could have been better, it could have been worse.

/

i think that if prince had 'lost' his battle with warners and they had worked out a way to

release "the gold experience" and "come" in some way, we wouldn't have had albums

like "exodus" and "emancipation" for a start. he probably wouldn't have made the other

albums he released after, simply because he would have been on another path. a few

of the songs he dug from the vault for all his post 95 releases might still have been on

other albums released under warners.

/

it's a parralel universe, really. knowing that he only had 1 album each 15 months or so

to fill with new material, the albums might have been more structured and well, better,

but who can say. prince's music is so polarising these days. we probably would have

been bitching about his releases just as much as we do today. you can bet there would

be lots of threads going "what if he had left warners in 95 and was a free agent, would

his music be better now? would we have had more music?"

/

the only thing that would have really happened is that we would now have a lot of his

post 95 material still in stores, in print. there would have been singles, but i think that

bsides would be just as scant as they are today, given that singles are released now on

itunes without bsides almost all of the time by other artists. his catalogue would still be

in print, i guess is what i'm trying to say and it's likely that we would have gotten some

remasters now, with or without outtakes simply because that would have been easier

to accomplish if the relationship with warners was still good.

/

releasing remasters would probably have slowed down the release of new music even

more. so i think it's fair to think that if he'd stuck with warners we wouldn't have had

as much music from prince post 95 as we did. i'm still glad we got all that material even

if it isn't all as good as his 80s stuff, i still enjoy it. but i would have loved remasters of

his classic albums, especially with outtakes and bsides included. so it's a double edged

sword.

I agree with the above: it's impossible to say. I think in terms of musical directions and album contenst it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference: except for very few occasions WB knew better than to be involved in P's artistic choices and contrarly to what many seem to believe they certainly had nothing to do with P's music being "better" back then than it is now. So I'd say more or less as much music and more or less the same music.

Apart from that it's impossible to tell...

Less is more, although he released an album almost every year under WB, I think it would be a lot more structured. There wouldn´t be a 3 disc Emancipation, but probably just one disc, which would be much better.

Musicology, 3121, those albums sound like WB eras.

There would be a professional website with an adress people would remember.

I don´t think Prince his search for freedom did any good to his output, but he´s probably much happier himself now.

nextedition said:

Less is more, although he released an album almost every year under WB, I think it would be a lot more structured. There wouldn´t be a 3 disc Emancipation, but probably just one disc, which would be much better.

Musicology, 3121, those albums sound like WB eras.

There would be a professional website with an adress people would remember.

I don´t think Prince his search for freedom did any good to his output, but he´s probably much happier himself now.

I used to be on prince side when it comes to wb but these days I feel wb gave him the opportunity to work with a lot of great musicians, gave him a lot of outlets, helped with promo and media, it was just an all around better position for prince to be in and make great music .. sure now I guess he makes more money on his crappy music but the music is crappy the musicians are all boring and you cant even find his music on youtube much less talk about the purple pimple .. on the other hand .. wb clearly spoiled the child and he is still way too spoiled to put out credible music again .. one thing is true tho .. we would probably have remasters by now with all the trimmings, live shows, b sides, out takes, if he had stayed with wb .. the reissues from other bands have been pretty packed and amazing .. prince be chasing paper .. nothing more .. wb would have eased him into a muture career i would hope .. prince still acting like hes tommy lee in a highschool metal band .. oh well

Probably much the same musically, but we probably would've had some sort of first round of anniversary re-releases/remasters by now.

TrevorAyer said:

I used to be on prince side when it comes to wb but these days I feel wb gave him the opportunity to work with a lot of great musicians, gave him a lot of outlets, helped with promo and media, it was just an all around better position for prince to be in and make great music .. sure now I guess he makes more money on his crappy music but the music is crappy the musicians are all boring and you cant even find his music on youtube much less talk about the purple pimple .. on the other hand .. wb clearly spoiled the child and he is still way too spoiled to put out credible music again .. one thing is true tho .. we would probably have remasters by now with all the trimmings, live shows, b sides, out takes, if he had stayed with wb .. the reissues from other bands have been pretty packed and amazing .. prince be chasing paper .. nothing more .. wb would have eased him into a muture career i would hope .. prince still acting like hes tommy lee in a highschool metal band .. oh well

Tevin Campbell?

it might of been better than what we've ended up with. but who will ever know?

This is a great question. I honestly don't know if Prince would still be on the charts, having hit singles and relevant to causual music listeners. However, I always wondered if WB would have allowed Prince to release the "Rainbow Children" album. That album is heavy musically, lyrically and thematically, and the higher ups at WB, I'm sure would be less tolerant of ambitious projects like that. Only way, I think they would release it, is if it was Prince's last album for Warner's and they'll release it to end the business relationship.

If he was still with WB, things would be alot more "organized" He would still be doing the one-album-a-year thing,and he would be getting the proper promotion and marketing.One other benefit: the remasters would probably happen,as long as he and Warners remained on good terms.

bashraka said:

This is a great question. I honestly don't know if Prince would still be on the charts, having hit singles and relevant to causual music listeners. However, I always wondered if WB would have allowed Prince to release the "Rainbow Children" album. That album is heavy musically, lyrically and thematically, and the higher ups at WB, I'm sure would be less tolerant of ambitious projects like that. Only way, I think they would release it, is if it was Prince's last album for Warner's and they'll release it to end the business relationship.

Thing is man who the fuck are these people to tell a musician he can or can't release a record anyway?! Fuck them! Prince was right to leave!

Most major labels have an A&R person to monitor the songs by a signed artist and to protect their investment. That's a fact. During the 70's and 80's, The WB A&R person was heavily involved with his releases. If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment.

*

Prince working such an A&R person now would have bad results, given his huge ego and his way of the recording process.

That said, towards the end of his tenure at WB, Prince was becoming a very difficult artist (writing Slave on his face), releasing Chaos And Disorder, The Vault, etc...what seemed out of spite, due to the restrictions placed on him by a major label. These were throwaway projects just to fulfill his contract.

*

He made promises to his fams after being dismissed from WB, saying he was free and he could record what he wanted, when he wanted.....with lackluster results, beginning with Emancipation.

*

My point is, maybe it helps to have another set of ears to guide that artist to make a hit or quality record. Prince would never agree to that and we have the results of his one sidedness.

G3000 said:

Most major labels have an A&R person to monitor the songs by a signed artist and to protect their investment. That's a fact. During the 70's and 80's, The WB A&R person was heavily involved with his releases. If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment.

*

Prince working such an A&R person now would have bad results, given his huge ego and his way of the recording process.

That said, towards the end of his tenure at WB, Prince was becoming a very difficult artist (writing Slave on his face), releasing Chaos And Disorder, The Vault, etc...what seemed out of spite, due to the restrictions placed on him by a major label. These were throwaway projects just to fulfill his contract.

*

He made promises to his fams after being dismissed from WB, saying he was free and he could record what he wanted, when he wanted.....with lackluster results, beginning with Emancipation.

*

My point is, maybe it helps to have another set of ears to guide that artist to make a hit or quality record. Prince would never agree to that and we have the results of his one sidedness.

Great post! Sums it up perfectly. I think there´s much more to it than just staying with WB or leaving them, and as you mentioned in your post, people like Lenny Waronker and Mo Ostin played a huge part in Prince´s successful WB years, and both were , as far as I know, already gone during his battle with WB or they were just about to leave WB. Without them, the whole chemistry or dynamics between him and WB changed drastically.

I´d also add the late Steve Fargnoli and Alan Leeds to that list of people who were immensely important during those years, despite the differences they often had.

*

By the way, I think the tension between Prince and WB goes way back to the late 80s. We do know about the problems he had with them when he wanted to release the original Crystal Ball album or the Dream Factory album but it seems there was much more tension after that because I remember an old Ice-T interview that Ice gave in 1989 where he mentioned Prince´s trouble with WB. He compared the music industry to the pimping business and called Prince "...their biggest, most successful bitch."

G3000 said:

Most major labels have an A&R person to monitor the songs by a signed artist and to protect their investment. That's a fact. During the 70's and 80's, The WB A&R person was heavily involved with his releases. If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment.

*

Prince working such an A&R person now would have bad results, given his huge ego and his way of the recording process.

That said, towards the end of his tenure at WB, Prince was becoming a very difficult artist (writing Slave on his face), releasing Chaos And Disorder, The Vault, etc...what seemed out of spite, due to the restrictions placed on him by a major label. These were throwaway projects just to fulfill his contract.

*

He made promises to his fams after being dismissed from WB, saying he was free and he could record what he wanted, when he wanted.....with lackluster results, beginning with Emancipation.

*

My point is, maybe it helps to have another set of ears to guide that artist to make a hit or quality record. Prince would never agree to that and we have the results of his one sidedness.

"If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment. " -> That's a lie, pure and simple!

What u people don't understand is that WB had no influence whatsoever on Prince's music when he was with them! You speak as if WB had guys in the studio behind Prince's ass to tell him what was good and what was bad! Have u ever read a single book about Prince?

He recorded, compiled and delivered the records on his own, WB released them as they were, period.

A few exception are known to have happened:

- They forced Tommy Vicari on P for the recording of the first album, which led to nothing since P didn't give a fuck about Vicari's opinion.

- After hearing what would become 1999, WB said it lacked an accessible pop song, which led P to record and add 1999 (the song). (a good move)

- WB declined to release Crystal Ball, which led to it becoming SOTT (stupidest decision in the history of music!).

- WB suggested that Prince replace Horny Pöny with Gett Off, which he did. (a good move, again)

And that's it. Period. They had a say in the content of a few late side-projects too (Pandemonium, May 19 1992, Carmen Electra and the refusal to release Gold Nigga, which was one of the starting points of the P/WB feud) but that was it. Prince recorded the shit, gave them the shit to release and they just released the shit as it was: they wouldn't even get the chance to hear anything before a finished album would be delivered. + I'd like to remind u that they fought against releasing both When Doves Cry and Kiss as singles because the songs were too "weird" and "sounded like demos", so they were not always so wise. They also (more wisely) disapproved many other things back then: the release of IIWYG as a single, the release of The Black Album and later on Lovesexy instead of more promo for SOTT, the choice of Sexy MF and MNIP as singles for the 92 album, etc., but they complied with everything just the same because in the end P was almost always having the last word.

U can't say that WB made the music. WB had nothing to do with the music!

[Edited 12/18/13 12:07pm]

This is a great thread. This is one of the few [Prince] threads that I've enjoyed reading the comments, & not laughing my ass off out of shame.



I've often wondered the same thing myself. Where would Prince's career be? In many ways, I think it was better for him to leave, but I also think he should have stopped recording, & performing for quite a while too. I've often thought that Prince tarnished his legacy trying to prove that he could do it by himself. Emancipation, & [virtually] everything that followed pales in comparison to his 80's stuff. I highly doubt that WB was/is all that disappointed that he left. If Prince would have taken 5 year break after the WB fiasco; no music, & no tours, I think that would have really been beneficial to him in the long run. When you think of all of the crap he came/comes out with [side projects included ], it was all energy burnt on bullshit.



As much as you all don't want to admit it, Prince needs to stop. No touring. No recording. No nothing. He's been burned out for a good decade & a half....

^^^^^databank

I'll take your point, but I'll raise you this.

Back in the day, WB had a very healthy roster of A list artists. A lot of artists and bands were very competitive, which lead to a lot a great music to come out of that era. WB had a top notch A&R staff and house producers like Arif Mardin, Lenny Waronker, Russ Titleman, to name a few. Prince wanted to produce himself, but I'm sure he had to be a little intimidated by these guys.

*

Some of us know what went on behind closed doors, but at the least WB challenged Prince and he delivered. He had something to prove for the most part they allowed him creative freedom, but to a point.

*

Even Prince said, "The only competition is, well me in the past." (Don't Play Me)

*

Did Prince's music suffer because he was no longer challenged??

*

This is just my opinion and observation.

KoolEaze said:

G3000 said:

Most major labels have an A&R person to monitor the songs by a signed artist and to protect their investment. That's a fact. During the 70's and 80's, The WB A&R person was heavily involved with his releases. If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment.

*

Prince working such an A&R person now would have bad results, given his huge ego and his way of the recording process.

That said, towards the end of his tenure at WB, Prince was becoming a very difficult artist (writing Slave on his face), releasing Chaos And Disorder, The Vault, etc...what seemed out of spite, due to the restrictions placed on him by a major label. These were throwaway projects just to fulfill his contract.

*

He made promises to his fams after being dismissed from WB, saying he was free and he could record what he wanted, when he wanted.....with lackluster results, beginning with Emancipation.

*

My point is, maybe it helps to have another set of ears to guide that artist to make a hit or quality record. Prince would never agree to that and we have the results of his one sidedness.

Great post! Sums it up perfectly. I think there´s much more to it than just staying with WB or leaving them, and as you mentioned in your post, people like Lenny Waronker and Mo Ostin played a huge part in Prince´s successful WB years, and both were , as far as I know, already gone during his battle with WB or they were just about to leave WB. Without them, the whole chemistry or dynamics between him and WB changed drastically.

I´d also add the late Steve Fargnoli and Alan Leeds to that list of people who were immensely important during those years, despite the differences they often had.

*

By the way, I think the tension between Prince and WB goes way back to the late 80s. We do know about the problems he had with them when he wanted to release the original Crystal Ball album or the Dream Factory album but it seems there was much more tension after that because I remember an old Ice-T interview that Ice gave in 1989 where he mentioned Prince´s trouble with WB. He compared the music industry to the pimping business and called Prince "...their biggest, most successful bitch."

Thank U! and I agree with your comments.

G3000 said:

^^^^^databank

I'll take your point, but I'll raise you this.

Back in the day, WB had a very healthy roster of A list artists. A lot of artists and bands were very competitive, which lead to a lot a great music to come out of that era. WB had a top notch A&R staff and house producers like Arif Mardin, Lenny Waronker, Russ Titleman, to name a few. Prince wanted to produce himself, but I'm sure he had to be a little intimidated by these guys.

*

Some of us know what went on behind closed doors, but at the least WB challenged Prince and he delivered. He had something to prove for the most part they allowed him creative freedom, but to a point.

*

Even Prince said, "The only competition is, well me in the past." (Don't Play Me)

*

Did Prince's music suffer because he was no longer challenged??

*

This is just my opinion and observation.

When u put it that way then it's a whole other story. U make a valid point here. Then IDK.

databank said:

G3000 said:

Most major labels have an A&R person to monitor the songs by a signed artist and to protect their investment. That's a fact. During the 70's and 80's, The WB A&R person was heavily involved with his releases. If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment.

*

Prince working such an A&R person now would have bad results, given his huge ego and his way of the recording process.

That said, towards the end of his tenure at WB, Prince was becoming a very difficult artist (writing Slave on his face), releasing Chaos And Disorder, The Vault, etc...what seemed out of spite, due to the restrictions placed on him by a major label. These were throwaway projects just to fulfill his contract.

*

He made promises to his fams after being dismissed from WB, saying he was free and he could record what he wanted, when he wanted.....with lackluster results, beginning with Emancipation.

*

My point is, maybe it helps to have another set of ears to guide that artist to make a hit or quality record. Prince would never agree to that and we have the results of his one sidedness.

"If not the A&R person, Mo Ostin and his crack WB team had some sort of influence on Prince's music, again to protect their investment. " -> That's a lie, pure and simple!

What u people don't understand is that WB had no influence whatsoever on Prince's music when he was with them! You speak as if WB had guys in the studio behind Prince's ass to tell him what was good and what was bad! Have u ever read a single book about Prince?

He recorded, compiled and delivered the records on his own, WB released them as they were, period.

A few exception are known to have happened:

- They forced Tommy Vicari on P for the recording of the first album, which led to nothing since P didn't give a fuck about Vicari's opinion.

- After hearing what would become 1999, WB said it lacked an accessible pop song, which led P to record and add 1999 (the song). (a good move)

- WB declined to release Crystal Ball, which led to it becoming SOTT (stupidest decision in the history of music!).

- WB suggested that Prince replace Horny Pöny with Gett Off, which he did. (a good move, again)

And that's it. Period. They had a say in the content of a few late side-projects too (Pandemonium, May 19 1992, Carmen Electra and the refusal to release Gold Nigga, which was one of the starting points of the P/WB feud) but that was it. Prince recorded the shit, gave them the shit to release and they just released the shit as it was: they wouldn't even get the chance to hear anything before a finished album would be delivered. + I'd like to remind u that they fought against releasing both When Doves Cry and Kiss as singles because the songs were too "weird" and "sounded like demos", so they were not always so wise. They also (more wisely) disapproved many other things back then: the release of IIWYG as a single, the release of The Black Album and later on Lovesexy instead of more promo for SOTT, the choice of Sexy MF and MNIP as singles for the 92 album, etc., but they complied with everything just the same because in the end P was almost always having the last word.

U can't say that WB made the music. WB had nothing to do with the music!

[Edited 12/18/13 12:07pm]

Agreed, LA Reid has stated that mo Ostin never, ever, commented to Prince about his music...He was there to help realize a vision but left the music up to and only prince..

mo ostin may not have commented on prince music but wb afforded all the band members and side bands prince was working with and they certainly commented on the music if not actually writing it (often uncredited) .. wb allowed prince to keep those people around till he decided (mistakenly) that he didn't need them around anymore

G3000 said:

^^^^^databank

I'll take your point, but I'll raise you this.

Back in the day, WB had a very healthy roster of A list artists. A lot of artists and bands were very competitive, which lead to a lot a great music to come out of that era. WB had a top notch A&R staff and house producers like Arif Mardin, Lenny Waronker, Russ Titleman, to name a few. Prince wanted to produce himself, but I'm sure he had to be a little intimidated by these guys.

*

Some of us know what went on behind closed doors, but at the least WB challenged Prince and he delivered. He had something to prove for the most part they allowed him creative freedom, but to a point.

*

Even Prince said, "The only competition is, well me in the past." (Don't Play Me)

*

Did Prince's music suffer because he was no longer challenged??

*

This is just my opinion and observation.

And a concise opinion and great observation at that.

I often look at early 90s as a lost opportunity for both sides. Had Wb found a way to harness Prince's anger by allowing him to release music, who knows what would have happened. Delaying The Gold Experience was a huge mistake though I don't really know who's at fault.

WB couldn't have predicted the rise of the Internet but I think they could have allowed Prince to be the vanguard for the label moving to Internet marketing.

But that only takes us up to the 90s. Who knows what would have happened today?

he was electric back then.. maybe, Prince should have stayed with WB.

Prince with Warner Bros. = = =

Prince with EMI, Arista, Columbia, Sony, Universal, (etc.?) =


Free the music..? What happened...? The quality went away...?

Great in concert I agree, yes, and still great tracks here and there, but great albums.. no, unfortunately.

Imho.

[Edited 12/19/13 8:18am]

You must also consider the many changing of the guards at WB over the last 25 years. Folks working and running the label was probably born in 1980-84.

*

They may have a lot of respect the Prince and his legacy, but they are looking for the next Drake, Gaga, Beyonce, Bruno, etc.

*

The game has totally changed and the business model is completely different. It's all about Stocks and Marketshare. This was Prince's issue from the start, along with a lot of other creative artists. Once the bean counters took over the industry, it was the beginning of the end.

*

Looking at the AMA's this year, no one over the age 25 won an award! How old is JT!? He may be the patriarch of Pop music today.

*

Prince is not ready to retire and I respect him for that.

Off topic,

Was prince ever given an industry title? I don't remember any that stuck like these...not that he needs one.

*

*James Brown - The Godfather Of Soul

*Aretha - The Queen Of Soul

*MJ - The King Of Pop

*Elvis & Little Richard tie for the King of Rock N Roll.

*

[Edited 12/19/13 8:33am]

G3000 said:

You must also consider the many changing of the guards at WB over the last 25 years. Folks working and running the label was probably born in 1980-84.

*

They may have a lot of respect the Prince and his legacy, but they are looking for the next Drake, Gaga, Beyonce, Bruno, etc.

*

The game has totally changed and the business model is completely different. It's all about Stocks and Marketshare. This was Prince's issue from the start, along with a lot of other creative artists. Once the bean counters took over the industry, it was the beginning of the end.

*

Looking at the AMA's this year, no one over the age 25 won an award! How old is JT!? He may be the patriarch of Pop music today.

*

Prince is not ready to retire and I respect him for that.

Off topic,

Was prince ever given an industry title? I don't remember any that stuck like these...not that he needs one.

*

*James Brown - The Godfather Of Soul

*Aretha - The Queen Of Soul

*MJ - The King Of Pop

*Elvis & Little Richard tie for the King of Rock N Roll.

*

[Edited 12/19/13 8:33am]

I thought for a while it was His Royal Badness.

In France journalists used to call him "the purple dwarf"

who does WB have now that is relevant ; linkin park..lyor Cohen and Kevin lIles did absolutely nothing to enhance ..if you thought he was unhappy back in th e90's i could only imaginme how bas it would have been today